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Amarr Wife
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Posted - 2009.03.05 19:07:00 -
[1]
reading this thread and started thinking about some of the off topic posts in that thread.
Firstly the problem of people being able to sit in npc corps farming lvl 4's in their CNR's this game is ment to be based around risk v reward their is no risk involved in running lvl 4's this way (unless your an idiot in which case you deserve to die)
Most ideas around this seem to involve dispanding the npc corps or kicking people out as soon as they reach a cirten age, now this gives the problem that the corp then has fewer older players who can give advice to the newbs.
To solve this i sejest conscription, by that i mean after being in the corp for x months (i would say somewhere beteewn 3 - 6) you are forced to join the milita along with any player older that x months who rejoins the corp. This means that outside of their own space they are open to attack by enemy milita, also opens up the possibility of raids into enemy terortry being more rewarding, im sure npc corps wernt ment for war dodging or hiding in to do lvl 4's safely and this adds at least some risk to both.
Another point which came up in that thread was making 0.0 more accesable, as it is now most 0.0 space is controled by alliances with NBSI policys who blob up at the choke points and kill anything that come through, making 0.0 space inaccesable to anyone who isnt in one of those alliances.
What i sejest for this is to add more jumpgates into and arouund npc 0.0 space, maybe more stations and more agents to encorage people to move ot there too. This would open the space up by removing the crowding of cirten 0.0 systems, enable people to avoid gate camps by using some sence and allow more smaller groups of people to live out there together.
Now to allow the big alliance to hold their space which i think is fair enough i sejest moving the main choke points further back into 0.0 so alliance terotry can be held as it is now but more people can live in 0.0 space.
Hopeflly a combination of these may encorage more people to leave the safty of the npc corps and 'safe' space.
Now i know these ideas arn't perfect and would like to hear your ideas on the subgects.
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Alora Venoda
GalTech
Whiskey Creek Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.05 19:30:00 -
[2]
what would make 0.0 more accessible is a better in-game way to allow smaller corps/alliances to get "blue" status. currently the logistics of doing so are mostly out-of-game and often the standings get out of sync or forgotten about for months... etc. and there is also a hard limit on how many entities an alliance can assign standings towards...
it would be MUCH easier if there were some in-game "player faction" feature that established coalitions of alliances, so then all the standings would be automatic. also there could be built-in terms of membership, membership contracts, and in-game "government" features like maybe some kind of parliament. then all this kind of stuff that happens out-of-game can be enforced in-game, eliminating many of the trust issues and standings management overhead.
however, at the same time, the super-alliances in control of these coalitions tend to be very elitist and really dislike the idea of 0.0 space becoming like their own "little empire" with tons of casual corps farming away. most 0.0 dwellers agree that in terms of PvE, most of 0.0 can only support 3 or 4 ratting players per system. meanwhile empire systems with good agents are often well over 100 pilots in local 23/7.
so do we really need 0.0 to more accessible in its current state?
~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~
Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless.
Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application. |
Faife
Federation of Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2009.03.05 19:32:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Faife on 05/03/2009 19:35:40
you know, the reward of mission running is pretty tiny. 20/30m an hour maybe, and boring as hell. let them have the damn grindy isk, some people like that stuff.
you do realize that a scanned down 0.0 plex drops 2 billion or so and can be ran in like 2 hours assuming you're taking your time. billion/hour vs 20m an hour? negligible reward, negligible risk, seems ok to me.
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Ron Bacardi
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.03.05 19:42:00 -
[4]
Simple solution. Once an account exists for 6 months, players are booted from noob-NPC corp to new type of NPC corp with a high tax rate and can be war dec'ed. At this point a pop-up appears on your screen every day telling you to "Make friends and join a player corp loser" with a link to the recruitment forum. No doubt these corps will be dec'ed 23/7 so it will be in your best interest to make friends soon.
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Cors
It's A Trap
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Posted - 2009.03.05 19:44:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Faife
Edited by: Faife on 05/03/2009 19:35:40
you know, the reward of mission running is pretty tiny. 20/30m an hour maybe, and boring as hell. let them have the damn grindy isk, some people like that stuff.
you do realize that a scanned down 0.0 plex drops 2 billion or so and can be ran in like 2 hours assuming you're taking your time. billion/hour vs 20m an hour? negligible reward, negligible risk, seems ok to me.
If you're only makeing 20 mil an hour in lvl 4 missions, then you're doing them wrong.
If you everything you get from missions(Bounties, rewards, loot, salvage, LP rewards) you should average around 50-80 mil an hour.
