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John Holt
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.02.23 15:00:00 -
[1]
An EVE player who I did not know previously asked me to invest 3bn of his money for him. He said he would be gone for three months. It has now been six months and he still hasn't returned to the game. What should I do with the ISK? I'm tired of investing for him seeing as I'm getting no personal income from it.
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Hardashi
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Posted - 2009.02.23 15:05:00 -
[2]
I'd see about discussing a long term investment with either bank, or another player within the secondary market.
I'd be willing to give 4% over 3 months |
John Holt
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.02.23 15:10:00 -
[3]
Edited by: John Holt on 23/02/2009 15:10:16
 Originally by: Hardashi
I'd see about discussing a long term investment with either bank, or another player within the secondary market.
I'd be willing to give 4% over 3 months
I was thinking of depositing it, but if he is this long overdue I'm thinking that he has abandoned the game completely. Who knows.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.02.23 15:14:00 -
[4]
You could also lock it down into something useful like BPOs for instance |
Stealing Honest
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Posted - 2009.02.23 15:33:00 -
[5]
Your agreement was for a 3 month investment. Pay him 3bn + 3 months profit on the investment as agreed if/when he returns. Until then keep rolling it over and call it a management fee.
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Keyser Kahn
Stellar-Parallax Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.23 16:30:00 -
[6]
There are three main courses of action as I see it and they will revolve around your personal ethics.
1. Keep investing it on his behalf until his eventual return (which includes just keeping it with E-Bank or D-Bank).
2. Calculate the return for the three months and use the capital to work for your own benefit.
3. Send him the money and interest either to date or the original three months back to his Character so it is there should he ever come back to game.
Personally I would go with number three (regardless of being able to leverage benefit from 3bn capital).
Although I would probably wonder why I didn't carry on "looking after it" if the Character never logged in again  .
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Krathos Morpheus
Gallente
Legion Infernal
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.02.23 16:48:00 -
[7]
Keep the three billions, make profit from them. If/when he returns to the game, give him part of the benefits (at least the first three months benefit)
EVE Knowledge |
cpt Mark
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Posted - 2009.02.23 17:09:00 -
[8]
Yes, keep investing the cash. Keep all t he profits for yourself.
I left in September, giving away 400Million,
returned in January, out of the blue. and got 20Million back wooo!.
Now I'm a multi-billionare.
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Sun Clausewitz
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Posted - 2009.02.23 17:34:00 -
[9]
Just go ahead and give it to me... I will hold on to it for you
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2009.02.23 18:32:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Keyser Kahn
3. Send him the money and interest either to date or the original three months back to his Character so it is there should he ever come back to game.
This. Your agreement had a specific time frame. Holding on to the money past that time frame was not covered thus is not an option. Sadly, you didn't cover any recompense for yourself but that doesn't excuse you from your obligation to your given word. In fact, mostly shame on you for holding onto it this long and only now seeking some advice. Also, I'd send him the extra interest you gained for the additional three months. Caveat: Mind you it is entirely possible to monitor the balance of a toon while never logging in as that toon. I have a few alts that I can go a year or more without logging them in. Doesn't mean I don't monitor them. I will concede that it appears that he doesn't care or is no longer playing. But that is totally beside the point. Your agreement should be honored as it stands. Any opportunity losses is upon both of you, mostly him, for not having considered this possibility.
My old mercenary(PVP) corp is recruiting again. Would you believe I'm giving them my signature block for free? |
Krathos Morpheus
Gallente
Legion Infernal
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.02.23 19:17:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Keyser Kahn
3. Send him the money and interest either to date or the original three months back to his Character so it is there should he ever come back to game.
This. Your agreement had a specific time frame. Holding on to the money past that time frame was not covered thus is not an option. Sadly, you didn't cover any recompense for yourself but that doesn't excuse you from your obligation to your given word. In fact, mostly shame on you for holding onto it this long and only now seeking some advice. Also, I'd send him the extra interest you gained for the additional three months. Caveat: Mind you it is entirely possible to monitor the balance of a toon while never logging in as that toon. I have a few alts that I can go a year or more without logging them in. Doesn't mean I don't monitor them. I will concede that it appears that he doesn't care or is no longer playing. But that is totally beside the point. Your agreement should be honored as it stands. Any opportunity losses is upon both of you, mostly him, for not having considered this possibility.
You are so right in the case that a formal agreement had been done, but it looks to me that it could be a more informal agreement. Was the agreement done throught the forums or chat? If done on the forums, please give us a link to examine it.
If it was done on chat, it can be another story, since it could be him asking to invest the money until he is back. Then saying it will be like three months or so. If the conditions were not clearly stablished, I would feel free to continue investing the money and discuss the issue whith him when he is back, giving him only part of the benefits for your efforts.
If a formal agreement was done, the time frame would be very clear on this matter. If the time frame includes him returning to EVE, even if it says until I come back in three months, one of the terms has not been reached.
