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Spurty
Caldari Amok. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.03.07 12:53:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Cadela Fria
Please explain to me how you can act as chair/unbiased party when you're the one who proposed the idea of non-consensual combat in the first place?
Hmmm I guess you have never participated in a debate before.
An idea with two distinct sides is proposed by a party that wishes to hear the pros and cons.
One person will listen to the points put forward, aid in the discussion of the points merits good or bad. Most importantly, that person tries to keep the discussion moving when we get stuck on an idea.
So, I did this because:
- I proposed as I've not seen it proposed exactly like this - I don't have any skin in the game (i live in 0.0, I have manufacturing skills, can roll my own ships and gear), - I want pvp'ers to appreciate their worth in the real world (more or less people need empire ?). - I need to practice listening and reasoning skills - Can't hurt to talk, possibly healthy - Remove The fear of the unknown - profit
So, there it is, wardecs in empire would require concord existing, so corps with issues can still dec eachother, however to fight, would have to take it to lowsec. Obviously, gate guns and stations out there will not open up :)
boom .. drama bomb was a direct hit, expect GoonSwarm posts on CAOD any second! |
Spurty
Caldari Amok. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.03.07 12:58:00 -
[32]
This change allows -5s into empire with nothing but the faction police to worry about.
Players can't attack them.
boom .. drama bomb was a direct hit, expect GoonSwarm posts on CAOD any second! |
Spurty
Caldari Amok. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.03.07 13:03:00 -
[33]
This would be the end of suicide ganking in empire.
affect on the economy?
affect on players income?
Would it break eve?
When was the last time someone tried to suicide gank in empire?
What were the results?
How frequently is it successful?
What would these people be forced to do differently for their isk?
What could be done to replace that method of income?
boom .. drama bomb was a direct hit, expect GoonSwarm posts on CAOD any second! |
Cors
It's A Trap
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Posted - 2009.03.07 13:36:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Cors on 07/03/2009 13:39:01 If you log in to EVE, you give you consent to PVP. PVP Market. PVP mining. PVP missions. PVP POS's. PVP Wormholes. PVP plex's. PVP factions. PVP Corps. PVP Alliance's.
Everything in this game is PVP.
Highsec is Safe(er). It's not SAFE.
If someone logs in, they are consenting to compete against someone. That's PVP.
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.07 14:03:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Cors
Highsec is Safe(er). It's not SAFE.
Currently the risk is so low that you might as well call it safe.
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Gonada
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.07 14:04:00 -
[36]
I was going to do a long rant, but I can best sum it up as:
dont want non-consentual PVP? GTFO of EVE.
Please, jump into traffic
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Dotard
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.03.07 14:09:00 -
[37]
I thought that Interface button in station labeled "Undock" was the consent to PvP enabler.
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Spurty
Caldari Amok. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.03.07 14:15:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Gonada I was going to do a long rant, but I can best sum it up as:
dont want non-consentual PVP? GTFO of EVE.
this is close to my own conclusion which, seeing as i just about ran out of time, will deliver.
Conclusions:
- pvpers need carebears - carebears need pvpers - the current status quo is a factor of auto correction through free will. - a few pvpers are very upset carebears make isk and this idea is rubbish thinking at best - some carebears fear 0.0 and low sec, but these are the laces the big isk is made - risk vs reward is often thrown around as if it was a truth however, for most in 0.0, there is far less risk of even seeing a bad guy let alone losing a ship to one - ovrerall, ccp correctly ignore all of these threads, there is nothing broken here so move on please.
in short, stop whining about silly stuff guys, there are more important things to worry about.
boom .. drama bomb was a direct hit, expect GoonSwarm posts on CAOD any second! |
Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.07 14:25:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Esmenet on 07/03/2009 14:25:59
Originally by: Spurty
- pvpers need carebears - carebears need pvpers
Wrong. Carebears need pvp'ers because this game would have no purpose without it.
Pvp'ers dont need carebears as ship production can easily be handeled as a sideprofession or with alts.
Pure carebears are just leaching off pvp'ers.
