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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
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CCP Fallout
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Posted - 2009.02.27 14:59:00 -
[1]
We all know what great toys will be coming to EVE Online: Apocrypha, but what are the GMs doing to prepare for it? In his newest dev blog, GM Guard fills us in on what the team has been doing so that you can get the best support once the expansion goes live.
Fallout
Associate Community Manager
CCP Hf, EVE Online
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CCP Fallout
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:08:00 -
[2]
btw, first posts will be deleted, and i may warn ya :D
Fallout
Associate Community Manager
CCP Hf, EVE Online
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:13:00 -
[3]
Fir.... err, second!
But good to see that the GMs are busy on the test server to watch for possible pitfalls which might increase petitions.
I wonder if there will be some special handling with all those 'stuck in wormhole space' petitions though.
Any warnings when entering the wormholes? Special tutorials about wormholes?
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Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:13:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Cedric Diggory on 27/02/2009 15:13:28
Foiled in a thread that will doubtless descend into accusations of foul play on CCPs part somewhere.
Good to hear that everyone is working so closely together on this expansion, can't wait until m10...
---
 Originally by: 7shining7one7
a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever
b) those who believe there are are nuts
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Captain Politics
JotunHeim Hird
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:13:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Captain Politics on 27/02/2009 15:15:00
Edited by: Captain Politics on 27/02/2009 15:14:04
Lol I had first :) I was deleted as I wrote first :) Sorry 
Well it's think good that GM's are proactive. Have you any plans on separating the help channel into branches to cope with the massive amount of new players needing help ?
This way it will make it easier for the player base to help out....
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CCP Fallout
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:17:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Captain Politics
Edited by: Captain Politics on 27/02/2009 15:15:00
Edited by: Captain Politics on 27/02/2009 15:14:04
Well it's think good that GM's are proactive. Have you any plans on separating the help channel into branches to cope with the massive amount of new players needing help ?
This way it will make it easier for the player base to help out....
Don't forget that there's the new player channel that real new accounts have access to for the first thirty days.
Fallout
Associate Community Manager
CCP Hf, EVE Online
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Captain Politics
JotunHeim Hird
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:20:00 -
[7]
Originally by: CCP Fallout
Originally by: Captain Politics
Edited by: Captain Politics on 27/02/2009 15:15:00
Edited by: Captain Politics on 27/02/2009 15:14:04
Well it's think good that GM's are proactive. Have you any plans on separating the help channel into branches to cope with the massive amount of new players needing help ?
This way it will make it easier for the player base to help out....
Don't forget that there's the new player channel that real new accounts have access to for the first thirty days.
Well that "real" newbie chat is currently moving so fast, that you have no chance as a newbie to follow it and get answers. Seperating into different sections would help alot. Also the amount of spam that is in there, is a real problem currently...
This gives the new players the insane idea that buying isk for real money is ok !!!!
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:22:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Captain Politics
Have you any plans on separating the help channel into branches to cope with the massive amount of new players needing help ?
...
Well that "real" newbie chat is currently moving so fast, that you have no chance as a newbie to follow it and get answers. Seperating into different sections would help alot.
A very good idea! I can only agree that the rookie channel is so very crowed that something needs to be done - it will get also much worse when tons of more new players will arrive.
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Lord Zarcam
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:34:00 -
[9]
Agreed! The rookie channel is worthless for most players. I stopped using it after the first day. It's hard enough playing this game for the first time with all that spam and junk! When I did have access to it, there was an average of 2400 people on that channel, half were trying to ask questions at the same time, the other half was spaming ISK's for sale.
In Space, No One Can Hear You Scream! |
Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.02.27 16:18:00 -
[10]
Originally by: CCP Fallout
btw, first posts will be deleted, and i may warn ya :D
. . . but you just did warn people.
that said hopefully this will soon mean less frustration dealing with some of the ISOs when we try to explain what we are talking about.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence. |
Ford Chicago
Omega Enterprises
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2009.02.27 16:47:00 -
[11]
I suspect that their main method of preparation is frantically copying the sentence "I'm sorry for your loss, but our logs show nothing." so that they don't run out when the expansion hits.
As far as I can tell on SISI, there's a lot of stuff that is just slightly more than half baked, although most of my personal experimentation was focused on the scanning system and probes.
Simple functionality and attributes of modules seem to have seen little testing and some basic functions were non-operative less than a month before planned release. Most development projects would be in lockdown mode at that point with code changes only allowed for bug fixes. This indicates to me that the test process, if it exists, is developer led, or focused on unit testing as opposed to functional testing, which is a very scary thing indeed.
