Originally by: brinelan

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If you own a pos, anchoring V must be a self-imposed requirement due to it being a prereq to starbase defence skill needed to control your pos guns. posses dont do a terribly good job at shooting attackers until a player takes control.

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Originally by: Tandin

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Originally by: B1FF

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It's a waste of training time. I've yet to see a POS saved by guns. Train something that might make a difference in a POS fight like BS5.

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Apparently you haven't seen a deathstar POS with 5 or 6 gunners in it then. Properly coordinated such a defense will cause huge problems for a hostile fleet. Even if you lose the tower it's still a blast to shoot back.

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Originally by: brinelan

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it isnt for fun, and if its a hisec pos then a good deathstar setup with a pos gunner would make all but the most determined think twice about taking the pos out.

In lowsec/0.0 a good pos gunner or two at a deathstar may not save your pos, but it will make the enemy take a lot of losses.

Either way, it is worth it to protect your investment.

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Originally by: Lord Fitz

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Originally by: B1FF

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Originally by: brinelan

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If you own a pos, anchoring V must be a self-imposed requirement due to it being a prereq to starbase defence skill needed to control your pos guns. posses dont do a terribly good job at shooting attackers until a player takes control.

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It's a waste of training time. I've yet to see a POS saved by guns. Train something that might make a difference in a POS fight like BS5.

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I saved a medium POS against 10 caps using just 1 gunner and a chat window. :p It never even hit reinforced, they did lose fighters though, that definitely surprises someone that isn't expecting it.

Also, it's not always about saving the POS, it's about causing maximum damage, you can't cause any damage if the primary can just warp out at will. 1 BS is < 1 person using POS guns.

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Originally by: Lord Fitz

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You took out at deathstar using another POS ?

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Quote:

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Let me know where your virtually undefended pos will be so I can come kill it and scoop the mods.

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Originally by: Kazzac Elentria

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A properly setup death star with a good gunner will WTFBBQ anything less than a capital nearly 50% of the time. The other remaining 50% you will lose the POS but will inflict such massive damages that really it will be a net loss on their part.

Even with a capital coming to the party for a low sec POS, a good gunner and setup can inflict some massive hurt before losing the fight.

So yes, anything is possible and just about any POS even in high sec can come down. But there is that nagging issue of the amount of resources required to achieve that goal. And many times the level required is so ludicrously high as to warrant calling it pointless.

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Originally by: Pwett

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Losing the POS is one thing.

Yet if you can inflict as much damage to the enemy as your POS was worth, then it was well worth the few days to train anchoring V.

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Originally by: brinelan

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Originally by: B1FF

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Quote:

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Let me know where your virtually undefended pos will be so I can come kill it and scoop the mods.

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Reading Comprehension FTL. At no point did I say they were undefended.

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No, I would say I can comprehend just fine. Having attacked posses before, I can say that a pos without a gunner might as well be undefended.

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Originally by: Kazzac Elentria

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Originally by: B1FF

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That's a nice fictional example. All moons are identical in high sec so there is never a good reason to take that specific moon.

You too make my point admiting that the guns won't save the POS.

Lastly. What you and others have claimed is an economic victory is not. Sure you blow up a 1B in ships and loose a 600M moon mining POS. You're up 400M. Then next week when your attackers sell 200M worth of POS product what do the numbers look like? What about after a few months. Looks like the attackers have the net economic victory on you.

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Incorrect, there are plenty of reasons to take a specific moon in High Sec. More so now that the material fubar for the arrays will be fixed come M10.

Try upping that number and then come back. A moderate setup and gunner can inflict upwards to 3b of damages before falling. And while you might lose the POS, its pretty easy since mercs work cheap to hire an outfit to ensure that nothing gets anchored there anytime soon and losses continue to mount.

Unless the moon is an R64 or R32 with a decent chain setup in system/constellation, any attackers are going to be operating at a loss for at least a few months. So you have to ask yourself as an attacker... why bother?

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Originally by: Pwett

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Originally by: B1FF

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If you loose the whole revenue stream to an enemy how well you lost it is meaningless.

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That is not entirely true - the enemy's interpretation of the damage you can do to them can determine whether or not they will try to destroy that income stream at all.

If someone finds a POS and they see the holding corp has three members, they can look at it as
a) Well, they have three BS pilots who wouldn't be able to break one of our circle tanks.
b) They have three POS gunners which could one-volley each of our BS.

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Originally by: Kazzac Elentria

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Logistics. If the closet moon from your primary sourcing or operating area is more than X jumps away that increases the amount of time needed to manage that operation. Time is isk, so the more time you spend doing one thing the less isk you are making.

This can be particularly important in T2 invention chains, BPO copying, and capital production.

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Originally by: Kazzac Elentria

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Originally by: B1FF

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If the revenue stream is worth it they will come.

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Thats sorta the point we're trying to get across to you.

For every POS takedown there is a ROI that has to be considered. How much expense will it take vs when you can expect to recoup those operating costs. For many POS it's often not worth if it appears that whoever is supporting that operation has their ducks in order.

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Originally by: Kazzac Elentria

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Originally by: B1FF

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Theoretically correct but not the case in game.

A single moon can hold up to 55 comp/ammo assembly arrays. Within 3 jumps of Jita there are systems with multiple moons free.

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Sometimes even 3 jumps is to many. And not everyone has Jita as their source for materials

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Originally by: Fitz VonHeise

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Originally by: Petyr Baelich

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Don't get me wrong, a manned POS is a fearsome thing indeed; but Biff is right when he says it's not going to win you any battles you wouldn't have won with your fleet alone. It can make those battles more decisive victories, however.

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This is exactly correct.

The tougher you make your POS defenses the more your opposition has to bring to kill it. If they are determined they will bring a large enough fleet to kill your POS. No question about it.

And yes you will need a fleet to save your POS. Either before and certainly after it goes into reinforcement. However having guns will multiply your damage output for little effort.

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