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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Katja Faith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
55
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Posted - 2012.04.26 22:49:00 -
[61] - Quote
Prevent the aggressors from hopping into corps that just declared a war. Require the corp members of a dec'ing corp to remain in that corp for one year; only way out is biomass.
See, I can do stupid suggestions, too. |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
259
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 22:49:00 -
[62] - Quote
Corbin Blair wrote:okst666 wrote:Why should corphopping be nerfed?
Because it makes the wardec system pointless. And because god hates carebears. I know, I asked an amarrian.
CCP made the wardec system pointless in highsec when they allowed corp stacking. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
735
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 22:50:00 -
[63] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:CCP Paradox wrote:I actually didn't want to steer this topic to a discussion on a specific solution. It is far more valuable to us (Team Super Friends) to see your own opinions on this. I won't yet tell you what we currently are doing on it, but will tell you that we are (and have) already done something about it internally. So please, keep posting away with experiences. This will help assure us that we are either going in the right direction with our solutions or not. How about this? The current system of allowing people to leave corp at will with no penalties is the correct one and anything that forces people to stay in corp is bad. Because the moment you do it for the offensive side the gankers will at once demand you "hold" their targets in place. Edit: As expected just look a few posts above. First they demand to hit the POS then of course they show their true colors. Want of easy ganks. Way ahead of you, I am already demanding this.
And its not a desire of easy ganks, I'm a null sec character I have no use for war decs. But war is a part of Eve, as is ship destruction, avoiding these realities should not be as simple as hitting "quit corp".
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
None ofthe Above
174
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Posted - 2012.04.26 23:40:00 -
[64] - Quote
Gogela wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Alexa Coates wrote:CCP Paradox wrote:You probably wouldn't be making this thread if you had read the dev blogs and Fanfest presentations from Super Friends. Just sayin' daaaaaaamn op, must hurt to get burned by dev's. Who really got burned?!?! lol looks like the DEV's pithy comment got hammered so he back pedaled: Read the thread on Crimewatch. Older one on Wardec systemThis thread is stupid.
Sorry Gogela, you and Paradox are wrong about this one.
Nothing in the CCP proposals deals with the individual character's leave corp, then rejoin corp for gank scenario. (Aside from the inadequate "stain" proposal, which isn't going to stop this.)
You guys aren't reading closely enough before declaring the OP stupid.
As for solutions:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:What I want to see happen: quitting a corp that is at war results in a cooldown of 7-30 days before you can rejoin the same corp.
What CCP will do: Something fitting with the rest of the half-baked Crimewatch ideas they're pushing.
Floppy is dead right. (Although not sure if the cooldown needs to be longer than 24 hours, but should be at least that.)
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None ofthe Above
174
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Posted - 2012.04.26 23:44:00 -
[65] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:CCP Paradox wrote:I actually didn't want to steer this topic to a discussion on a specific solution. It is far more valuable to us (Team Super Friends) to see your own opinions on this. I won't yet tell you what we currently are doing on it, but will tell you that we are (and have) already done something about it internally. So please, keep posting away with experiences. This will help assure us that we are either going in the right direction with our solutions or not. How about this? The current system of allowing people to leave corp at will with no penalties is the correct one and anything that forces people to stay in corp is bad. Because the moment you do it for the offensive side the gankers will at once demand you "hold" their targets in place. Edit: As expected just look a few posts above. First they demand to hit the POS then of course they show their true colors. Want of easy ganks.
Yeah the followups are embarrassing but the original issue is still valid.
Agreed that I can't see restricting people (non-officers anyway) from leaving corp working out well. I don't think the war should follow them either. Rejoining on the other hand seems like something that could be restricted. 24 hour plus cooldown or stasis seems appropriate.
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MadMuppet
Kerguelen Station
284
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Posted - 2012.04.27 00:03:00 -
[66] - Quote
Anything that turns corps in to prisons is not going to fly. The question would be what percentage of vested players would accept the NPC corp taxes or quit because they could be engaged with no viable option to defend themselves? Turning players into unwilling slaves is not a game.
