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Therese Law Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.22 10:44:00 - [1] im looking for some help to explain what is going to be new on eve-bank. Quote: Checking works out to 1.5% per month and Savings works out to 3% per month. Compounded of course. Please be advised that savings account have been disabled and will be replaced with our upcoming bonds system which will boast far more investment options with rates that can reach and exceed savings accounts also allowing almost unlimited deposit amounts. this got my attention. im not sure what it means and what to expect and how i need to change. i have had max limit of isk in saving account (3bil) just ticking the last year. im not much into trading and keeping up to date and i dont see myself being very good at it either. so now i need some advice on how to place my isk as the interest rate apparently are disabled?? -- ♫♪ ♥ ♫♪
Lady Valory Caldari Caldari Strike Force PuPPet MasTers	Posted - 2009.02.22 11:14:00 - [2] TBH sounds like the first step in a ponzi scheme... 1) NEW OPPORTUNITY! 2) BETTER RATE OF RETURN! 3) INVEST ALL YOU WANT--NO LIMIT! With this they can now start to pay the rate of return to the first wave of new investors with the isk deposited from the new wave... Anyway, I know they are supposed to be legit, etc, so I don't mean any offense...
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.22 11:18:00 - [3] Originally by: Therese Law im looking for some help to explain what is going to be new on eve-bank. Quote: Checking works out to 1.5% per month and Savings works out to 3% per month. Compounded of course. Please be advised that savings account have been disabled and will be replaced with our upcoming bonds system which will boast far more investment options with rates that can reach and exceed savings accounts also allowing almost unlimited deposit amounts. this got my attention. im not sure what it means and what to expect and how i need to change. i have had max limit of isk in saving account (3bil) just ticking the last year. im not much into trading and keeping up to date and i dont see myself being very good at it either. so now i need some advice on how to place my isk as the interest rate apparently are disabled?? The creation of NEW savings accounts was disabled. Existing savings accounts work just as well as they used to. We are very very very against changing the terms of our services. The Bonds are just a better way for us to manage our liquidity and smooth out some of the volatility we sometimes see in our cashflow. Bonds are in addition to existing accounts once the exchange launches. EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.22 11:22:00 - [4] Originally by: Lady Valory TBH sounds like the first step in a ponzi scheme... 1) NEW OPPORTUNITY! 2) BETTER RATE OF RETURN! 3) INVEST ALL YOU WANT--NO LIMIT! With this they can now start to pay the rate of return to the first wave of new investors with the isk deposited from the new wave... Anyway, I know they are supposed to be legit, etc, so I don't mean any offense... That quote is nearly a year old. And everyone is free to withdraw their money whenever they like. Also, 1) Our rate of return for new customers is 1.5% since no new 3% accounts are created. New users get less than the original users. There are no new opportunities. 2) There is no better rate of return right now. 3) You can't invest all you want, we won't allow more than a few billion into an account. EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net
Therese Law Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.22 11:30:00 - [5] thanks for good answer!! just one question left then. i did put in 3bil into my saving (3%) account. it is now ticking up and up. but is the limit 3bil or will i be able to put in more in the same account? that account now also have more than 3bil becouse of the interest that have been comming in all the time, do it get interest of the total amount or only 3bil? -- ♫♪ ♥ ♫♪
SentryRaven KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.22 11:31:00 - [6] Originally by: Therese Law thanks for good answer!! just one question left then. i did put in 3bil into my saving (3%) account. it is now ticking up and up. but is the limit 3bil or will i be able to put in more in the same account? that account now also have more than 3bil becouse of the interest that have been comming in all the time, do it get interest of the total amount or only 3bil? The cap of 3B is only on manual deposits into the savings account. Interest will be paid back into the savings account and new interest will be calculated on the amount in the account, not only on the 3B. -------- EBANK Forum Manager \| KIA Recruiting Director
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.22 11:35:00 - [7] Originally by: Therese Law thanks for good answer!! just one question left then. i did put in 3bil into my saving (3%) account. it is now ticking up and up. but is the limit 3bil or will i be able to put in more in the same account? that account now also have more than 3bil becouse of the interest that have been comming in all the time, do it get interest of the total amount or only 3bil? EBANK interest is compounding, so your earn interest on interest. It's quite nice. =) As for the limit on Savings accounts, you can't move anything MORE into the account once it passes 3 Billion in value. It'll still build interest though. If you withdraw money, you can only put money back in if the account value drops below 3 billion. EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net
Therese Law Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.22 12:02:00 - [8] great, thx allot! -- ♫♪ ♥ ♫♪
Dan Ryan Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.22 12:06:00 - [9] Originally by: Hexxx Originally by: Therese Law thanks for good answer!! just one question left then. i did put in 3bil into my saving (3%) account. it is now ticking up and up. but is the limit 3bil or will i be able to put in more in the same account? that account now also have more than 3bil becouse of the interest that have been comming in all the time, do it get interest of the total amount or only 3bil? EBANK interest is compounding, so your earn interest on interest. It's quite nice. =) As for the limit on Savings accounts, you can't move anything MORE into the account once it passes 3 Billion in value. It'll still build interest though. If you withdraw money, you can only put money back in if the account value drops below 3 billion. So does Ebank Compound and pay interest monthly?? And how is the interest calculated, (average amount in saving over the month? or calculated daily and paid monthly?)
