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Ron Armatech
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Posted - 2009.02.24 12:34:00 -
[1]
Im toying with raptor setup on eft and sisi and i think ive found something. Its expensive in rig part but theyre unnecessary for setup to work.
Here goes:
[HIGHS]
3x Small Electron Blaster II w/ CN Antimatter
1x Rocket Launcher II w/ CN Foxfire/Thorn
[MEDS]
1x Catalyzed Cold Gas I Arcject Thrusters
1x Warp Scrambler II
1x Cap Recharger II
[LOWS]
2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
1x Capacitor Power Relay II
[RIGS]
Ancilliary Current Router I
Engine Thermal Shielding I
Eft says it has around 170dps with my crappy skills. That and cap stability makes for pro-part. Cons- very vulnerable to neuting (every frig is but some have small vampire which helps a bit or better small cap booster). Rigs as has been said earlier are not necessary.. Well ACR is for rocket launcher but its addition to overall damage is minor thus it can be swapped for something cheaper. Same goes with ETS- it makes fitting completely stable but without it you still have around 7minutes of running everything.
What are your opinions? Is Raptor viable and comparable with any other interceptors?
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.02.24 12:41:00 -
[2]
That's a horribly expensive rig to put on a very ****ty ceptor.
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Ron Armatech
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Posted - 2009.02.24 12:51:00 -
[3]
uhm thanks for constructive criticism, any other thoughts?
Note to self: rigs are evil. they give birth to trolls.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.02.24 12:53:00 -
[4]
Raptor is a tackler not a fighter. trying to use it as such means you can only kill stuff you could also kill in a normal T1 frig like a Merlin. No use.
Self-proclaimed idiot
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.02.24 13:06:00 -
[5]
Edited by: TraininVain on 24/02/2009 13:13:19
 Originally by: Ron Armatech
uhm thanks for constructive criticism, any other thoughts?
Note to self: rigs are evil. they give birth to trolls.
Seriously.
30m rig. 10m ceptor.
You've got it fitted with blasters for reasonable dps.
You could use a 12m ceptor for that without an ACR and do the job better.
If you want a tackle ceptor I'd probably fit for speed. And in an ideal universe use a faster ship with more low slots.
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Ron Armatech
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Posted - 2009.02.24 13:19:00 -
[6]
Originally by: TraininVain
Seriously. [...]
and thats better answer.
Lets not focus on rig as i said clearly, it landed there only for rocket launcher and is unnecessary for fit to work.
Idea behind that fit was to close distance fast, disable targets mwd with scram and hope to fly into tight 500m-1km orbit before he shuts down mine. Hopefully non-mwd speed will be sufficient to stay there.
Its not omgwtfpwn-mobile, you have pick fights and targets. I agree on ****ty ceptor part and this is why i try exploring fittings here. Its inferior to any other tackling ceptor because of serious lack of speed and big initial mass so if i wanted tackling id go for some stiletto or ares.
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Leon 026
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.24 13:22:00 -
[7]
I dont get the whole outrage of using rigs that are more expensive than the ship. Considering I've been flying 1bil+ isk interceptors for the last 2-3 years and only lost a handful. Anyhow, the main question you should be asking is: what are you trying to achieve with your interceptor? If its going to tackle, then you can already ignore the DPS part. If you're wanting to DPS, well, then not much changes could be done to that setup other than recommend a more gunship-type inty or might as well go AF if we really want to tread that route.
What many tend to disregard regarding the raptor, is that its got range as its strong point in addition to its inherently faster lock and faster warp speed. Thus, it would make more sense (to me anyways) to fit long range on the raptor and use it for long range tackle, beyond enemy weapon range and BS neut range. If the job as a tackler isnt to DPS but to hold point, then all you need is an aggressively-fitted wingman to do the dogfighting for you while you keep point at extreme range while keeping speed to avoid incoming fire. That would seem more sensible in my opinion.
Recruiting |
secara
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Posted - 2009.02.24 13:29:00 -
[8]
IMHO invest 10-15 days in gallente frigate and fly a taranis.
much much better
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.02.24 13:30:00 -
[9]
Edited by: TraininVain on 24/02/2009 13:33:26
Quote:
I dont get the whole outrage of using rigs that are more expensive than the ship.
The "outrage" was over using a rig that cost more than the ship to achieve something you could do *better on another ship that cost the same without the rig.
It's expense with no real benefit was my point I think.
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Ron Armatech
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Posted - 2009.02.24 13:49:00 -
[10]
Leon made good point about range adventage of raptor. I tried to fit it with 75mm rails and 125mm rails but it wasnt very satisfactory despite very good optimal ranges i got so i tried different approach which is presented in first post.
besides that everythings rolling over rig part, which i dont really get. my isk my trouble lol. I stated 3 times that its there to polish design and is unnecessary for fitting to work.
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.02.24 13:53:00 -
[11]
You asked 
Quote:
What are your opinions? Is Raptor viable and comparable with any other interceptors?
