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Dethl0k
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 13:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Everyone is back to missioning and that is so boring. You are gonna lose alot of subscriptions on this move. Not even shiny pilots can find a fleet how do you think the guy in the hyperion is doin finding a fleet, you ruined the only group PVE that was halfway enjoyable. You think people are gonna back to missioning after making incursion isk? no they will just quit. you should have nerfed a little at a time but this was way to extreme. No one can find a fleet how are we supposed to keep our mains in ships if we cant make isk on our ALTS you killed it |

Florestan Bronstein
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
525
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 13:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
maybe we can finally go back to the "move lvl4s to low-sec" agenda?
edit: I was told people run incursions because it is so fun to do PvE in a group and not because of the ridiculously high payouts (?) |

Ryvuk
Federation of Free Miners
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 13:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
After CCP last summer, I was done, still paid for subscriptions but then some friends said, look at this incursions are good isk, we should have done them when ccp nerf missions in the beginning. We can make isk and gate camps on alts in low sec and still have isk left over, so Eve pulled me back in.
When CCP looked at Incursions they should have looked at how they were used. New players go to HQ's and Assult fleets, why not increase those payouts, one they are more dangerous and two difficult to maintain a large fleet. These activities only increased players willing to die in thier ships and enjoy large fleet activites. I know of about seven people who went to null sec after having fun in incursions, who never thought of doing it before. |

Angel Lust
Vikinghall
43
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 13:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
It was fun as long as it lasted....  I am back to lvl4's now... (and some mining) Mutch easyer.... dont have to move long distances , wait for hours in waitingsquads and... lvl4's gives allmost the same isk now...  |

beor oranes
Nex Exercitus Raiden.
25
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 13:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Eve is dying once again.
It's about time CCP did something about the payouts and how easy VG's were. VG's weren't fun they were boring and monotonous. Assaults and HQ's are more fun, always have been. |

Drakos Vala
Cold Moon Destruction
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 13:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lots of threads on the topic, nice to have another one 
CCP makes a change, people moan, people adapt, life goes on, minimal subscription loss.
|

Ravnik
The Phoenix Rising P R I M E
13
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 13:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Eve managed before incursions. Its not like they have removed them completely. PPL are just whining because now they wont make stupid amounts of isk as easily.
After a failed career as a comedian i decided to take up piloting. My flying techniques have got more laughs than my jokes ever did.....
|

Katarina Reid
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
169
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 13:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dethl0k wrote:Everyone is back to missioning and that is so boring. You think people are gonna back to missioning after making incursion isk? no they will just quit.
so are people back to missions or are they quiting?
|

Dethl0k
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 13:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
To be honest I dont know if it was a good move or not, Im not a game deisigner but all i know is me and my buddys would run incursions once week to fund our mains and not at this rate ill have to do PVE non stop to be able to afford my loses screw that id rather just get back into BF3 or something |

