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The US Dollar vs Euro payment

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Oni Triad	Posted - 2009.02.25 23:07:00 - [1] Simple question : Why does CCP intend to charge 14.95 euro? This is wrong. Why? Because 1 US dollar =/= 1 Euro World of Warcraft, Age of Conan, Warhammer OnLine (just to name a few) use standard conversion like 14.99 US Dollars or 12.99 Euros What the hell CCP?
Lucas Tigh East Khanid Trading Khanid Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2009.02.25 23:08:00 - [2] Maybe they're bitter about Iceland's economy going the way of your trolling skills.
Oni Triad	Posted - 2009.02.25 23:09:00 - [3] I'm gonna laugh when they will touch the GTC forum with something like "700 mil Isk normal fee / 850 mil Isk for EU players" -_-
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.02.25 23:09:00 - [4] So just because other companies use dynamic conversion means CCP has to as well? Yes, my name is Pompous. Yes, this has been designed for maximum deliberate effect. Sweet disclaimer eh
Lucas Tigh East Khanid Trading Khanid Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2009.02.25 23:14:00 - [5] Edited by: Lucas Tigh on 25/02/2009 23:13:59 Originally by: Captain Pompous So just because other companies use dynamic conversion means CCP has to as well? After seeing your post, I am suddenly compelled to vote for you in the next CSM election. Edit: formatting fail
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.02.25 23:14:00 - [6] Originally by: Lucas Tigh Edited by: Lucas Tigh on 25/02/2009 23:13:59 Originally by: Captain Pompous So just because other companies use dynamic conversion means CCP has to as well? After seeing your post, I am suddenly compelled to vote for you in the next CSM election. Edit: formatting fail Smashing :) The mind control works! Yes, my name is Pompous. Yes, this has been designed for maximum deliberate effect. Sweet disclaimer eh
Ms Delerium	Posted - 2009.02.25 23:19:00 - [7] Originally by: Oni Triad I'm gonna laugh when they will touch the GTC forum with something like "700 mil Isk normal fee / 850 mil Isk for EU players" -_- you obviously dont get it. There is a universal currency for eve players: the ISK. But we are talking about real life here. 1Ç is more than 1$, so the 14.95$ should be converted into 11Ç or something like that.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.02.25 23:20:00 - [8] Originally by: Oni Triad Simple question : Why does CCP intend to charge 14.95 euro? This is wrong. Why? Because 1 US dollar =/= 1 Euro World of Warcraft, Age of Conan, Warhammer OnLine (just to name a few) use standard conversion like 14.99 US Dollars or 12.99 Euros What the hell CCP? here is a thread which may help you This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
Akor Flandres	Posted - 2009.02.26 00:16:00 - [9] VAT
Strikeclone The Steel Ravens	Posted - 2009.02.26 00:24:00 - [10] EU players are charges around 40% more than the rest of the world because of the EU VAT rules which state that certain services provided through the internet elecctronically are subject to VAT which is assesed at the rate of the consumers country. As a UK player my VAT rate is 15% (reverting to 17.5% at the end of the year) which means I would be over charged by at least twice my VAT rate over and above the rest of the world. Rather than post on Eve forums and thuse receive the obligatory "blah blah your a troll blah blah" brainless reply I petitioned CCP and as a result have also sent an inquiry to HMRC regarding the EU VAT laws application to online gaming when no real money is involved (ie gambling). "Peace through the application of superior firepower"
Agent Unknown Caldari Fist of Eargon	Posted - 2009.02.26 00:32:00 - [11] You could always pay in USD...convert through Paypal then send it through. Easy enough...right? At least, I think that method works. ----------------------------------- "What can go wrong, will go wrong."
Jacharian Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.26 00:44:00 - [12] The VAT-thing is kinda funny, despite the fact that it's a virtually unheard of practice quite a few people simply bend over and assume it's the true reason. I'm not going to be dragged into a flame-war over a few dollars, but come on :-) It's more likely that the powers that be at CCP have looked at whether lowering the EU price or increasing the US price would increase their total expected earnings, and come up with a negative. This is a game about cut-throat business though, so why not?