If you were to run from a fight and get cornered in a station with no option but die or log off, how long would you put up with that before you would take your time and money elsewhere? While Eve is considered a sandbox, nobody is going to play in it if they keep getting buried up to their waist and all the other players keep coming by to tickle their feet.
I don't always finish my commentary, but when I do |
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Hedion University Amarr Empire
55
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 00:06:00 -
[67] - Quote
Parsee789 wrote:Kobal81 wrote:HTFU I say CCP should make it so that you can Force War Targets out of stations. Force them to commit to a fight.
force them so you can grief them you mean. Yeah we totally wanna make the industrial players leave the game. Sounds great to me
Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
738
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 00:22:00 -
[68] - Quote
MadMuppet wrote:Anything that turns corps in to prisons is not going to fly. The question would be what percentage of vested players would accept the NPC corp taxes or quit because they could be engaged with no viable option to defend themselves? Turning players into unwilling slaves is not a game.
If you were to run from a fight and get cornered in a station with no option but die or log off, how long would you put up with that before you would take your time and money elsewhere? While Eve is considered a sandbox, nobody is going to play in it if they keep getting buried up to their waist and all the other players keep coming by to tickle their feet.
Well if you don't want to risk PvP in high sec then we should just continue allowing corp hopping to avoid conflict, and nerf everything profitable in high sec into the ground to compensate.
Either you allow some kind of PvP interaction with PvE, or you radically reduce the profit of that PvE. This is the way it has always been, in all well designed games but especially in Eve.
Personally I'd rather see it made harder to avoid PvP, than see high sec nerfed into oblivion. And it will be nerfed into oblivion, as long as it is a risk free zone with relatively high profit people will continue to call for nerfs. At least by allowing some kind of structured PvP you could create an element of risk that goes beyond suicide ganking.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Endeavour Starfleet
813
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 00:53:00 -
[69] - Quote
Just say you want easy ganks and be done with it. Hisec has already been nerfed to the ground. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
739
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 01:18:00 -
[70] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Just say you want easy ganks and be done with it. Hisec has already been nerfed to the ground. Well to be honest I think it's a bit too early to say in terms of incursions, people will adapt and we can judge their success then.
If you want a PvE zone for easily avoidable PvP though then it really should be a baby training zone, like they are in other games. Not a "10% reduction in profit for time invested" zone, literally just a largely worthless zone for players only just starting out.
*EDIT: As for your ganks comment, feel free to look up this corp on battleclinic. Whilst I freely admit this is an alt corp, it is set up to support my main accounts, and it is quite obvious we never operate in empire space. We are syndicate based.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
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Rekon X
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2012.04.27 02:16:00 -
[71] - Quote
Parsee789 wrote:Marcus Ichiro wrote:Easiest solution:
Actually look for decent fights instead of picking on carebears and being surprised when they balk at the prospect of losing their stuff. Did you even read my post? I got wardecced, but the aggressors refuse to fight us face to face. Instead they just want easy kills and they simply jump corps so we can't shoot at them without getting concorded.
They are cowards. That is what hi sec war decs are about. To give the cowards a way to scout out weak targets in the safety of hisec and war dec them.
They don't expect anyone to fight back.
What corp was it? I don't care what you think, if you ever think at all. |
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Hedion University Amarr Empire
55
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 02:32:00 -
[72] - Quote
Rekon X wrote:Parsee789 wrote:Marcus Ichiro wrote:Easiest solution:
Actually look for decent fights instead of picking on carebears and being surprised when they balk at the prospect of losing their stuff. Did you even read my post? I got wardecced, but the aggressors refuse to fight us face to face. Instead they just want easy kills and they simply jump corps so we can't shoot at them without getting concorded. They are cowards. That is what hi sec war decs are about. To give the cowards a way to scout out weak targets in the safety of hisec and war dec them. They don't expect anyone to fight back. What corp was it?
isnt that what the new thing is for where you can hire out mercenaries? They way those cowards never get their weak targets and the merc groups get to kick their asses instead?
Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game |
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Hedion University Amarr Empire
55
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 02:34:00 -
[73] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Just say you want easy ganks and be done with it. Hisec has already been nerfed to the ground.
The cowards never say that straight out. They hide in alt corps and pretend they're based out of Syndicate
Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
741
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 02:40:00 -
[74] - Quote
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Just say you want easy ganks and be done with it. Hisec has already been nerfed to the ground. The cowards never say that straight out. They hide in alt corps and pretend they're based out of Syndicate I especially like the irony of a 9 day old forum alt making that remark :) I could swap to posting on a PvP alt if that you would make you feel better?
I haven't killed anything in empire on any of my characters in years, in fact I haven't even PvP'd much recently. Mostly I've just been amassing a giant pile of loot because I feel like it.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
165
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Posted - 2012.04.27 03:09:00 -
[75] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:MadMuppet wrote:Anything that turns corps in to prisons is not going to fly. The question would be what percentage of vested players would accept the NPC corp taxes or quit because they could be engaged with no viable option to defend themselves? Turning players into unwilling slaves is not a game.
If you were to run from a fight and get cornered in a station with no option but die or log off, how long would you put up with that before you would take your time and money elsewhere? While Eve is considered a sandbox, nobody is going to play in it if they keep getting buried up to their waist and all the other players keep coming by to tickle their feet.
Well if you don't want to risk PvP in high sec then we should just continue allowing corp hopping to avoid conflict, and nerf everything profitable in high sec into the ground to compensate. .
TBH I see more problems with people corp hopping in & out seeking to find easy KM's then hopping out once they get targeted back. So its sort of like hitting someone when noone's looking in the back of the head then running to a cop & sticking out thier tongues saying naaa naaa when the person tries to smack them back. Maybe a deposit system is needed for people that join a wardecked corp & if they leave before the wardeck is over the ISK goes to the other corp?
To the whiners : CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
741
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 03:14:00 -
[76] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:MadMuppet wrote:Anything that turns corps in to prisons is not going to fly. The question would be what percentage of vested players would accept the NPC corp taxes or quit because they could be engaged with no viable option to defend themselves? Turning players into unwilling slaves is not a game.
If you were to run from a fight and get cornered in a station with no option but die or log off, how long would you put up with that before you would take your time and money elsewhere? While Eve is considered a sandbox, nobody is going to play in it if they keep getting buried up to their waist and all the other players keep coming by to tickle their feet.
Well if you don't want to risk PvP in high sec then we should just continue allowing corp hopping to avoid conflict, and nerf everything profitable in high sec into the ground to compensate. . TBH I see more problems with people corp hopping in & out seeking to find easy KM's then hopping out once they get targeted back. So its sort of like hitting someone when noone's looking in the back of the head then running to a cop & sticking out thier tongues saying naaa naaa when the person tries to smack them back. Maybe a deposit system is needed for people that join a wardecked corp & if they leave before the wardeck is over the ISK goes to the other corp? I think the currently proposed mechanics are fine for that, once you leave a corp at war you cannot rejoin it while that war is active. If griefers try corp hopping they'll have wasted a war dec, and the fees, and have only an empty corp to show for it.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
76
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 04:27:00 -
[77] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:CCP Paradox wrote:You probably wouldn't be making this thread if you had read the dev blogs and Fanfest presentations from Super Friends. Just sayin' Or if he and his friends move on to low/null sec, who cares of wardec stufz'n bliz'n crapiz'mz out there? @OP Look between your legs and if you find something looking like a pair of balls, move on to serious business. And just because I'm a VERY nice guy, can I ask you to cry me a river? Jesus me wants to cry a river with that dudette play'in my gitar and all tr+ál+ál+á ...
Ah, more observant anyone?
A guy who cheats on his girlfriend is almost always a guy with options who has probably already replaced his girlfriend before she leaves. Since this is normally what women... at least when they are young and attractive... do to guys, it cause the "poor" girls head to explode and then you get stupid songs like that.
That's song is what is going on in the girls head. Pure fantasy.
