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Slade Hoo Amarr xPlaguex	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:22:00 - [1] The Falcon is out of balance. Everyone in this Forum will agree to this statement. This is a statement against Falcons in the way it is implemented by CCP right now. We vote againt unbalanced ECM that is used right now in smaller or medium warfare in EVE. Everyone who is against Falcon-Warfare in small engagements shall vote by signing this thread:
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:23:00 - [2] Not signed. Petitions are bad, m'kay. Before Wormholes
Khlitouris RegusII	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:25:00 - [3] Edited by: Khlitouris RegusII on 10/03/2009 00:25:29 falcons are fine as they are so that blows your op out of the water. ECM is the only CHANCE based ew in the game how is that unbalanced? make all the other forms of ew CHANCE based then we can look at falcons.
jade ronin	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:26:00 - [4] falcons are not unbalanced just because you refuse to fit an eccm. ecm is fine the way it is.
Slade Hoo Amarr xPlaguex	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:26:00 - [5] Falcons are fine in BLOBS (Big large Online Battle), but are really imbalanced in small scale pvp (aka low sec behavior)
Khlitouris RegusII	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:27:00 - [6] Originally by: Slade Hoo Falcons are fine in BLOBS (Big large Online Battle), but are really imbalanced in small scale pvp (aka low sec behavior) how?
Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:28:00 - [7] Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII Originally by: Slade Hoo Falcons are fine in BLOBS (Big large Online Battle), but are really imbalanced in small scale pvp (aka low sec behavior) how? Because he's mad that his little inty can't touch it
Nick Curso Black Nova Corp KenZoku	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:29:00 - [8] Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII Originally by: Slade Hoo Falcons are fine in BLOBS (Big large Online Battle), but are really imbalanced in small scale pvp (aka low sec behavior) how? Lies u just made that up thats not what blob means...is it?
eFart	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:29:00 - [9] falons r cool
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:30:00 - [10] Originally by: Slade Hoo Everyone in this Forum will agree to this statement. Just for that, I'm going to argue that the Falcon is fine and does not need to be changed at all. Okay, so that isn't entirely true. The Falcon actually is in desperate need of a boost. I mean what the ****, it dies almost instantly when fired upon. Give the Falcon a tank! Also increase it's DPS. Also increase it's ECM capabilities. Pompous for CSM. Currently not forumbanned.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:32:00 - [11] Ok who left the door to ships and modules open again. Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman
Slade Hoo Amarr xPlaguex	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:33:00 - [12] I'm a Standard for warfare that doesn't use Falcons. My Corp HATES Falcons. We use'em cause everybody use'em; But thats not the Way Eve goes or the Players of Eve wanna go cause we just Wanna have fun as FALCONS. FALCON VS. FALCON IS MY JOB. WHAT YOU WANNA DO, MASTER?
Khlitouris RegusII	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:33:00 - [13] Originally by: Nick Curso Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII Originally by: Slade Hoo Falcons are fine in BLOBS (Big large Online Battle), but are really imbalanced in small scale pvp (aka low sec behavior) how? Lies u just made that up thats not what blob means...is it? Wut? or did you quote the wrong person?
Thernys Caldari Dark Force Recon	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:34:00 - [14] Edited by: Thernys on 10/03/2009 00:36:03 Meh. I trained to fly a Falcon long before all this ruckus about the ship. You know, when it wasn't seen as FOTM for whatever reason. Some time during the very height of nano***gotry. And guess what, the ship or jam mechanics haven't been changed at all between now and then. In fact I seem to remember it having been considered a pretty crap ship back then, or at best 'nothing special', just another Caldari boat not worth a second thought. So Falcons were ineffective against fast ships or something? OK, guess you should move along and start whining for a reversal of the speed changes (again) and hit two birds with one stone. Edit: Not a nanonerf whine, ship speeds are fine, ECM is fine, just go play the damn game.
Khlitouris RegusII	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:34:00 - [15] Originally by: Slade Hoo I'm a Standard for warfare that doesn't use Falcons. My Corp HATES Falcons. We use'em cause everybody use'em; But thats not the Way Eve goes or the Players of Eve wanna go cause we just Wanna have fun as FALCONS. FALCON VS. FALCON IS MY JOB. WHAT YOU WANNA DO, MASTER? Look up eccm in game.
