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Nunea2
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Posted - 2009.02.25 21:37:00 -
[1]
Zzz... I can't find any interesting way to pvp in EVE without first spending half my adult life preparing, then spending the rest of my adult life looking for an encounter where you don't get ****d by a fleet of 10x the size.
Zzz.. and QQ.
Isn't it time for EVE to have some interesting pvp for casuals? Since the launch, EVE pvp has been silly hardcore IMO. It's horrendously expensive, and there are few if any rewards. Where's the incentive, and where's the possibility to even participate in enjoyable pvp for a casual?
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crockett EXE
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Posted - 2009.02.25 21:52:00 -
[2]
It's hard to find when new and I'm going through the same thing. What I can suggest is find yourself a partner or two to fleet up with. That or if you go solo befriend the guys that kill you and offer yourself up to them as a disposable tackler. Eventually someone will take you up on the offer.
In reality that's your only value to a fleet as a noob it seems. What I've learned so far is the solo guy is always going to get ganked especially if he's new. Even if your fight starts out 1 on 1 it's likely that guy is there to bait you.
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Burkus Destounikus
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Posted - 2009.02.25 22:04:00 -
[3]
This is a fairly common complaint, and is only somewhat valid.
Are you able to solo PvP as a less than 1 month old char? Yes, but you have to know what the good systems are to do it in, and you have to know how to properly use your directional scanner. Are you going to often get ganked by a more experienced player or get a fleet dropped on you? Yes, often, but this happens if your a noob or a veteran (or somewhere in between like me). You'll need prob at least a month of PvP focused skill trng to be able to win against anything other than an afk miner.
Solo PvP is tough for everyone, vets and noobs alike - you're going to lose lots of ships and ISK (at least initially), so spend the first month building a war chest so that you can afford to stay in the game longer and gain experience.
Bottom line - this isn't a game that lends itself well to popping in every now and then, getting a quick fight and leaving, certainly not for a noob. It does require some experience and time, but not as much as you'd think.
Suggestion - buy a bunch of you races best T1 frigates (Minmatar ftw), fit them out, and go out and lose them in a hurry. You'll learn quick what you can take and what you can't, and what skills you should train up. Good luck.
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Baka Lakadaka
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.02.26 02:31:00 -
[4]
We take new players, as young as a couple of weeks old and put them through our PvP Basic class. You don't have to join our corp to take part - it's a public course that you pay a relatively small fee for.
Some of the comment's we get back are like "wow that was the most PvP fun I've had ever".
It's not expensive. Students fly T1 frigates for the duration of the course, including the practical which is a 0.0 roaming gang under the direction of one of our experienced FCs. Some of the support pilots (Agony pilots) will fly T2 frigs like Covert Ops or Interceptors for specific roles, but nothing larger than a destroyer hull (for the Interdictor pilots).
Check the website in my signature for more info.
______________________
Isn't it time you learned to fight back? Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University.
Now Recruiting. |
Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
DEATH'S LEGION
Red Box.
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Posted - 2009.02.26 04:12:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 26/02/2009 04:13:22
It is a bit harder in terms of skilling/leveling up than other games for sure, but then again victory tastes so much sweeter that way.
Thats actually the great thing in eve pvp, if you are experienced you can beat much better skilled/leveled players, not really possible to that extend in other games.
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Rayban Aviator
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Posted - 2009.02.26 06:54:00 -
[6]
If you want 1v1 frigs, ask Killer Rasta about it, I'm quite sure he will accept, t1 or t2.
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Solar Chase
Omega Fleet Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.02.26 13:15:00 -
[7]
I will also recommend attending Agony Unleashed PvP Basic course. It is well designed and is specifically tailored to the needs of a PvP beginner.
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Pater Peccavi
Minmatar
Tactical Initiative
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Posted - 2009.02.26 16:50:00 -
[8]
Join FW. 2 reasons for this: You get easy access to fleets, and you get a lot more frig duels.
I had used several EVE trial accounts before, because I really wanted to love the game, but it never got my blood pumping. I eventually bought an account, just so I could train skills for longer than 2 weeks, but it still didn't do much for me, and I took almost a year long hiatus after 2 months. I came back when EVE offered 5 free days, joined FW, and finally found what I had been missing: PvP. FW makes it so much more accessible. My first night in FW, I was already in a fleet (and got blown up, but that's part of PvP).
Meanwhile, people fly a lot smaller in FW, and if you encounter enemy frigs on a low sec gate, you can engage without worrying about gate guns, which is a huge plus.
(And every once in a blue moon, you get kills like the one that is currently in my sig  )
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Nunea2
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Posted - 2009.02.26 17:08:00 -
[9]
That course does sound pretty cool. And I'll look closer at FW. Initially I reactivated my account to try out FW, but then I was recommended to skip it because people claimed it was boring.