You know what is going on in the guys head?(the kind of guy who has a girlfriend and can get another girl to sleep with him while dating the first and chooses to do so)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g5Hz17C4is
Now if you mean the married guy who hasn't had sex in two years cheats on his wife... yes she probably wants the Divorce and is quite proud she can now do so with "justification". The appropriate response is to laugh in her face. This sets the proper tone and has a zillion percent better chance of keeping her. If you logically believe that is a good idea at that point. That said, only delusional women will pull out the divorce after forty. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
897
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 04:46:00 -
[78] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote: But the issue here is bouncing in and out of the corp that has made the war declaration. A balanced solution might be if you leave a corp that is at war, you cannot rejoin that corp until it is not at war, or one week has passed.
A week is probably too long. My feelings are:
- You should always be able to drop out into a NPC corp without much difficulty. - There should be limits on how fast you can cycle between corps (or between alliances as a corporate entity). - Director kicks should be put into a queue and take effect at the next session change (or downtime). - Once you change corps, you should have a 24-48 hour lockout on being able to apply to a new corp. - Dropping corp actions should be queued and take effect at the next session change. - Corps should probably only be able to change alliance membership every 3-7 days.
Even if you could only change corps once per day, it would slow down a lot of the exploits. Especially if you were forced to session change before it takes effect.
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Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
742
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 04:49:00 -
[79] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote:Vincent Athena wrote: But the issue here is bouncing in and out of the corp that has made the war declaration. A balanced solution might be if you leave a corp that is at war, you cannot rejoin that corp until it is not at war, or one week has passed.
A week is probably too long. My feelings are: - You should always be able to drop out into a NPC corp without much difficulty. - There should be limits on how fast you can cycle between corps (or between alliances as a corporate entity). - Director kicks should be put into a queue and take effect at the next session change (or downtime). - Once you change corps, you should have a 24-48 hour lockout on being able to apply to a new corp. - Dropping corp actions should be queued and take effect at the next session change. - Corps should probably only be able to change alliance membership every 3-7 days. Even if you could only change corps once per day, it would slow down a lot of the exploits. Especially if you were forced to session change before it takes effect. So... Where are the buffs to griefing in here?
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
611
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 10:43:00 -
[80] - Quote
MadMuppet wrote:Anything that turns corps in to prisons is not going to fly. The question would be what percentage of vested players would accept the NPC corp taxes or quit because they could be engaged with no viable option to defend themselves? Turning players into unwilling slaves is not a game.
If you were to run from a fight and get cornered in a station with no option but die or log off, how long would you put up with that before you would take your time and money elsewhere? While Eve is considered a sandbox, nobody is going to play in it if they keep getting buried up to their waist and all the other players keep coming by to tickle their feet.
I believe in any military organization, even though it is not exactly a good thing, there is not much one can do to stop some of them from going AWOL.
AWOL is punished.
Mayhaps......an ISK Fee for leaving the decced Corp. There isn't anything left for you to do to Carebears. -áGo, kill them some more. They're like fungus or bacteria, they won't die and they won't stop. All you have to show for years of organized harassment campaigns against them is ... nothing. |
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Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1055
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 10:49:00 -
[81] - Quote
Parsee789 wrote: Highsec wars are a complete joke
TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
611
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 10:52:00 -
[82] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Parsee789 wrote: Highsec wars are a complete joke
You were saying ?????? Speak up, we can't here you....... There isn't anything left for you to do to Carebears. -áGo, kill them some more. They're like fungus or bacteria, they won't die and they won't stop. All you have to show for years of organized harassment campaigns against them is ... nothing. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
792
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 11:00:00 -
[83] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:Parsee789 wrote: Highsec wars are a complete joke
You were saying ?????? Speak up, we can't here you....... HIGH SEC WARS ARE A COMPLETE JOKE.
And they're getting nerfed even more in the next patch.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
611
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 11:31:00 -
[84] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:Parsee789 wrote: Highsec wars are a complete joke
You were saying ?????? Speak up, we can't here you....... HIGH SEC WARS ARE A COMPLETE JOKE. And they're getting nerfed even more in the next patch.