SentryRaven KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.22 12:13:00 - [10] Calculated daily, paid daily. -------- EBANK Forum Manager \| KIA Recruiting Director
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.02.22 18:57:00 - [11] Originally by: Hexxx EBANK interest is compounding, so your earn interest on interest. It's quite nice. =) Let's not exaggerate, shall we? =) Black Sun Empire
Kwint Sommer Caldari XERCORE	Posted - 2009.02.22 19:02:00 - [12] Originally by: SentryRaven Calculated daily, paid daily. It's quoted in monthly values though which are a bit deceptive. 3% monthly is actually .1% daily with daily compounding. This is regardless of how many days are in a month so the monthly rate is actually as high as 3.147% which seems like a trivial difference and perhaps it is for a single month but it results in 44.025% annually as opposed to the implied rate of 42.576% annually. By reporting a monthly figure that way, you guys are actually underrating your interest by the equivalent of 1.4% annually.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.02.22 19:39:00 - [13] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 22/02/2009 19:41:42 Originally by: Kwint Sommer 3% monthly is actually .1% daily with daily compounding. This is regardless of how many days are in a month so the monthly rate is actually as high as 3.147% which seems like a trivial difference and perhaps it is for a single month but it results in 44.025% annually as opposed to the implied rate of 42.576% annually. You missed 2 things, Kwint. "Which amounts to about 43 mil isk more after one year for a 3% return savings account (assuming you don't operate significant withdrawals in that time)." And "It's quite nice. =)" Black Sun Empire
Dan Ryan Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.23 02:10:00 - [14] Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 22/02/2009 19:55:24 Originally by: Kwint Sommer 3% monthly is actually .1% daily with daily compounding. This is regardless of how many days are in a month so the monthly rate is actually as high as 3.147% which seems like a trivial difference and perhaps it is for a single month but it results in 44.025% annually as opposed to the implied rate of 42.576% annually. You missed 2 things, Kwint. "Which amounts to about 43 mil isk more after one year for a 3% return savings account (assuming you don't operate significant withdrawals in that time)." And "It's quite nice. =)" Ebank does a splendid job and they are to be commended for that. Compounded interest is just not something to brag about. I think Kwick is right, it should be listed as a comparasion rate, where all banks / bonds / ipos rates are calcuated to a certain standard. For end users to compare easily. Since most bonds/ipo pays monthly. we should use a per monthly rate, paid monthly.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.23 03:20:00 - [15] Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 22/02/2009 19:55:24 Originally by: Kwint Sommer 3% monthly is actually .1% daily with daily compounding. This is regardless of how many days are in a month so the monthly rate is actually as high as 3.147% which seems like a trivial difference and perhaps it is for a single month but it results in 44.025% annually as opposed to the implied rate of 42.576% annually. You missed 2 things, Kwint. "Which amounts to about 43 mil isk more after one year for a 3% return savings account (assuming you don't operate significant withdrawals in that time)." And "It's quite nice. =)" Ebank does a splendid job and they are to be commended for that. Compounded interest is just not something to brag about. First, thank you. Secondly, I'm not sure I'll agree with you. I'll explain why; Try calculating the interest rate based on the principle amount deposited after 24 months on the original 3% accounts. It's actually pretty good. 3 billion over 365 days yields 1,352,378,793. Now imagine another 365 days to build on the 4,352,378,793. You'd get 1,962,021,593 over the next year. That's a difference of just over 600 million or a 46% increase in interest earned from year 1 to year 2 on the principle deposit of 3 billion. This was one of Shar's biggest complaints when he was with EBANK; that we were paying too much! One of our customers actually built an interest calculator to plan on how much interest you wanted to gain: http://silver.mataribackbone.com/ebank.php EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net