Strikeclone The Steel Ravens	Posted - 2009.02.26 02:20:00 - [13] Originally by: Agent Unknown You could always pay in USD...convert through Paypal then send it through. Easy enough...right? At least, I think that method works. Unfortunately its not as simple as this, CCP is saying that the price increase for EU residents is due to the fact of living in the EU and EU VAT laws. It has nothing to do with the currency used to pay subscription fees and everything to do with location of the player. When asked why there is such a large difference between the amount EU players are forced to pay and the amount of VAT they may be required to pay CCP will only say its down to exchange rates. This to me rings hollow, if online gaming such as Eve and WoW and other mmorpgs are subject to EU VAT laws regarding electronic services then how is it that both WoW and LotRo are actually cheaper for EU players paying in pounds/Euros than it is for the rest of the world paying in US Dollars. Surely then the same should hold true for Eve...something is very wrong here I feel and I eagerly await the reply from the HMRC... "Peace through the application of superior firepower"
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.26 02:24:00 - [14] If you work in the Euro, you make Euros. Pay in damn Euros. If you work in the US, you make $. Pay in $ GTF over it. If you want to find your own method to take advantage of this, feel free. --
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.02.26 03:13:00 - [15] Damnit...why has no one posted this yet? Sig is now EVE related. Happy mods?
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2009.02.26 03:25:00 - [16] Originally by: Strikeclone Unfortunately its not as simple as this, CCP is saying that the price increase for EU residents is due to the fact of living in the EU and EU VAT laws. It has nothing to do with the currency used to pay subscription fees and everything to do with location of the player. When asked why there is such a large difference between the amount EU players are forced to pay and the amount of VAT they may be required to pay CCP will only say its down to exchange rates. This to me rings hollow, if online gaming such as Eve and WoW and other mmorpgs are subject to EU VAT laws regarding electronic services then how is it that both WoW and LotRo are actually cheaper for EU players paying in pounds/Euros than it is for the rest of the world paying in US Dollars. Surely then the same should hold true for Eve...something is very wrong here I feel and I eagerly await the reply from the HMRC... Interesting, post updates when you get it. As for WoW/LotRo/WAR etc, they have respective US and EU divisions afaik. EVE = Iceland (albeit servers in England, we're talking about the company/transactions here). I'm guessing that's why VAT kicks in and messes things up for EVE but not in the other games? Originally by: Marcus Druallis If you work in the Euro, you make Euros. Pay in damn Euros. If you work in the US, you make $. Pay in $ GTF over it. If you want to find your own method to take advantage of this, feel free. Ignorance ftw? Not all europeans have Euro, hell not even all EU-members has it. -
Jacharian Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.26 03:29:00 - [17] Originally by: Marcus Druallis If you work in the Euro, you make Euros. Pay in damn Euros. If you work in the US, you make $. Pay in $ GTF over it. If you want to find your own method to take advantage of this, feel free. I LOL'ed.
Agent Unknown Caldari Fist of Eargon	Posted - 2009.02.26 03:54:00 - [18] Originally by: Khemul Zula Damnit...why has no one posted this yet? Your smileys are effective, if not crude ----------------------------------- "What can go wrong, will go wrong."