I certainly don't envy the GM team.
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Miniturret
Amarr
Mining Under the influence of Sugar Pals
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Posted - 2009.02.27 17:52:00 -
[12]
glad to know that the GM's are attempting to keep up with the new content but all I can say is from what I've been reading and hearing from others I feel sorry for anyone on the receiving end of the petitions.
 good luck and may god have mercy on your wretched soul.
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Dev Rom
Caldari
Masterminds Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.27 18:17:00 -
[13]
Originally by: CCP Fallout
We all know what great toys will be coming to EVE Online: Apocrypha, but what are the GMs doing to prepare for it? In his newest dev blog, GM Guard fills us in on what the team has been doing so that you can get the best support once the expansion goes live.
Everything born to make time to go get drunk yourselves, isn't it? :PPP
Great job! :D
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Arte
Damage over Time
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Posted - 2009.02.27 18:23:00 -
[14]
So, from what I can tell we can expect to have a GM subject matter expert (SME) on each design change that comes with Apocrypha.
Would it be reasonable to assume that each of the scrum teams that are working on those features is involved with play testing as well so that they can get a feel for what they are producing; and be involved in this proactive approach to problem identification and solving.
If that was the case that when it comes to solving the bugs as they appear, it isn't just a code thing that the members of the team see, it's the bug in live action that they can experience themselves.
If not, why not? Is it just impractical or just not something that is in the current setup of game/feature development
Originally by: CCP Whisper
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So you're going to have to do some actual thinking |
Komen
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.02.27 19:50:00 -
[15]
Mmmm, I r <3 GMs for proactively troubleshooting.
Good on ye's.
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Cactus Mack
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Posted - 2009.02.27 21:27:00 -
[16]
Quote:
Afterwards these GMs will be acknowledged as äexperts" in the features they studied and proactively hunt down and make sure that bugs/borked functionality related to them are fixed.
 Ahahahahahaha! What a knee slapper.
You forgot the  at the end of that statement.
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Halvus
Minmatar
Wolfington Industries
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.02.27 23:23:00 -
[17]
Quote:
"We donæt just support, we try to make the need for our support as minimal as possible."
Lazy beggers 
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rubico1337
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Posted - 2009.02.27 23:49:00 -
[18]
Edited by: rubico1337 on 27/02/2009 23:49:54
i am all for being proactive to reduce the workload of petitions for GMs
but have you entertained a solution to to be proactive against the vast amounts of cookie-cutter responses to ISK farming petitions? the problem is real, and very big.
if you dont believe me then i BEG that you should run a comparison between the number of highsec lvl 4 missions completed for the week of jan 25- feb 1, and then compare it to the previous week, and the following week... and then figure out what is so specal about 25th through the 1st
the only time i get action is when i push... hard once a higher up gets to it(praise and love be upon GM nova and his awesomeness) until these petitions get some real action i will continue filling them everyday, filling up your ques
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Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
Ministry of Information
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Posted - 2009.02.28 00:57:00 -
[19]
Originally by: "GM Guard"
... and read all documentation available (which is a lot).
Well I'm glad the Myth that EVE has no documentation can finally be put to rest
Seriously .. From what was described to me during the CSM, there is still a loo.. <insert o's here> ... oooot more you guys do proactively. Keep up the good work.
≡v≡ Strategic Maps in Eve-Online Store | eve-maps.com |
Flinchey
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.02.28 06:50:00 -
[20]
well that's a very reassuring blog
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Altaree
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2009.02.28 13:15:00 -
[21]
Any way you can use that internal documentation to generate some external documentation?
Blue Sky |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2009.02.28 15:11:00 -
[22]
Huh.. that's.. that's actually pretty freaking clever. I like the approach CCP is taking to development these days, it seems scrum development can be very easily adapted for new purposes like this creation of feature experts.
I wonder if I could be so rude as to ask a few questions about this new approach of creating feature experts within the GM ranks. What happens if the employee in question quits and you lose an expert on a particular feature? Is there redundancy built into this system to cope with that and is there support for current experts to train new GMs as replacements?
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Braaage
Ministry of Craft
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Posted - 2009.02.28 18:50:00 -
[23]
Get one standard reply ready
"I'm stuck in wormhole space, how do I get out and will you move me to a station in empire"
Standard reply
"haha!!!"
--
POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, Character Generator & more |
Sar'tosa
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Posted - 2009.03.01 00:06:00 -
[24]
I suspect that their main method of preparation is frantically copying the sentence "I'm sorry for your loss, but our logs show nothing." so that they don't run out when the expansion hits.