Florestan Bronstein
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
525
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 13:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Florestan Bronstein wrote:edit: I was told people run incursions because it is so fun to do PvE in a group and not because of the ridiculously high payouts (?) Adam Smith had some important insights into the economics of labor markets which form the foundation for what we call today the theory of "compensating wage differentials":
Wealth of Nations wrote:THE whole of the advantages and disadvantages of the different employments of labour and stock must, in the same neighbourhood, be either perfectly equal or continually tending to equality. If in the same neighbourhood, there was any employment evidently either more or less advantageous than the rest, so many people would crowd into it in the one case, and so many would desert it in the other, that its advantages would soon return to the level of other employments. This at least would be the case in a society where things were left to follow their natural course, where there was perfect liberty, and where every man was perfectly free both to choose what occupation he thought proper, and to change it as often as he thought proper. Every man's interest would prompt him to seek the advantageous, and to shun the disadvantageous employment.
[...]
First, the wages of labour vary with the ease or hardship, the cleanliness or dirtiness, the honourableness or dishonourableness of the employment. Thus in most places, take the year round, a journeyman tailor earns less than a journeyman weaver. His work is much easier. A journeyman weaver earns less than a journeyman smith. His work is not always easier, but it is much cleanlier. A journeyman blacksmith, though an artificer, seldom earns so much in twelve hours as a collier, who is only a labourer, does in eight. His work is not quite so dirty, is less dangerous, and is carried on in daylight, and above ground. Honour makes a great part of the reward of all honourable professions. In point of pecuniary gain, all things considered, they are generally under-recompensed, as I shall endeavour to show by and by. Disgrace has the contrary effect. The trade of a butcher is a brutal and an odious business; but it is in most places more profitable than the greater part of common trades. The most detestable of all employments, that of public executioner, is, in proportion to the quantity of work done, better paid than any common trade whatever.
Hunting and fishing, the most important employments of mankind in the rude state of society, become in its advanced state their most agreeable amusements, and they pursue for pleasure what they once followed from necessity. In the advanced state of society, therefore, they are all very poor people who follow as a trade what other people pursue as a pastime. Fishermen have been so since the time of Theocritus. A poacher is everywhere a very poor man in Great Britain. In countries where the rigour of the law suffers no poachers, the licensed hunter is not in a much better condition. The natural taste for those employments makes more people follow them than can live comfortably by them, and the produce of their labour, in proportion to its quantity, comes always too cheap to market to afford anything but the most scanty subsistence to the labourers.
Disagreeableness and disgrace affect the profits of stock in the same manner as the wages of labour. The keeper of an inn or tavern, who is never master of his own house, and who is exposed to the brutality of every drunkard, exercises neither a very agreeable nor a very creditable business. But there is scarce any common trade in which a small stock yields so great a profit.
It is obvious that in the equilibrium of a free labor market un-fun activities would have to pay very well - by conjecture very fun activities (such as group pve according to incursion runners) should have relatively bad payouts. If fun activities pay well (cet. paribus) something is obviously amiss.
All CCP did is move the labor market in EVE (which is dominated by artificial constraints and a completely inelastic demand for labor) closer to the equilibrium we would see in a more realistic/free market. |

Sigurd Sig Hansen
Hedion University Amarr Empire
28
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 13:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
[quote=Florestan Bronstein]maybe we can finally go back to the "move lvl4s to low-sec" agenda
edit: I was told people run incursions because it is so fun to do PvE in a group and not because of the ridiculously high payouts (?)[/quote
Yeah the lvl 4 hate started up a lot faster than I thought it would. Maybe the should remove the tech moons next instead of nerfing high sec more eh? Put those in 0.0 that say they want them removed to the test.
Oh and even if you DID get them to remove lvl 4s to low/0.0 you wont get the bears to go there so you can get easy kills. Theyll just leave the game or start mining. Face it nullbears youre never gonna get ppl to go where they dont WANT to go. This is supposed to be ENJOYABLE for US too. And if its not, we leave. Simple as that.
Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game |

Sigurd Sig Hansen
Hedion University Amarr Empire
28
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 13:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ryvuk wrote:After CCP last summer, I was done, still paid for subscriptions but then some friends said, look at this incursions are good isk, we should have done them when ccp nerf missions in the beginning. We can make isk and gate camps on alts in low sec and still have isk left over, so Eve pulled me back in.
When CCP looked at Incursions they should have looked at how they were used. New players go to HQ's and Assult fleets, why not increase those payouts, one they are more dangerous and two difficult to maintain a large fleet. These activities only increased players willing to die in thier ships and enjoy large fleet activites. I know of about seven people who went to null sec after having fun in incursions, who never thought of doing it before.
Because CCP using a whole year or half a year to make fashions for avatars was what we wanted not more ships, not more ways to exploit ship's strengths and weaknesses and kill or be killed. I am glad I can station walk and dress.
At least mining is getting better and some of those guys complaining will be able to make more mining. I want to make isk in a group. CCP why, why change that. Sleepers, Complexes they don't need groups you can use alts. I want to have fun in a fleet, making isk so I can lose more ships.
Man this is the only game I can think of where ppl WANT raiding :p
Dethl0k wrote:To be honest I dont know if it was a good move or not, Im not a game deisigner but all i know is me and my buddys would run incursions once week to fund our mains and not at this rate ill have to do PVE non stop to be able to afford my loses screw that id rather just get back into BF3 or something
So you are choosing "die"
"Dont let the door hit you where the gods split you"
Florestan Bronstein wrote:
All CCP did in this case is intervene to move the labor market in EVE from its horribly broken artificial equilibrium closer to the equilibrium we would see in a more realistic/free market - and that means you can have fun or isk but not both. It should be a hard decision for players to choose between fun and isk income (both options should be "perfectly equal" in the player's mind) and hard decisions make for great gameplay.
If they were to rebalance the whole game around this theory, Id be not letting the door hit me on the way to a game where I CAN get both. I have a job irl thx, dont need to pay for a second one.
Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game |

