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Unn4m3D
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.05.11 11:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
I don't get it why the tengu is so much better than a drake (At least with my skills) and thats what's holding me from getting a tengu myself.
I mean, fitting on EFT i get a 498 dps with the tengu and 429 with the drake, the tank is 726 tengu vs 558 drake ( Is that a huge difference? i can't tell for sure )
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Selw kotsidakia
Three Deep Cuts
0
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Posted - 2012.05.11 12:10:00 -
[32] - Quote
Unn4m3D wrote:I don't get it why the tengu is so much better than a drake (At least with my skills) and thats what's holding me from getting a tengu myself.
I mean, fitting on EFT i get a 498 dps with the tengu and 429 with the drake, the tank is 726 tengu vs 558 drake ( Is that a huge difference? i can't tell for sure )
With caldari offensive sub level5 a tengu can reach over 700dps with fury scourge missiles. Also about the tank, tengu is depending more on speed and sig tanking. Its quite fun to see the tengu passive tank 10+ BS. While using an active tank fit. |
Unn4m3D
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.05.11 12:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
700 dps with heavy missiles or assault? |
marVLs
12
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Posted - 2012.05.11 12:39:00 -
[34] - Quote
July Oumis wrote:Performance --------SP required:
Tengu : 8/10 -------- 5/10 Drake : 3/10 -------- 4/10 Nighthawk : 6/10 -------- 9/10 Raven : 5/10 -------- 7/10 Navy Raven : 7/10 -------- 7/10 Golem :8/10 -------- 9/10
Nope, Raven Navy 9/10 in terms of perf, it finish 90% of missions faster than tengu, it's known fact |
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
128
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Posted - 2012.05.12 01:28:00 -
[35] - Quote
I went over the Fittings, hundreds of fittings, over and over.
The Navy raven is Meh, it was OK, the Scorpion did a little bit better About the time when I started to try and make Armor builds of them, I was like F K this, Im gonna get a Tengu or a Rattle, whichever better Deal I find, thats what il train for.
The Tengu is fast, has acceptable DPS. The Rattle is better with perfect skills, in every way except in missions where you gotta sloaboat to a jumpgate.
I went with the rattle Mostly because it looks cooler, and its got one HELL of a perma tank, that means I could just alt tab between my Studies and the level 4 mission and just do both at the same time.
Another option I have bin thinking about recently, just for the LoL's
activ Nightmare+ active tank rattle, both ships with Energy transfers on each other, blitzing missions long range. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
466
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Posted - 2012.05.12 02:32:00 -
[36] - Quote
Unn4m3D wrote:I don't get it why the tengu is so much better than a drake (At least with my skills) and thats what's holding me from getting a tengu myself.
I mean, fitting on EFT i get a 498 dps with the tengu and 429 with the drake, the tank is 726 tengu vs 558 drake ( Is that a huge difference? i can't tell for sure )
You're definitely doing something wrong. I'm going to guess you're trying to passive tank the Tengu? If so, don't.
My cheap fit exploration Tengu lists at 494 EM dps (more with the cheap 3%s slotted in my clone). That's right, ignoring the kinetic bonus. A high sec mission queen Tengu should get you mid 600s before implants and hit ~725 when you factor those in. And that's without a Bay Loading Accelerator, which really is a matter of taste.
Is it going to rival a Nightmare or a Machariel? Not on most missions, no. But it's going to clean up against most other ships due to damage projection on top of raw damage.
Edit: all of the above quoting HM damage. Because HAMs are more for EFT than L4s. |
William Pemer
TBDB
0
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Posted - 2012.05.12 03:08:00 -
[37] - Quote
What missions are you people running that require a tengu tank in the 600+ range? 400+ EFT dps tank for a mission running tengu is crazy over kill.
EFT is a great program, but has a lot of holes in it such as the effect of sig radius, and speed on incoming damage.
Overtanking your tengu is just asking to have it ganked. |
Cushi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.05.12 09:47:00 -
[38] - Quote
Raven class isn't used for much other missions. Drake/Tengu path is more versatile, good for wormholes, plexing and pvp. So I would go drake then tengu for that reason. Only problem with tengu is it is very gankable.