Expound upon why it's a nerf. We are all ears. There isn't anything left for you to do to Carebears. -áGo, kill them some more. They're like fungus or bacteria, they won't die and they won't stop. All you have to show for years of organized harassment campaigns against them is ... nothing. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
792
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 11:43:00 -
[85] - Quote
Removing corp hopping, to prevent aggressors swapping decs or jumping in/out to avoid scouts.
Simultaneously doing nothing about defenders dropping corp disbanding and reforming to avoid decs, war decs remain just as easy to evade, but it becomes almost impossible to sneak up on a target.
This is a net nerf.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Zora'e
Nasty Pope
9
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Posted - 2012.04.27 13:11:00 -
[86] - Quote
My humble opinion, and I say this with all sincerity. When you attempt to force someone to play the game the way YOU think they should when they have no desire to because they are enjoying playing the game the way they are, the end results will be people leaving the game. As the majority of people live in High-Sec, and a fair (and large) number of them are people who would rather not have to deal with griefers.. do you really think CCP is going to toast their bottom line?
Of course, there are those wars where one corps mouthy members just beg to be slapped down and then when they get war decced they all bail out. So at the same time........
It's a hard road to walk. You have to balance both those who have no desire for pvp, and those who do -vs- those who's only reason for pvp is to grief people who have no desire for pvp. On the one side, it's legit, on the other it's bullying and while EVE is a cold harsh mistress I see no reason why CCP should pander to the psychotic asshats who's only joy in life is picking on the handicapped kid and stealing his lolly.
Myself... I just don't see any real viable simple solution, all I see is things being complicated, and looking like they are becoming more complicated.
Simplest fix would be to get rid of highsec all together and make everywhere 0.0. You'd lose about 1/2 the playerbase (give or take a bit) but any new players coming into the game will have to scrap and fight from the get go, and people who stay will be people who don't mind the scrap and fight either.
But again.. I don't see that happening as CCP isn't going to toast their bottom line.
*sighs* I think i'mma move back to WH's, at least there you know anybody in your home is either friend, or someone trying to kill you, and all the WD mechanics are worthless.
~Z In EVE Online...-á-áA Friend will calm you down when you are angry after getting Ganked.., but a Best Friend will fly along beside you commanding a Strike Group singing "Someones Gonna Get It!!!".-á ~Zora'e |
Klotzak
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2012.04.27 13:53:00 -
[87] - Quote
I think this solution couldw work.
At the moment a corp gets deced, all members get flagged for war and remain flagged until the war ends. The flag carries over with the player despite corp change. Problem solved. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
899
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 14:34:00 -
[88] - Quote
Klotzak wrote: At the moment a corp gets deced, all members get flagged for war and remain flagged until the war ends. The flag carries over with the player despite corp change. Problem solved.
Will never happen as it would result in mass unsubs. |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
1241
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 14:48:00 -
[89] - Quote
Please note that we will completely overhaul the current wardec mechanics with the Inferno expansion on May 22.
A good insight into our plans were first published during Fanfest 2012, the presentation and discussion is available here.
CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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MadMuppet
Kerguelen Station
284
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Posted - 2012.04.27 15:28:00 -
[90] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:MadMuppet wrote:Anything that turns corps in to prisons is not going to fly. The question would be what percentage of vested players would accept the NPC corp taxes or quit because they could be engaged with no viable option to defend themselves? Turning players into unwilling slaves is not a game.
If you were to run from a fight and get cornered in a station with no option but die or log off, how long would you put up with that before you would take your time and money elsewhere? While Eve is considered a sandbox, nobody is going to play in it if they keep getting buried up to their waist and all the other players keep coming by to tickle their feet.
I believe in any military organization, even though it is not exactly a good thing, there is not much one can do to stop some of them from going AWOL. AWOL is punished. Mayhaps......an ISK Fee for leaving the decced Corp.
And if you work for a company and you quit, they decide if they will rehire you in the future. Corps are not necessarily a military organization. They are JUST an organization. It is a subtle thing that people want to overlook when having these discussions because it is against their interests to acknowledge that not all characters are combat pilots. I don't always finish my commentary, but when I do |
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