Slade Hoo Amarr xPlaguex	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:38:00 - [16] Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII Originally by: Slade Hoo I'm a Standard for warfare that doesn't use Falcons. My Corp HATES Falcons. We use'em cause everybody use'em; But thats not the Way Eve goes or the Players of Eve wanna go cause we just Wanna have fun as FALCONS. FALCON VS. FALCON IS MY JOB. WHAT YOU WANNA DO, MASTER? Look up eccm in game. Dual ECCM won't work againt Falcons/Rook It's not an exactly countermeasure against ECM. I'd like a world without ECM while flying a Cruiser or Battleship!!! I fully accept your statement though
Khlitouris RegusII	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:44:00 - [17] TBH they should bring out an ecccm module and only allow falcons to fit them :)
Khlitouris RegusII	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:44:00 - [18] Edited by: Khlitouris RegusII on 10/03/2009 00:45:14 Originally by: Slade Hoo Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII Originally by: Slade Hoo I'm a Standard for warfare that doesn't use Falcons. My Corp HATES Falcons. We use'em cause everybody use'em; But thats not the Way Eve goes or the Players of Eve wanna go cause we just Wanna have fun as FALCONS. FALCON VS. FALCON IS MY JOB. WHAT YOU WANNA DO, MASTER? Look up eccm in game. Dual ECCM won't work againt Falcons/Rook It's not an exactly countermeasure against ECM. I'd like a world without ECM while flying a Cruiser or Battleship!!! I fully accept your statement though I think we'd all like a world with no ew at all but it aint gonna happen. or maybe they could release a version of eve with no modules at all wouldnt that be great?
Slade Hoo Amarr xPlaguex	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:46:00 - [19] Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII TBH they should bring out an ecccm module and only allow falcons to fit them :) they should bring an eccm module that only heretics are allowed to use. I'm an Amarr, so religion is very important to me. Listen to him!!
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:48:00 - [20] Here is proof mentlegen. Whining is easier than thinking.
Slade Hoo Amarr xPlaguex	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:49:00 - [21] AMARRRR!!!!!! PIE, CVA , etc. will just accept what I mean. Death to all defilers! LISTEN TO MY WORDS!!
Trebor Notlimah Lone Star EVE Group Veni Vidi Vici	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:50:00 - [22] Falcons are broke. Liars Below
Thernys Caldari Dark Force Recon	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:52:00 - [23] Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII Edited by: Khlitouris RegusII on 10/03/2009 00:45:14 I think we'd all like a world with no ew at all but it aint gonna happen. or maybe they could release a version of eve with no modules at all wouldnt that be great? Indeed. In particular these 'webbers' and 'scramblers' are an annoying form of EW, I fully condone the above statement. I think it would tremendously increase every single EVE player's enjoyment of PvP.
Slade Hoo Amarr xPlaguex	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:52:00 - [24] Edited by: Slade Hoo on 10/03/2009 00:52:44 Falcons are'nt broken. Reply to our stuff: Falcons need to be rebalanced!
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:52:00 - [25] Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII TBH they should bring out an ecccm module and only allow falcons to fit them :) I'd say I agree with this, except for one problem. We'd then have people complaining that the game needs an eccccm module. Pompous for CSM. Currently not forumbanned.
Slade Hoo Amarr xPlaguex	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:54:00 - [26] Edited by: Slade Hoo on 10/03/2009 00:54:45 ECCCCM Module is obsolete. We just need to get rid of Falcons tbh. They are Sodom and Gomorra in the Eve's lowsec Scene.
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:55:00 - [27] Originally by: Slade Hoo ECCCCM Module is obsolete. We just need to get rid of Falcons tbh. No. We need an ecccccm module to balance the eccccm module. Pompous for CSM. Currently not forumbanned.
eFart	Posted - 2009.03.10 00:56:00 - [28] Originally by: Slade Hoo Edited by: Slade Hoo on 10/03/2009 00:54:45 ECCCCM Module is obsolete. We just need to get rid of Falcons tbh. They are Sodom and Gomorra in the Eve's lowsec Scene. if u got probs wit falcons eccm mods r yo frend your either troll or dum
Slade Hoo Amarr xPlaguex	Posted - 2009.03.10 01:01:00 - [29] Originally by: eFart Originally by: Slade Hoo Edited by: Slade Hoo on 10/03/2009 00:54:45 ECCCCM Module is obsolete. We just need to get rid of Falcons tbh. They are Sodom and Gomorra in the Eve's lowsec Scene. if u got probs wit falcons eccm mods r yo frend your either troll or dum No Module will fix the falcon/rook-situation. If you balance those ships out, they will be a great benefit to EVE's Gameplay. I love Eve and am member for over 4 years and are therefore will act as a soil of EVE's destiny.