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Azara Erata
Ashfell Celestial Equilibrium POD-SQUAD
0
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Posted - 2012.05.12 10:38:00 -
[39] - Quote
Cushi wrote:Raven class isn't used for much other missions. Drake/Tengu path is more versatile, good for wormholes, plexing and pvp. So I would go drake then tengu for that reason. Only problem with tengu is it is very gankable.
The thing is, going the Tengu/Drake path inevitably leads you half a step away from the Raven path...And the raven path gets you into and doing L4s faster than going straight for a Tengu from a Drake. Seriously -- Just two more skills from Drake to Raven, really (Caldar BS IV or so and Cruise Missiles). |
xVx dreadnaught
The Dude's Interstellar Enterprizes Quixotic Hegemony
51
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Posted - 2012.05.12 16:44:00 -
[40] - Quote
I may do a return to missions soon... Haven't done any since I started hitting incursions and living in WH's.
But when I did, I used 2 toons. My second char in a NI Raven with heavy tank and cruise missiles. This character in a Nighthawk providing a ganglink.
The Raven used Fury and was set for anti BS, the Nighthawk went with a bit less tank for more TP's and focused on anti-frig and anti-cruiser. The tank on the NH just really needs to be tough enough to teal with any "Additional waves" Because the Raven usually soaked up the full room agro first.
I think if I do make a return to missions it would be a combo of marauders or T3's I can fly Kronos and Paladin on this char, the Golem on my other. would most likely just blitz my missions for an hour and BM a wreck in each pocket, then salvage. Rinse repeat.
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Orlacc
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
147
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Posted - 2012.05.13 01:39:00 -
[41] - Quote
The Rattlesnake should be renamed "The Narcoleptic." Even with top skills it takes forever to finish a level 4, completely ruining isk per hour. I prefer a Machariel for fast efficient missioning. |
zappp brannigann
Zorlakian Air Corp
0
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Posted - 2012.05.13 11:45:00 -
[42] - Quote
It all depends.
Missioning against kinetic weak rats 90% of the time - tegnu is good but eats through ammo. Plan on moving or don't mission against kin weak - raven or scorpion hull will pull ahead with selectable damage types. |
Kalli Brixzat
30
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Posted - 2012.05.14 17:46:00 -
[43] - Quote
In my experience, this is what you want for mission speed-running (top 5):
1. Machariel 2. Tengu 3. CNR 4. Vargur 5. Nightmare (#1 vs. EM/Therm-weak rats) |
Five Thirty
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
71
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Posted - 2012.05.14 18:21:00 -
[44] - Quote
It's not all about speed, which is why I love my rattlesnake.
With excellent skills, it's a great mission boat. After the summer patch and the introduction of drone damage mods, it will be even nicer. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
76
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Posted - 2012.05.14 19:26:00 -
[45] - Quote
lets just say there is a reason why the rattlesnake is by far the cheapest pirate faction bs....
a ton of the tengu's tank comes from damage reduction, its small and fast. you can hit all the triggers and just keep going (taki out webbers can be required)
tengu and cnr are both very awesome. imo can't be wrong with either. but it would make sense to try out the missions in a cheaper drake or raven just so you don't get burned too hard if you lose a ship. |
Five Thirty
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
71
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Posted - 2012.05.14 22:11:00 -
[46] - Quote
Cheapest generally means least popular. It doesn't mean bad. It is my opinion that it is cheapest partly due to the fact that nobody used rattlesnakes for incursions. Because incursions generated additional demand for Machs and Vindis, their price rose considerably.