This DOES entail a good investment in ships/production.
You just have to learn to maximize your work.
I have 2 alts I use for missions. One in a golem, one in a Domi.
I use them together. The golem as 3 Tractors in the highs, the domi 3 salvagers in the highs.
They kill things FAST. While killing I tractor everything in, loot/salvage it.
The salvage is used to build rigs, which I sell. The loot is melted down, turned into Capital components, and ships built, then sold for profit.
LP is turned in for items with maximum profit at current market levels.
Yes, you may only make 20 mil in bounties per hour, but if you use all the carcass that is missions, and not just the meat, you'll make a LOT more.
It's mind numbingly boreing, but it supports 5 accounts for me and my pvp habit on my pvp chars :)
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.03.05 20:32:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ron Bacardi
Simple solution. Once an account exists for 6 months, players are booted from noob-NPC corp to new type of NPC corp with a high tax rate and can be war dec'ed. At this point a pop-up appears on your screen every day telling you to "Make friends and join a player corp loser" with a link to the recruitment forum. No doubt these corps will be dec'ed 23/7 so it will be in your best interest to make friends soon.
If you want to force paying players to do something they don't want, it's only fair to force player corps to accept anyone who wants to join them as well. That should solve the problem too… 
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Jhagiti Tyran
Mortis Angelus
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Posted - 2009.03.05 20:32:00 -
[7]
The new region gates have already made the 0.0 entry points exceedingly difficult to camp and you need a large gang and several large anchored bubbles and most the time people cannot be bothered and will set sucker bubble traps further up the pipes which are fairly easy to avoid so access to the entry points isn't as much of a problem as it used to be.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.03.05 20:35:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Cors
If you everything you get from missions(Bounties, rewards, loot, salvage, LP rewards) you should average around 50-80 mil an hour.
[…]
I have 2 alts I use for missions. One in a golem, one in a Domi.
…in other words, you're making 25-40mil/hr using the synergy of multiple top-of-the-line tools for the job. Compared to that, 20-30 for solo work isn't particularly bad.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Ron Bacardi
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.03.05 21:27:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Ron Bacardi
Simple solution. Once an account exists for 6 months, players are booted from noob-NPC corp to new type of NPC corp with a high tax rate and can be war dec'ed. At this point a pop-up appears on your screen every day telling you to "Make friends and join a player corp loser" with a link to the recruitment forum. No doubt these corps will be dec'ed 23/7 so it will be in your best interest to make friends soon.
If you want to force paying players to do something they don't want, it's only fair to force player corps to accept anyone who wants to join them as well. That should solve the problem tooà
You don't need to force player corps to take anyone in, there are already players corps who WANT to take anyone in. There are plenty of corps of varying types always looking for people.
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Brugar
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Posted - 2009.03.05 21:48:00 -
[10]
Unfortunatly, using the word "Force" with other peoples $15 is not good form.
NPC corps, moving aged characters to another NPC corp that is war deccable, that sounds awesome.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.03.05 21:57:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ron Bacardi
You don't need to force player corps to take anyone in,
Yes you do… Quote:
there are already players corps who WANT to take anyone in. There are plenty of corps of varying types always looking for people.
…because there's nothing to say that the players will want to join those particular corps. If one group is forced to do something they don't want to, the rest should be forced as well.
Originally by: Brugar
Unfortunatly, using the word "Force" with other peoples $15 is not good form.
NPC corps, moving aged characters to another NPC corp that is war deccable, that sounds awesome.
So which one is it? Is it awesome to force people, or bad form?
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Clinically
Gallente
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.05 22:19:00 -
[12]
The easy answer to this is to remove Concord. No security issues = less carebears 
________________
ANZAC Recruitment - NOW OPEN! |
Malzon Nixx
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Posted - 2009.03.05 22:34:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Clinically
The easy answer to this is to remove Concord. No security issues = less carebears
And the game is dead in 6 months. Without carebears making goods for you PVP's your supply lines would dry up very fast.
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Spurty
Caldari
Amok.
Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.03.05 22:36:00 -
[14]
3 - 6 weeks of no carebears and no production and CCP will be back to seeding the market with T1 junk.
boom .. drama bomb was a direct hit, expect GoonSwarm posts on CAOD any second! |
Jhagiti Tyran
Mortis Angelus
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Posted - 2009.03.05 23:07:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Malzon Nixx
Originally by: Clinically
The easy answer to this is to remove Concord. No security issues = less carebears
And the game is dead in 6 months. Without carebears making goods for you PVP's your supply lines would dry up very fast.
