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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.02.26 21:17:00 -
[1]
Think a research lab module with x10 research/copy time compared to a highsec NPC lab.
Think a manufacture line module with x2 material waste compared to a highsec NPC station.
Think a refining module with 35% max refine rate (even at max skills) and long-ish cycle time.
Think of them on a rather defenseless, slow-moving, battlecruiser-sized but RATHER EXPENSIVE ship (with a decent cargo space, but not too large) which could only fit one of those three modules at any one time.
Wouldn't you just LOVE them for wormhole exploration ? 
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.02.26 21:23:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Tippia on 26/02/2009 21:23:27
Meh… why not some module with insane CPU requirements, a hefty mass addition, and some nasty speed penalties.
Something you could fit in those (few) highslots on, say, an industrial ship? 
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.02.26 21:28:00 -
[3]
Nah, it needs to hurt a bit more when you lose one of those... and the cargo space might be a bit TOO good on some setups for the industrials (or way too low on other setups)
But then again, I guess you could make the modules themselves cost a metric assload of resources, so it DOES hurt when you lose them either way... so industrials might be fine too.
And of course, they'll need to be in space (as in, not docked) and piloted (occupied by a pod) in order for the jobs to run at all... can't use them while docked up, can't use several at the same time (jobs would just pause).
Oh... and I hope they (re)consider and add some "normal" asteroids in wormhole space then
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Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2009.02.26 21:33:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Akita T
Nah, it needs to hurt a bit more when you lose one of those... and the cargo space might be a bit TOO good on some setups for the industrials (or way too low on other setups)
But then again, I guess you could make the modules themselves cost a metric assload of resources, so it DOES hurt when you lose them either way... so industrials might be fine too.
And of course, they'll need to be in space (as in, not docked) and piloted (occupied by a pod) in order for the jobs to run at all... can't use them while docked up, can't use several at the same time (jobs would just pause).
Oh... and I hope they (re)consider and add some "normal" asteroids in wormhole space then
and not cloaked either...and while the job is running you cannot cloak and stuff...maybe like siege mode...but would be more fun if the industrial ship could maybe run around still, and not be stuck in space.
Anything that reduces reliance on POS is a good thing....Obviously this new ship based sci&ind would be limited to just making mods and ammo...and maybe just researching BPs for these items...but making ammo where ever you are would be a huge win.
Just as long as its VERY wasteful.
Originally by: CCP Whisper
No it is not an official statement. Not everything surrounded by blue bars is an official statement which can be quoted as fact until the end of time. Deal with it.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.02.26 21:39:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Akita T on 26/02/2009 21:46:16
Well, I'm thinking maybe "upgrade" the Orca and the Rorqual to be able to fit them.
But then again, any other ship would do fine.
And the trick would be... the module occupies ALL lowslots and ALL rig slots of a ship (no matter how many they are), and maybe also a penalty to cargo space
This means no cargo expansion of any kind, actually, maybe even a shrinkage of cargo space.
Penalty for operating any of the modules : unable to cloak, unable to warp, SHIP DOES NOT VANISH WHEN LOGGING OFF.
Also, allow packaged ships to be assembled from cargohold into the ship maintenance bay (if available on the ship with a manufacture module).
The way the module fiting requirements are set, this means you can control the size of ships able to be manufactured based on base cargo of ships that can fit the module and penalties applied from the manufacture module (because they can't have enough materials on board to start the manufacture process).
I mean, I see no serious harm if you want to manufacture T1 frigs and destroyers, maybe even some of the lowest-tier cruisers too, alongside modules, rigs and ammo.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.02.26 21:57:00 -
[6]
Who would use a 35% refinery, rather than haul the stuff twice as far to get to an NPC refinery or POS which would be far more efficient?
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.02.26 22:03:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Who would use a 35% refinery, rather than haul the stuff twice as far to get to an NPC refinery or POS which would be far more efficient?
People in space that doesnt have pos nor stations.
Originally by: Akita T
Seriously ?
...wow... I'm such a forum ho' !
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.02.26 22:04:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Who would use a 35% refinery, rather than haul the stuff twice as far to get to an NPC refinery or POS which would be far more efficient?