Considering you want to have good drone skills, as well as missile and shield skills to fly a rattlesnake well, perhaps the training time is too prohibitive when you can skill into a mach or vindi quite a bit faster? |
Leetha Layne
Javalinas
15
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Posted - 2012.05.15 02:24:00 -
[47] - Quote
It's a question of play style. Some like to go in guns blazing, others don't mind taking an hour to fly a mission as long as it is relatively risk free. |
Nuela
Beacon Light Corporation Beacon Light Alliance
80
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Posted - 2012.05.15 18:45:00 -
[48] - Quote
marVLs wrote:July Oumis wrote:Performance --------SP required:
Tengu : 8/10 -------- 5/10 Drake : 3/10 -------- 4/10 Nighthawk : 6/10 -------- 9/10 Raven : 5/10 -------- 7/10 Navy Raven : 7/10 -------- 7/10 Golem :8/10 -------- 9/10 Nope, Raven Navy 9/10 in terms of perf, it finish 90% of missions faster than tengu, it's known fact
I have down extensive missioning in the tengu, Navy Raven and Golem...and Navy Raven is my favorite. The Tengu is a fine boat and probably about equal to the Navy Raven so it comes down to preference. The Golem?.... ahhh no. |
Cloned S0ul
Blood Fanatics
41
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Posted - 2012.05.15 23:47:00 -
[49] - Quote
Ishanmae wrote:July Oumis wrote:Performance --------SP required:
Tengu : 8/10 -------- 5/10 Drake : 3/10 -------- 4/10 Nighthawk : 6/10 -------- 9/10 Raven : 5/10 -------- 7/10 Navy Raven : 7/10 -------- 7/10 Golem :8/10 -------- 9/10 Nice list, but you should factor in the price element.... Tengu only performs that well with faction and deadspace mods... You can have a full T2 Nighthawk (including rigs) for about 450M. Thus why it is my ship of choice, despite being more skill intensive and not performing as well as a Tengu... I'm not lacking in skills, but in playtime to make the cash for the shinies It's down to a matter of balance and personal preference in the end!
Is possible to run lvl4 with some cheap stuf, i use tengu with t2 med shield booster named shield amplifer mix of t2 named hardeners - invul + ab ,ccc rigs (cap stable) t2 havy launcher with perfect missile with all specialisations 680dps with fury missile, and it work so great that i always got full shield withaut faction items, im abble to tank all spawns form the assault lvl 4 or pirate invasion etc, tengu it self got awesome bonuses to shileld boost and speed around 680m/s, aglility, range and scan resolution, for me is ultimate all in one ship, somtime i think this ship is overpowerd...
To get super tank on Battleship player need somthing like gist c xl etc bs got low scan resolution, speed and crap agility... Faction bs with good faction items cost more than tengu. |
Tredegar
Burning Space
0
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Posted - 2012.05.16 12:06:00 -
[50] - Quote
I use a Cerberus for my L4 mission running. But I do mission running as a hobby and not as a main source of income. |
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Dato Koppla
Perkone Caldari State
21
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Posted - 2012.05.16 23:00:00 -
[51] - Quote
Nuela wrote:marVLs wrote:[quote=July Oumis]
Nope, Raven Navy 9/10 in terms of perf, it finish 90% of missions faster than tengu, it's known fact I have down extensive missioning in the tengu, Navy Raven and Golem...and Navy Raven is my favorite. The Tengu is a fine boat and probably about equal to the Navy Raven so it comes down to preference. The Golem?.... ahhh no.
This, people give the Tengu wayyy too much credit when it comes to L4s, Navy Ravens are just as good with a much lower price tag, however you need T2 cruise to milk the maximum performance out of a N.Raven which is a long and niche skill, as opposed to T2 Heavies which is the best non-support missile skill.
Golem is micro-hell with 60+km capped range, and Torps suck worse than Cruise, combined with huge training time, I never bothered.
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Kalpel
KBM
14
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Posted - 2012.05.19 05:45:00 -
[52] - Quote
Mr Chili Palmer wrote:As above i belive i am coming close to been able to run some lvl4 missions, what boat is suitable for this from the caldari shipyards? i am thinking a Raven
thanks
buy a Tengu and be done with it!
You failed to target nothing!-áGëívGëí online |
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
62
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Posted - 2012.05.19 22:02:00 -
[53] - Quote
Dato Koppla wrote:[This, people give the Tengu wayyy too much credit when it comes to L4s, Navy Ravens are just as good with a much lower price tag, however you need T2 cruise to milk the maximum performance out of a N.Raven which is a long and niche skill, as opposed to T2 Heavies which is the best non-support missile skill.
Golem is micro-hell with 60+km capped range, and Torps suck worse than Cruise, combined with huge training time, I never bothered.
