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Wormholes... is there a chance none spawn?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.03.13 08:56:00 - [1] Edited by: MotherMoon on 13/03/2009 08:58:39 We've been stuck in Wormhole space for 3 hours now, and there is no wormhole leading out :( It was exisited 3 hours ago when it closed. Now it's not exsiting. We have 3 probers just runnign around lookign for a needle in a hair stack.. is it possible it could be 60 AU above or bellow us? This is getting insane :P the current fleet of 10 opinion is wormholes don't spawn until downtime?
Sawirek Caldari BLACK BARONS	Posted - 2009.03.13 09:07:00 - [2] Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 13/03/2009 08:58:39 We've been stuck in Wormhole space for 3 hours now, and there is no wormhole leading out :( It was exisited 3 hours ago when it closed. Now it's not exsiting. We have 3 probers just runnign around lookign for a needle in a hair stack.. is it possible it could be 60 AU above or bellow us? This is getting insane :P the current fleet of 10 opinion is wormholes don't spawn until downtime? Wormholes, just like other signatures, spawn 4AU from the planets. Yeah it's like finding a haystack sometimes, but a good prober will manage. I am deep in 0.0 yesterday and i am 5 jumps from Jita today, wormholes are fun :).
Karr Blanch The Nietzian Way	Posted - 2009.03.13 09:09:00 - [3] Originally by: Sawirek Wormholes, just like other signatures, spawn 4AU from the planets. Yeah it's like finding a haystack sometimes, but a good prober will manage. I am deep in 0.0 yesterday and i am 5 jumps from Jita today, wormholes are fun :). Someone didn't read the patch notes or dev blog. There is no longer a 4au limit on the location of ANY spawn.
Sawirek Caldari BLACK BARONS	Posted - 2009.03.13 09:11:00 - [4] Originally by: Karr Blanch Originally by: Sawirek Wormholes, just like other signatures, spawn 4AU from the planets. Yeah it's like finding a haystack sometimes, but a good prober will manage. I am deep in 0.0 yesterday and i am 5 jumps from Jita today, wormholes are fun :). Someone didn't read the patch notes or dev blog. There is no longer a 4au limit on the location of ANY spawn. Well after probing dozens of wormholes and sites in both W-Space and K-Space i can tell you i never found a signature more than 4 Au from the planet.
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2009.03.13 09:13:00 - [5] Dev said in devblog comments thread that there is always a way out - and no surprise there. If you really can't find a way out - petition. They'll either get you out or you get confirmation that you overlooked an exit. --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back! Laptop, NVidia7900GS, Ubuntu 8.04, WINE
Mudad Amarr	Posted - 2009.03.13 09:14:00 - [6] Originally by: Karr Blanch There is no longer a 4au limit on the location of ANY spawn. Agreed. The 4 au limit was there because the probes were static and could only be dropped at warp in spots. As this is no longer the case there was no need for such a limit. Last wormhole I found was 6 au from anything else in the system.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2009.03.13 09:18:00 - [7] I have never found a wormhole after more than half an hour of searching. All searches longer than that ended in failure and me logging out and trying again later. All the wormholes I have found I found within minutes. - DesuSigs
Sawirek Caldari BLACK BARONS	Posted - 2009.03.13 09:22:00 - [8] Originally by: Mudad Originally by: Karr Blanch There is no longer a 4au limit on the location of ANY spawn. Agreed. The 4 au limit was there because the probes were static and could only be dropped at warp in spots. As this is no longer the case there was no need for such a limit. Last wormhole I found was 6 au from anything else in the system. Yes i understand that, but i cannot find that mentioned anywhere and from my personal experience this has not changed. Btw a more advanced filter for the results would be nice, filtering the sites we alredy pinpointed, it's really a mess in W-Space with 60 signatures.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.03.13 09:28:00 - [9] I wish there was a way for a list to be generated. even if it didn't tell you WHICH were what, you could get like say, a list of WHAT is within range, so you could find what planet it's at, even if you dont' know which on is the wormhole. only 3 planets with sigs, we;re pretty sure got them all with bookmarks :(
Sawirek Caldari BLACK BARONS	Posted - 2009.03.13 09:35:00 - [10] This topic could really use a Dev to answer those questions.

Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2009.03.13 09:40:00 - [11] Originally by: MotherMoon I wish there was a way for a list to be generated. even if it didn't tell you WHICH were what, you could get like say, a list of WHAT is within range, so you could find what planet it's at, even if you dont' know which on is the wormhole. only 3 planets with sigs, we;re pretty sure got them all with bookmarks :( Uhm DS Probe at 256AU should give you your answer? I've collapsed many a w-hole, and always a new exit popped up. just look for unknown sigs, they are afaik all wholes. Never look for them with more then one probe, otherwise you get confused. It's all pretty easy really, normal time from logging in until probing a new exit ~6 minutes. _________________ - Rivqua - --- R.E.P.O. ---

CCP Prism X Gallente C C P	Posted - 2009.03.13 09:45:00 - [12] Edited by: CCP Prism X on 13/03/2009 09:48:29 Edited by: CCP Prism X on 13/03/2009 09:45:48 Three hours ain't that much.. Apocrypha has been live for ~66 hours and I've spent most of that time stuck in one WH system or the other At any rate, design says that you should always have a single exit wormhole from Wormhole space, although it's destination is in no way guaranteed. I've pretty much lived in wormhole space to confirm this, and so far I've had no problems (other than finding the buggers). The GMs do have tools to verify the existence of wormholes in your current system.. sadly one of them is broken on the LIVE server (although fixed internally, hopefully going out with the next update) but they do have a work-around that takes them slightly longer but is 100% accurate. However, as I'm such a nice person I ran a query and can tell you that things are working as intended in your current location. Edit: Confirming that the 4AU constraint is no more. Edit 2: Added exit wormhole mechanic clarification. ~ Prism X EvE Database Developer Relocating your character to a cozy, secure container since 2006. Relocating your cozy, secure container to the EVE cemetery since 2008.

MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.03.13 09:47:00 - [13] Edited by: MotherMoon on 13/03/2009 09:47:13 Originally by: CCP Prism X Edited by: CCP Prism X on 13/03/2009 09:45:48 Three hours ain't that much.. Apocrypha has been live for ~66 hours and I've spent most of that time stuck in one WH system or the other At any rate, design says that you should always have a single exit wormhole. I've pretty much lived in wormhole space to confirm this, and so far I've had no problems (other than finding the buggers). The GMs do have tools to verify the existence of wormholes in your current system.. sadly one of them is broken on the LIVE server (although fixed internally, hopefully going out with the next update) but they do have a work-around that takes them slightly longer but is 100% accurate. However, as I'm such a nice person I ran a query and can tell you that things are working as intended in your current location. Edit: Confirming that the 4AU constraint is no more. woo I hope that's also a confirmation that it isn't 120 AUs above us or something :P I think we'll look anyways :P
Victor Valka Caldari Kissaki Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.13 10:17:00 - [14] This is what dev posts should be like! CCP Prism X for President! Originally by: Spaztick You are not outnumbered, you are in a target-rich environment.
Sawirek Caldari BLACK BARONS	Posted - 2009.03.13 10:22:00 - [15] \o/ We should give him MOAR BEER \o/
Taedrin Gallente Golden Mechanization Protectorate	Posted - 2009.03.13 10:35:00 - [16] Originally by: Victor Valka This is what dev posts should be like! CCP Prism X for President! That's because CCP PrismX is made of win and eats his wheaties every morning.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.03.13 12:32:00 - [17] Originally by: CCP Prism X Edit: Confirming that the 4AU constraint is no more. Edit 2: Added exit wormhole mechanic clarification. So there's no restriction on the distance that a WH spawns from a planet. But is there a restriction on the range of a WH from the star? There must be some sort of restriction, because otherwise you could have WHs spawning at 245378435 AU range, being effectively unfindable. All missions spawn within 20 AU of the star - do WHs work in a similar fashion?