People in wormhole space, with no normal-space exit in sight (or, with normal-space exits in very dangerous/enemy territory).
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.02.26 22:05:00 -
[9]
T2 Version of the Orca, ORE and Duvoll Labs joint venture for the express purpose of extended trips into uncharted space.
Cargo capacity shrunk, but with increased Maint and Ship bay
Drone space and bandwidth equiv of the Dominix
Moderate tanking capability, on par with a moderate fitted battleship
Very small combat and mining command bonuses, less than a quarter of either the Command Ships or Orca
And one module slot suggested above of either
Single Lab Slot with increased research time
Refining slot with base 20% increasing to 40% with skills
1 manufacturing line with increase in waste but no loss in time
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.02.26 22:07:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Akita T
People in wormhole space, with no normal-space exit in sight (or, with normal-space exits in very dangerous/enemy territory).
So you process all that stuff in wormhole space instead of taking a POS in with you? And then do what with the product?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.02.26 22:18:00 -
[11]
Nah, they'd just work with T1 stuff, regular ore and minerals... no T2 stuff, no T3 stuff, no reactions, no alchemy, no invention... just to replenish ammo and charges mainly, replace some "scout" ships if destroyed, stuff like that.
You know, allow you to stay in there for a longer time, or even indefinitely (if you don't get really unlucky, that is).
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Bish Ounen
Gallente
Best Path Inc.
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.02.26 22:27:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Akita T
Nah, they'd just work with T1 stuff, regular ore and minerals... no T2 stuff, no T3 stuff, no reactions, no alchemy, no invention... just to replenish ammo and charges mainly, replace some "scout" ships if destroyed, stuff like that.
You know, allow you to stay in there for a longer time, or even indefinitely (if you don't get really unlucky, that is).
Wouldn't a POS essentially allow the same thing? As long as you bring in enough fuel, you can keep a small POS going for a very long time. Just anchor a few GSC's with extra fuel stashed in them, and you can stay in WH space for months at a time.
Fix the Wardec System! |
Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
SCUM.
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Posted - 2009.02.26 22:32:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 26/02/2009 22:34:37
Only if the ship were limited to Low Sec. Have a new game mechanic that lets you "anchor" the ship like you would a POS module and activate features on it from the outside, although you can also jump into it and fly it to new locations.
But it's essential that the jobs only progress while the ship is either being piloted or is in this anchor mode. If you let the jobs progress while the pilot is logged off and the ship is in disappeared status that'd be beyond lame.
edit: maybe I could tolerate it being allowed in High Sec, but those other features are an absolute must.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.02.26 22:32:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Akita T on 26/02/2009 22:36:17
Originally by: Bish Ounen
Wouldn't a POS essentially allow the same thing?
For a limited amount of time, linked to the amount of fuel you bring with you.
This could theoretically allow people to remain there as long as they care to, never be forced to return unless they want to do it (to sell their spoils of war, maybe).
Also, it would serve some OTHER people well in normal space too... especially people in small groups that want to have operations in deep 0.0, be it in neutral or enemy territory, and simply can't get access to a station, and operating a POS would expose them to way too much risks.
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Only if the ship were limited to Low Sec and only functions when a person is logged in. Not sure how you'd implement that last bit because it isn't feasible to sit at a POS for the lengths of time these sorts of jobs take to complete. Maybe have a new game mechanic that lets you "anchor" the ship like you would a POS module and activate features on it remotely.
The "can not warp / does not vanish on logoff / lines only operate in space" combo (see post #5) makes it unnecessary to have any of those other limitations and/or features you just mentioned.
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Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
KISOGOKU
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Posted - 2009.02.26 22:41:00 -
[15]
Edited by: KISOGOKU on 26/02/2009 22:41:47
*kicks gallenten loser ,Orca is joint op between ORE and Deepcore mining noway gallenteens can put their dirty hands with duvolle to beauty of orca .Any form of orca (tech2/3/4/5) will be ORE -deepcore mining co-op .Get ready to talk to MR. CN AM ,This will be dealth with * . Ends transmission
No Akita we dont need .
