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deppth
Everybodys-Dead-Dave
0
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Posted - 2012.04.25 10:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I watched the video at fan-fest about the ship balancing.
I noticed the Legion was highlighted in red, does this mean It's getting a buff at last!? because at the moment it's a very limited ship with terrible DPS for the training required.
The max I've seen a legion do is 850dps. And that's with faction modules....
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Maxine Bellorum
Posthuman Society
Enclave.
2
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Posted - 2012.04.25 10:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
so 850 dps is a bad thing for a t3? |
deppth
Everybodys-Dead-Dave
0
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Posted - 2012.04.25 11:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Well the Tengu can hit 1200+ at a much better range.
Clearly CCP think there is something wrong with the Legion as It's highlighted in red. |
Jekto Altaris
Impulsive Anarchy
5
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Posted - 2012.04.25 11:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
deppth wrote:Well the Tengu can hit 1200+ at a much better range.
Clearly CCP think there is something wrong with the Legion as It's highlighted in red.
Please link a Tengu fit with 1200+ dps and not a 1200+ dps tank. |
Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2012.04.25 11:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
deppth wrote:Well the Tengu can hit 1200+ at a much better range.
Clearly CCP think there is something wrong with the Legion as It's highlighted in red.
Perhaps they're just showing a picture of how they want it to look in-game. The legion is going to be red.  |
deppth
Everybodys-Dead-Dave
0
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Posted - 2012.04.25 11:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Perihelion Olenard wrote:deppth wrote:Well the Tengu can hit 1200+ at a much better range.
Clearly CCP think there is something wrong with the Legion as It's highlighted in red. Perhaps they're just showing a picture of how they want it to look in-game. The legion is going to be red.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1067557
Nah the Legion is a mess at the moment. Terrible range and very average DPS |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2012.04.25 14:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jekto Altaris wrote:Please link a Tengu fit with 1200+ dps and not a 1200+ dps tank.
Not possible, but this does 1000+ dps without implants and has 1000 dps tank.
[Tengu, Tengu fit]
Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile
[Empty High slot]
Gistum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Gistum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Estamel's Modified Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Estamel's Modified Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Estamel's Modified EM Ward Field
Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System
Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System
Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System
Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System
Medium Bay Loading Accelerator II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I
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Kisuke Riva
Ares Inc.
18
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Posted - 2012.04.25 14:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bring this to your next Armor HAC roaming and you'll have some fun. If you whine about the price tag, go run some incursions with a little tweaking.
[Legion, Big Daddy Zealot]
Damage Control II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner
True Sansha Warp Disruptor
Stasis Webifier II
Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Legion Defensive - Augmented Plating
Legion Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network
Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers
Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
577
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 14:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
From the other Legion thread:
Stats of some major wormhole alliances/corps:
Transmission Lost
Rooks and Kings
Adhocracy Inc.
Aquila Inc.
SRS
Aperture Harmonics
Narwhals ate my duck
Exhale.
NorCorp Enterprise
Proteus 15156
Legion 15044
Loki 14892
Tengu 3292
Nerf the Tengu!
~ Elite forum PvP ~ |
Teras Lakkos
ZERO HEAVY INDUSTRIES
24eme Legion Etrangere
32
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Posted - 2012.04.25 16:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
1 and a half working offensive subs, non versatile, silly slot allocations and terrible ewar bonus.
Does laser pve pretty well and is tanky. About sums it up.
quick edit: if i had to guess as to the fixes by ccp
slapping it and the pilgrim with a range bonus on neuts
rework of the offensive subs
moar lows |
Maxine Bellorum
Posthuman Society
Enclave.
3
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Posted - 2012.04.26 02:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
If you know anything about whs, you'll also know why the legion is the most used t3 for pvp ops. This post shows otherwise.
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Entrepreuna
Wrecking Shots
Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2012.04.26 02:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
R&K uses Neuting legions. They play a very niche role. Overall the legion isn't bad. it's a pretty solid PvP t3.... |
Jack Miton
Lapse Of Sanity
Exhale.
213
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Posted - 2012.04.26 04:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
Legion is crap, no way around it.
Only thing it does very well is neut.
It needs a dps bonus on the covers sub and a 25m3 drone bay on its HAM and Laser subs.
Could also use a very slight grid buff on the laser sub. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Late Night Alliance
598
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 04:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Legion is crap, no way around it.
Only thing it does very well is neut.