Thenoran Caldari Tranquility Industries	Posted - 2009.03.13 12:39:00 - [18] Originally by: CCP Prism X Edited by: CCP Prism X on 13/03/2009 09:48:29 Edited by: CCP Prism X on 13/03/2009 09:45:48 Three hours ain't that much.. Apocrypha has been live for ~66 hours and I've spent most of that time stuck in one WH system or the other At any rate, design says that you should always have a single exit wormhole from Wormhole space, although it's destination is in no way guaranteed. I've pretty much lived in wormhole space to confirm this, and so far I've had no problems (other than finding the buggers). The GMs do have tools to verify the existence of wormholes in your current system.. sadly one of them is broken on the LIVE server (although fixed internally, hopefully going out with the next update) but they do have a work-around that takes them slightly longer but is 100% accurate. However, as I'm such a nice person I ran a query and can tell you that things are working as intended in your current location. Edit: Confirming that the 4AU constraint is no more. Edit 2: Added exit wormhole mechanic clarification. Can you end up with a wormhole that leads to the same system? Can wormholes lead to Polaris or Jove space? ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
Sawirek Caldari BLACK BARONS	Posted - 2009.03.13 12:42:00 - [19] "Can you end up with a wormhole that leads to the same system?" Doubtfull, or better said, the chances are 1:9999999. "Can wormholes lead to Polaris or Jove space?" According to devs NO, but they did't seem to sure about it.
Phrixus Zephyr Prospero Incorperated	Posted - 2009.03.13 13:04:00 - [20] Originally by: CCP Prism X Edited by: CCP Prism X on 13/03/2009 09:48:29 Edited by: CCP Prism X on 13/03/2009 09:45:48 Three hours ain't that much.. Apocrypha has been live for ~66 hours and I've spent most of that time stuck in one WH system or the other At any rate, design says that you should always have a single exit wormhole from Wormhole space, although it's destination is in no way guaranteed. I've pretty much lived in wormhole space to confirm this, and so far I've had no problems (other than finding the buggers). The GMs do have tools to verify the existence of wormholes in your current system.. sadly one of them is broken on the LIVE server (although fixed internally, hopefully going out with the next update) but they do have a work-around that takes them slightly longer but is 100% accurate. However, as I'm such a nice person I ran a query and can tell you that things are working as intended in your current location. Edit: Confirming that the 4AU constraint is no more. Edit 2: Added exit wormhole mechanic clarification. In a system with 12 sigs that are all accounted for. There are no wormholes and hasnt been any for about a day and a half. This includes the crash last night and downtime. System is around 25au wide, i've also scanned around it to a reasonable degree (64au+ in all directions).


CCP Prism X Gallente C C P	Posted - 2009.03.13 13:05:00 - [21] Originally by: Thenoran Can you end up with a wormhole that leads to the same system? There is no code restriction in place to prevent that, however it's not very probable. Originally by: Thenoran Can wormholes lead to Polaris or Jove space? No. I would also like to clarify that I've only debunked the 4AU restriction. That does not mean that there is no restriction, only that it's no longer 4AUs. However, just because I'm a nasty one doesn't make us all nasty.. it's not umpteenthousand LY away from the furthest planet.. I believe it's on a per site type basis now and I wouldn't want to state the absolute maximum at this time (as I'm not 100% certain of it). ~ Prism X EvE Database Developer Relocating your character to a cozy, secure container since 2006. Relocating your cozy, secure container to the EVE cemetery since 2008.

Zey Nadar Gallente Stormwatch Galactic BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.03.13 13:07:00 - [22] Originally by: CCP Prism X Edit: Confirming that the 4AU constraint is no more. Edit 2: There must be some form of constraint on technical reasons, Im wondering what it is. And how deep in space can something be.
Gieron Middleton and Mercer LLP Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.03.13 13:51:00 - [23] Edited by: Gieron on 13/03/2009 13:52:46 Edited by: Gieron on 13/03/2009 13:51:54 Originally by: Sawirek "Can you end up with a wormhole that leads to the same system?" Doubtfull, or better said, the chances are 1:9999999. Actually, it is 1:7700 (5201 k-space systems + 2499 w-space systems). Well, it's probably higher since it is supposed to be more probable that it connects back to a system of the same security status (as it connected to before). EDIT: Then again, it might be lower because it might be more probable that it leads back to k-space than that it leads to another w-space system. Perhaps. EDIT 2: Should say k-space, not empire.