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5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.03.07 14:35:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Spurty
Conclusions:
- pvpers need carebears - True - carebears need pvpers - True - the current status quo is a factor of auto correction through free will. - True - a few pvpers are very upset carebears make isk and this idea is rubbish thinking at best - This one is circumstantial. There are two sides to this coin, one is cheap and and available goods, the other is highly inflated prices for things that aren't easily reproducable that all rich carebears want, such as shiny faction gear. - some carebears fear 0.0 and low sec, but these are the laces the big isk is made - Semi true, It depends what part of 0.0 and what you do. NPC zones, Moon mining and plexes are what really swings it in 0.0's favour. - risk vs reward is often thrown around as if it was a truth however, for most in 0.0, there is far less risk of even seeing a bad guy let alone losing a ship to one - Mostly true but again depends where you live, on average in the big alliances as long as you pay attention to intel warnings you could devote yourself to solid days of ratting and shouldn't lose more than a single ship a week, which isn't going to put any real dent in your profits, unlike solo/small gangs who just venture into nullsec for profit that stand to die horribly at some point. - ovrerall, ccp correctly ignore all of these threads, there is nothing broken here so move on please. -
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Johli
Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.03.07 15:06:00 -
[41]
posting in a troll thread
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Rpeg
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.07 16:20:00 -
[42]
I'm a carebear.
Don't create further restrictions on PvP and how to initiate it.
The end. -- autechre - ep7 - track 1: rpeg estevancarlos.com |
Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.07 18:18:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: The Tzar This is EVE, you consent to pvp by logging on.
I agree that people enjoying the instalock, instajam, instaneut, instapop services of concord should have to pay a hefty tax.
If people want consentual pvp, go play a different game!
There are plenty of other $hitty hold your hand mmo's why do people so want to turn this game into yet another generic warcraft copy. JUST GO PLAY WARCRAFT FFS!
This is EVE, not counterstrike in space.
Those people who want to kill anything they see, anywhere, anytime, should go play those games and not turn this game into another generic headshot simulator.
Get the point?
You're missing the point, though.
From the moment you undock or touch a market screen, you're PvPing in some way. You're vulnerable to it. Other players CAN kill anything, anywhere, anytime. YOU can kill anything, anywhere, anytime.
Because there are some in-character rules which prevent this in .5+ space, does not change the fact that it's STILL a PvP game. If it wasn't, CCP would prevent you from attacking. That's what other games do. CCP doesn't, however. I can still kill you in hisec, IF I want to.
CCP introduced in-character laws to DISCOURAGE this behavior, but the do not prevent it. I can still rob from you, shoot you, destroy you, pod you, even scam you. It's against the laws of CONCORD, and liable to get me killed.
But it's still PvP, anywhere, anytime. It's entirely consensual, because EVERY new player is warned that this is the way EvE is. The moment you undock, you are open to attack. Whether you get attacked or not, because it's against an NPC law in-game, doesn't mean you're still not completely vulnerable to PvP at all times.
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E Vile
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Posted - 2009.03.07 18:50:00 -
[44]
Want a safe game, go play WoW. If EVE removed it's PVP element I would leave (as I'm sure many others would). I like EVE for it's hardcore format.
There are ways to protect yourself. Just take precautions.
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Daelorn
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.03.07 18:52:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Daelorn on 07/03/2009 18:53:01
Originally by: Spurty this is to keep the neutrality in check (and a troll of those upset about the existence of empire/people that don't want to undock into a blob and die over and over and over) oh and cause I can't play at the moment, I'm on baby duty!
To consent to pvp, you just enter 0.4 or lower systems.
What would be the effect on the markets?
What would be the effect on the subscriptions?
What would be the effect on alliance numbers?
Is any of this going to affect CCPs profit?
How different is this from what we have now?
No more Concord needed, still room to grief.
hahaha .. I don't seriously want this as I've not really thought about it much, but its not been discussed yet, so lets see if its a good/bad idea.
DISCUSS!!
no. gtfo.
Also as someone else said: If you log in to EVE, you give you consent to PVP. If you don't like that then there are plenty of other MMOs to play.
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Agent Unknown
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.07 19:38:00 -
[46]
While I don't mind PvP, corps wardeccing your industry-based corp just to grief you is plain stupid. We've lost billions so far ISK-wise because of it, as well as some newbie miners whom our corp is designed to prepare for low-sec mining, etc.