The 100MN AB-HAM Legion would like to speak to you.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
591
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 05:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
I don't really see the logic here.
1. Ship is excellent at something in PvP
2. Ship is about the most used T3 for PvP
-> ship sucks for PvP?
All three T3s have a role in PvP. Proteus brawls, Legion neuts and Loki gives the minmatards a chance to experience T3 combat while they skill up for Proteus.
Tengus are not really welcome to fleets, but they sometimes end up on killmails when someone fails a gank in anomalies.
~ Elite forum PvP ~ |
Alara IonStorm
2035
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 05:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
Roime wrote:
Tengus are not really welcome to fleets, but they sometimes end up on killmails when someone fails a gank in anomalies.
They are very welcome in Tengu fleets. If you limit the PvP argument to the Jita undock the Vindicator is the best ship in the game. Tengu's are wider spread then the other T3's outside of Wormholes.
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Roime
Shiva Furnace
592
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 07:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
If you limit the PVP argument to blob fests, Drake is the best ship in game 
Also, my post had other completely serious statements as well.
There are many practical reasons why people prefer small-sig massive buffer armor brawlers in w-space, none of which make the Tengu a sucky ship in general
On seriously serious note just forget all blanket statements.
~ Elite forum PvP ~ |
deppth
Everybodys-Dead-Dave
0
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Posted - 2012.04.26 11:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
The legion is dire at PVE. Terrible range and average damage!
Not everybody wants to PVP! |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
594
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 11:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
deppth wrote:
Not everybody wants to PVP!
Yes they do, but some people just don't know it yet 
~ Elite forum PvP ~ |
Mr Floydy
The Xenodus Initiative.
17
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 12:24:00 -
[20] - Quote
Legion is pretty awesome in some fits, both for PvP and PvE. It does lack the flexibility of some of the other T3s though - that's the buff I'd like to see.
I'm yet to see any real use for the drone sub, cloaky sub could do with a more useful bonus too.
re: the other subs - I can't decide on the parasitic sub, in some ways I'd prefer a range bonus, but it also has some nice niche uses with an amount bonus.
I'd not complain about a nice buff though ;) |
Adeena Torcfist
Dark Underground Forces
27
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Posted - 2012.04.30 10:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
parasitic should have a range bonus & keep the current amount bonus. HAMs need more damage or at the very least, travel further than they currently do, with maybe a small drone bay.
Drone sub needs an overhaul. |
Jerick Ludhowe
Wraiths of Abaddon
62
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Posted - 2012.04.30 11:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
deppth wrote:So I watched the video at fan-fest about the ship balancing.
I noticed the Legion was highlighted in red, does this mean It's getting a buff at last!? because at the moment it's a very limited ship with terrible DPS for the training required.
The max I've seen a legion do is 850dps. And that's with faction modules....
You buff the legion and there literally will be no reason to fly the far more skill intensive Absolution. The legion is basically better at being an absolution than the absolution is.
|
Mr Floydy
The Xenodus Initiative.
17
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Posted - 2012.04.30 13:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:You buff the legion and there literally will be no reason to fly the far more skill intensive Absolution. The legion is basically better at being an absolution than the absolution is.
This is true, but really - go compare the Proteus to the Astarte and especially the Tengu to the Nighthawk.
Absolution and Astarte atleast have some benefits over a T3 - whilst the Nighthawk has none whatsoever over the Tengu.
Combat fit T3s and Command ships need a bit of tweaking accross the board. |
deppth
Everybodys-Dead-Dave
0
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Posted - 2012.04.30 14:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
The legion needs more range or a drone bay!
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Darex Nidor
Interstellar Ministeries
United Homeworlds
2
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Posted - 2012.04.30 14:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
Legion needs damage bonus for cov ops sub |
Adeena Torcfist
Dark Underground Forces
27
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Posted - 2012.05.01 11:43:00 -
[26] - Quote
I think when the legion gets buffed, they will adjust the commandships accordingly. So i really wouldnt worry. In fact, a few ships may get a slight buff.
I fi dont see range & amount on the parasitic sub, more range or vastly more damage on the HAM's, the Cov ops overhaul & drone sub Fixed, not only will i not be happy, but it'll be a waste of time.
Tho i have confidence that the developers are already looking into this, & testing of the news modified stats will be up on SiSi soon for testing  |
Gul'gotha Derv'ash
Occupational Hazzard
Ushra'Khan
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 14:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
I think the main problem with T3's in general is that the Tengu is leaps and bounds above the others. It can do just about everything any of the other T3's can do and usually does it better. That makes everyone look at T3's and think everything but the Tengu sucks. Which in all but specific situations (when compared to the Tengu), they do.
