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Pos Require Skills? (Reactors?)

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RedSkySun	Posted - 2009.03.03 09:36:00 - [1] I dont see anything so i just assumed it doesnt, but yea... just double checking.. Do Reactors require any skills to use? So nothing besides Anchoring 1 is required to setup a complex reaction POS network?
Braaage Ministry of Craft	Posted - 2009.03.03 09:38:00 - [2] Nope no extra skills needed once it's anchored only the normal POS corp roles. -- POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, Character Generator & more
Dedaf Gallente United Brothers Of Eve Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.03 11:46:00 - [3] As fare as i know only Anchoring skill are needed for POS managing, Level 1: gives you the right to anchor most structures Level 2: I believe are for reactors Level 5 + Starbase Defense Management: will be needed if you want to control POS guns ------- Ore & Ice Mining T1 & Capital & Rig Production POS Fueling and Reaction Minerals to Ore calculator
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2009.03.03 12:29:00 - [4] Originally by: Dedaf As fare as i know only Anchoring skill are needed for POS managing, Level 1: gives you the right to anchor most structures Level 2: I believe are for reactors Level 5 + Starbase Defense Management: will be needed if you want to control POS guns Level 3 for ECM batteries too.
brinelan Caldari Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.03.03 18:26:00 - [5] If you own a pos, anchoring V must be a self-imposed requirement due to it being a prereq to starbase defence skill needed to control your pos guns. posses dont do a terribly good job at shooting attackers until a player takes control. Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield.
B1FF	Posted - 2009.03.03 18:52:00 - [6] Originally by: brinelan If you own a pos, anchoring V must be a self-imposed requirement due to it being a prereq to starbase defence skill needed to control your pos guns. posses dont do a terribly good job at shooting attackers until a player takes control. It's a waste of training time. I've yet to see a POS saved by guns. Train something that might make a difference in a POS fight like BS5.
Tandin The Knights Templar Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.03.03 19:48:00 - [7] Originally by: B1FF It's a waste of training time. I've yet to see a POS saved by guns. Train something that might make a difference in a POS fight like BS5. Apparently you haven't seen a deathstar POS with 5 or 6 gunners in it then. Properly coordinated such a defense will cause huge problems for a hostile fleet. Even if you lose the tower it's still a blast to shoot back. "Boo hoo. Cry some more." CCP Whisper "There's no such thing as too much of a deathtrap. Y'all obviously need more deathtraps." CCP Prism X
B1FF	Posted - 2009.03.03 20:30:00 - [8] Originally by: Tandin Originally by: B1FF It's a waste of training time. I've yet to see a POS saved by guns. Train something that might make a difference in a POS fight like BS5. Apparently you haven't seen a deathstar POS with 5 or 6 gunners in it then. Properly coordinated such a defense will cause huge problems for a hostile fleet. Even if you lose the tower it's still a blast to shoot back. I've seen BS fleets take out deathstar POSes with 2-3 gunners. It was no significant issue. With dreads I imagine it would be comical. Even you admit that it won't save the POS it's simply fun. That's a far cry from the claim I was contesting, that it was mandatory. Better things to do with my time than train something to level V for fun.
brinelan Caldari Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.03.03 21:01:00 - [9] it isnt for fun, and if its a hisec pos then a good deathstar setup with a pos gunner would make all but the most determined think twice about taking the pos out. In lowsec/0.0 a good pos gunner or two at a deathstar may not save your pos, but it will make the enemy take a lot of losses. Either way, it is worth it to protect your investment. Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield.
B1FF	Posted - 2009.03.03 21:28:00 - [10] Edited by: B1FF on 03/03/2009 21:28:47 Originally by: brinelan it isnt for fun, and if its a hisec pos then a good deathstar setup with a pos gunner would make all but the most determined think twice about taking the pos out. In lowsec/0.0 a good pos gunner or two at a deathstar may not save your pos, but it will make the enemy take a lot of losses. Either way, it is worth it to protect your investment. I just don't understand. You say it won't help save your POS yet you still advocate it. Fleets save POSes. Guns never do. People need to learn this. Protect your investment with something that works.