Salpad Caldari Carebears with Attitude	Posted - 2009.02.23 06:46:00 - [16] Originally by: Dan Ryan I think Kwick is right, it should be listed as a comparasion rate, where all banks / bonds / ipos rates are calcuated to a certain standard. For end users to compare easily. Since most bonds/ipo pays monthly. we should use a per monthly rate, paid monthly. At the Dynasty Banking website, we stzte both monthly and daily interest rates for our two account types, and for our Certificates of Deposit, we state daily, monthly and total-period interest rates. (With the total-period rate, on CDs, being the most accurate because it suffers the least from rounding off.) -- Salpad
Salpad Caldari Carebears with Attitude	Posted - 2009.02.23 06:49:00 - [17] Originally by: Hexxx Try calculating the interest rate based on the principle amount deposited after 24 months on the original 3% accounts. It's actually pretty good. 3 billion over 365 days yields 1,352,378,793. Now imagine another 365 days to build on the 4,352,378,793. You'd get 1,962,021,593 over the next year. That's a difference of just over 600 million or a 46% increase in interest earned from year 1 to year 2 on the principle deposit of 3 billion. It is a lot over a year, and even more so over two years, yes, but the fact is that time moves faster in the world of EVE finance than it does in the world of Earth finance. Earth banks pay and charge interest on a yearly rate. If you borrow money, for whatever reason, the interest rate they tell you is per year. Likewise if you deposit money into an interest-giving account, the stated interest rate is per year. In EVE it is usually per month, and all the exceptions are shorter periods, weeks or sometimes days. -- Salpad
Amarr Citizen 155 Alternative Methods Research Group	Posted - 2009.02.23 07:05:00 - [18] Originally by: Salpad It is a lot over a year, and even more so over two years, yes, but the fact is that time moves faster in the world of EVE finance than it does in the world of Earth finance. Earth banks pay and charge interest on a yearly rate. If you borrow money, for whatever reason, the interest rate they tell you is per year. Likewise if you deposit money into an interest-giving account, the stated interest rate is per year. In EVE it is usually per month, and all the exceptions are shorter periods, weeks or sometimes days. Its funny seeing Salpad explain anything to Hexxx, especially something about how RL finance works. Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.23 07:22:00 - [19] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Originally by: Salpad It is a lot over a year, and even more so over two years, yes, but the fact is that time moves faster in the world of EVE finance than it does in the world of Earth finance. Earth banks pay and charge interest on a yearly rate. If you borrow money, for whatever reason, the interest rate they tell you is per year. Likewise if you deposit money into an interest-giving account, the stated interest rate is per year. In EVE it is usually per month, and all the exceptions are shorter periods, weeks or sometimes days. Its funny seeing Salpad explain anything to Hexxx, especially something about how RL finance works. No comment. To address the early points raised by Salpad; RL Finance is typically measured in years, EVE Finance is typically measured in months. This is why EBANK advertises it's rates per month, and DBANK does the same. I was trying to point out that people who keep their money in an account with compounding interest can see some really good returns after a longer period of time (i.e. 12+ months) Also, RL accounts (1 year) and EBANK accounts (1 month) are pretty similar. RL Savings = 2.15% EBANK Savings = 3% RL Checking = 0.75% EBANK Checking = 1.5% What an amazing coincidence! EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.02.23 11:13:00 - [20] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 23/02/2009 11:16:23 Originally by: Hexxx Try calculating the interest rate based on the principle amount deposited after 24 months on the original 3% accounts. It's actually pretty good. 3 billion over 365 days yields 1,352,378,793. Now imagine another 365 days to build on the 4,352,378,793. You'd get 1,962,021,593 over the next year. That's a difference of just over 600 million or a 46% increase in interest earned from year 1 to year 2 on the principle deposit of 3 billion. Obviously the older the deposit the better the return gets. And for a 3 bil deposit to be untouched for 24 months... if you also take into account how much time it takes to make 3 bil of idle isk, chances are that the customer quit the game already are higher than say he's planning to pay for GTCs using the accrued interest. I have to agree with you though, it might seem like an additional stress for Ebank once you put together all the now adrift deposits... but the customer is rarely in the position to benefit from it (also, savings accounts creation has been disabled some time ago). Black Sun Empire