PS:Kazzac i could not resist
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
T2 Version of the Orca, ORE and Duvoll Labs joint venture
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.02.27 01:03:00 -
[16]
No harm no foul ;)
Just figured an interesting combo of mobile station (Duvoll) combined with Ore tech more or less. |
Khrillian
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.02.27 02:07:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Akita T
The "can not warp / does not vanish on logoff / lines only operate in space" combo (see post #5) makes it unnecessary to have any of those other limitations and/or features you just mentioned.
Would they eventually vanish though? Otherwise I can't imagine people using them - they would eventually just get scanned & killed while you were dead.
What would you want with copying in w-space?
All you could really do with manufacturing is make ammo, since if you don't have POS access you can't fit or get into ships. For the average-length foray into w-space, how would this be better than packing an indy full of ammo?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.02.27 03:01:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Khrillian
Would they eventually vanish though?
Only when no jobs are running (i.e. module is not in use).
Quote:
What would you want with copying in w-space?
Myeah, true.
Quote:
All you could really do with manufacturing is make ammo, since if you don't have POS access you can't fit or get into ships. For the average-length foray into w-space, how would this be better than packing an indy full of ammo?
Orca (and Rorqual, but I question the good that will come from getting a Rorqual into W-Space... oh well, you never know) have ship bays... so, theoretically, you should be able to refit at them, no ?
The Orca is a reasonably decent candidate, since it's 4 times smaller (in mass) than any capital ship, barely twice the mass of a battleship, so you could find holes through which it can pass more often.
So... if you could not just bring a load of ships with you in the maintenance bay (the T2 stuff mainly), but also manufacture new ones on the spot (even if only pretty weak/small/T1 ones), wouldn't that be an improvement over not having any replacements at all and be forced back ? I mean, you can't even get a battleship into the Orca maintenance bay, and you can't even fit two battlecruisers... heck, you can only slap in 4 HACs or so inside.
When your gang loses a battleship or a battlecruiser, do you really want the pilot there to be forced to pod himself home, or would you rather have a spare BC/HAC for him ? And what if a second pilot loses his ship, what now ? Wouldn't you rather have them in a Caracal, a Vexor or a Stabber instead ?
Sure, you waste some time gathering the minerals and guarding the manufacture ship while "it cooks" the replacement, time you have to explore the system you're in right now, but at least you don't have to send any of your guys back with the pod express (especially painful if you're several jumps into W-Space and no way back where you came from).
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Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.02.27 04:23:00 -
[19]
Honestly I think there is enough merit for the idea depending on how well received WH space it.
It could even help serve nul sec black op operations. Fit a cloak to it and it now becomes a quick strike mobile base camp. |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.02.27 05:50:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Mara Rinn on 27/02/2009 05:51:42
Small tower + factory + small stash of fuel to last a few days.
Send a recon into system, you'll know quicksmart whether there's raw material there to make stuff from. Otherwise you send in two Orcas with the fighting force in the maintenance arrays, cargohold & corp hangar stacked full of supplies.
If T2 components sell for high enough, you could even end up simply reprocessing all the ships you take in, parking the Orca in a deep safe, and only bringing out the high value-to-volume items in a small ship that can still get through the wormhole after the expedition has finished.
Heck, leave the POS anchored, with whatever fuel it has remaining to deny that moon from anyone else seeking to establish a base?
There's even scope here for a "tiny" control tower which has just enough capacity to handle a refinery, hangar and factory.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.02.27 05:51:00 -
[21]
as long as they have a *this ship cannot be piloted by npc corporation members* requirement.
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McDaddy Pimp
THE INTERNET.
Goodfellas.
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Posted - 2009.02.27 07:10:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Akita T
Think a research lab module with x10 research/copy time compared to a highsec NPC lab.
Think a manufacture line module with x2 material waste compared to a highsec NPC station.
Think a refining module with 35% max refine rate (even at max skills) and long-ish cycle time.
My idea:
- 3 new mods, for each job, high slot and can only run while in industrial core mode.
- New bonus for the Orca, 99% PG reduction for Industrial Core
- This make the new "Factory" Orca still dependent on consumable (Heavy Water) but not as bad as a POS, in other words: not overpowered.