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2009.03.13 13:54:00 - [24] Originally by: CCP Prism X Edit: Confirming that the 4AU constraint is no more. So what is the constraint now? Surely there is something keeping wormholes from spawning 50 AU from any planets? ----------- Originally by: CCP Whisper Deal with it.
Chryzopraz	Posted - 2009.03.13 14:22:00 - [25] Originally by: Gamer4liff Originally by: CCP Prism X So what is the constraint now? Surely there is something keeping wormholes from spawning 50 AU from any planets? Deep space probe has range of 1024 AU, right? So I guess, the limit is 1024 AU Regards Chryzopraz
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.03.13 14:32:00 - [26] Originally by: Chryzopraz Deep space probe has range of 1024 AU, right? So I guess, the limit is 1024 AU Regards Chryzopraz I seriously doubt it. In smaller systems the solar map doesn't even zoom out that far. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Agrilad	Posted - 2009.03.13 15:05:00 - [27] While testing on sisi someone mentioned 12 AU as the limit. personally I am still developing my own strategy to scanning down w-space sigs. As is since they put in deviation. Scanning down 30 sigs with deviation on them sucks. My old strategy was to put 4 deep space ou at sufficient rang to encompass system. To give solid hits on them all. I'd then go in with 4 cores to nail down each sig. This worked well till deviation was introduced or fixed on sisi. I've started doing a last planet first mentality. and only covering around 12 au. So I can start weeding out the easier sigs. ie. those not clumped together on the inner system.
Miranda Matari key tech limited	Posted - 2009.03.13 15:38:00 - [28] Edited by: Miranda Matari on 13/03/2009 15:41:35 Originally by: Agrilad put 4 deep space out [blabla] I'd then go in with 4 cores to nail down each sig. Why don't you keep on using the Deep Space Probes ? Ok, i'm in a rigged Covops with a Sisters launcher BUT i never had to use core probes so far. Everything could easily be scanned with Deep Space Probes. It's a lot less of a hassle because i usually get a warpable hit with the probes at 2 or even 4 AU. Dev-Question: If a wormhole always has at least one exit - couldn't it be possible that you find the only wormhole in system - leading to another unknown system - and that 2nd unknown system has also exactly 1 wormhole - to the previous unknown. So you could have an exit, but only beeing able to jump between two systems isnt it ;) (ofc you could collapse on on purpose etc) -- Miranda Matari of the key tech limited
Dkorg	Posted - 2009.03.13 15:51:00 - [29] Originally by: MotherMoon the current fleet of 10 opinion is wormholes don't spawn until downtime? Then the current fleet of 10 is wrong. The devs have stated one spawns immediately. I've watched a WH despawn and found the next one within 15 minutes. Sometimes they can be hard to find in all the chaff but it's there.
Arous Drephius Perkone	Posted - 2009.03.13 15:57:00 - [30] Prism X ftw. Seriously, more devs should post like this.

TheG2 Gallente Dirty Rotten Scoundrels	Posted - 2009.03.13 15:58:00 - [31] Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 13/03/2009 08:58:39 We've been stuck in Wormhole space for 3 hours now, and there is no wormhole leading out :( It was exisited 3 hours ago when it closed. Now it's not exsiting. We have 3 probers just runnign around lookign for a needle in a hair stack.. is it possible it could be 60 AU above or bellow us? This is getting insane :P the current fleet of 10 opinion is wormholes don't spawn until downtime? I got locked in a hole that started in the Placid region. I started scanning and noticed there were 31 Cosmic Signatures in the system, after about 11 Grav sites and 3 Ladar sites (3+ hours later), I found a wormhole exit to Esoteria. At first my opinion was along the lines of "screw this". But after I found the exit and ended in Esoteria, it suddenly made me realize how much life this breathes into the game. Esoteria was a death trap so I found another wormhole that brought me to Venal, then another that went to Empire, overall, it's exciting, the key is just don't give up. "Wormholes" is a decent channel for sharing your experiences in-game.