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Furious Foot
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Posted - 2009.02.26 17:16:00 -
[10]
The most common mistake new players being interested in PvP seem to make is the fact that they were probably mission runners...
Great - you are 2 months old, you have a raven and can solo lvl 4's, slaughtering hundreds of npc's in no time - time to go step further and try PvP.
The problem with that is, that your skills wont be what you need for Pvp and moreover, playing a singleplayergame with internet access (PVE) has left you with the strange impression that you could successfully solo PvP.
Eve is an MMO - ppl will interact and work together, be in corps, form gangs - or to say it with other words - you just can't lonely walk around in a gang area being a chubby kid with a butterknife expecting to own anyone whilst the bloods and crips are having drive-by shootings around you.
Considering the price - as a starter, you should use T1 frigates and fly with a gang - a T1 frig including fittings is around a mill - either mine a bit, do a mission or ask someone in a corp for a bit of isk. Running and salvaging L4's for an hour can easily give you what? 30-40 mill isk - so one hour of carebearing gives you 30-40 PvP ships - I'd call that cheap...
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Tybalt Usra
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Posted - 2009.02.26 17:18:00 -
[11]
The ability to find fights and the ability to get kills while outnumbered is what really seperates the good pvp'ers from the average plebs.
The setups and the piloting are only a part of being a successfull eve pvp'er.
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Saaya Illirie
Caldari
Core Element
Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.02.26 18:07:00 -
[12]
 Originally by: Baka Lakadaka
We take new players, as young as a couple of weeks old and put them through our PvP Basic class. You don't have to join our corp to take part - it's a public course that you pay a relatively small fee for.
Some of the comment's we get back are like "wow that was the most PvP fun I've had ever".
It's not expensive. Students fly T1 frigates for the duration of the course, including the practical which is a 0.0 roaming gang under the direction of one of our experienced FCs. Some of the support pilots (Agony pilots) will fly T2 frigs like Covert Ops or Interceptors for specific roles, but nothing larger than a destroyer hull (for the Interdictor pilots).
Check the website in my signature for more info.
I'll vouch for Agony Empire. While I myself never took a class (I got my own experience first hand by being 2.5m SP in Stain) I know a lot of people who did, and learned a LOT. All you really need to do is free up a day and prepare for a decently long training session, you will learn pretty much every basic you could ever need to know about PvP from these guys and get a good roam out of it. Agony Empire are by far the best, most experienced PvP training group in the game.
As for fun PvP for casuals... well EVE skill training is designed for casuals so that's really not a valid complaint. Use EVEMon to put Assault Frigates in the works to train, they're pretty cheap and effective, then find a Faction Warfare/Merc Corp to join and duke it out outside of Jita or in FW Lowsec. I suggest going for an Ishkur myself, but all the AF's except Caldari and the Khanid one are pretty decent (in the case of Caldari, you're better off flying a Crow).
Suffer not the insufferable to live. |
General Coochie
The Bastards
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Posted - 2009.02.26 18:27:00 -
[13]
Then you are doing it wrong.
Vigil and Caracal, Duo PvP
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Cupdeez
Out of Order
Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2009.02.26 19:02:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Nunea2
Zzz... I can't find any interesting way to pvp in EVE without first spending half my adult life preparing, then spending the rest of my adult life looking for an encounter where you don't get ****d by a fleet of 10x the size.
Zzz.. and QQ.
Isn't it time for EVE to have some interesting pvp for casuals? Since the launch, EVE pvp has been silly hardcore IMO. It's horrendously expensive, and there are few if any rewards. Where's the incentive, and where's the possibility to even participate in enjoyable pvp for a casual?
Actually we always have good fights.. 1v1's, 5v5's, 3vs8's, and 20vs20's... We bother to engage 20vs3 fight. Although we did do a 5vs15..
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Kir'ian
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.02.26 20:30:00 -
[15]
I'm currently not really into PVP because of real life time constraints, but I do think about it and try to read as many "beginner PVP" topics as I see. I find it frustrating that many responses are either "you PVE'r don't have the right skills", or "it's not the fit but the pilot".
Okay.
So these seemingly opposite points are probably correct from the perspective of their posters, but perhaps they could elaborate some? What skills, presumably to fit "pvp" type equipment, should new PVPrs look into training? What *player* skills should one look into learning (orbiting at a range, aligning to a gate, fitting ammo or resist based on intel?).
I applaud the various training corps out there. That's a cool idea. But I'm sure there are many like me who couldn't spend an entire day in a class. Maybe up the prices, use your own corpmates as "drone targets", and spread the class over a few days? Maybe you some already do this?
Yeah... tl;dr. DOH!
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis
Mean Coalition
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Posted - 2009.02.26 20:54:00 -
[16]
The better player behind the skill points wins, as a general rule.
Don't ever be discouraged by skill points.