- Makes both the Orca and Roqual more useful for WH exploration.
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Dantes Revenge
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.27 08:54:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Dantes Revenge on 27/02/2009 08:54:22
Oh and it sets off a beacon to the whole of Eve telling them where you are and allowing everyone to warp to you from whatever system they are in.
If that's not making it hard enough, maybe we should make onlining time take 3 weeks and it can be popped with one volley from a frigate.
Let's just make it impossible mode shall we?
--
Originally by: CCP Whisper
No it is not an official statement. Not everything surrounded by blue bars is an official statement which can be quoted as fact until the end of time. Deal with it.
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Kaahles
n0thing Inc.
Ghostfleet
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Posted - 2009.02.27 09:19:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Kaahles on 27/02/2009 09:22:54
Edited by: Kaahles on 27/02/2009 09:20:33
Wrong subforum guys.
But since I'm already posting in here:
I’d like a ship based on the basic principle of the Orca (large, more or less defensless, capital class (read:expensive), ship bay, corp hangar) but special for wormholes. Modules for production of ammo, basic refining and stuff like that. Make the ship anchorable on planets / moons and generate a small force field (some kind of temporary deep space exploration outpost). It would consume fuel of course and have some serious disadvantages over a “full” POS.
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OMG THE SKY IS FALLING!
Contract me all your stuff so I can save it! |
SentryRaven
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.27 10:01:00 -
[25]
Sounds interesting. :)
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EBANK Forum Manager | KIA Recruiting Director |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.02.27 10:02:00 -
[26]
High waste would make those methods unused. People will rather set up a temp POS instead of using such a ship then. And who would be sitting logged into a ship for a dozen hours to several days just to get some stuff researched/produced? Sound like a Alt-mobile to me.
Nope. Rather have those available at higher base cost with fuel costs to maintain and limited in lines but be faster than normal research. A ISK to time converter. A behind enemy lines module reprocessor and drone/charges producer. That would sound more feasible, IMHO.
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Ideas for: Mining
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RaTTuS
BIG
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.02.27 10:12:00 -
[27]
T3 modules for ships
Labs Mod | Refining Array Mod
etc...
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BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve
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Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.02.27 11:12:00 -
[28]
As pointed out above those would kinda make sense as *****ble mods for orca. However I think currently implemented stuff allows you already do that, especially if you have already orca. Put small tower in it + month or two of fuel. Take with you mobile lab, small refinery and few smaller factories. It is as you describe it.
Somewhat slow and inconvinient, but hey - it would work. Even Iteron 5 can do it.
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J Ryan
Caldari
NoD Imperium
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Posted - 2009.02.27 11:38:00 -
[29]
What about a Thukker Tribe capital size ship (similar to the orca). Would fit in with the whole Nomadic lifestyle of theirs. Make is so that it has a bonus when refining modules, and make it only able to build ammo, drones or modules.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.02.27 11:40:00 -
[30]
The other major inconvenience is that POSes can only be set up at moons... while a ship can simply be parked somewhere random in space.
If we could have some sort of structure that can serve a similar purpose to a POS, but could be placed anywhere... then yeah, it would be basically the same thing (as long as fuel lasts)... but until then, it's just not the same.
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Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
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midge Mo'yb
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.02.27 12:44:00 -
[31]
How about the Orca's corp hangar array be made modular, they could add another high slot, and in this highslot you put
Ship assembly array
Equipment assembly array
Corporate Hangar
Refining Array
which could be operated to better efficiency at higher levels
now adding an extra highslot would give you the option of a new tractor or new salvager, but with that you lose the above functionality?
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McDaddy Pimp
THE INTERNET.
Goodfellas.
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Posted - 2009.02.28 06:18:00 -
[32]
look what i found
Test Science Vessel
it was in the "Not Published" category of the db. 
----
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Ranting is not permitted.
Originally by: CCP Navigator
You may want to quit while you are ahead.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.16 21:30:00 -
[33]
Soooo, now that M10 is upon us already, time to revisit the idea ?