I think that the Tengu needs taken down a peg or two, or the other T3's need to get buff in a few spots. Look in the character bazaar. 75% of toons for sale are Tengu alts or pre-Tengu starters.
This is the breakdown I hear from most people in regards to T3s.
Tengu: I do everything and do it well
Legion: Solo Explorer/C2-3 soloer
Protues: 1k dps cloaky or huge tank bralwer
Loki: Expensive recon/hac
That being said, it will be interesting to see how all ships will go when the revamp and new modules come along. Hopefully we get some balancing across the board and those useless ships get some loving. |
Skelee VI
Wraithguard.
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 17:46:00 -
[28] - Quote
the legion was red, cause it was about to kill a tengu! LOL
they should make it black."Black Legion".
How many of you who made comments about a a legion, have actually flown one?
I will fly a legion over tengu anyday. tengu is just a beefed up drake that likes to run away from battle.
Tengu = good ratting ship, thats all it is good for.
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
195
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 18:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Legion is crap, no way around it.
Only thing it does very well is neut. The 100MN AB-HAM Legion would like to speak to you.
How exactly is this supposed to work when the maximum range of HAMs on a Legion, not assuming Javelins, is about 25 km? You can't turn on a dime with the 100MN AB active and if you try to that mostly defeats the purpose of fitting one in the first place.
Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window. |
Sindjin Hawke
Drunk Chaos
Unprovoked Aggression
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 18:56:00 -
[30] - Quote
The Legion needs alaser buff. Capacitor use, damage and range. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin.
Black Legion.
417
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 19:37:00 -
[31] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
How exactly is this supposed to work when the maximum range of HAMs on a Legion, not assuming Javelins, is about 25 km? You can't turn on a dime with the 100MN AB active and if you try to that mostly defeats the purpose of fitting one in the first place.
You just go in, brawl w/e down until your buffer gets low, then use the 100MN AB to burn away and escape. |
Fredfredbug4
Kings of Kill
EVE Animal Control
272
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 20:06:00 -
[32] - Quote
I've never flown one (though I could in a day) and front what I've seen the Legion is a nice ship, but doesn't hold up to the other T3s.
Tengu: Awesome at everything, someone might need to put a leash around it though I don't think it's necessary.
Proteus: Can't do PVE for it's life, but will melt everything in PVP
Loki: Seeing less use do to the Hybrid buff, but manages to still be viable for it's heavy tackler roll.
Legion: Best looking ship in the game, that's about it. Anything it can do another T3 can do better.
|
Mfume Apocal
Origin.
Black Legion.
417
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 20:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Legion: Best looking ship in the game, that's about it. Anything it can do another T3 can do better.
Armor HAC. |
Aerich e'Kieron
Snuff Box
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:01:00 -
[34] - Quote
Wow. Morons. |
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
197
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 00:03:00 -
[35] - Quote
Arguably, if you look at this diagram by CCP, you could probably say the Legion is balanced in its intended position and the others, especially the Tengu are out of line.
In fact, in certain things, the T3's are actually on par or better than the T2 specialised variants anyway (Boostnig, Scanning), so you could argue they all need a nerf.
It just so happens with T3's that the Tengu towers so far above the rest that it makes the others look bad in comparison when they're not actually terrible. The current Drake and Hurricane do this across the entire BC lineup, which means you have to be careful about asking for buffs all the time, otherwise you run the risk of turning workable ships (Myrm, 'Binger in this example) into OP b*stards.
/Alternative point of view. |
Dato Koppla
Perkone
Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 00:23:00 -
[36] - Quote
T3 buff will **** all over HACs which already took a turd to the face from Tier 2 Battlecruisers that have 30% more tank, 10% more dps, for 60% less cost.
Sure T3s cost a bunch more but they already have better bonus and stats than HACs.. |
Sunviking
The Shining Knights
44
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 17:20:00 -
[37] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Jekto Altaris wrote:Please link a Tengu fit with 1200+ dps and not a 1200+ dps tank. Not possible, but this does 1000+ dps without implants and has 1000 dps tank. [Tengu, Tengu fit] Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile [Empty High slot] Gistum C-Type Medium Shield Booster Gistum C-Type Medium Shield Booster Estamel's Modified Adaptive Invulnerability Field Estamel's Modified Adaptive Invulnerability Field Estamel's Modified EM Ward Field Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System Medium Bay Loading Accelerator II Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I
Tengu can easily do 1200dps+ overheated, for quite a while too.