***
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space
Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2
WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Easley Thames
The Maverick Navy
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.27 01:25:00 -
[17]
The key is to join the right corp so there are always ops you can jump right into. Many corps will welcome t1 cruisers and even t1 frigs if fitted properly. Look for corps with training programs in particular.
The loss from a t1 frig or cruiser even fully t2 fit is recoverable in 4-5 belts of 0.0 ratting, or a single lvl 4 mission. When we get BS rats in lowsec that will make isk even more accessible for corps without 0.0 access or the desire to run missions.
As for "rewards" a real pvp'er (IMO) should fight for the sake of fighting. If pvp isn't fun you sure as heck could make more money doing something else. When I engaged my first targets I know I felt my heart beating. The chance of loss made it more exciting.
You get great drops sometimes but pvp for me is always about the killmail / victory / fight. The occasional officer drop is great but most targets are not fit like motsu mission runners.
If you must have rewards, go to faction warfare. It's easy to just join a FW corp and start x'ing up in whatever you can bring. I'm no expert on loyalty points but I understand in addition to titles / ranks you can earn something of value. |
Pater Peccavi
Minmatar
Tactical Initiative
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Posted - 2009.02.27 01:33:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Easley Thames
If you must have rewards, go to faction warfare. It's easy to just join a FW corp and start x'ing up in whatever you can bring. I'm no expert on loyalty points but I understand in addition to titles / ranks you can earn something of value.
Eh, not really. I mean, the tags from Plex ships can be worth some money, but that's not really a reward for PvP, its just ratting by a different name (and with much less reward). FW is a moneysink.
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Cors
It's A Trap
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Posted - 2009.02.27 01:49:00 -
[19]
The thing is this..
Most PVP is about defending space. NOT about PVP.
It's about keeping hostiles out of a system. Or about killing hostiles in their own systems to reduce morale so you can attack the system.
that's what most pvp is about.
The problem with this is winning is more important then a "Fun fight".
The goal is to defend/drive you out.
Piracy is a little different, but it's similar. It's corps wanting to say they closed a system down, or locked a gate down or whatever.
The only real solo pvp you'll find is from people who are very patient and find JUST the right target to kill. Or people to go around talking in local asking for duals.
if you want easy simple fun, go to test, and you'll find dozens of folks who'll want to duel with you for fun, and to test out setups.
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Karrade Krise
Galatic P0RN Starz
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Posted - 2009.02.27 01:53:00 -
[20]
If you can't have fun while you PVP then you're doing it wrong...
Originally by: CCP Whisper
Boo hoo. Cry some more.
Whisper is now officially my hero. |
Dro Nee
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Posted - 2009.02.27 04:45:00 -
[21]
Originally by: General Coochie
Then you are doing it wrong.
This.
PvP is fine. The problem is you.
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Inara Subaka
Caldari
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.02.27 07:10:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Karrade Krise
If you can't have fun while you PVP then you're doing it wrong...
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Ka Jolo
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.02.27 12:30:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Kir'ian
I find it frustrating that many responses are either "you PVE'r don't have the right skills", or "it's not the fit but the pilot".
Okay.
So these seemingly opposite points are probably correct from the perspective of their posters, but perhaps they could elaborate some? What skills, presumably to fit "pvp" type equipment, should new PVPrs look into training? What *player* skills should one look into learning (orbiting at a range, aligning to a gate, fitting ammo or resist based on intel?).
You PVE'ers don't have the right skills. In PVE, there's more room for the "bigger is better" mentality; do level 2's in a cruiser, level 3's in a battlecruiser, etc. So PvE'ers tend to quickly train for newer and bigger ships. You can look up missions and know what your targets' damage types and resistances will be, so you refit for each mission. Your targets seem impervious to cap warfare, and lack in creativity.
In PvP, however, bigger is often worse. Bigger is more of a target, bigger is slower, and bigger has a harder time tracking. You're often better off making smaller also meaner and faster than making smaller bigger. You generally have little idea what your target is going to be or how he'll be fit, so you have to focus on your own strengths and design a strategy around those. Your target can be crafty, employing all kinds of EWAR against you, and you need to have a plan if they do. And not least, in PvP your target will often try to run away, so you need to be able to scram and web.
It's not the fit, but the pilot. There are a plethora of real-life skills that affect the outcome of PvP: being able to quickly locate a target, understanding pilot psychology enough to cause the other pilot to engage when he should not (through baiting behavior, smack, etc.), keeping calm under fire, knowing when to go for the drones and when to go for the ship, being able to quickly evaluate a potential target's capabilities and select a successful strategy for dealing with them, knowing where to fight what (safe spot, planet, belt, gate, station, POS), distinguishing between a ratter or miner and bait, etc. In any given ship, a good PvP'er will bring this package of skills to find, engage, and defeat target after target, while a poor PvP'er will be looking fruitlessly, chasing blindly, and losing clumsily. An inexperienced pilot can buy a character with all the right skills, and be handed a stable of ships with all the best setups, and still lose fight after fight.