It's ******ed that 5 year old characters can pick on people that are just starting to pad their killboards. ----------------------------------- "What can go wrong, will go wrong." |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.07 19:42:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Agent Unknown While I don't mind PvP, corps wardeccing your industry-based corp just to grief you is plain stupid. We've lost billions so far ISK-wise because of it, as well as some newbie miners whom our corp is designed to prepare for low-sec mining, etc.
It's ******ed that 5 year old characters can pick on people that are just starting to pad their killboards.
You think that because you're defenceless and rich, it's "******ed" to wardec you?
Sounds eminently sensible to me.
You're like a guy who got mugged, angrily asking his robbers "Oh yeah, why don't you go pick on a crack dealer or a contract killer, you ******s!"
Duh! You've been "mugged" because you're rich and defenceless.
You think they're bad because they pick on weak targets. I think you're bad because you've decided to be weak.
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.07 19:44:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Agent Unknown While I don't mind PvP, corps wardeccing your industry-based corp just to grief you is plain stupid. We've lost billions so far ISK-wise because of it, as well as some newbie miners whom our corp is designed to prepare for low-sec mining, etc.
It's ******ed that 5 year old characters can pick on people that are just starting to pad their killboards.
I hate killboard padding. That being said, destroying someone's industry corp is more than griefing: it's a valid and very reasonable tactic of war.
If I'm fighting you, or want you out of my system, I can try to kill your fighters ... or I can kill you're supply.
Industry causes more reason for war in this game than any other, INCLUDING killboards. Crafters often cry about how they are doing nothing, but they simply don't realize the importance of their profession. Killing a corps industry is often the ONLY way to kill that corp.
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Lee Dalton
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.07 19:55:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Agent Unknown While I don't mind PvP, corps wardeccing your industry-based corp just to grief you is plain stupid. We've lost billions so far ISK-wise because of it, as well as some newbie miners whom our corp is designed to prepare for low-sec mining, etc.
It's ******ed that 5 year old characters can pick on people that are just starting to pad their killboards.
Either learn to defend yourself or hire mercs to do the job for you.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.03.07 20:43:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Ruze You're missing the point, though.
From the moment you undock or touch a market screen, you're PvPing in some way. You're vulnerable to it. Other players CAN kill anything, anywhere, anytime. YOU can kill anything, anywhere, anytime.
Because there are some in-character rules which prevent this in .5+ space, does not change the fact that it's STILL a PvP game. If it wasn't, CCP would prevent you from attacking. That's what other games do. CCP doesn't, however. I can still kill you in hisec, IF I want to.
CCP introduced in-character laws to DISCOURAGE this behavior, but the do not prevent it. I can still rob from you, shoot you, destroy you, pod you, even scam you. It's against the laws of CONCORD, and liable to get me killed.
But it's still PvP, anywhere, anytime. It's entirely consensual, because EVERY new player is warned that this is the way EvE is. The moment you undock, you are open to attack. Whether you get attacked or not, because it's against an NPC law in-game, doesn't mean you're still not completely vulnerable to PvP at all times.
Not missed point, simply disagree.
I always find the "Everything is PVP" to be a technicality, not absolute.
EVE is a carebearland and counterstrike combined, caters both worlds, doesn't fully support either.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
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Hyveres
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.07 20:50:00 -
[51]
Ehh you can still suicidegank. It just more costly than it used to be.
As in the risk is higher than it was early when you could do a 10 mill net loss to get billions from a hauler , nowadays you just need more people to do the same.
Prenerf suicideganking was risk free and extremly profitable , heck it was soloable for people with 2-3 accounts a lot of the time and I find that rather disgusting.
Concord doesnt protect you they provide consequnces if you kill people in high security systems.
But honestly if you want "fair" fights you should be roaming through 0.0 anyway , but I reckon the risk of walking into an ambush or being hotdropped is too much for a carebearhating PvPer. "Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot." - Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound |
Holy Lowlander
Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.03.07 20:55:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Ruze You're missing the point, though.
From the moment you undock or touch a market screen, you're PvPing in some way. You're vulnerable to it. Other players CAN kill anything, anywhere, anytime. YOU can kill anything, anywhere, anytime.
Because there are some in-character rules which prevent this in .5+ space, does not change the fact that it's STILL a PvP game. If it wasn't, CCP would prevent you from attacking. That's what other games do. CCP doesn't, however. I can still kill you in hisec, IF I want to.
