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Darkside 34
Gallente The Maverick Navy Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.28 17:05:00 -
[1]
I understand logging of when an enemy force would otherwise not catch you anyway, but the current state of people logging of in buffer tanked haulers/freighters at gates is stupid.
Let me outline a few stupid scenarios, where we are helped out by our best friends who's names wont be mentioned (serious love y'all).
We had just had a fight on gate, the carrier warped to the gate, carrier.....with 15minute aggro.....disconnects and warps to an e-safe. We scan him down, we tackle him, we start killing him. He warps back to station?!?!?!?!?!?!?! WTF? I assume what happened here is when he logged back in his client forced him to continue warping to where he was EVEN though he had a HIC pointing him.
A providence runs one of our camps by logging off, then logging of right after he logs on so he doesn't warp back to the gate. <- DOES THIS NOT SOUND LIKE AN EXPLOIT TO YOU?
And all the time we have buffer tanked haulers logging off right after they jump through gates so they don't have 15min aggro, and if they use the above "trick" its IMPOSSIBLE to catch them.
So, I propose a fix. Once you are agressed (someone is attacking you) then your ship will NOT dissapear until the hostiles STOP aggroing you. Your ship will continue to attempt to warp off to another safe, so if the hostiles have horrible tackle, its their bad luck.
This isn't a "nerf logging off" thread, its a "Fix logging off" and "stop the people from abusing logging off" thread.
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http://www.battleclinic. |
Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2009.02.28 17:17:00 -
[2]
sounds like a whole lot of assumptions and a whine post.
And your solution is ridiculous....
Not Supported. =============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com ===============
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Darkside 34
Gallente The Maverick Navy Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.28 17:29:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Drake Draconis sounds like a whole lot of assumptions and a whine post.
And your solution is ridiculous....
Not Supported.
Semi-whine, but I don't see any assumptions.
Propose a better solution, if It sounds good then Ill put it in the OP. --------------------------------------------------
http://www.battleclinic. |
Seran Kela
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Posted - 2009.02.28 18:10:00 -
[4]
Originally I'd support the following statement:
"Players should be 100% sure that their ships are safe when logging off"
Ways to accomplish that would be docking in station or logging at a safe spot/friendly POS.
However due to disconnects and socket closures it may not be 'fair'. Thus the compromise.
Fixing the double-log trick would definitely help, but ships, even when aggressed, need to disappear eventually.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2009.02.28 18:14:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Drake Draconis on 28/02/2009 18:15:32 OP: Then come up with a solution that makes sense.
What you currently propose would make interdiction pointless and alot of people would complain of being unable to log out all because of aggro.. never mind the shooting part.
Speaking of which... what happens if they disconnect due to internet access... and then you got a crapton of petitioners asking for there stuff back. =============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com ===============
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Darkside 34
Gallente The Maverick Navy Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.28 18:20:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Drake Draconis Edited by: Drake Draconis on 28/02/2009 18:15:32 OP: Then come up with a solution that makes sense.
What you currently propose would make interdiction pointless and alot of people would complain of being unable to log out all because of aggro.. never mind the shooting part.
Speaking of which... what happens if they disconnect due to internet access... and then you got a crapton of petitioners asking for there stuff back.
Ok, then how about using the "log off" or "quit game" buttons send a "special" packet to the server causing the logoff to be treated differently. Yes we will have people yanking the cord out of their walls, but at least its more trouble for them. And that means their alts will DC as well. --------------------------------------------------
http://www.battleclinic. |
Furb Killer
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Posted - 2009.02.28 18:34:00 -
[7]
Why would it make dictors pointless?
At least something needs to be done about people logging off right after jumping. And agro timers disapearing after jumping also shouldnt happen. ---------------------------------------------
Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
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Valerius
Ghetto Tech Ghetto Security Services
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Posted - 2009.02.28 19:54:00 -
[8]
well they already fixed the timers getting killed after jumping. Atleast they dont reimburse for losses from it (yes, i jumped an ishtar warped to safespot and logged off due to RL, logged back in several hours later in high sec)
Anyways, claiming that people that lose connection during a fight should be able to save their asses with really valid, but how many times have YOU gotten a disco EXACTLY after jumping through a gate into an enemy camp?
Yes i agree those people that do lose their connection like that are wronged, but lets face it atm a lot more people are "exploiting" this humanitarian trait of CCPs then it actually helps.