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Dasalt Istgut
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:44:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Dasalt Istgut on 27/02/2009 15:50:26
In PVP an FC is someone who can make a command decision, assess odds of a fight and determine strategy. This person has to know every ship, common fits for said ship, understand ewar and mobility and all PVP mechanics, etc. A scout is someone who locates prey, a tackler is someone who puts themself in harms way (intentional primary often) to capture prey.
When you're solo you need to be all of those things. So you can always be successful solo, even with crap skills in crappy ships, so long as you have those things covered. Obviously it gets easier the higher SP you get. That being said, solo is much harder, without scouts you're much more vulnerable and in general, its much more satisfying so take that for whatever its worth.
Editing for clarification: What I'm suggesting here is that if you don't know the modules for PVP - rather than trying to solo PVP, join faction warfare or a PVP corp/training corp and learn with others via observation. Have a feeling if you go out and solo PVP you're going to wind up an easy kill for someone and get discouraged - don't consider solo PVP as generally representative of PVP in Eve.
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Valandril
Caldari
Isks R Us
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:48:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Valandril on 27/02/2009 15:49:02
Solo pvp doens't really get that easier when you gain sp, they will only let you to fly new ships.
What matter is how good you are.
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Dasalt Istgut
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:52:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Dasalt Istgut on 27/02/2009 15:57:24
Originally by: Valandril
Edited by: Valandril on 27/02/2009 15:49:02
Solo pvp doens't really get that easier when you gain sp, they will only let you to fly new ships.
What matter is how good you are.
Sure it does because the odds of you winning increases when you can fly better ships and fit better gear. Are you going to tell me its not easier to land kills in a T2 fit curse than a t1 fit rifter? Being versatile and hitting harder and having better support skills means fights that you would've otherwise walked away from are fights you can now win.
Edited to add : What you're saying is true if you're talking 12m SP vs 20m SP. Its not really true if you're talking about 1m SP vs 12m SP. There is a 'competancy point' you have to get to.
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Tybalt Usra
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Posted - 2009.02.27 19:29:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Dasalt Istgut
Are you going to tell me its not easier to land kills in a T2 fit curse than a t1 fit rifter?
I'll tell you exactly that, because it actually is. People like Kane Rizzel pvp in rifters a lot for a reason.
Rifters don't spook people out of system or into safespots, T2 cruisers do. Even other T2 cruiser pilots will be wary of engaging a curse.
Flying a rifter your not gonna be killing battleships, but for every battleship kill the curse lands the rifter just had 3 or 4 frigate dogfights.
Seriosuly, do not underestimate low skill point req ships, I've seen uncountable numbers of ****y interceptor pilots get there ass handed to them by a talented T1 frig pilot.
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Dasalt Istgut
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Posted - 2009.02.28 02:51:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Dasalt Istgut on 28/02/2009 02:52:41
Originally by: Tybalt Usra
Originally by: Dasalt Istgut
Are you going to tell me its not easier to land kills in a T2 fit curse than a t1 fit rifter?
I'll tell you exactly that, because it actually is. People like Kane Rizzel pvp in rifters a lot for a reason.
Rifters don't spook people out of system or into safespots, T2 cruisers do. Even other T2 cruiser pilots will be wary of engaging a curse.
Flying a rifter your not gonna be killing battleships, but for every battleship kill the curse lands the rifter just had 3 or 4 frigate dogfights.
Seriosuly, do not underestimate low skill point req ships, I've seen uncountable numbers of ****y interceptor pilots get there ass handed to them by a talented T1 frig pilot.
A t1 fit rifter might be ok for can baiting in empire, it'll get one volleyed by anything that has both guns and ammunition on it and isn't flown by an idiot. I guess it depends on the reason why you PVP but for me, I want to kill someone who is fighting back.
And as a side note you're making my point for me. For a rifter to take out the interceptor, the interceptor has to be bad and the T1 frig has to be excellent. Can try to take any t1 frig against my taranis but you will lose every single time.
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Vara Gild
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Posted - 2009.02.28 09:21:00 -
[29]
Just posted about this in my own thread about solo noob pvp with a rifter.
Here is a link to the fights I had fight video
and here is my thread with a few more details Linkage
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Lord DevilHanzo
Gallente
The Crane Technique
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Posted - 2009.02.28 12:34:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Nunea2
Zzz... I can't find any interesting way to pvp in EVE without first spending half my adult life preparing, then spending the rest of my adult life looking for an encounter where you don't get ****d by a fleet of 10x the size.
Be smart, grab a rifter, go into low sec, make a safe spot within scan range of the highest concentration of belts, get to know your directional scanner and pick your fights. Simples.
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