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Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.03.16 21:50:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Nova Fox on 16/03/2009 21:53:46
I have an idea for a scientific capitol in my signature but Its in dire need of revision.
Also had ideas for an industrial capitol and another set of civillian ships but never made them public.
=============
Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today
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Netacq
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Posted - 2009.03.16 22:42:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
T2 Version of the Orca, ORE and Duvoll Labs joint venture for the express purpose of extended trips into uncharted space.
Cargo capacity shrunk, but with increased Maint and Ship bay
Drone space and bandwidth equiv of the Dominix
Moderate tanking capability, on par with a moderate fitted battleship
Very small combat and mining command bonuses, less than a quarter of either the Command Ships or Orca
And one module slot suggested above of either
Single Lab Slot with increased research time
Refining slot with base 20% increasing to 40% with skills
1 manufacturing line with increase in waste but no loss in time
/signed, if warpable by overview
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Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.03.16 22:56:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 16/03/2009 22:56:18
I kinda expected something in this direction for Quantum Rise, but we all know how that went. Now I'd expect the Empires of Eve Online to put some actual research into some vessels that makes colonization of Wormhole Space easier.
Put it in the assembly hall and I'll sign it.
(On the condition that there will be a vessel with the Providence hull or something similar)
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Armoured C
Gallente
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.03.16 23:15:00 -
[37]
i would settle for a exploration commandship ,
minmal offensive, a ship module that will allow you to refit in space and have a larger ship bay and a tiny cargo hold , with has the ship refit like a siege module.
this is something i think we need , maybe a boost in gang warware link to scan probes when it the leeder with the edition of scan probing strength as a bonus when gang leader
F-OFF IS RECRUITING CLICK SIG
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Johann Callasan
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.03.16 23:24:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Akita T
People in wormhole space, with no normal-space exit in sight (or, with normal-space exits in very dangerous/enemy territory).
So you process all that stuff in wormhole space instead of taking a POS in with you? And then do what with the product?
Think "mobile base of operations".
Might be a tad overpowered, the ability to resupply in the field, wherever you are...at will, and if you keep it defended/fed with minerals, for forever.
Can see the point when in wormhole space, where a fleet could keep getting new frigs/ammo once the wormhole closes, and not have to worry about resupply - in nullsec/lowsec, might be a bit overboard.
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Armoured C
Gallente
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.03.16 23:27:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Johann Callasan
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Akita T
People in wormhole space, with no normal-space exit in sight (or, with normal-space exits in very dangerous/enemy territory).
So you process all that stuff in wormhole space instead of taking a POS in with you? And then do what with the product?
Think "mobile base of operations".
Might be a tad overpowered, the ability to resupply in the field, wherever you are...at will, and if you keep it defended/fed with minerals, for forever.
Can see the point when in wormhole space, where a fleet could keep getting new frigs/ammo once the wormhole closes, and not have to worry about resupply - in nullsec/lowsec, might be a bit overboard.
that not actually bad, if there is a ship bay for ore ships then you could say do frigates, keep a scan fri BPC in there and a scan probe launcher and scan probe BPC in there and you got yourself somethingi ntresting there
althought with the ship size only do up to say frigates or maybe even cruisers
F-OFF IS RECRUITING CLICK SIG
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Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.03.16 23:31:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Akita T
Soooo, now that M10 is upon us already, time to revisit the idea ?
Bascialy putting POS production functions on a ship that can logoffski to become imune is a non starter with the dev team.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence. |
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Caelum Mortuos
Gallente
Zero G Research and Development
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Posted - 2009.03.16 23:46:00 -
[41]
I like this idea, and would totally buy it just for the novelty.
But then, I gave up hopes that CCP would deliver for its industrialists a long time ago.......when was that industrial expansion again? oh wai....it's not gonna happen people, sorry but it's not. ever. period.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.17 00:35:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Steve Thomas
Originally by: Akita T
Soooo, now that M10 is upon us already, time to revisit the idea ?
Bascialy putting POS production functions on a ship that can logoffski to become imune is a non starter with the dev team.
You haven't read the thread much, have you ? This issue has been risen, and as response proposals have been made to make it impossible to just "logoffsky", at least as long as any of the lines are running.
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