Nareg Maxence Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.13 16:48:00 - [32] All the way down at the bottom of the wiki article on probing: http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Apocrypha_Probing it says - Quote: Cosmic Signatures will always be within 4 AU of celestial objects. Keep this in mind when narrowing down targets. CCP, the Three Headed Giant strikes again.. :)
Intigo Amarr Endemic Aggression Exalted.	Posted - 2009.03.13 16:58:00 - [33] Originally by: Nareg Maxence All the way down at the bottom of the wiki article on probing: http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Apocrypha_Probing it says - Quote: Cosmic Signatures will always be within 4 AU of celestial objects. Keep this in mind when narrowing down targets. CCP, the Three Headed Giant strikes again.. :) Outdated now then. ___________________ ENEMA, much love. <3
Dmian Gallente Gallenterrorisme	Posted - 2009.03.13 16:59:00 - [34] Originally by: Nareg Maxence All the way down at the bottom of the wiki article on probing: http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Apocrypha_Probing it says - Quote: Cosmic Signatures will always be within 4 AU of celestial objects. Keep this in mind when narrowing down targets. CCP, the Three Headed Giant strikes again.. :) It's a wiki, edit it! ---- Originally by: Anne M. Lindbergh There is no sin punished more implacably by nature than the sin of resistance to change
McCathie Gallente Two Brothers Mining Corp. Kraftwerk.	Posted - 2009.03.13 17:13:00 - [35] Hey - Nice responses. I have read up on the stuff understand that there is always a way out, however my alt is stuck in a WH space spot just now and having real problems getting out. Skills include astro 5 so its more than a tad frustrating. Can i ask - if we are saying there is always a way out, does that infer there there are always 2 wormholes in a wh space system - i.e. a way in and another way out? I ask, as the reason i am 'stuck' in present system is that i jumped there after a wh closed behind me in another system. it wouldnt make much sense for that to be the only way in or out, would it? or do i have to wait on one WH closing after i get in the system so i can get to the next? Grateful for any wise words - and i will keep scanning. Cath
Nareg Maxence Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.13 17:52:00 - [36] Originally by: Dmian It's a wiki, edit it! I can't! It's locked! :) I have added a comment to the discussion though.
digitalwanderer Gallente Eve Corporation200901210	Posted - 2009.03.13 18:27:00 - [37] Next time use deep space probes to filter out all the gravimetric,manetometric and ladar sites that are still considered cosmic sigantures,and focus on the results that the deep scan probes describe as unknown cosmic signatures. Once at that point,retrieve the deep space probes and deploy the core ones to get an exact fix,which is likely a wormhole,just that until you warp to it you won't know where it leads. It really does filter out all the crap hits much more quickly,making it much less like finding a needle in a haystack,should you use only core probes in wormhole space. The exclusive use of core probes on empire side work just fine.
Akiba Penrose	Posted - 2009.03.13 19:05:00 - [38] Originally by: Victor Valka This is what dev posts should be like! CCP Prism X for President! QFT
B1FF	Posted - 2009.03.13 20:55:00 - [39] Originally by: McCathie Hey - Nice responses. I have read up on the stuff understand that there is always a way out, however my alt is stuck in a WH space spot just now and having real problems getting out. Skills include astro 5 so its more than a tad frustrating. Can i ask - if we are saying there is always a way out, does that infer there there are always 2 wormholes in a wh space system - i.e. a way in and another way out? I ask, as the reason i am 'stuck' in present system is that i jumped there after a wh closed behind me in another system. it wouldnt make much sense for that to be the only way in or out, would it? or do i have to wait on one WH closing after i get in the system so i can get to the next? Grateful for any wise words - and i will keep scanning. Cath Wormholes are two way. Thus 1 WH provided both in and out.
Phrixus Zephyr Prospero Incorperated	Posted - 2009.03.13 23:46:00 - [40] My system was bugged after all. Prism X came and had a look and then the GMs moved me. Nothing was spawning in it, not just wormholes.