I got about 1043DPS on an EFT Tengu fit, using implants and Estamel's BCS, perfect skills too. |
Soon Shin
Caucasian Culture Club
Narwhals Ate My Duck
84
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 21:01:00 -
[38] - Quote
Sunviking wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Jekto Altaris wrote:Please link a Tengu fit with 1200+ dps and not a 1200+ dps tank. Not possible, but this does 1000+ dps without implants and has 1000 dps tank. [Tengu, Tengu fit] Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile [Empty High slot] Gistum C-Type Medium Shield Booster Gistum C-Type Medium Shield Booster Estamel's Modified Adaptive Invulnerability Field Estamel's Modified Adaptive Invulnerability Field Estamel's Modified EM Ward Field Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System Medium Bay Loading Accelerator II Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I Tengu can easily do 1200dps+ overheated, for quite a while too. I got about 1043DPS on an EFT Tengu fit, using implants and Estamel's BCS, perfect skills too.
You really should not balance things just because officier modules makes something powerful. Officer mods make EVERYTHING OP for a lot of isk.
|
adopt
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
389
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 21:42:00 -
[39] - Quote
The Legion needs something done to the capacitor use on its guns, its pretty difficult to get a cap stable Legion even with max skills. The damage needs to be tweaked to be in line with the other T3s relative to their HAC counterparts. Why fly a Legion when you can fly a slightly higher DPS Zealot for half the price.
Shadoo > Always remember to fit Cynosural Field Generator I, have 450 Liquid Ozone in your cargo and convo a friendly Pandemic Legion member if you have a capital or super capital ship tackled.
FREE XOLVE ~ THE HERO TEST NEEDS |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
198
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 07:57:00 -
[40] - Quote
adopt wrote:The Legion needs something done to the capacitor use on its guns, its pretty difficult to get a cap stable Legion even with max skills. The damage needs to be tweaked to be in line with the other T3s relative to their HAC counterparts. Why fly a Legion when you can fly a slightly higher DPS Zealot for half the price.
Cap stability is a crutch. Unless you intend to have all your mods on at all times then it's really not necessary.
I solo sanctums in my legion and it isn't cap stable. I pulse my repper and use a combination of speed and signature radius tank. I kill the smaller rats first because they ironically do more damage and I have to keep my rep running, but when those are gone I can leave my afterburner on and run the rep once every minute or so.
I've never ran out of cap.
Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
640
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 09:54:00 -
[41] - Quote
Soon Shin wrote:
You really should not balance things just because officier modules makes something powerful. Officer mods make EVERYTHING OP for a lot of isk.
I agree, but you don't really need officer gear to make Tengu OP. Normal fit with some faction modules does 750+ dps at 110km.
~ Elite forum PvP ~ |
Sh'toq
Stillwater Corporation
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 10:24:00 -
[42] - Quote
Darex Nidor wrote:Legion needs damage bonus for cov ops sub
^ This or another turret hardpoint if you ask me. |
Caellach Marellus
Aideron Robotics
Darkmatter Initiative
527
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 10:59:00 -
[43] - Quote
Sh'toq wrote:Darex Nidor wrote:Legion needs damage bonus for cov ops sub ^ This or another turret hardpoint if you ask me.
It gets a 4th with a PCM. The damage bonus however is greatly needed. That or a drone bay so you can make a ridiculously expensive Pilgrim.
Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Sh'toq
Stillwater Corporation
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 11:34:00 -
[44] - Quote
Caellach Marellus wrote:Sh'toq wrote:Darex Nidor wrote:Legion needs damage bonus for cov ops sub ^ This or another turret hardpoint if you ask me. It gets a 4th with a PCM. The damage bonus however is greatly needed. That or a drone bay so you can make a ridiculously expensive Pilgrim.
I know it does, but iirc the other T3's, apart from the damagebonus, have the ability to fit 5 weapons with the covert ops sub.
Nevermind, Legion can fit 5th too. |
Lost Greybeard
Fenrir's Dogs of War
Union 0f Revolution
51
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 18:48:00 -
[45] - Quote
To be fair, the Legion could suck like twice as much and I'd still be aiming for it because:
1- **** missiles
2- **** tracking your ammo when you're running around in w-space |
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