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Leon 026
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.24 13:59:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ron Armatech
Leon made good point about range adventage of raptor. I tried to fit it with 75mm rails and 125mm rails but it wasnt very satisfactory despite very good optimal ranges i got so i tried different approach which is presented in first post.
besides that everythings rolling over rig part, which i dont really get. my isk my trouble lol. I stated 3 times that its there to polish design and is unnecessary for fitting to work.
There's an old thread written in 2005 or early 2006 that was talking about how to dogfight with a raptor (back when it had 2 launchers 2 turrets), which was actually quite interesting and worth reading if you feel like searching on the forums. (something along the essence of medium-range kiting a la railranis only with more DPS iirc).
Personally, I've tested the raptor with both blaster and rail setups, and while the blaster setup actually had pretty good dps, I found the rail setups to be more versatile for general purpose tackling roles, even if I eventually fell back to the crow, if only for the reason that the crow just looks better, and i've been flying it since 2005 /shrug.
In general, the best advice I can give these days to inty pilots, is to read the old 2005-2006 inty threads, and gradually work your way up. You wont be able to build or fly a good inty if you base your foundation on 2007/2008 stuff.
There's an experimental raptor setup I tested that did somewhat ok, which was using a sensor booster (before they added in scripts), since the raptor had better scan resolution than the crow for tackling on-gate.
Recruiting |
Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.24 14:43:00 -
[13]
Raptor needs more powergrid.
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.24 14:53:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Leon 026
In general, the best advice I can give these days to inty pilots, is to read the old 2005-2006 inty threads, and gradually work your way up. You wont be able to build or fly a good inty if you base your foundation on 2007/2008 stuff.
You are wrong.
If they try to fly by 2005/2006 rules they will die horribly .
Just remember that time there was no overheat, which is a huge advantage for close range ceptors.
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
Druuge Crimson Corporation
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Posted - 2009.02.24 15:26:00 -
[15]
I use my craptor as a T2 shuttle. If for some reason I need to be in a tackle inty for a fight I'll use a sensor boosted Ares and get the job done right. |
Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2009.02.24 19:23:00 -
[16]
Tackle Raptor:
2x Overdrive II
Damage Control II
1MN MWD (Catalyzed)
Warp Disruptor II
Warp Scrambler II *Swap for cap recharger if you're being cheap and using a T1 MWD* The scram is for shutting off hostile inty MWDs that are coming after you.
3x 75mm Rail II
Rocket launcher II
Weapons are defensive
Rigs if you must would be the auxiliary thrusters for a little extra speed.
Damage Control buys you enough time to pop warrior II's.
Important Internet Spaceship League Wants You |
Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2009.02.24 19:27:00 -
[17]
Blaster - Suicide dart:
2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Emergency Damage Control
1M MWD
Faint Epsilon Warp Scram
Webifier II
3x Light Electron Blaster II
Dive in and scram web target, and hope your friendly ecm/dps keeps your 4 million isk coffin alive.
Important Internet Spaceship League Wants You |
Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.02.24 21:21:00 -
[18]
The raptor is not a dogfighter inty as that is the crows role which it does very well. The whole point of the raptor is the 36~45km overheated point you can lay down on a target. Overheat the mwd and point to quickly reduce range and lock down the target then orbit at the unheated range and put both mods back to normal use. Two resist rigs for 74% explosive resist to shrug off those pesky warriors and a nice rack of autocannons to lay waste to ecm drones or even warriors as the unbonused autocannons have 3 times the tracking and the same dps as 75mm rails. Signal amp to boost the lock out to 40km+ and make proper use of the warp disruptor range bonus and a small cap booster for those oh**** times when you stray too close to a neuting bs or curse. Stiletto is probably the only other tackle inty thats better in this role. 
[Raptor, Tackler]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Signal Amplifier II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200
Shadow Serpentis Warp Disruptor <--39km overheated point in place of that lulz useless 30 mil rig so use a T2 for cheapness and a 36km overheated point.
1MN MicroWarpdrive II
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket
Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I
Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I
Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman |
Ron Armatech
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Posted - 2009.02.25 12:16:00 -
[19]
again that fking rig.
anyways i like Zebas fitting tho i was thinking more of a suicidal blaster type mentioned earlier. still waiting to test it
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Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.02.25 12:28:00 -
[20]
I don't fly craptor often. That said, I use something like Zeba's fitting, but with more nano mods. It was fit before QR though, so I might change it today. The AC's are there for when I need to pop a pod or a drone. Mostly, I use it as a tackle though.
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Jhagiti Tyran
Mortis Angelus
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Posted - 2009.02.25 12:59:00 -
[21]
Fast locking raptor:-
3x 75mm Railgun IIs (CN Thorium)
T2 1MN MWD
Warp disruptor II
Sensor booster II (scan res script)
2x Overdrive II
1x w/e
Get the initial point then chase something else down or gtfo once someone else calls point.
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Noisrevbus
Caldari
Breams Gone Wild
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Posted - 2009.02.25 13:05:00 -
[22]
The problem most of the rather unfavoured Ceptors with a tackle bonus have, is that the bonus is based on percentage and thus push them toward that long range role. The bonus is not strong enough to impact much on the use of scramblers, and it's also in competition with the Gallente secondary EWar bonus.