Price difference between a L4 Tengu and a CNR is about 30-50m. So not much lower actually, and you do need T2 cruises as you said - while T2 heavies are much more used on various ship hulls. For a pure mission runner I guess that doesn't matter really tho.
If you have T2 cruises, the CNR offers more flexibility in terms of damage types and damage resists.
The Tengu makes dealing with large amounts of frigates easier tho, and the speed tank is achievable with just T2 mods.
It all depends what kinda missions you get the most. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
84
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Posted - 2012.05.20 05:39:00 -
[54] - Quote
Dato Koppla wrote:This, people give the Tengu wayyy too much credit when it comes to L4s, Navy Ravens are just as good with a much lower price tag, however you need T2 cruise to milk the maximum performance out of a N.Raven which is a long and niche skill, as opposed to T2 Heavies which is the best non-support missile skill.
Golem is micro-hell with 60+km capped range, and Torps suck worse than Cruise, combined with huge training time, I never bothered.
it deserves a lot of credit though. tanks full room aggro so you can hit every trigger asap and get the blitz done (or swap to fofs). also much more agile than a battleship so you get there and back faster. granted it is a bit of an ammo hose, loses dps when not using kinetic, and can get higher dps from battleships so if you go for a full clear a battleship hull will probably win. navy raven does about the same launcher dps as a tengu, but it can swap to any damage type and it gets a drone bay.
with skills and implants the golem is pretty nice. works quite well for some missions. although 3 tp does get annoying after a bit, and the limited range can result in some fall asleep moments. rage torps are just shibby when you can use them, but that is pretty rare. as said elsewhere, golem is the meh of the marauders |
Nikodiemus
Jokulhlaup
24
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Posted - 2012.05.20 14:57:00 -
[55] - Quote
I used to use either a Drake or a Raven to do missions but once I switched to the Tengu I would never look back. The thing spews missiles and can speed tank like nobody's business, also helps getting between accel. gates faster. The tank is a beast too if you fit it properly. I would go Tengu over Golem or CNR any day.
Also invest in CN BCU, they are relatively cheap and give a huge boost to your damage. |
Lucas41
Piecewise Group
8
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Posted - 2012.05.20 16:56:00 -
[56] - Quote
As someone who has flown Navy Ravens, Navy Scorps and Tengus they all have their own drawbacks. Ultimately the decision is going to come down to style of play. For my 2 cents get a Navy Scorp now and a Tengu later on down the road. If isk is a problem start at the Raven and work your way up.
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Byron Squared
FCI Solvents
0
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Posted - 2012.05.22 03:23:00 -
[57] - Quote
Can't say I have spent much time in a Tengu but as someone with 3 BS to V etc a NM is MUCH faster than a Cruise CNR with Rigor rigs even on angels......1200 DPS with implants really dwarfs the others. And if you kill the small things while they approach you do full or near full damage on small targets. |
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
130
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Posted - 2012.05.22 23:34:00 -
[58] - Quote
Byron Squared wrote:Can't say I have spent much time in a Tengu but as someone with 3 BS to V etc a NM is MUCH faster than a Cruise CNR with Rigor rigs even on angels......1200 DPS with implants really dwarfs the others. And if you kill the small things while they approach you do full or near full damage on small targets.
I have to agree, a navy raven performance is not even close to a Nightmare or mach. |
I Accidentally YourShip
eHarmony Inc. Brushie Brushie Brushie
173
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Posted - 2012.05.24 22:36:00 -
[59] - Quote
1. Machariel 2. Nightmare/Vindicator (rat type may make them superior options to Machariel for full clears) 3. Kronos 4. Vargur
Special Tengu mention for blitzing mission triggers while tanking outrageous dps.
Nothing else stands out as exceptional, not the Raven, not the CNR, they are both mediocre in comparison to anything on this list, even when the above ships fight outside of their rat weak type. |
Caellach Marellus
Aideron Robotics
563
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Posted - 2012.05.25 19:11:00 -
[60] - Quote
I suspect people might give you a bit of stick for putting the Kronos above the Vargur, but it is an excellent ship, a complete beast since the Rail fix. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
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