CCP introduced in-character laws to DISCOURAGE this behavior, but the do not prevent it. I can still rob from you, shoot you, destroy you, pod you, even scam you. It's against the laws of CONCORD, and liable to get me killed.
But it's still PvP, anywhere, anytime. It's entirely consensual, because EVERY new player is warned that this is the way EvE is. The moment you undock, you are open to attack. Whether you get attacked or not, because it's against an NPC law in-game, doesn't mean you're still not completely vulnerable to PvP at all times.
Not missed point, simply disagree.
I always find the "Everything is PVP" to be a technicality, not absolute.
EVE is a carebearland and counterstrike combined, caters both worlds, doesn't fully support either.
no thats not true sheriff. I can't 'just' explain what eve is. But I'll do it with the following :
WoW : Because we can't do anything else Counterstrike: Because we have to to win Eve : Because we can !
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Jinx Barker
Caldari GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2009.03.07 20:58:00 -
[53]
Nice troll....have a cookie.
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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CHAOS100
Widowmakers
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Posted - 2009.03.07 21:02:00 -
[54]
go back to wow --------------
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.03.07 21:05:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Holy Lowlander no thats not true sheriff. I can't 'just' explain what eve is. But I'll do it with the following :
WoW : Because we can't do anything else Counterstrike: Because we have to to win Eve : Because we can !
Can't shoot a homeless out of an artillery, can't marry an exotic dancer and can't ram my ship into stations 'cause i didn't like the last episode of "The pod and the campers" soap on EVE-TV...not a "we can" game yet
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.07 21:08:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Holy Lowlander no thats not true sheriff. I can't 'just' explain what eve is. But I'll do it with the following :
WoW : Because we can't do anything else Counterstrike: Because we have to to win Eve : Because we can !
Can't shoot a homeless out of an artillery, can't marry an exotic dancer and can't ram my ship into stations 'cause i didn't like the last episode of "The pod and the campers" soap on EVE-TV...not a "we can" game yet
Hahahah ...
Some might argue that you have unrealistic, and often disturbing, expectations!
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AnonyTerrorNinja
Minmatar Buggers' Advanced Interstellar Transport
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Posted - 2009.03.07 21:29:00 -
[57]
Originally by: "Spurty" hahaha .. I don't seriously want this as I've not really thought about it much, but its not been discussed yet, so lets see if its a good/bad idea.
Has been discussed.
Fail troll is fail.
You get a .5 from me on account of managing to get this many replies. 0.5/10 ---
Incognito - Fierce - Deadly - IFD (Intergallactic Federation of Dummies) aka ATN
Ikari Dimji > I mustn't run away... I MUSTN'T RUN AWAY... I MUSTN'T RUN AWA- ooh, skittles! :D
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.03.07 21:46:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Ruze
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Holy Lowlander no thats not true sheriff. I can't 'just' explain what eve is. But I'll do it with the following :
WoW : Because we can't do anything else Counterstrike: Because we have to to win Eve : Because we can !
Can't shoot a homeless out of an artillery, can't marry an exotic dancer and can't ram my ship into stations 'cause i didn't like the last episode of "The pod and the campers" soap on EVE-TV...not a "we can" game yet
Hahahah ...
Some might argue that you have unrealistic, and often disturbing, expectations!
Well, i'm just a fan of spesific terms.
Like if someone says awesome, i ask that did it ACTUALLY cause you awe. If someone says "that was the bomb", i tend to disagree if it's not a michael bay movie
So in EVE, "because we can" would include "what i want"
For now, i'm going to call it "within given parameters and restrictions, it's rather free."
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.07 22:38:00 -
[59]
It's "because we may", not because we "can".
PS with 1400mm howitzers, you could easily fire homeless people in bundles of 7.
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Korizan
Oort Cloud Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.07 23:01:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Esmenet Edited by: Esmenet on 07/03/2009 14:25:59
Originally by: Spurty
- pvpers need carebears - carebears need pvpers
Wrong. Carebears need pvp'ers because this game would have no purpose without it.
Pvp'ers dont need carebears as ship production can easily be handeled as a sideprofession or with alts.
Pure carebears are just leaching off pvp'ers.
I love this answer. It is okay to have a care bear ALT but it is not okay to have a care bear main.
OH and the system is fine the way it is,
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