And that is the standard answer from CCP for every incident that goes wrong. Gotta love the proactive on "Lag-Online". 
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wert668
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Posted - 2009.03.01 21:19:00 -
[25]
Good luck CCP.
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
Eclats de verre
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Posted - 2009.03.02 09:39:00 -
[26]
I would be pretty cool if all the 'standard answers' would be added to the EVElopedia as many articles or an FAQ, I think it could help much.
Documentation (when not talking about how to exploit that shiny new stuff) is always better when it's made public!
--
Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! |
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GM Guard
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Posted - 2009.03.03 13:49:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Captain Politics
Have you any plans on separating the help channel into branches to cope with the massive amount of new players needing help ?
...
Well that "real" newbie chat is currently moving so fast, that you have no chance as a newbie to follow it and get answers. Seperating into different sections would help alot.
A very good idea! I can only agree that the rookie channel is so very crowed that something needs to be done - it will get also much worse when tons of more new players will arrive.
Thanks for the feedback guys. We will be sure to look into this.
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GM Guard
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Posted - 2009.03.03 14:00:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Altaree
Any way you can use that internal documentation to generate some external documentation?
Good question, and the answer is yes.
We use internal documentaion to make external documentation and one of our GM Groups, fittingly dubbed "Brain cell", always dedicates a portion of their time to updating and maintaining external documentation. We will do our best to provide you with as much accessible information as we can. It makes sense for you guys, and for us. You run into less problems and we get less petitions, meaning we can spend even more time on making better documentation.
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GM Guard
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Posted - 2009.03.03 14:12:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Nyphur
Edited by: Nyphur on 01/03/2009 12:50:09
Huh.. that's.. that's actually pretty freaking clever. I like the approach CCP is taking to development these days, it seems scrum development can be very easily adapted for new purposes like this creation of feature experts. I wonder if I could be so rude as to ask a few questions about this new approach of creating feature experts within the GM ranks. What happens if the employee in question quits and you lose an expert on a particular feature? Is there redundancy built into this system to cope with that and is there support for current experts to train new GMs as replacements?
EDIT: Guess not? : /
We are lucky to have a very low employee turnover here in the support team. Well...it's down to more than blind luck I guess. Typically, support jobs have a high turnover rate but we escape that fate because EVE is way too complex and dynamic for the job to ever get one dimensional in any way. Every day brings us something new to deal with.
But should we lose people we try to make sure that there is enough internal documentation available to the rest of the team and that knowledge is adequetly dispersed among us for others to pick up the slack. Maintaining internal knowledge is an ongoing and never ending task.
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Vyktor Abyss
IONSTAR
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.04 03:39:00 -
[30]
Nice blog.
Does this mean your logs will now show something?
Glad you're being proactive. It will help.
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Evlyna
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Posted - 2009.03.04 10:46:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Evlyna on 04/03/2009 10:46:44
Quote:
Test out all the designs on SiSi, get a feel for them and try to spot issues customers might experience.
Funny, you're on it like madmen and yet, we're the ones who had to file bug reports for obvious recurring bugs over and over that everybody was spotting almost at logon.
Oh well... Hope your logs got some love too. Keep up the good work that is done.
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GM Guard
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Posted - 2009.03.04 14:14:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Vyktor Abyss
Nice blog.
Does this mean your logs will now show something?
Glad you're being proactive. It will help.
Our logs actually show a lot of things and help us sort out the majority of the case types we have to deal with. We are always improving them as well.
But...they have gotten a poor rep, mostly for being of limited use in certain kinds of ship losses. There are primarily two things that are very hard to log but come into play in a large percentage of all reimbursement requests.
1. The quality of connectivity experienced by each pilot at any given moment (near impossible to verify unless connected to simultaneous server issues)
2. A pilot's exact coordinates in space from second to second (X/Y/Z and all that).
These cases typically involve players suffering lag in combat or believing they were in docking or jumping range, outside a warp bubble, inside a POS forcefield...etc.
Being years ahead of the competition has a few drawbacks but hopefully weŠll be able to log everything we want to in the future. Up until now weŠve had to compromise due to technical boundaries. There is a trade-off involved when logging too many details as it puts a strain on the hamsters, which will in turn lead to more problems. So we need to handpick the log items that will be of most use, while causing the least strain.
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Vyktor Abyss
IONSTAR
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.04 22:36:00 -
[33]
And a solidly good reply to my kinda tongue in cheek question!
If the powers that be could just combine to create some kind of genitically-enhanced robo-hamsters, allowing you to log such things we'd all be much happier.