So yeah, lets try and get these log-off tricks stopped! Make some constructive suggestions if you don't like the ones already posted, or come up with some critique points ___________________________
Bringing Lag to a place near you since 2004
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2009.02.28 20:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Valerius
Anyways, claiming that people that lose connection during a fight should be able to save their asses with really valid, but how many times have YOU gotten a disco EXACTLY after jumping through a gate into an enemy camp?
5 to 6 times... but not at a gate camp.
Living where I live... internet access is at best....random stability.
Point is you can't predict when...how..or where..
CCP cannot and will not be able to know the difference. Trust me... TCP/IP dictates it that way... pain in the ass.
So yes... constructive suggestions are needed... but don't say crap such as "aggro locks them on the grid" type things... that's just stupid.
If you really want a balanced fix for the jump gate.
IF: Player drops off during jump... force them back to the previous system.
Else: they arrive right where they came in at.
Just like usual. =============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com ===============
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Valerius
Ghetto Tech Ghetto Security Services
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Posted - 2009.02.28 21:10:00 -
[10]
how about decreasing the time you stay in space to say, 20 seconds. And giving agro on ships that are attacked even if player is not logged in.
IMO it really is tough luck for people that get disconnected and ganked. It's part of the game that you die every so often, no matter how smart you play it, but people use all these "features" in a way they were NOT meant to be. ___________________________
Bringing Lag to a place near you since 2004
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Karentaki
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.02.28 22:11:00 -
[11]
Fully supported! Freighters should not be able to travel through lowsec with total impunity, and Ctrl+Q should not be a valid substitute for intelligence or skill. This is actually a really nice solution to the issue. Seriously, compare the number of times you log out of eve intentionally, to the number of times your internet dies or you otherwise lose connection. I meanw hat are the chances of someone actually losing connection moments after jumping through a gate, just in time to save their freighter from a large camp.
Anyway, if you made all modules stay online when you lose connection, that would allow people who are winning a fight when they CTD, to actually survive.
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
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Zenethalos
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.02.28 23:50:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Zenethalos on 28/02/2009 23:52:59 This tactic is driving my corp and myself nuts. Our last contract against Kenzoku(bob) I think 3 freigters used this trick. They jumped in saw one of us at a gate CTRL Q'd and waited hours or even days to log back in. When they did they ctrl q'd again then logged back in putting them 1,000,000km away from the spot they got "dropped" at. We managed to catch one write up to follow next week in C&P if any one is interested. Not only that Kenzoku ships would fly blind into our scouts and ctrl q before any one could show up to gank them. Current record is 13'ish drops in a single day. Some of them were group drops where 2-3 would jump threw into a patrol and "drop" connection. And the best part is they would say By first or smack us with alts after they had logged. Mechanics need to change as it stands if you are buffer tanked and caught at a gate as long as you are cloaked ctrl q and just hope the fleet doesnt have the dps to gank you.
As too the issue of mass petitions as it stands if you do lose a ship due to a DC which has happened to me a few times with the pesky socket closed eror there is not enough evidence to reimburse the ship.
:edit: Spelling
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Buyerr
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Posted - 2009.03.01 02:24:00 -
[13]
simple and easy, make them warp back into the spot where they was before warp (so no matter how many times you log of you will end at that gate again. can't do anything more without having the huge possibillity of people dc'ing being F'ed I declare war on stupidity |
letni Smith
Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.
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Posted - 2009.03.01 04:43:00 -
[14]
Signed... needs to be fixed.. more so now that probes are changing so you will be nolonger able to quickly probe out someone who has logged off...
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Agent Unknown
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.01 07:49:00 -
[15]
Eh, not supported. I personally have issues with the client crashing randomly, thus making my ship vulnerable until I can get the client booted back up. This is just asking for trouble. ----------------------------------- "What can go wrong, will go wrong." |
Ms Delerium
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Posted - 2009.03.01 21:59:00 -
[16]
so this is a solution for gate camps in low sec???
Lets say I enter 0.4 and see a gate camp. I log off inmediately, and then..... wut happens???
im really interested on avoiding griefers ruining my gaming experience.
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Zenethalos
Minmatar Noir.
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Posted - 2009.03.02 01:41:00 -
[17]
If you ctrl q under cloak the aggressing party has 30 seconds to kill your ship. If they have a point on your ship it just disapears.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.03.02 03:38:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Valerius well they already fixed the timers getting killed after jumping. Atleast they dont reimburse for losses from it (yes, i jumped an ishtar warped to safespot and logged off due to RL, logged back in several hours later in high sec)
Anyways, claiming that people that lose connection during a fight should be able to save their asses with really valid, but how many times have YOU gotten a disco EXACTLY after jumping through a gate into an enemy camp?