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2009.03.03 22:34:00 - [11] Originally by: B1FF Originally by: brinelan If you own a pos, anchoring V must be a self-imposed requirement due to it being a prereq to starbase defence skill needed to control your pos guns. posses dont do a terribly good job at shooting attackers until a player takes control. It's a waste of training time. I've yet to see a POS saved by guns. Train something that might make a difference in a POS fight like BS5. I saved a medium POS against 10 caps using just 1 gunner and a chat window. :p It never even hit reinforced, they did lose fighters though, that definitely surprises someone that isn't expecting it. Also, it's not always about saving the POS, it's about causing maximum damage, you can't cause any damage if the primary can just warp out at will. 1 BS is < 1 person using POS guns.
Tasko Pal THE IRIS United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.04 07:56:00 - [12] Originally by: B1FF I just don't understand. You say it won't help save your POS yet you still advocate it. Fleets save POSes. Guns never do. People need to learn this. Protect your investment with something that works. There are two things to observe here. First, a dying POS can cause a lot of damage to an enemy even though you might lose it anyway. Second, if you can't quite bring enough fleet (or perhaps you're baiting the enemy), then a manned POS can turn the siege in the favor of the defenders. In any case, more than other types of battles, the attacker really has to have their act together to avoid taking much loses from a manned POS.
B1FF	Posted - 2009.03.04 11:42:00 - [13] Originally by: Lord Fitz Originally by: B1FF Originally by: brinelan If you own a pos, anchoring V must be a self-imposed requirement due to it being a prereq to starbase defence skill needed to control your pos guns. posses dont do a terribly good job at shooting attackers until a player takes control. It's a waste of training time. I've yet to see a POS saved by guns. Train something that might make a difference in a POS fight like BS5. I saved a medium POS against 10 caps using just 1 gunner and a chat window. :p It never even hit reinforced, they did lose fighters though, that definitely surprises someone that isn't expecting it. Also, it's not always about saving the POS, it's about causing maximum damage, you can't cause any damage if the primary can just warp out at will. 1 BS is < 1 person using POS guns. I took out a large deathstar with 4 gunners with 2 shuttles and a chat window. What's your point? Anyone can take out anything with a chat window. BS > POS gunner. The BS can remote rep and do damage which means it will always come out ahead when grouped. Also kids remember that attackers don't usually announce. So are you even going to be logged in when the fleet shows up and blows up your guns?
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2009.03.04 12:35:00 - [14] Originally by: B1FF BS > POS gunner. The BS can remote rep and do damage which means it will always come out ahead when grouped. A BS can also die, very quickly. The POS has the HP to keep doing the damage, it's also already fitted and there. Neuts and POS guns means you can take out several dreads using just 1-2 POS gunners, even under fire from several, capitals. You can't do that with even half a dozen BS. Without the POS gunners the spread damage isn't going to take out anything. 1 POS gunner is better than several BS's. You're also not risking anything extra. If you're outnumbered you lose no isk by manning the guns, and you can inflict substantial damage. Quote: So are you even going to be logged in when the fleet shows up and blows up your guns? Being online or not is often the difference between a loss and a save. Of course you can always be online when it comes out of reinforced, but it's not nearly as effective as being there before it goes into reinforced. Quote: I took out a large deathstar with 4 gunners with 2 shuttles and a chat window. What's your point? Anyone can take out anything with a chat window. You took out at deathstar using another POS ? That's a neat party trick. The point is, a manned POS is substantially more scary than an unmanned POS, a warp disruptor battery and a POS gunner, can keep any ship at the POS for substantially longer than a BS. A POS that cycles can't keep anything trapped there. The warp disruptor will cycle off and it can just warp off. I've successfully defended and taken down dozens of POS's I know how much difference a gunner makes. Without POS gunners I've seen the most heavily armed towers fail to kill anything, while manned ones with the same fitting and no fleet take down several attacking dreads, in which case even losing the tower becomes a financial win.
B1FF	Posted - 2009.03.04 14:04:00 - [15] Originally by: Lord Fitz You took out at deathstar using another POS ? Where did I say this? How did you turn 2 shuttles and a chat window into a POS?