This might be shocking but many people do both industry, invention and pew pew 
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.05 23:12:00 -
[16]
I'm starting to realize that the majority of carebears are too weak-willed and stupid to live in 0.0.
The only way to effectively herd them in 0.0 is to make 0.0 as safe as empire. The majority of the players simply do not deserve to live. They definitely don't deserve to make tons of money farming level 4s in their ravens.
ALL level 4 missions should be removed from high sec.
We need to provide some encouragement for the weak and stupid to become stronger and smarter.
We don't want to change the game to be more accessible for the weak and stupid. - otherwise we end up with something like American public school system.
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Amarr Wife
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Posted - 2009.03.05 23:15:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Brugar
NPC corps, moving aged characters to another NPC corp that is war deccable, that sounds awesome.
We all know this corp wold be perma war dec'ed, why i thought the milita would be a good idea means they can be killed but wont be permantly war deced by pirates wanting easy kills (not that im saying there is anything wrong with pirates)
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Caldari Citizen4714
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Posted - 2009.03.05 23:17:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Amarr Wife
reading this thread and started thinking about some of the off topic posts in that thread.
Firstly the problem of people being able to sit in npc corps farming lvl 4's in their CNR's this game is ment to be based around risk v reward their is no risk involved in running lvl 4's this way (unless your an idiot in which case you deserve to die)
Most ideas around this seem to involve dispanding the npc corps or kicking people out as soon as they reach a cirten age, now this gives the problem that the corp then has fewer older players who can give advice to the newbs.
To solve this i sejest
That's as far as I could make it.
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Drexlin Deadseer
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Posted - 2009.03.05 23:26:00 -
[19]
How about this, let people play the game in the way they wish to play it and quit being arrogant *****s thinking the game is solely for your own enjoyment. No one should be forced to play in a way that you consider appropriate.
Go do your thing and let everyone else do their thing. Is that so goddamn difficult?
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.05 23:38:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Drexlin Deadseer
How about this, let people play the game in the way they wish to play it and quit being arrogant *****s thinking the game is solely for your own enjoyment. No one should be forced to play in a way that you consider appropriate.
Go do your thing and let everyone else do their thing. Is that so goddamn difficult?
It's cause CCP keeps ****ing with the game, changing it, favoring the carebears, favoring those too stupid to counter difficult pvp tactics by removing the tactics from game, nerfing the strong, boosting welfare for the weak.
If CCP didn't do all those things we wouldn't have this discussion in the first place
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Spurty
Caldari
Amok.
Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.03.05 23:41:00 -
[21]
There are a lot of unrealistic ideas getting traction:
Originally by: Ephemeron
ALL level 4 missions should be removed from high sec.
This is not an attack at you Ephemeron, you are just regurgitating the same old badly thought through point over and over.
What will that do? Seriously? Have you thought it all the way through? Do you have some statistical data to back up the claim?
Just from the perspective of mine and friends in real life that play I can tell you it would not entice them away empire.
Its not that they are afraid, they are just clever enough to know they can't survive out there solo (which is sadly the best fit for them as they can't play more than 2 hours a week) as no corp out in 0.0 should be content to let members sit idle so long.
low and null sec missions already give out 10k to 16k loyalty points in 0.0. *IF* missions were the reason people played EVE, they would ALL be out there doing them.
They clearly aren't chasing missions / loyalty points, therefore .. its not the inhibitor. People quite rightly see low and null sec as the pvp battle grounds. They just don't want to play in that part of the sandbox 'today'.
Its most likely that people stay in empire for the convenience of being able to undock whenever they have 30mins spare to play a game on an evening after a hard day in the office, without undocking into 20 capital ships manned by students that can play 23 hours a day smart bombing.
Survival in 0.0 requires many social skills and crafting friendships. These require daily maintenance and for the person with little time free, impossible to foster.
This is why empire is where these people live.
Its not something 100% of the population can 'adapt' to.
Yes, this is a harsh reality. CCP might be brave doing things like nerfing nano, but they are no stupid.
Faction warfare gave them all a nice 'taste' of how ******ed pvp can be. You can thank those that partook in the destruction of their first hand experiences in their losses to non-faction gangs camping low sec gates for enforcing the image that there is any fun out there for their style of play.
Forcing your style on others is dictatorship.
Countries run by dictators usually end up with exodus to other places where they are 'free' to live unmolested. EVE would be no different, there are plenty of other games out there to collect these people.