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.23 11:21:00 - [21] Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 23/02/2009 11:16:23 Originally by: Hexxx Try calculating the interest rate based on the principle amount deposited after 24 months on the original 3% accounts. It's actually pretty good. 3 billion over 365 days yields 1,352,378,793. Now imagine another 365 days to build on the 4,352,378,793. You'd get 1,962,021,593 over the next year. That's a difference of just over 600 million or a 46% increase in interest earned from year 1 to year 2 on the principle deposit of 3 billion. Obviously the older the deposit the better the return gets. And for a 3 bil deposit to be untouched for 24 months... if you also take into account how much time it takes to make 3 bil of idle isk, chances are that the customer quit the game already are higher than say he's planning to pay for GTCs using the accrued interest. I have to agree with you though, it might seem like an additional stress for Ebank once you put together all the now adrift deposits... but the customer is rarely in the position to benefit from it (also, savings accounts creation has been disabled some time ago). You do have a good point there, who leaves ISK untouched for such a long period. I just wanted to point out that it was a better deal than most people might think if you have the discipline/patience to leave it be for a while. As to the point about sustainability.....this is a tough one. I think about it alot and one of the things I've read recently I kind of like. For accounts that aren't logged into for 12 months or more, defer recognizing the interest liability until that account is logged into yet again. This would allow us to slowly "weed" out the truly inactive accounts and our liabilities there. Of course, we'd never throw away the money and we'd owe it to them the second they log back in....but at least the burden is shifted somewhat. Anyway, this is just my own personal thinking. I'm not sure I'm ready to try and sell that idea to the Board yet. EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.02.23 11:46:00 - [22] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 23/02/2009 11:46:41 Originally by: Hexxx As to the point about sustainability.....this is a tough one. I think about it alot and one of the things I've read recently I kind of like. For accounts that aren't logged into for 12 months or more, defer recognizing the interest liability until that account is logged into yet again. This would allow us to slowly "weed" out the truly inactive accounts and our liabilities there. Of course, we'd never throw away the money and we'd owe it to them the second they log back in....but at least the burden is shifted somewhat. Anyway, this is just my own personal thinking. I'm not sure I'm ready to try and sell that idea to the Board yet. A very good idea. Also, given the increasing amount of idle isk in the market, lowering the return rate to 1.5% for all deposit types is something worth considering. Black Sun Empire
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.23 12:12:00 - [23] Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 23/02/2009 11:46:41 Originally by: Hexxx As to the point about sustainability.....this is a tough one. I think about it alot and one of the things I've read recently I kind of like. For accounts that aren't logged into for 12 months or more, defer recognizing the interest liability until that account is logged into yet again. This would allow us to slowly "weed" out the truly inactive accounts and our liabilities there. Of course, we'd never throw away the money and we'd owe it to them the second they log back in....but at least the burden is shifted somewhat. Anyway, this is just my own personal thinking. I'm not sure I'm ready to try and sell that idea to the Board yet. A very good idea. Also, given the increasing amount of idle isk in the market, lowering the return rate to 1.5% for all deposit types is something worth considering. If you mean adjusting the Savings accounts from 3% to 1.5%, I'm very very very against this. I doubt we'll ever lower the rate. We've talked about introducing deposit restrictions, or adjusting the cap on savings....but the Board is generally of the opinion that our rates are "sacred". This is why we stopped issuing Savings accounts. We couldn't stomach the idea of converting the old Savings into Checking, so we left them alone; we just stopped issuing them. EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net
Nyota Sol	Posted - 2009.02.23 12:15:00 - [24] Edited by: Nyota Sol on 23/02/2009 12:15:35 You guys scare me and i love you with all my heart. I wish i had ISK to invest. ps. Any suggestions for a new player? Even a website which explains all the investing features of the game and perhaps reviews some of the more valuable corps?