Jhoria Englside	Posted - 2009.02.26 04:23:00 - [19] so you will honestly point out in other MMO's you get off easy yet in this game you end up paying more, as a change...and your complaining? GB2WoW for cheap subs. Srius Bisnis
EliteSlave Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.02.26 04:59:00 - [20] Originally by: Strikeclone EU players are charges around 40% more than the rest of the world because of the EU VAT rules which state that certain services provided through the internet elecctronically are subject to VAT which is assesed at the rate of the consumers country. As a UK player my VAT rate is 15% (reverting to 17.5% at the end of the year) which means I would be over charged by at least twice my VAT rate over and above the rest of the world. Rather than post on Eve forums and thuse receive the obligatory "blah blah your a troll blah blah" brainless reply I petitioned CCP and as a result have also sent an inquiry to HMRC regarding the EU VAT laws application to online gaming when no real money is involved (ie gambling). To bad the HMRC has no say in the VAT being charged to you since the VAT is charged in the operating country, ie: Iceland. thus you get charged the VAT of Iceland not the UK.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.02.26 05:09:00 - [21] CCP should have individual, different subscription prices for each country of the world, based on a country's economic wealth. _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Strikeclone The Steel Ravens	Posted - 2009.02.26 06:08:00 - [22] Originally by: EliteSlave To bad the HMRC has no say in the VAT being charged to you since the VAT is charged in the operating country, ie: Iceland. thus you get charged the VAT of Iceland not the UK. Incorrect. According to EU VAT laws VAT is charged by the company providing the service, but the amount payable is charged at the VAT rate of the consumer and is payable by the provider to the consumers taxman. So HMRC will have a very great deal to do with any VAT related monies due to them. The first point of argument regarding Eve and EU VAT laws is that CCP charges approximately 40% more to EU players compared to the rest of the world. In raw dollars this means that a non EU player paying monthly will pay over a year $179.4 where as an EU player paying monthly over a year will pay $228.16. A difference of $48.7 or about ú34 The second point of argument is whether or not Eve-online or indeed any online pc game is VAT liable according to EU VAT laws,which again is something I have asked HMRC to clarify. This matter is very serious in the minds of many EU players especially given the current finacial situation of many households. As such I have actually researched this topic in some depth,I suggest anyone interested in it or on commenting on it do the same "Peace through the application of superior firepower"
Tyrenical Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.02.26 06:11:00 - [23] It's all worthless if ya can't trade it in for Gold or Silver.
Lothros Andastar Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.26 06:38:00 - [24] Maybe its because CCP wanna make Money, like, I dunno, a Capitalist Company? The Differences in Price are due to Market Forces causing the Exchange Rates to change. That isn't CCP's Fault. If you dont like it, then f--k off and play a Shi-ty Sharded Game like WoW
Herring Caldari Industrial Accidents Incorporated	Posted - 2009.02.26 09:00:00 - [25] Wait till CCP starts charging US citizens more because the dollar is imploding. All hail Obama.
Strikeclone The Steel Ravens	Posted - 2009.02.26 09:19:00 - [26] Originally by: Lothros Andastar Maybe its because CCP wanna make Money, like, I dunno, a Capitalist Company? The Differences in Price are due to Market Forces causing the Exchange Rates to change. That isn't CCP's Fault. If you dont like it, then f--k off and play a Shi-ty Sharded Game like WoW Another pointless reply made by someone ignorant of the basic facts of the topic under debate. Guess your afraid to open your eyes lest someone pokes them out? "Peace through the application of superior firepower"
Anson Halleck Lost Eden	Posted - 2009.02.26 10:07:00 - [27] Originally by: Oni Triad Simple question : Why does CCP intend to charge 14.95 euro? This is wrong. Why? Because 1 US dollar =/= 1 Euro World of Warcraft, Age of Conan, Warhammer OnLine (just to name a few) use standard conversion like 14.99 US Dollars or 12.99 Euros What the hell CCP? As an EU citizen, you have to pay VAT (Value Added Tax). VAT in Iceland is one of highest in Europe, 24.5% Which means most of exchange rate difference between USD and EUR is used by VAT. Other online games could have EU HQ in different country, where VAT is lower (some EU countries have VAT around 15%, even though average is about 19%). It always amazes me, how many ppl have no idea about VAT system, even though they pay this tax many times a day in price of all products and services.
Beor0d Congregatio Majesta Empire	Posted - 2009.02.26 10:12:00 - [28] Simple: Don't buy your GTC in Europe, buy it on shatteredcrystal.com _______________________ hmmm....
TigerXtrm BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.02.26 11:30:00 - [29] I believe the VAT is something CCP can't get out of, hence the difference in prices. However it's easy enough to get around. As long as time codes are sold in America you can pay for your game in Dollars, period. Just buy your timecodes at an American retailer and use those codes, you'll save a ton. I pay like 27 euro's for that 60 day timecard which usualy would cost me about 35 euro's.
Xanaii	Posted - 2009.02.26 18:18:00 - [30] Originally by: Anson Halleck As an EU citizen, you have to pay VAT (Value Added Tax). VAT in Iceland is one of highest in Europe, 24.5% Which means most of exchange rate difference between USD and EUR is used by VAT. Other online games could have EU HQ in different country, where VAT is lower (some EU countries have VAT around 15%, even though average is about 19%). Yeah but CCP only pay 18% corporate tax on the money they make. One of (if not THE) lowest corporate tax rate in the world.

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