EVE Knowledge |
MinmatarCitizen100223041
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Posted - 2009.02.23 22:20:00 -
[12]
Edited by: MinmatarCitizen100223041 on 23/02/2009 22:21:16
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Your agreement had a specific time frame. Holding on to the money past that time frame was not covered thus is not an option. Sadly, you didn't cover any recompense for yourself but that doesn't excuse you from your obligation to your given word.
Wrong, sending the isk back when he could make all sorts of uses with it while keeping it liquid is folly. If the guy never comes back then this is wasted isk and no one will know the good deed done. Bad advice overall and hopefully not the final course of action.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2009.02.23 22:59:00 -
[13]
Originally by: MinmatarCitizen100223041
If the guy never comes back then this is wasted isk and no one will know the good deed done.
Originally by: H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
Our character is what we do when we think no one is looking.
This is the difference between you and I. I am someone well known and you are someone without even a name of your own.
My old mercenary(PVP) corp is recruiting again. Would you believe I'm giving them my signature block for free? |
Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2009.02.23 23:12:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Stealing Honest
Your agreement was for a 3 month investment. Pay him 3bn + 3 months profit on the investment as agreed if/when he returns. Until then keep rolling it over and call it a management fee.
There you go, your answer.
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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MinmatarCitizen100223041
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Posted - 2009.02.24 03:14:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: MinmatarCitizen100223041
If the guy never comes back then this is wasted isk and no one will know the good deed done.
Originally by: H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
Our character is what we do when we think no one is looking.
This is the difference between you and I. I am someone well known and you are someone without even a name of your own.
Sending the money to a character that might never log on again is a good idea? How about if he offers the character more return based on some random multiplier above one?
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2009.02.24 03:42:00 -
[16]
Originally by: MinmatarCitizen100223041
Sending the money to a character that might never log on again is a good idea? How about if he offers the character more return based on some random multiplier above one?
First, post with your main. Second, trying to explain ethical behavior to someone who does not get it is like trying to talk a 12 o'clock flasher through computer trouble over the phone. I accept that your opinion is valid but morally defunct if you are willing to accept that my opinion is valid but stupid in your eyes. All's good and fare you well.
My old mercenary(PVP) corp is recruiting again. Would you believe I'm giving them my signature block for free? |
Ricdic
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.24 04:02:00 -
[17]
Contact the person in RL through email etc (ask his corpmates etc) and ask him if he is leaving Eve and if you can have his stuff. As you already have it he will probably just say yes.
I have had a few ingame friends in the past advise they are leaving and pass me all their odds and ends before walking away (the last being a Power Diagnostic II BPO). In the PDS BPO example I was producing it for them anyway. |
John Holt
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.02.24 19:03:00 -
[18]
Thanks guys for all your advice. I was considering just sending it to the character but I now see that is not a good idea. I've not made a final decision, but I'm thinking now of putting his profits in EBank and using the 3 bil (investing it) and considering the income my fee for the job. Seems like the best option.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.02.24 19:13:00 -
[19]
You took 3B of investment cash and invested it for 3 months.
Two options I would consider.
1. Calculate profits at 3 months and return cash back to player.
2. Continue to use capital. Calculate the return after 3 months, and keep note.
Now borrow the entire pot of cash and pay a fixed rate of interest on it (3% per month is fair). You can make a profit on the rest (at anytime if you get bored just return the cash + return + interest back to the player).
When the player returns add the interest to the 3 month pot and give back to player.
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Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2009.02.24 19:23:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Hardashi
I'd see about discussing a long term investment with either bank, or another player within the secondary market.
It might be possible to talk to either of the in-game banks about setting up an account in the player's name.
We at Dynasty Banking pay better interest than EBank, but we're under-staffed at the moment. We'll solve that problem eventually (soon, I hope!), but for the time being approaching EBank with the issue might be best.
--
Salpad |
Kwint Sommer
Caldari
XERCORE
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Posted - 2009.02.24 19:25:00 -
[21]
Originally by: John Holt
Thanks guys for all your advice. I was considering just sending it to the character but I now see that is not a good idea. I've not made a final decision, but I'm thinking now of putting his profits in EBank and using the 3 bil (investing it) and considering the income my fee for the job. Seems like the best option.
Assuming you're sure he's not currently playing, I would hold on to the ISK and continue to invest it. When he returns, I would give him the principle plus the original 3 month's interest plus 1.5% (what EBANK would have earned him) for every following month you've had it. The difference between what you earned on it and the 1.5% you're giving him is your management fee. If you get tired of investing it just put it in EBANK and let them earn the nominal 1.5%. Also, once a month, preferably on the anniversary of the day you were suppose to repay him, send him an eve-mail indicating that you still have his funds and how much they are now worth.
Having done this, you'll earn yourself a decent bit for your time and when he returns I doubt he'll object to you having included an extra 1.5% monthly. Plus, he'll see the long string of eve-mails replete with interest statements and realize that you've been quite diligent about the whole business.