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.23 12:23:00 - [25] Originally by: Nyota Sol Edited by: Nyota Sol on 23/02/2009 12:15:35 You guys scare me and i love you with all my heart. I wish i had ISK to invest. ps. Any suggestions for a new player? Even a website which explains all the investing features of the game and perhaps reviews some of the more valuable corps? Scare you? We're not scary. As far as starting points, read the stickies. =) Part of understanding valuable corps and what not, you'll need to understand the secondary markets. I wrote an article for EVE Tribune discussing the secondary market which may be of help as well. EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2009.02.23 18:24:00 - [26] Whenever someone who has consistently been a negative suddenly turns positive... my bunghole puckers up in fear. It usually means that I'm doing something he wants or likes. With an enemy, that is the time for fear. Originally by: Hexxx I think about it alot and one of the things I've read recently I kind of like. For accounts that aren't logged into for 12 months or more, defer recognizing the interest liability until that account is logged into yet again. This would allow us to slowly "weed" out the truly inactive accounts and our liabilities there. Of course, we'd never throw away the money and we'd owe it to them the second they log back in....but at least the burden is shifted somewhat. This would be it. Nothing like having eBank go back on their given word to provide another year or two of trolling fuel. And it truly would be eBank breaking its word. Was it not you that said long term inactive depositors are the ideal eBank customer? "Deposit it and forget it" was the sales slogan. Now that you are going to have to pay the tab on that promise given is it wise to publicly discuss breaking your promise? I was against several things and, if I had been taken serious then, solutions to those problems could have been sought long ago. I find it convenient that now that the burden is increasing eBank's word is being much more flexible than its processes should have been. PS: Don't worry Hexxx. I know you are just testing the waters to see how well this idea goes down before eBank "officially" endorses it. I look forward to your positive spinning of this as well. My old mercenary(PVP) corp is recruiting again. Would you believe I'm giving them my signature block for free?
SencneS Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2009.02.23 19:34:00 - [27] I got the impression Hexxx was suggesting that EBANK not consider accounts liabilities if considered inactive. Deposit 9B, it works out interest day after day for 12 months, in that 12 month time span we consider the 9B and the interest gained liabilities. 12months and 1 day later, from last login the total amount in the account is considered inactive and therefor not considered a liability. Interest would not be reflected in the account therefor decreasing our liability. However interest would still be calculated on the account. The second the person logs in EBANK starts recording it as a liability again. Amarr for Life
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.02.23 22:55:00 - [28] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 23/02/2009 22:57:43 Originally by: Shar Tegral This would be it. The end of the world as you know it... Originally by: SencneS I got the impression Hexxx was suggesting that EBANK not consider accounts liabilities if considered inactive. Me too, pumpkin. Black Sun Empire
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.23 23:14:00 - [29] Originally by: Shar Tegral Whenever someone who has consistently been a negative suddenly turns positive... my bunghole puckers up in fear. It usually means that I'm doing something he wants or likes. With an enemy, that is the time for fear. Originally by: Hexxx I think about it alot and one of the things I've read recently I kind of like. For accounts that aren't logged into for 12 months or more, defer recognizing the interest liability until that account is logged into yet again. This would allow us to slowly "weed" out the truly inactive accounts and our liabilities there. Of course, we'd never throw away the money and we'd owe it to them the second they log back in....but at least the burden is shifted somewhat. This would be it. Nothing like having eBank go back on their given word to provide another year or two of trolling fuel. And it truly would be eBank breaking its word. Was it not you that said long term inactive depositors are the ideal eBank customer? "Deposit it and forget it" was the sales slogan. Now that you are going to have to pay the tab on that promise given is it wise to publicly discuss breaking your promise? I was against several things and, if I had been taken serious then, solutions to those problems could have been sought long ago. I find it convenient that now that the burden is increasing eBank's word is being much more flexible than its processes should have been. PS: Don't worry Hexxx. I know you are just testing the waters to see how well this idea goes down before eBank "officially" endorses it. I look forward to your positive spinning of this as well. I guess I wasn't clear enough. I'm not talking about breaking our word. We owe people every single day of interest from the second they open the account to the second that EVE explodes, EBANK shuts down, or Iceland sinks into the ocean. I'm talking about beginning to defer the recognition of that liability for accounts that haven't logged in for 12 months, not throwing it away. We still owe them that interest and we'll have to give them the interest we deferred the second they log back into the account. What I'm talking about just affects how we report our monthly interest liabilities. I have no idea how in the hell you got what you say you did out of my original post. EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2009.02.23 23:17:00 - [30] Originally by: SencneS I got the impression Hexxx was suggesting that EBANK not consider accounts liabilities if considered inactive. That's part of me point. If you may owe something to someone it does not matter if you never get called on to pay up. You still owe it. So just because a creditor or depositor is most unlikely to require payment/withdrawal does not mean it is not a debt. That goes into subjective reporting. (Hexxx might remember a place called "Arthur Anderson"?) PS: YGR, I don't mind you being critical of me or even trolling me however please refrain from intentional misquoting. Either replace my words with a "subjective" interpretation entirely or quote my words intact even if only a portion. Otherwise I'll have no choice but go back to ignoring you again and I honestly don't want to go back to that kind of interaction between us. My old mercenary(PVP) corp is recruiting again. Would you believe I'm giving them my signature block for free?

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