Yes i agree those people that do lose their connection like that are wronged, but lets face it atm a lot more people are "exploiting" this humanitarian trait of CCPs then it actually helps.
So yeah, lets try and get these log-off tricks stopped! Make some constructive suggestions if you don't like the ones already posted, or come up with some critique points
Oh they fixed that? well that helps somewhat. but when camping a highsec-lowsec point that doesn't help much.
I try to not jump into hostile camps. but I can't say I have disconnected right after gate jumping often. usually disconnect mid combat, and that really sucks, as they have 15 mins to find me, or even 15 mins to kill me as they have me pointed.
I support that log off tactics need to be looked at.
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Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2009.03.02 14:18:00 -
[19]
I think the real issue is the double logging that makes ships not return to their original location. And that should really be adressed.
CEO | Diary of a pod pilot |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.03.03 15:05:00 -
[20]
The upcoming Tribune article should be required reading for anyone who has any influence to bring to bear on the log off abuse issue. ---
Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam |
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Zenethalos
Minmatar Noir.
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Posted - 2009.03.04 07:27:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Zenethalos on 04/03/2009 07:28:55 Edited by: Zenethalos on 04/03/2009 07:28:25 Edited by: Zenethalos on 04/03/2009 07:27:21 Found a post under warfare and tactics area of the forums where multiple freighter pilots openly admit this tactic. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1002892 If this doesn't sound like and exploit...
:EDIT: forgot to link
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Erichk Knaar
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.03.06 06:51:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Erichk Knaar on 06/03/2009 06:51:58 Signed.
If you did not take the adequate precautions and got your freighter into a situation where it will die, you should pay the price.
As it is, people would rather do this, than use scouts or escorts, in order to move under war dec or through hostile territory with near impunity. We can beat this with tactics, but its ridiculous, and very much against the spirit of Eve, imo.
At the very least, increase the logout timer to 60 seconds. This would still save many, many discos, but would allow those that do it to cheat be punished.
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Mickey Simon
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.03.06 06:52:00 -
[23]
Supported. To clarify: I support extending the dissappear timer when a person is being aggressed.
e.g. take these situations as an example as a pilot loses connection after jumping through a gate.
1) He is not aggressed as his ship aligns and enters emergency warp, and is not aggressed once it is "safe". His ship dissappears 30 seconds from when his connection was lost.
2) He is initially aggressed on the gate as he aligns for emergency warp, but his aggressors lack a warp scrambler or disruptor and he enters emergency warp regardless. His ship dissappears 30 seconds from the last time he was aggressed.
3) He is aggressed, and tackled on the gate. His ship is now at the mercy of his aggressors.
The same should be true for pilots that have been involved in aggression before logging off.
1) Player aggressors stop aggressing, and player logs off. He is not further aggressed and his ship dissappears after 15 minutes.
2) Players aggressors stop aggressing, and player logs off. He is scanned down and further aggressed. His ship is at the mercy of his aggressors.
3) Player loses connection in the middle of a fight. His ship is at the mercy of his aggressors.
I think that's probably the best way of fixing it.
You take a risk when you undock a ship, and while
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Xoria Krint
North Star Networks Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.03.06 14:43:00 -
[24]
Fix this!
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Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
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Posted - 2009.03.06 15:46:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Jason Edwards on 06/03/2009 15:46:15
Quote: I understand logging of when an enemy force would otherwise not catch you anyway, but the current state of people logging of in buffer tanked haulers/freighters at gates is stupid.
LRN2Scramble? LRN2Bubble? LRN2Probe?
Quote: We had just had a fight on gate, the carrier warped to the gate, carrier.....with 15minute aggro.....disconnects and warps to an e-safe.
So you didnt have him scramed or bubbled... and he could have warped anytime?
Quote: We scan him down, we tackle him, we start killing him. He warps back to station?!?!?!?!?!?!?! WTF?
LRN2Scramble? or LULZ stabbed carrier? LRN2HICTOR.
Quote: I assume what happened here is when he logged back in his client forced him to continue warping to where he was EVEN though he had a HIC pointing him.
Impossible. You cannot warp if pointed by a hic.
Quote: A providence runs one of our camps by logging off, then logging of right after he logs on so he doesn't warp back to the gate. <- DOES THIS NOT SOUND LIKE AN EXPLOIT TO YOU?