Gunnanmon Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2009.03.10 01:02:00 - [30] ibtm
Slade Hoo Amarr xPlaguex	Posted - 2009.03.10 01:02:00 - [31] Thumbs up This Topic is very important to Eve's History
Thernys Caldari Dark Force Recon	Posted - 2009.03.10 01:04:00 - [32] It's always a bitter moment to have something nerfed in a patch. Not because CCP decided something needs to change, but because somewhere, a whiner will think he got his way. If I didn't think sigs are a waste of space, that would be my new one.
eFart	Posted - 2009.03.10 01:06:00 - [33] Originally by: Slade Hoo Originally by: eFart Originally by: Slade Hoo Edited by: Slade Hoo on 10/03/2009 00:54:45 ECCCCM Module is obsolete. We just need to get rid of Falcons tbh. They are Sodom and Gomorra in the Eve's lowsec Scene. if u got probs wit falcons eccm mods r yo frend your either troll or dum No Module will fix the falcon/rook-situation. If you balance those ships out, they will be a great benefit to EVE's Gameplay. I love Eve and am member for over 4 years and are therefore will act as a soil of EVE's destiny. u can fit multiple eccm like this 1 by a falcon 2 fit 7 eccm 3 ??? 4 profit
Slade Hoo Amarr xPlaguex	Posted - 2009.03.10 01:06:00 - [34] Nothing is less productive than having lots of people saying everything ios alright.... GO ON WITH YOUR RESISTANCE!!! **** FALCONS!!!!
jade ronin	Posted - 2009.03.10 01:16:00 - [35] Edited by: jade ronin on 10/03/2009 01:16:50 Originally by: Slade Hoo Nothing is less productive than having lots of people saying everything ios alright.... GO ON WITH YOUR RESISTANCE!!! **** FALCONS!!!! and yet you still havent said how they are broken just that they are. But gods forbid everyone else disagree with you.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2009.03.10 01:20:00 - [36] Did you find out the name of the Gallente Tier 3 Battleship yet? - Infectious -
Khlitouris RegusII	Posted - 2009.03.10 01:21:00 - [37] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Did you find out the name of the Gallente Tier 3 Battleship yet? isnt that the maelhyperrokhaddon?
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2009.03.10 01:23:00 - [38] Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII Originally by: Rawr Cristina Did you find out the name of the Gallente Tier 3 Battleship yet? isnt that the maelhyperrokhaddon? my, that is one odd looking ship. - Infectious -
tropic89	Posted - 2009.03.10 01:24:00 - [39] please cry more you whinning little *****.
Khlitouris RegusII	Posted - 2009.03.10 01:25:00 - [40] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII Originally by: Rawr Cristina Did you find out the name of the Gallente Tier 3 Battleship yet? isnt that the maelhyperrokhaddon? my, that is one odd looking ship. Yeah but i'd love one.
Slade Hoo Amarr xPlaguex	Posted - 2009.03.10 01:27:00 - [41] You love it?
Dizeezer Velar Caldari League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees	Posted - 2009.03.10 16:01:00 - [42] yea get rid of ecm and delete caldari tbh.
Max Khaos Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.03.10 16:08:00 - [43] Complete Rubbish Counters for a Falcon = ECCM, Arazu, Snipers, Cerbs, Interceptors, Falcons, etc etc Nerf Falcons = Dumb and Lazy pilots.
Spurty Caldari Amok. Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.03.10 16:34:00 - [44] this is me laughing at ECCM being considered a counter to a 'chance based module'. Might as well fit something better in your midslot. ECCM is a waste of time. Oh and I fly falcons, so qq more about em. Makes me wanna dust one off. boom .. drama bomb was a direct hit, expect GoonSwarm posts on CAOD any second!