B1FF	Posted - 2009.03.04 14:07:00 - [16] You POS with no fleet died. You make my point. Only fleets save POSes.
brinelan Caldari Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.03.04 14:10:00 - [17] Originally by: B1FF Originally by: Lord Fitz Originally by: B1FF Originally by: brinelan If you own a pos, anchoring V must be a self-imposed requirement due to it being a prereq to starbase defence skill needed to control your pos guns. posses dont do a terribly good job at shooting attackers until a player takes control. It's a waste of training time. I've yet to see a POS saved by guns. Train something that might make a difference in a POS fight like BS5. I saved a medium POS against 10 caps using just 1 gunner and a chat window. :p It never even hit reinforced, they did lose fighters though, that definitely surprises someone that isn't expecting it. Also, it's not always about saving the POS, it's about causing maximum damage, you can't cause any damage if the primary can just warp out at will. 1 BS is < 1 person using POS guns. I took out a large deathstar with 4 gunners with 2 shuttles and a chat window. What's your point? Anyone can take out anything with a chat window. BS > POS gunner. The BS can remote rep and do damage which means it will always come out ahead when grouped. Also kids remember that attackers don't usually announce. So are you even going to be logged in when the fleet shows up and blows up your guns? Let me know where your virtually undefended pos will be so I can come kill it and scoop the mods. Oh wait, since you basically came out and told us that you wont be defending it all that well, then soemone will probably get to it first.. darn time zones ftl =( Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.03.04 15:45:00 - [18] A properly setup death star with a good gunner will WTFBBQ anything less than a capital nearly 50% of the time. The other remaining 50% you will lose the POS but will inflict such massive damages that really it will be a net loss on their part. Even with a capital coming to the party for a low sec POS, a good gunner and setup can inflict some massive hurt before losing the fight. So yes, anything is possible and just about any POS even in high sec can come down. But there is that nagging issue of the amount of resources required to achieve that goal. And many times the level required is so ludicrously high as to warrant calling it pointless.
B1FF	Posted - 2009.03.04 15:55:00 - [19] Quote: Let me know where your virtually undefended pos will be so I can come kill it and scoop the mods. Reading Comprehension FTL. At no point did I say they were undefended.
Pwett QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2009.03.04 15:58:00 - [20] Losing the POS is one thing. Yet if you can inflict as much damage to the enemy as your POS was worth, then it was well worth the few days to train anchoring V. _______________ <Q> QUANT Hegemony A man creates; A parasite asks 'Where is my share?' Item Database
B1FF	Posted - 2009.03.04 16:09:00 - [21] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria A properly setup death star with a good gunner will WTFBBQ anything less than a capital nearly 50% of the time. The other remaining 50% you will lose the POS but will inflict such massive damages that really it will be a net loss on their part. Even with a capital coming to the party for a low sec POS, a good gunner and setup can inflict some massive hurt before losing the fight. So yes, anything is possible and just about any POS even in high sec can come down. But there is that nagging issue of the amount of resources required to achieve that goal. And many times the level required is so ludicrously high as to warrant calling it pointless. That's a nice fictional example. All moons are identical in high sec so there is never a good reason to take that specific moon. You too make my point admiting that the guns won't save the POS. Lastly. What you and others have claimed is an economic victory is not. Sure you blow up a 1B in ships and loose a 600M moon mining POS. You're up 400M. Then next week when your attackers sell 200M worth of POS product what do the numbers look like? What about after a few months. Looks like the attackers have the net economic victory on you.
brinelan Caldari Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.03.04 16:10:00 - [22] Originally by: B1FF Quote: Let me know where your virtually undefended pos will be so I can come kill it and scoop the mods. Reading Comprehension FTL. At no point did I say they were undefended. No, I would say I can comprehend just fine. Having attacked posses before, I can say that a pos without a gunner might as well be undefended. Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield.
B1FF	Posted - 2009.03.04 16:10:00 - [23] Originally by: Pwett Losing the POS is one thing. Yet if you can inflict as much damage to the enemy as your POS was worth, then it was well worth the few days to train anchoring V. If you loose the whole revenue stream to an enemy how well you lost it is meaningless.