Lrn2scamble? Lrn2bubble?
Quote: And all the time we have buffer tanked haulers logging off right after they jump through gates so they don't have 15min aggro, and if they use the above "trick" its IMPOSSIBLE to catch them.
Lrn2scamble? Lrn2bubble? ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded. |
Zenethalos
Minmatar Noir.
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Posted - 2009.03.07 20:34:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jason Edwards Edited by: Jason Edwards on 06/03/2009 15:46:15
Quote: I understand logging of when an enemy force would otherwise not catch you anyway, but the current state of people logging of in buffer tanked haulers/freighters at gates is stupid.
LRN2Scramble? LRN2Bubble? LRN2Probe?
Quote: We had just had a fight on gate, the carrier warped to the gate, carrier.....with 15minute aggro.....disconnects and warps to an e-safe.
So you didnt have him scramed or bubbled... and he could have warped anytime?
Quote: We scan him down, we tackle him, we start killing him. He warps back to station?!?!?!?!?!?!?! WTF?
LRN2Scramble? or LULZ stabbed carrier? LRN2HICTOR.
Quote: I assume what happened here is when he logged back in his client forced him to continue warping to where he was EVEN though he had a HIC pointing him.
Impossible. You cannot warp if pointed by a hic.
Quote: A providence runs one of our camps by logging off, then logging of right after he logs on so he doesn't warp back to the gate. <- DOES THIS NOT SOUND LIKE AN EXPLOIT TO YOU?
Lrn2scamble? Lrn2bubble?
Quote: And all the time we have buffer tanked haulers logging off right after they jump through gates so they don't have 15min aggro, and if they use the above "trick" its IMPOSSIBLE to catch them.
Lrn2scamble? Lrn2bubble?
You are an idiot. Do you even play this game? Go back to WoW. If a freighter/any other ship jumps into a system and see's a giant camp all they have to do is CTRL Q and all you have to do is have a large enough buffer to last circa 30 seconds before your ship disapears. So say the target is bubbled, infin-point and has 40 more points of scram on him his ship simply dissapears, poof gone. As long as they have not been shot before or not shot at any one before they CTRL Q they dissapear. This is CCP's way of helping to protect the people that get randrom drops or have an unstable connection. At which point if your connection is untable use a damn scout ask a friend. Again last night we had another hauler try this exact thing. Too bad for him his mammoth did not have the tank for 10 bs plus support. CCP needs to stop being so damn nice it just facilitates the means to exploit.
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Jimer Lins
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2009.03.07 20:48:00 -
[27]
Once again, the problem is not being able to point, bubble, scram, whatever. The problem is this:
IF THE PLAYER LOGS OUT BEFORE AGGRESSION HAS OCCURED BY BEING HIT WITH A HOSTILE MODULE OR BY ENGAGING IN A HOSTILE ACT, THEY VANISH IN 30 SECONDS REGARDLESS OF ANY OTHER CONDITIONS.
Corp killboard-How to Kill Logoffskis |
Aethrwolf
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Posted - 2009.03.08 05:38:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Agent Unknown Eh, not supported. I personally have issues with the client crashing randomly, thus making my ship vulnerable until I can get the client booted back up. This is just asking for trouble.
what kind of crash? just client or client making your system crash.. had an issue recently with the client crashing my laptop randomly.. had to uninstall and reinstall.. hasnt crashed since..
hard to fix but should be looked into.. supported
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I like'cake
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Posted - 2009.03.09 05:14:00 -
[29]
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Jimer Lins
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2009.03.09 17:48:00 -
[30]
I know that there's enough people irked at this exploit being abused so much and that there are some relatively simple changes that would make it less abusable.
My personal favorite is the "login timer", which would be like a reverse aggro timer.
1) If you log in in space (and only if you log in in space) your ship must remain for a minimum of 5 minutes, during which time it can be aggroed regardless of whether you are connected or not. 2) For the 30 second timer after disconnect, you are vulnerable to aggro mechanics. 3) After logging out, your warpin point never moves until you have actually completed a warp back to it, regardless of how many times you log out.
That would mean that anyone who logged in, then logged out to move their warpin would be vulnerable to being probed out and aggroed within 5 minutes, and would take the logoffski==safe brigade and cut them off at the knees.
It would also mean that those who logoff under gatecloak (or after hitting the jump button) would be able to be tagged with aggro without having to resort to silliness like an AOE weapon on a covert ops.
Corp killboard-How to Kill Logoffskis |
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