taque
Special Situations TOHA Conglomerate
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 15:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
Quote:Dethl0k wrote: To be honest I dont know if it was a good move or not, Im not a game deisigner but all i know is me and my buddys would run incursions once week to fund our mains and not at this rate ill have to do PVE non stop to be able to afford my loses screw that id rather just get back into BF3 or something
now now, like it ruins your entire eve career.
but i wonder if there was not another solution than to nerf the vanguards in a ridiculous manner. i have run them a couple of weeks to be able to buy a few plexes and i had a lot of fun while doing them. i did like the forming up and the contests when running for OTA's and i got some experience in running in a fleet with a logi ship, something i never had done before.
ofcourse you can still run those sites and to be honest, can do them quite uncontested. it's just that it takes longer and the fleet felt asleep after the 5th site. i wouldn't have bothered if the pay out was halved really but the nerf that forces our fleet to kill wave after wave and then another 'random spawn' killed the fun of it and that makes it less attractive to bother with them.
i guess players will just switch to assaults which aren't much harder (but harder to organise) and still have a good payout so nothing really has changed. for those that want, they can choose to do assaults or stick with the nerfed VG's.
i just wonder if this nerf of VG's has brought the change CCP aimed for. |

March rabbit
Trojan Trolls Red Alliance
165
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 15:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
Katarina Reid wrote:Dethl0k wrote:Everyone is back to missioning and that is so boring. You think people are gonna back to missioning after making incursion isk? no they will just quit. so are people back to missions or are they quiting? there is another question: were those people in Eve BEFORE incursion is born? If they already played Eve then why will they leave? If those people only joined Eve to run incursions then..... noone will miss them i guess |

Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
62
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 16:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:If they were to rebalance the whole game around this theory, Id be not letting the door hit me on the way to a game where I CAN get both. I have a job irl thx, dont need to pay for a second one. world of warcraft is this way =>
|

Caellach Marellus
Aideron Robotics Darkmatter Initiative
518
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 16:37:00 -
[16] - Quote
Florestan Bronstein wrote:maybe we can finally go back to the "move lvl4s to low-sec" agenda?
If you want to waste your time, I'd rather try asking for something reasonable and likely to happen. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |

Liliana Rahl
Remote Soviet Industries
12
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 16:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
Theres already a tear thread about this. |

Zag'mar Jurkar
Z.E.N
12
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 16:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
What were you guys (incursion runners) doing before CCP add incursions ? |

Orlacc
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
125
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 16:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Zag'mar Jurkar wrote:What were you guys (incursion runners) doing before CCP add incursions ?
No doubt complaining about something else ....
|

BearJews
Android Arms And Industrial Corporation Tenth Legion
34
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 16:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Katarina Reid wrote:Dethl0k wrote:Everyone is back to missioning and that is so boring. You think people are gonna back to missioning after making incursion isk? no they will just quit. so are people back to missions or are they quiting? there is another question: were those people in Eve BEFORE incursion is born? If they already played Eve then why will they leave? If those people only joined Eve to run incursions then..... noone will miss them i guess Not really. It was more about I now can afford to PVP as much as I want because I have loads of isk to burn. While I did lvl4 missions I never pvp'd, or to be more accurate, did it when I was required. WIth incursions I was able to pvp to my hearts content which was never really an option to me before. And now that ship prices have skyrocketed I feel less inclined to PVP.
Of course I still have yet to try the new incursions and feel that people like usual are just doom and glooming it up until Incursion isk is figured out once again. But the OTA nerf really hit hard because I spent months training up my skills just to run VGs well. Now i'm back to square one until a new path shows itself to me. |

Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
131
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 17:04:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ran my first Incursions last night, thanks to Darth Nefarious, in a not so perfect Harbinger. If I remember correctly, it was Vanguards and we did about 5 of the easy sites at about 8.7M isk per site. So, I made about 43M isk for a couple of hours work.
Very good for someone who can't do level 4's yet. I will say I don't think I would have gotten picked if Darth had not done it. With the 10% cut, I at least see most FC's will try to run sites with 1 person less in order for the isk to remain the same.
This will force the FC to use the shinest fleets to make up for a player loss. Or the big boys will run to level 4's and give newer people a better chance of being picked. Only time will tell On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton where the dripping patchouli was more than scent, It was a sun-á |

nahjustwarpin
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
11
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 17:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
Dethl0k wrote:Everyone is back to missioning and that is so boring. You are gonna lose alot of subscriptions on this move. Not even shiny pilots can find a fleet how do you think the guy in the hyperion is doin finding a fleet, you ruined the only group PVE that was halfway enjoyable. You think people are gonna back to missioning after making incursion isk? no they will just quit. you should have nerfed a little at a time but this was way to extreme. No one can find a fleet how are we supposed to keep our mains in ships if we cant make isk on our ALTS you killed it
i like the part, where you say, that incursion runners pay for subscriptions. |

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
353
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 17:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
Quote:This will force the FC to use the shinest fleets to make up for a player loss. Or the big boys will run to level 4's and give newer people a better chance of being picked. Only time will tell
So you're saying that the design goal of Incursions should be, "Spit out such a stupidly high amount of ISK that incursion runners don't give a **** about optimizing their ISK/hour". |

Scerwup
Black Mesa Mavericks
2
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 17:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
Oh no!! Oh, God no!!! Everyone is quitting EvE because they can no longer make 10 bill isk in 22 minutes running Incursions. Am I going to be the only one left playing EvE at all? Please someone tell me before everyone else quits. I will end up shooting the Jita monument all alone, and to be quite honest, that's not a very good protest. |

FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1381
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 17:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
People seem to be forgetting that there is an incoming nerf that's going to affect L4 missions as well.
CCP is dialing down the highsec isk fountains. This really surprises you guys? It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |

Jack Miton
Lapse Of Sanity Exhale.
209
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 20:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
Oh noes, CCP finally fixed the stupidly high income from stupidly easy sites!!!!
You mad bro? Show me on your nightmare where CCP touched you.
Go PVE somewhere where you actually have to take a risk if you want isk so badly. |

Trinity Six
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 21:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:People seem to be forgetting that there is an incoming nerf that's going to affect L4 missions as well.
CCP is dialing down the highsec isk fountains. This really surprises you guys?
It's not just hisec tho unfortunately :( They should make people want to do lowsec incursions more if they want more people to blow up. No protection from concord. |

Gonzo TheGreat
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
12
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 22:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
Guys, Better increase those standings for level 4 mission agents |

Welsige
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
57
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 00:15:00 -
[29] - Quote
oh well back to anomalies then, 18mil a tick solo..... ~ 10.058 ~
Free The Mittani |

Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
43
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 01:10:00 -
[30] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:People seem to be forgetting that there is an incoming nerf that's going to affect L4 missions as well
CCP is dialing down the highsec isk fountains. This really surprises you guys?
If that is the case, I my even be happy with the incursion nerf. My problem is not that vanguards give more or less than sanctums, I just do not agree that incursions should be in the same league as level 4 missions. Seems just wrong to me.
edit: Oh, and yeah, if they really start to give low sec and null sec outside of tech moons some isk low, than I will be surprised. Sometimes surprises can be pleasant.
Jack Miton wrote: Go PVE somewhere where you actually have to take a risk if you want isk so badly.
L4s are risk? |
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