I must say I'm impressed with you Mr. Guard! If only the Dev team were as good as the GM team at liasing with the community, what a time it would be - Unfortunately mostly I feel what we get from them is hot air dreamt up by marketing these days!
Cheers.
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Notnearly OnEnough
Minmatar
JumpDrive Inc
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Posted - 2009.03.06 15:38:00 -
[34]
I am happy with the way the new release is developing and it offers a lot.
What I have read about retention levels of new players from the past sounds like it is being addressed and the learning curve is a huge one. Accelerated skill till 1.6mill SP is a great start.
Perhaps this 'new' rookie channel should be split.
basic help of course is fine
*new* rookie mission help
*new* rookie skill training mechanics help
*new* rookie starter profession INDUSTRY help
*new* rookie starter profession SOLDIER help
*new* rookie starter profession ***** help
that way the different CCP experts don't have to camp a generic help channel and needlessly scan tons of content, they can simply answer and help with things in their topic of expertise.
*** goes back to scraping the rust off my rifter ***
** Using a MAC to play EVE is like using a rifter in a level 5.. scrambled FTL **
** I'd rather lag than use a MAC ** |
big fluf
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Posted - 2009.03.07 05:11:00 -
[35]
Edited by: big fluf on 07/03/2009 05:13:03
DP
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big fluf
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Posted - 2009.03.07 05:13:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Captain Politics
Originally by: CCP Fallout
Originally by: Captain Politics
Edited by: Captain Politics on 27/02/2009 15:15:00
Edited by: Captain Politics on 27/02/2009 15:14:04
Well it's think good that GM's are proactive. Have you any plans on separating the help channel into branches to cope with the massive amount of new players needing help ?
This way it will make it easier for the player base to help out....
Don't forget that there's the new player channel that real new accounts have access to for the first thirty days.
Well that "real" newbie chat is currently moving so fast, that you have no chance as a newbie to follow it and get answers. Seperating into different sections would help alot. Also the amount of spam that is in there, is a real problem currently...
This gives the new players the insane idea that buying isk for real money is ok !!!!
100% agree, .. it is completely useless for the noobs, .. info flys by so fast, and there is not enough help, .. often you hear people say "hey I asked this 4 times, can someone help me..." .."hey did you guys see my post, I need help" "hey for the 3rd time, .. how do you ..."
I tried to help there a few times, and go in to a 1 on 1 chat with noobs, THAT helps a lot, cause you enable voice and help then do in 10 secs, what usually takes 20 mins to type. BUT some times the CCP reps there complain about people like me helping (they got right nasty at me). It was funny cause the noobs there were telling CPP rep to **** off cause I Was helping more then they where:)
oh well I don't get the noob channel anymore. just wanted to aggree with the above post.
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Black Laddy
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Posted - 2009.03.09 22:57:00 -
[37]
Originally by: GM Guard
Originally by: Vyktor Abyss
Nice blog.
Does this mean your logs will now show something?
Glad you're being proactive. It will help.
Our logs actually show a lot of things and help us sort out the majority of the case types we have to deal with. We are always improving them as well.
But...they have gotten a poor rep, mostly for being of limited use in certain kinds of ship losses. There are primarily two things that are very hard to log but come into play in a large percentage of all reimbursement requests.
1. The quality of connectivity experienced by each pilot at any given moment (near impossible to verify unless connected to simultaneous server issues)
2. A pilot's exact coordinates in space from second to second (X/Y/Z and all that).
These cases typically involve players suffering lag in combat or believing they were in docking or jumping range, outside a warp bubble, inside a POS forcefield...etc.
Being years ahead of the competition has a few drawbacks but hopefully weŠll be able to log everything we want to in the future. Up until now weŠve had to compromise due to technical boundaries. There is a trade-off involved when logging too many details as it puts a strain on the hamsters, which will in turn lead to more problems. So we need to handpick the log items that will be of most use, while causing the least strain.
do your logs show weather or not a warp disruption field is active or not ? In which case if they do not, then ANY hictor lost in 0.0 will be denied re-imbursement
let me paint a scenario
if you were in a hictor camping a gate, then a gang jumps in, you dont have a bubble up but maybe you fired at someone just before. The gang shows up and you try to jump. Yet the client server connection is being funny, you dont have agression anymore but you are still unable to jump. Ofcourse you cannot tell weather or not the client desynced. But YOU CAN tell weather or not he waited out the 60 second agression timer. Yet because your logs arent showing warp disruption fields as being active or non active. You have to deny the re-imbursement due to your own tools not being good enough.
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