If the bonus was applied differently (say, a +5km flat bonus, just to point to a simple example), you could do some exciting things with scramblers (which seem to be a new key role for Ceptors overall) but as it stands the more DPS-oriented Ceptors just fill that role better when the tackle-bonus is trivial to scramblers, and in many situations the same Ceptors even compete in the long range role. It's not like most people choose a Raptor over a Crow for example, even if they are using 24km+ disruptors, seeing how a Ceptor is reasonably safely operated even around 20km.
The best way i can summarize my point is that there is no real (ingame, effective) situation where the tackling bonus hold much bearing. It may increase your safety buffert, but overall you should be reasonably safe without it in situations that pose lower threat (eg., versus ships without stronger tackle bonuses) and the bonus do not improve your situation fighting ships with stronger tackle bonuses (eg., a Minmatar Recon can fit faction and overload as well, 39km of overload and faction is not daunting to him). Fighting other fast ships, a longer point isn't very central to the fight, and the bonus is only 1.6km when fitting scrams.
That's the first and foremost reason why most tackle-bonused Ceptors are still underused and half-priced compared to their more popular siblings. The tackle bonus have no application in real effect, and the ships will always be worse than either a DPS-Ceptor or a Gallente EAS/Recon since there is no middle ground where being a hybrid of both have real effect. It's even a problem when it comes to range bonuses on smaller ships in general, which is dually unfortunate for the Raptor since that makes both it's bonuses weak. It's bonus to weapon range is just so ineffective on frigate-sized weapons, that most things it can do is done better on another platform that have bonuses more in tune with the weapon size. If the Raptor used missiles like the Crow, then you would be able to see a more clear cut difference.
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Noisrevbus
Caldari
Breams Gone Wild
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Posted - 2009.02.25 13:43:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Noisrevbus on 25/02/2009 13:46:02
Oh, im sorry about being a miserable git. If i should be constructive, i would use a Raptor like this...
1x CPR II
2x OD II
1x MWD II
1x Warp disruptor II (aka. Point II)
1x Scram
3x 75mm Rail II
1x SML
That would at least give it some flexibility to work that hybrid-range it's stuck in.
Use it as an initial tackler, just as Jhagiti mentions, and then swoop in to kill MWD when need be and run back towards safe orbit again. |
arbiter reformed
Minmatar
Shut Up And Play
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Posted - 2009.02.25 14:12:00 -
[24]
Edited by: arbiter reformed on 25/02/2009 14:13:08
BLAPTOR the ranis and everything else muncher
nuetron II ionIIx2
scram web mwd
mag stabII,dc,aux power core
rigs? speed or falloff but it doesnt really need either
oh and youll only beet ranasis by loading null and staying way outa there optimal
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Jebba IV
Vale Tudo.
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.25 16:14:00 -
[25]
"Raptor, any suggestions?"
Sell it
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Faffywaffy
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Posted - 2009.02.25 16:30:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Faffywaffy on 25/02/2009 16:35:26
Edited by: Faffywaffy on 25/02/2009 16:30:35
Originally by: Noisrevbus
The bonus is not strong enough to impact much on the use of scramblers...
It is strong enough, just barely. On a standard (small) gate, a ship jumping through will end up about 12.5km away from the gate. An unbonused (even overheated) scrambler will have a shorter range than that and will thus have trouble catching cruisers (and smaller sized ships) before they warp off (see QR agility buff). A bonused, overheated, scrambler, however, will have a just barely longer range that that, and coupled with an overheated web (13km range) should be able to prevent most cruisers from both warping off and reapproaching the gate.
Originally by: Noisrevbus
The best way i can summarize my point is that there is no real (ingame, effective) situation where the tackling bonus hold much bearing.
Again, you are wrong. An unbonused disruptor falls well within the range of heavy neut, making tackling a BS fitted with one very difficult (you either have to fit a cap booster or a small nos and get close and hope he doesn't have a web or scram or light drones). A bonused disruptor gives you a 30km range, slightly outside heavy neut range. A fast BS with heavy neuts will still be able to get inside heavy neut range, but that's why you should always start tackling while overheating the disruptor (36km, comfortably outside heavy neut range) and then judge whether it's safe enough to stop overheating and close up. Your backup should be close enough to get there in time before your disruptor burns out anyway.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.02.25 18:04:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Jebba IV
"Raptor, any suggestions?"
Sell it
Buy rifter. Do same thing with smaller pricetag and more DPS.
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bettybettybettybetty
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Posted - 2009.02.25 19:33:00 -
[28]
You seem to have landed on the **** caldari interceptor I'll give you another chance at guessing which one doesn't suck.
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Novantco
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.02.25 19:44:00 -
[29]
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.25 19:47:00 -
[30]
Originally by: bettybettybettybetty
You seem to have landed on the **** caldari interceptor I'll give you another chance at guessing which one doesn't suck.
the taranis? yeah it need a little more learning (gall frig lvl5),but thats all
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