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.10 16:47:00 - [45] Nerf amarr.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.03.10 16:51:00 - [46] Nerf idiots who cry for nerfs.
Haakelen Gallente Angels. Acid.	Posted - 2009.03.10 16:56:00 - [47] Confirming falcons are unbalanced. They are far too front-heavy.
Kalrasha Cryton Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.10 17:01:00 - [48] My solution for ecm boats against you, 1 have at a min 1 t2 eccm in your mids, espceially if yoru a bs. 2 have someone with a projected t2 eccm they will give you a chance to dis jam the falcons jam strength. It has been proven. The freedom to do what you want, how you want, and when you want is not given to you, it is earned through tears, blood, sweat, and freindship. Keep your friends close, and your enemy's that much cl
p1ccard Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2009.03.10 17:18:00 - [49] As a falcon pilot I can say, with certainity, that I run away if someone so much as stares at me hard. The falcon is not out of balance; it has a paper tank, is not effective against drones and doesn't always work. If you want to complain, complain against tracking disruptors (three of them on one BS will make it unable to hit another BS). Also, use Sensor damps against falcons. we hate those. ******** p1ccard Strike Commander Duty.
Malin folkungs	Posted - 2009.03.10 17:32:00 - [50] For all you ECCM rtards out there you will still get permajammed with dual overheating ECCMS and 100+ sensor strength. But no worries the falcon is in balance. I'm sure you would all want a pilgrim in your fleet just as much as a falcon.
Dwain Chambers Big S Triangle	Posted - 2009.03.10 17:47:00 - [51] Why the falcon is too powerful: 1 falcon + 1 T1 BC of your choice > 5 HACs Basically falcons are too powerful against small fleets of smaller ships. IMO either they need to increase the sensor strength of small ships and/or add a sig radius factor into ECM. As for people arguing that damps/drones etc make the falcon balanced... if you are a smart falcon pilot and have appropriate bookmarks etc then there is rarely a need to uncloak with anything closer than ~200km making virtually ever counter measure bar ECCM worthless (this is also why the speed nerf made falcons more powerful). As a disclaimer I fly falcons quite a lot and recognise that a heavy handed nerf could very easily make them worthless again and right now I think that they are pretty balanced against BS and up.
Arch Miner	Posted - 2009.03.10 17:52:00 - [52] All you have to do is hit a falcon with a civilian gatling and it's toast. They are not overpowered. They do what their purpose in life is. If they only were marginally ok at it, nobody would fly them. Besides, if you nerf them, there wont be any caldari pilots left that fly caldari ships....
GOUSGOUNIS THEOS Minmatar Mean Corp Mean Coalition	Posted - 2009.03.10 17:52:00 - [53] LOL blobs use 20 ships with 10 falcons just to make sure nothing can shoot back. Falcons are kinda over the top compare to all the other ecm ships. M34N Killboard
Sun Clausewitz	Posted - 2009.03.10 17:56:00 - [54] You can kill a Falcon with an Ibis. After Burner + 2 Smart Bombs = dead Flacon and lots of lulz Ibis tank is better than Falcon Ibis DPS ia ebtter than Falcon Boost Falcon
Rafael Tonka Point of No Return Blade.	Posted - 2009.03.10 18:09:00 - [55] Originally by: Sun Clausewitz You can kill a Falcon with an Ibis. After Burner + 2 Smart Bombs = dead Flacon and lots of lulz Ibis tank is better than Falcon Ibis DPS ia ebtter than Falcon Boost Falcon Would love to see one of hose killmails :)
Sun Clausewitz	Posted - 2009.03.10 18:22:00 - [56] Edited by: Sun Clausewitz on 10/03/2009 18:21:54 Originally by: Rafael Tonka Originally by: Sun Clausewitz You can kill a Falcon with an Ibis. After Burner + 2 Smart Bombs = dead Flacon and lots of lulz Ibis tank is better than Falcon Ibis DPS ia ebtter than Falcon Boost Falcon Would love to see one of hose killmails :) Would love to see the kill-mails with all the amazing kills Flacon's score
