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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.03.04 17:09:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: B1FF
If the revenue stream is worth it they will come.
Thats sorta the point we're trying to get across to you.
For every POS takedown there is a ROI that has to be considered. How much expense will it take vs when you can expect to recoup those operating costs. For many POS it's often not worth if it appears that whoever is supporting that operation has their ducks in order. |
B1FF
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Posted - 2009.03.04 17:14:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Logistics. If the closet moon from your primary sourcing or operating area is more than X jumps away that increases the amount of time needed to manage that operation. Time is isk, so the more time you spend doing one thing the less isk you are making.
This can be particularly important in T2 invention chains, BPO copying, and capital production.
Theoretically correct but not the case in game.
A single moon can hold up to 55 comp/ammo assembly arrays. Within 3 jumps of Jita there are systems with multiple moons free.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.03.04 17:17:00 -
[33]
Originally by: B1FF
Theoretically correct but not the case in game.
A single moon can hold up to 55 comp/ammo assembly arrays. Within 3 jumps of Jita there are systems with multiple moons free.
Sometimes even 3 jumps is to many. And not everyone has Jita as their source for materials  |
B1FF
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Posted - 2009.03.04 17:24:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Originally by: B1FF
If the revenue stream is worth it they will come.
Thats sorta the point we're trying to get across to you.
For every POS takedown there is a ROI that has to be considered. How much expense will it take vs when you can expect to recoup those operating costs. For many POS it's often not worth if it appears that whoever is supporting that operation has their ducks in order.
The point I'm trying to make is that POS fall into 2 categories.
Revenue stream not worth seizing.
Revenue stream worth seizing.
If it's worth seizing they will bring enough ships to deal with your guns. They will blow up your guns while you are lifting a glass with your mates. You will not get a chance to fire your guns.
Then a fleet battle with happen which will determain if you keep your POS.
You cannot always base worth taking on one POS. Say someone is making a play on cadmium. They're snapping up all the low sec cad moons. If they can corner a chunk of the market a 3B loss on a single POS is no big thing.
***** the guns. Get a big fleet on retainer.
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B1FF
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Posted - 2009.03.04 17:25:00 -
[35]
Edited by: B1FF on 04/03/2009 17:26:28
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Originally by: B1FF
Theoretically correct but not the case in game.
A single moon can hold up to 55 comp/ammo assembly arrays. Within 3 jumps of Jita there are systems with multiple moons free.
Sometimes even 3 jumps is to many. And not everyone has Jita as their source for materials
Well then your example is even more theoretical as free moons are everywhere once you leave Jita.
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Petyr Baelich
Taggart Transdimensional
Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2009.03.04 17:29:00 -
[36]
Anchoring 5, Starbase Defense 5 are excellent skills for alts and their value is directly proportional to the security status of the system the POS is anchored in. In highsec you will have 24 hour notice of wars and can plan accordingly. In lowsec/null, the opposing force will not make their attack while the majority of you are online and will have scouted out your moon, player activity, possibly even attempted/succeeded in infiltrating your corp. Thus the value of an ewar/neut-heavy POS with at least 5 hardeners (to maximize exposure time of the hostile fleet) defended by a fleet is much greater than a lot of POS guns which will most likely not be manned at the time of the attack.
Don't get me wrong, a manned POS is a fearsome thing indeed; but Biff is right when he says it's not going to win you any battles you wouldn't have won with your fleet alone. It can make those battles more decisive victories, however.
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Fitz VonHeise
Foundation
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Posted - 2009.03.04 17:41:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Petyr Baelich
Don't get me wrong, a manned POS is a fearsome thing indeed; but Biff is right when he says it's not going to win you any battles you wouldn't have won with your fleet alone. It can make those battles more decisive victories, however.
This is exactly correct.
The tougher you make your POS defenses the more your opposition has to bring to kill it. If they are determined they will bring a large enough fleet to kill your POS. No question about it.
And yes you will need a fleet to save your POS. Either before and certainly after it goes into reinforcement. However having guns will multiply your damage output for little effort.
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B1FF
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Posted - 2009.03.04 17:47:00 -
[38]
Edited by: B1FF on 04/03/2009 17:48:38
Originally by: Fitz VonHeise
Originally by: Petyr Baelich
Don't get me wrong, a manned POS is a fearsome thing indeed; but Biff is right when he says it's not going to win you any battles you wouldn't have won with your fleet alone. It can make those battles more decisive victories, however.
This is exactly correct.
The tougher you make your POS defenses the more your opposition has to bring to kill it. If they are determined they will bring a large enough fleet to kill your POS. No question about it.
And yes you will need a fleet to save your POS. Either before and certainly after it goes into reinforcement. However having guns will multiply your damage output for little effort.
But only if you put them up after it goes into reinforced. If you can. By that I mean if they allow you to.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.03.07 08:17:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Lord Fitz on 07/03/2009 08:18:57
People are still entirely missing the point. While the straw man argument that is true is that a POS gunner/s will not ALWAYS save a POS. They will ALWAYS help and they HAVE saved and WILL save some POS's that would otherwise be lost.
Quote:
You POS with no fleet died. You make my point.
Only fleets save POSes.
What? My POS lived. With no fleet. Against opposing capitals. If your point was that sometimes POS gunners are enough then that point has been made.
Your point I thought was that they were never enough, which is quite simply not true. They are often not enough, but not always.
I've also saved ships being attacked outside POS's using the gunners. Without the gunners you can lose significantly more value in ships outside a POS than you can ever lose in a POS alone.
You're also missing the point completely that most POS's can be saved without ever firing a shot, by quite simply having potential attackers KNOW that you're able to fire those shots.
Sure, go save all your POS's once they hit reinforced, in the end saving a POS that spends half the time in reinforced isn't as good as having one up for half the time that spends it all producing income before dying.
Originally by: B1FF
But only if you put them up after it goes into reinforced. If you can. By that I mean if they allow you to.
If someone brings a big enough fleet to knock out all your guns in the initial attack without opposition AND manages to sit them there for the entire reinforced period without you being able to muster enough to even anchor more guns, it doesn't really matter what you do, since obviously you can't bring a big enough fleet or gunners to do anything anyway. Of course if you had some gunners there when the attack started, sometimes it's enough to scare people off, even if they're in caps.
I never said it always was, but I know it sometimes is, because I've done it, successfully.
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Splash Whale
Electric Monkey Overlords
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Posted - 2009.03.07 13:09:00 -
[40]
When using some proper tactics and POS gunning you can even fend off a 20 man gang from a small tower..
Large POS guns do a tremendous ammount of volley damage, and if you co-ordinate with tacklers properly you can kill off en entire gang trying to assault your tower.
To people saying anchoring 5 is a waste, you probably never trained it because you are under the assumption it sucks. But if you're able to control about 2-3k dps with just a month worth of skill training you will start wondering why its only a month worth of training.
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When in doubt, Ctrl-Q. |
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