What is needed to draw people to 0.0 is content that can not be jump freighter to jita for sale.
I've had a beer and I'm free thinking here. Hows about making Faction Mods illegal in High sec? That would draw people are that are hooked on the stuff. ;0
boom .. drama bomb was a direct hit, expect GoonSwarm posts on CAOD any second! |
Quantar Raalsken
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.06 00:47:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Amarr Wife
reading this thread and started thinking about some of the off topic posts in that thread.
Firstly the problem of people being able to sit in npc corps farming lvl 4's in their CNR's this game is ment to be based around risk v reward their is no risk involved in running lvl 4's this way (unless your an idiot in which case you deserve to die)
Most ideas around this seem to involve dispanding the npc corps or kicking people out as soon as they reach a cirten age, now this gives the problem that the corp then has fewer older players who can give advice to the newbs.
To solve this i sejest conscription, by that i mean after being in the corp for x months (i would say somewhere beteewn 3 - 6) you are forced to join the milita along with any player older that x months who rejoins the corp. This means that outside of their own space they are open to attack by enemy milita, also opens up the possibility of raids into enemy terortry being more rewarding, im sure npc corps wernt ment for war dodging or hiding in to do lvl 4's safely and this adds at least some risk to both.
Another point which came up in that thread was making 0.0 more accesable, as it is now most 0.0 space is controled by alliances with NBSI policys who blob up at the choke points and kill anything that come through, making 0.0 space inaccesable to anyone who isnt in one of those alliances.
What i sejest for this is to add more jumpgates into and arouund npc 0.0 space, maybe more stations and more agents to encorage people to move ot there too. This would open the space up by removing the crowding of cirten 0.0 systems, enable people to avoid gate camps by using some sence and allow more smaller groups of people to live out there together.
Now to allow the big alliance to hold their space which i think is fair enough i sejest moving the main choke points further back into 0.0 so alliance terotry can be held as it is now but more people can live in 0.0 space.
Hopeflly a combination of these may encorage more people to leave the safty of the npc corps and 'safe' space.
Now i know these ideas arn't perfect and would like to hear your ideas on the subgects.
i "sejest" u learn to spell better ( lol srry but it had to be said XD)
 suggest
certain
as for the actual post....well im all for better 0.0 access cause right now im the wimpy little kid that keeps dipping his toe in the water saying its too cold instead of just jumping in and taking the first cold 30 seconds
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Faife
Federation of Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2009.03.06 01:28:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ephemeron
It's cause CCP keeps ****ing with the game, changing it, favoring the carebears, favoring those too stupid to counter difficult pvp tactics by removing the tactics from game, nerfing the strong, boosting welfare for the weak.
If CCP didn't do all those things we wouldn't have this discussion in the first place
nice, a guy who has 80% of eve on his blue list is whining about carebears.
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Tobin Arkon
Minmatar
Tribal Core
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Posted - 2009.03.06 07:13:00 -
[24]
The reason most carebares don't goto nullsec is because they don't feel welcome there. Most nullsec alliances are NBSI and shoot anything that moves without provocation, they rule their territory like tyrants.
When I was 21 I got lucky and found a job that paid 18 USD / hour. I worked there for 6months and quit because everyone was a bunch of *******s. I'm 30 now and only make 15 an hour...but I'm happier because I like the folks I work with. There are only 2 things that need to be done to get folks into Nullsec and neither of them is related to Eve game mechanics.
1) Carebares need to take the chance and risk actually TALKING to the Nullsec alliances, they may actually find some people they like and can work with.
2) The Nullsec alliances need to tone down the elitist / tyrant attitudes and actually try welcoming new folks into playing instead of shooting them on site
tl;dr - people only go where they feel welcome, carebares arn't welcome in nullsec, so they don't go there.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.06 07:34:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Alora Venoda
what would make 0.0 more accessible is a better in-game way to allow smaller corps/alliances to get "blue" status. currently the logistics of doing so are mostly out-of-game and often the standings get out of sync or forgotten about for months... etc. and there is also a hard limit on how many entities an alliance can assign standings towards...
it would be MUCH easier if there were some in-game "player faction" feature that established coalitions of alliances, so then all the standings would be automatic. also there could be built-in terms of membership, membership contracts, and in-game "government" features like maybe some kind of parliament. then all this kind of stuff that happens out-of-game can be enforced in-game, eliminating many of the trust issues and standings management overhead.
however, at the same time, the super-alliances in control of these coalitions tend to be very elitist and really dislike the idea of 0.0 space becoming like their own "little empire" with tons of casual corps farming away. most 0.0 dwellers agree that in terms of PvE, most of 0.0 can only support 3 or 4 ratting players per system. meanwhile empire systems with good agents are often well over 100 pilots in local 23/7.
so do we really need 0.0 to more accessible in its current state?