Amantus Gallente Neckbeards International	Posted - 2009.03.14 00:43:00 - [41] Originally by: digitalwanderer Next time use deep space probes to filter out all the gravimetric,manetometric and ladar sites that are still considered cosmic sigantures,and focus on the results that the deep scan probes describe as unknown cosmic signatures. Uh, how do I do this? ------------
Luxior	Posted - 2009.03.14 06:43:00 - [42] Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr My system was bugged after all. Prism X came and had a look and then the GMs moved me. Nothing was spawning in it, not just wormholes. i wished that happened to me. instead i lost my 40mil ISK Buzzard and my pod... :-( sad day. already have a new one though :-)
CHAOS100 Widowmakers	Posted - 2009.03.14 08:15:00 - [43] Edited by: CHAOS100 on 14/03/2009 08:14:53 I was just in a wormhole-in-a-wormhole, so I had to travel through another one to get out. When we spent much longer than we should have gas mining, I went back to discover the empire entrance had none other than collapsed. On the spot where it was there were a couple people probing, so I asked them what they had found and not much. I don't think they were very good probers tbh. Then I used my cov ops in the gas system we were in, found a wormhole to low sec. I then told the people in local about the one I found, brought them through the hole to the 2nd system, then warped everyone to the new exit wormhole. There might have been one in the system they were probing, but I was too lasy to check. --------------
Turiel Demon Minmatar Inhumation Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.14 11:27:00 - [44] About wormholes leading to other wormholes, and there always being an exit: Is there always an exit to K-space? I can easily imagine a few W-space systems linking to each other, without an actual route to K-space ^_^
Landarin	Posted - 2009.03.15 18:56:00 - [45] Originally by: Turiel Demon About wormholes leading to other wormholes, and there always being an exit: Is there always an exit to K-space? I can easily imagine a few W-space systems linking to each other, without an actual route to K-space ^_^ I'd read Prism's response as meaning there is always an exit to K-space. After creating a petition though (there were no wormholes to k-space in my system, only unknown so I thought something was wrong) I found this isn't the case, there is always an exit wormhole, but it can take you to more unknown space. I also asked if this means you can essentially be stuck between two systems which only lead to each other, and it seems you can. You just have to wait/make the wormholes de-spawn. Ian
Irida Mershkov Gallente Shadowsun Syndicate	Posted - 2009.03.15 19:37:00 - [46] Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 13/03/2009 08:58:39 We've been stuck in Wormhole space for 3 hours now, and there is no wormhole leading out :( It was exisited 3 hours ago when it closed. Now it's not exsiting. We have 3 probers just runnign around lookign for a needle in a hair stack.. is it possible it could be 60 AU above or bellow us? This is getting insane :P the current fleet of 10 opinion is wormholes don't spawn until downtime? Execute your current prober and get a better one tbh.
Zarroh	Posted - 2009.03.20 09:15:00 - [47] This. If your fleet cant handle WHs, stay out of them. One more advice, have your fleet eject and pod yourself. Then confirm your action in this thread. Thanks. Originally by: Irida Mershkov Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 13/03/2009 08:58:39 We've been stuck in Wormhole space for 3 hours now, and there is no wormhole leading out :( It was exisited 3 hours ago when it closed. Now it's not exsiting. We have 3 probers just runnign around lookign for a needle in a hair stack.. is it possible it could be 60 AU above or bellow us? This is getting insane :P the current fleet of 10 opinion is wormholes don't spawn until downtime? Execute your current prober and get a better one tbh.
ollobrains2 Gallente New Eve Order Holdings	Posted - 2009.03.20 09:36:00 - [48] true story Gens - wormhole - wormhole - wormhole - wormhole - jesra ( or some sounding name was up in citadel) i took my hauler several times thro and the holes were all reasonable. 4 w systems and a tunnel thro space. Most ive found so far has been 4 in between
Benco97 Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.20 09:56:00 - [49] I've had a funny experience with wormholes. I sold a bookmark to a perimeter site to a little group of people new to W space who were all in cruisers. I waited 30 mins and went to collect the salvage On a kinder note though I thing wormholes are great fun (Despite the fact that I still find far too many) Originally by: P'uck You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.


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