B1FF	Posted - 2009.03.04 16:12:00 - [24] Originally by: brinelan Originally by: B1FF Quote: Let me know where your virtually undefended pos will be so I can come kill it and scoop the mods. Reading Comprehension FTL. At no point did I say they were undefended. No, I would say I can comprehend just fine. Having attacked posses before, I can say that a pos without a gunner might as well be undefended. You're still failing to even come close to discussing the point. Thanks. plonk
Pwett QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2009.03.04 16:15:00 - [25] Originally by: B1FF If you loose the whole revenue stream to an enemy how well you lost it is meaningless. That is not entirely true - the enemy's interpretation of the damage you can do to them can determine whether or not they will try to destroy that income stream at all. If someone finds a POS and they see the holding corp has three members, they can look at it as a) Well, they have three BS pilots who wouldn't be able to break one of our circle tanks. b) They have three POS gunners which could one-volley each of our BS. _______________ <Q> QUANT Hegemony A man creates; A parasite asks 'Where is my share?' Item Database
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.03.04 16:24:00 - [26] Originally by: B1FF That's a nice fictional example. All moons are identical in high sec so there is never a good reason to take that specific moon. You too make my point admiting that the guns won't save the POS. Lastly. What you and others have claimed is an economic victory is not. Sure you blow up a 1B in ships and loose a 600M moon mining POS. You're up 400M. Then next week when your attackers sell 200M worth of POS product what do the numbers look like? What about after a few months. Looks like the attackers have the net economic victory on you. Incorrect, there are plenty of reasons to take a specific moon in High Sec. More so now that the material fubar for the arrays will be fixed come M10. Try upping that number and then come back. A moderate setup and gunner can inflict upwards to 3b of damages before falling. And while you might lose the POS, its pretty easy since mercs work cheap to hire an outfit to ensure that nothing gets anchored there anytime soon and losses continue to mount. Unless the moon is an R64 or R32 with a decent chain setup in system/constellation, any attackers are going to be operating at a loss for at least a few months. So you have to ask yourself as an attacker... why bother?
B1FF	Posted - 2009.03.04 16:26:00 - [27] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: B1FF That's a nice fictional example. All moons are identical in high sec so there is never a good reason to take that specific moon. You too make my point admiting that the guns won't save the POS. Lastly. What you and others have claimed is an economic victory is not. Sure you blow up a 1B in ships and loose a 600M moon mining POS. You're up 400M. Then next week when your attackers sell 200M worth of POS product what do the numbers look like? What about after a few months. Looks like the attackers have the net economic victory on you. Incorrect, there are plenty of reasons to take a specific moon in High Sec. More so now that the material fubar for the arrays will be fixed come M10. Try upping that number and then come back. A moderate setup and gunner can inflict upwards to 3b of damages before falling. And while you might lose the POS, its pretty easy since mercs work cheap to hire an outfit to ensure that nothing gets anchored there anytime soon and losses continue to mount. Unless the moon is an R64 or R32 with a decent chain setup in system/constellation, any attackers are going to be operating at a loss for at least a few months. So you have to ask yourself as an attacker... why bother? Then what is the reason? If all moons are identical then it's a better call to simply take an empty one.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.03.04 16:37:00 - [28] Originally by: B1FF Then what is the reason? If all moons are identical then it's a better call to simply take an empty one. Logistics. If the closet moon from your primary sourcing or operating area is more than X jumps away that increases the amount of time needed to manage that operation. Time is isk, so the more time you spend doing one thing the less isk you are making. This can be particularly important in T2 invention chains, BPO copying, and capital production.
brinelan Caldari Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.03.04 16:43:00 - [29] Edited by: brinelan on 04/03/2009 16:43:09 Originally by: B1FF You're still failing to even come close to discussing the point. Thanks. plonk Well, lets see, you think that defending your pos is pointless, you ahve several people saying the opposite... I think that YOU are the one failing to see the point of everyone else in this thread. Again, let me know where your pos is so i can come and pop it since its obvious you wont be putting up a fight to defend it. Besides, im a bit behind on kills because of rl right now, and pos killmails looks great on the kb. Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield.
B1FF	Posted - 2009.03.04 16:51:00 - [30] Originally by: Pwett Originally by: B1FF If you loose the whole revenue stream to an enemy how well you lost it is meaningless. That is not entirely true - the enemy's interpretation of the damage you can do to them can determine whether or not they will try to destroy that income stream at all. If someone finds a POS and they see the holding corp has three members, they can look at it as a) Well, they have three BS pilots who wouldn't be able to break one of our circle tanks. b) They have three POS gunners which could one-volley each of our BS. Again this is flawed logic on a few levels. First: "holding" corp. Exactly. Who's the real corp? How many people in the holding corp is a meaningless fact. Who shows up to defend the POS is very important. Some of those 3 person corps are alts for large groups. Large groups who have constant wars so they need to put the indys in a serperate corp. Large groups who love POS defense because it means a fight. Second: You can't tell how many gunners they have. This makes your example fictional. Third: Self limiting example to BS. Does your same arguement hold up with a fleet of capitals? If the revenue stream is worth it they will come.

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