Shar has a good point but I would have trouble just letting my friend/investors money sit there, completely inactive, slowly loosing it's value to inflation. I'd consider it a disservice not to at least place it in EBANK on his behalf. You trusted you to handle his money so handle it until he returns.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.02.24 19:35:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Shar has a good point but I would have trouble just letting my friend/investor's money sit there, completely inactive, slowly loosing its value to inflation. I'd consider it a disservice not to at least place it in EBANK on his behalf. He trusted you to handle his money so handle it until he returns.
more or less how I approach everyone that entrusts isk with me. It'll be here until they return and should I ever leave I'll make sure to wire it to their character before closing my doors. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2009.02.24 20:00:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Shar has a good point but I would have trouble just letting my friend/investor's money sit there, completely inactive, slowly loosing its value to inflation. I'd consider it a disservice not to at least place it in EBANK on his behalf. He trusted you to handle his money so handle it until he returns.
Okay, as an example, there are a few people who purchased some of my CD's that have unsubscribed their accounts. The purchase of the CD's (500M each) was intentionally made because they were unsubscribing their accounts. I made sure I have means of communication, I made sure that terms were specified. I control how long I want to have the work and responsibility of their funds entrusted to me. Mr. Holt's position is one of having done a friend a favor that is probably turning into a chore. That is if he continues without some recompense. However recompense was not in the deal. When a deal is bad, you complete it - totally - and then get the hell out of it as fast as you can. Especially if you have no means of renegotiating the deal. I'm not saying that there is no alternate possible solution. But the reality is: right is right and there is no room for anything less than the clearest, strictest, and most transparent of choices. What I'm finding interesting though is the very malleable ethical nature of some in this thread. Interesting meaning troubling and disquieting. I will most assuredly be revising my own opinions, and portfolio, in this new light.
My old mercenary(PVP) corp is recruiting again. Would you believe I'm giving them my signature block for free? |
Digital Nightfall
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Posted - 2009.02.25 08:45:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Digital Nightfall on 25/02/2009 08:49:57
Originally by: John Holt
An EVE player who I did not know previously asked me to invest 3bn of his money for him. He said he would be gone for three months. It has now been six months and he still hasn't returned to the game. What should I do with the ISK? I'm tired of investing for him seeing as I'm getting no personal income from it.
This is not a friend, so the argument that he would be in throes about how his poor friends isk is sitting idle and suffering the inflation is not his motivator. So lets not debate as if it was.
John Holt, you cant keep the isk. It is not yours. You have no right to it. You made an agreement to keep possesion of it for 3 months and you have gone far longer without returning it.
Ive read this forum for more than 2 years, since I stopped playing in 2007. And Im really surprised that you would be stumbling over a curb this small, your other posts havent been reflective of that character flaw... and it is a flaw that you cannot grasp something that is really very simple... a small, tiny to be honest, temptation and youre falling flat on your face.
MD is not an authority to liberate you from your personal responsibility in taking this guys isk for your own. Dont go there. What a dissapointment.
Shar is spot on.
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Mrtan
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Posted - 2009.02.25 16:25:00 -
[25]
Say that you invested them in an IPO and got scammed, and keep the isk yourself
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MinmatarCitizen100223041
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Posted - 2009.02.25 18:59:00 -
[26]
People are just angry that you have received isk without trying. Please do the right thing and keep investing it only as much as it remains fun for you and give your friend an extra return if he ever comes back.
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Vagis Penina
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Posted - 2009.02.25 19:13:00 -
[27]
Wow, certain people in this thread have sand in their vgns. Do you stop in the middle of the road when the traffic light changes to "don't walk"?
Minmatar citizen for the win.
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John Holt
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.02.26 05:50:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Digital Nightfall
Edited by: Digital Nightfall on 25/02/2009 08:49:57
Originally by: John Holt
An EVE player who I did not know previously asked me to invest 3bn of his money for him. He said he would be gone for three months. It has now been six months and he still hasn't returned to the game. What should I do with the ISK? I'm tired of investing for him seeing as I'm getting no personal income from it.
This is not a friend, so the argument that he would be in throes about how his poor friends isk is sitting idle and suffering the inflation is not his motivator. So lets not debate as if it was.
John Holt, you cant keep the isk. It is not yours. You have no right to it. You made an agreement to keep possesion of it for 3 months and you have gone far longer without returning it.
Ive read this forum for more than 2 years, since I stopped playing in 2007. And Im really surprised that you would be stumbling over a curb this small, your other posts havent been reflective of that character flaw... and it is a flaw that you cannot grasp something that is really very simple... a small, tiny to be honest, temptation and youre falling flat on your face.
MD is not an authority to liberate you from your personal responsibility in taking this guys isk for your own. Dont go there. What a dissapointment.
Shar is spot on.
I have no intention of taking the isk for myself. I was asking for options on how I should handle the matter now that the individual is over due.
I've decided to just rid myself of the problem and I've sent the ISK to toon. Simple enough.
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Brock Nelson
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2009.02.26 05:52:00 -
[29]
Comon, take it...you know you want to ;)
Blueprint Store |
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