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.03.10 19:10:00 - [57] Originally by: Max Khaos Complete Rubbish Counters for a Falcon = ECCM, Arazu, Snipers, Cerbs, Interceptors, Falcons, The problem really is that ECCM doesn't change the fact that it's chance-based, so even if it stacks things more in your favour, you won't notice it (can't tell if you're not being jammed because he hasn't activated a module on you or because the ECCM is actually working). Arazus should be a counter, but aren't since they don't have the range required to reduce the range of a range-fitted Falcon (that's a lot of "range" ) Snipers, cerbs, interceptors… yup… although interceptors tend to just be jammed too, which leads back to the ECCM problem (can't tell if you're not jammed because he has dedicated one module to the 'ceptor or because he's just not bothered with you at them moment). Falcons should ideally not be on the falcon-counter list — if a ship is its own counter, then it kills diversity almost by very design. Yes, it works, but other things should work better since it's too easy to just pile on more of the same thing otherwise. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Sissy Fuzz Amarr Sissy Fuzz Communications	Posted - 2009.03.10 20:35:00 - [58] Originally by: Slade Hoo The Falcon is out of balance. Everyone in this Forum will agree to this statement. This is a statement against Falcons in the way it is implemented by CCP right now. We vote againt unbalanced ECM that is used right now in smaller or medium warfare in EVE. Everyone who is against Falcon-Warfare in small engagements shall vote by signing this thread: Use ECCM. That's the whole idea. Sissy Fuzz The cutest n00b evarh
Chronos VIII Amarr Malevolent Evolution The Church.	Posted - 2009.03.10 20:41:00 - [59] I personally don't think that falcons are unbalanced in general, but the fact that you can jam up to 250km is kinda ridiculous tbh.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.03.10 20:53:00 - [60] If you want falcons "nerfed" then suggest an alternate role and/or ECM mechanism. (Good luck - no-one's succeeded in 5 years) If you just want ECM brought down to the same range as damps/TDs, then let's add some speed, a drone bay, a secondary EW and remove the need for 3x sig distort amps.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.03.10 21:03:00 - [61] Originally by: Malcanis If you just want ECM brought down to the same range as damps/TDs, then let's add some speed, a drone bay, a secondary EW and remove the need for 3x sig distort amps. Yes. Why do the Caldari only have one Ewar system? Give us some missile jammers, dammit! (According to the same logic as the other races' self-nefing ewar: cap warfare for cap-reliant Amarr ships, sig-warfare for small Minmatar ships, warp warfare for ~~surrender monkeys~~ Gallente) ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Shoukei Caldari Boobs Ahoy	Posted - 2009.03.10 21:05:00 - [62] Originally by: Max Khaos Complete Rubbish Counters for a Falcon = ECCM, (my falcon laughs at your puny 3 eccm's) Arazu (my falcon laughs at your puny dampener range), Snipers (my falcon laughs at you while jamming you outside of your guns range), Cerbs (lulz, read above puny noob), Interceptors (hahahahaha), Falcons (yes, everyone should fly falcons, because otherwise you fail), etc etc Nerf Falcons = Dumb and Lazy pilots. fixed
Dizeezer Velar Caldari League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees	Posted - 2009.03.10 21:11:00 - [63] Edited by: Dizeezer Velar on 10/03/2009 21:12:05 the only counter to a compitent falcon pilot is another falcon. otherwise, if the enemy falcon pilot is a nub, the other counters listed will work. ECCM is a joke. The poaster above me has it right.
Ariel Dawn Perkone	Posted - 2009.03.10 21:21:00 - [64] The only thing that can get near a Falcon in any decent time to tackle it is an interceptor. A Falcon will perma-jam an interceptor forever. Falcons are just like nano-ships, it's impossible to die in one if you have any awareness as a player in EVE in a small scale engagement. It is a lie to say otherwise, and you know it. Either severely nerf ECM, or let ECCM act as a burst that returns your locks (and nearby allies as well) when you get jammed, an activated ability. While anecdotal evidence isn't worth anything, I've had friends and myself perma-jammed with over 100+ sensor strength using ECCM.
Solid Prefekt Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.03.10 22:27:00 - [65] Originally by: Thernys And guess what, the ship or jam mechanics haven't been changed at all between now and then. What has changed is ships are now half the speed. So a Falcon is essentially 300km away when you factor the speed nerf. If you were to look at the whines you will see a HUGE increase of Falcon whines after the speed nerf.

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