To clarify: most of 0.0 can only support 1 player per 2 or 3 systems.
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Trathen
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.06 07:41:00 -
[26]
0.0 needs to be more casual friendly if it wants more people. Not everyone wants to own 2 accounts and funnel crap back and forth, nor do most of the quiet casuals base their self esteem off of their competency in esoteric internet spaceship warfare.
It will probably stay that way too. You'll never see casual 0.0 alliances because they'll get pushed out while they are taking of care of business, then shrug and meander around empire so they don't have to go through the trouble of setting up shop again.
Maybe they can join bigger 0.0 alliances? Naw, in the few spare moments they can log on, everyone is off ratting, so they rat, which most can agree is even more boring than mission grinding. They'll always miss scheduled ops by sheer chance. Then, eventually the leaders meet: "Who is this guy? All he does is rat an hour a day, get rid of him."
and so on...
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Venomire
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.06 07:41:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Faife
nice, a guy who has 80% of eve on his blue list is whining about carebears.
An absurd statement considering CCP figures 90% of the characters in EVE are based in highsec.
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Jmanis Catharg
Caldari
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2009.03.06 07:41:00 -
[28]
Quote:
To clarify: most of 0.0 can only support 1 player per 2 or 3 systems.
Really? What sort of player? Obviously one without much in their life besides playing EVE, after you take into account:
- Ratting the belts.
- Mining the belts (hey, if there's no rats and you have an alt spare)
- Setting up a POS on *every* moon in those 3 systems, each of which doing at least *something* productive besides being a sov claimer.
---
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.06 08:06:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg
Quote:
To clarify: most of 0.0 can only support 1 player per 2 or 3 systems.
Really? What sort of player? Obviously one without much in their life besides playing EVE, after you take into account:
- Ratting the belts.
- Mining the belts (hey, if there's no rats and you have an alt spare)
- Setting up a POS on *every* moon in those 3 systems, each of which doing at least *something* productive besides being a sov claimer.
Have you ever actually tried this in poor trusec?
Ratting? LOL. 1-2 double BS spawns per system. most belts have BC spawns. 1 BC and 2 frigates is not uncommon.
Mining? Oh yeah, Hebergedite baby! Jaspet!
POS: most moons won't even cover the cost of POS fuel
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El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.03.06 08:12:00 -
[30]
It would be hard to make 0.0 more accessible now, it was a basic lack of foresight and planning. It would be hard to correct those issues today and the cure might be worse than the problems it has now, as it would probably alienate most of the people who currently play in 0.0.
Here are some ideas I've seen/posted in the past that could fix 0.0. I think it would take all of them to balance it out.
1. Moon Mining: Asteroid belts get mined out and so should moons. A particular spawn should last 3-6 months, plenty of time to recover costs and make a profit. Then that vein should peter out and the moon mineral should respawn someplace else in the galaxy (note yes it should be possible to find another vein on the same moon).
In addition you need more moon minerals. Each of the moon minerals should appear in every 0.0 constellation. When one spawn peters out another appears in the same constellation.
2. Belts: You need more. In some cases you'd need to as much as double the number of belts in each constellation (alternately you could just double the size of existing belts)
3. Exploration: You need more of them as well, probably double current chances.
4. POS: It is ridiculous that a space age society has not heard of solar power. The nearly limitless power of a systems suns should be harnessed. In essence eliminate normal fuel requirements of POSs. However when one enters reinforced mode it can no longer use its solar cells and requires fueling as currently (That is to combine the normal fuel + reinforced fuel that is used today to make it just reinforced fuel in future :) )
5. Skill system. There should be a set of skills required to claim sovereignty. This would have to be held by the CEO of the executor corp. It would be a charisma based skill, with secondary probably in willpower or perception.
I'd break it into a few skills:
Domain Sovereignty: Basically just allows 1 system per level, each system must be adjacent to another system controlled if one exist. (Basically first one you put anywheres, others have to connect to it in some way).
Constellation Sovereignty: You can claim systems as above in 1 constellation per level however each constellation must be adjacent to the previous one.
I would not allow multiregions to be held by the same entities.
As I said this would anger way to many folks, it would have been good to have had in place early on but now I don't think it can reasonably be done without alienating to many people.
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