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Su Yildiz
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Posted - 2009.03.13 10:29:00 -
[1]
Why did you drop the prices of the new probes just 4 days after patch?
One hour after patch the new standard probes cost 150k pr unit, about 4 hours later they cost 60k pr unit - WHY?
Now I didn't expect the prices to stay at 150k pr unit for long, but after only four days the prices are down to where they were before patch.
Yesterday the price dropped from around 40k to about 30k during the day. Even though the DEMAND on the market was insane compared to pre-patch. Now, undercutting each-other is a part of the game on the market, but cutting down 5000-10000 ISK in one jump is just stupid.
Why do you people DO that? You ruin the market for everybody else!
Don't give me any excuses about prices being "fixed" and whatnot, when something is in demand you DO NOT LOWER THE PRICES by a factor of 50% !
All of you people who kill the market to be "good-guys" can just go to the nearest airlock and jump.
So from 150k to 23k in 4 days, I will just say... yaaaay *cheer* great work n00bs
I expect a lot of people will go through the usual internet-meme's and flaming, and to all of you people I would suggest you go somewhere else and find something else to do. Anybody flaming or not contributing constructive arguments in this thread is a bunch of loosers :)
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Wee Trade
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Posted - 2009.03.13 10:39:00 -
[2]
someone just got owned 
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Iloni Atoriandra
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.13 10:40:00 -
[3]
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Xi Xing
Gallente
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.13 10:44:00 -
[4]
Sounds to me like others are trying to make many, quick sales for low margins - whereas you'd rather sell fewer but with a large margin.
Remember you can buy all the probes at 30k and re-list them at 100k if you are sure that's their proper value.
It seems to me that the ability to recall probes means the demand for them will not be as high as you might expect. I've yet to 'use up' a single probe from the stock I bought on patch day. They're not like ammo.
Hope that's constructive?
Here's the unconstructive bit: Eve market is pvp and you just lost 
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BeBop Lula
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Posted - 2009.03.13 10:56:00 -
[5]
With the new system you have a max need for 8-10 probes per ship unless you are foolish or lose the ship.
Since all varieties of probes switched to one probe, there are 1000 of probes in peoples inventories. Price is based on Demand and supply and supply will totally out way demand so price needs to drop.
be pleased you got 150k for those first probes.
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Snasty
Caldari
The Hippies
House of Mercury
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Posted - 2009.03.13 11:52:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Xi Xing
It seems to me that the ability to recall probes means the demand for them will not be as high as you might expect. I've yet to 'use up' a single probe from the stock I bought on patch day.
This...
Post patch I have 250+ probes sitting in my hanger, I imagine it will take me a long time to use them up...
---------------------------------------
-=Snasty, short for Shagnasty ever since the GM's in SWG made me change it...!=- |
Mia Morningstar
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Posted - 2009.03.13 12:03:00 -
[7]
1 core probe is ~1700 isk worth of minerals. enjoy while it last.
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Confuzer I
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Posted - 2009.03.13 12:13:00 -
[8]
People don't undercut 24/7. When they go to bed/work, they undercut by a large margin, still hoping to sell something.
Also, some just like to tease people like the OP :)
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.13 12:36:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Su Yildiz
Why did you drop the prices of the new probes just 4 days after patch?
One hour after patch the new standard probes cost 150k pr unit, about 4 hours later they cost 60k pr unit - WHY?
Now I didn't expect the prices to stay at 150k pr unit for long, but after only four days the prices are down to where they were before patch.
Yesterday the price dropped from around 40k to about 30k during the day. Even though the DEMAND on the market was insane compared to pre-patch. Now, undercutting each-other is a part of the game on the market, but cutting down 5000-10000 ISK in one jump is just stupid.
Why do you people DO that? You ruin the market for everybody else!
Don't give me any excuses about prices being "fixed" and whatnot, when something is in demand you DO NOT LOWER THE PRICES by a factor of 50% !
All of you people who kill the market to be "good-guys" can just go to the nearest airlock and jump.
So from 150k to 23k in 4 days, I will just say... yaaaay *cheer* great work n00bs
I expect a lot of people will go through the usual internet-meme's and flaming, and to all of you people I would suggest you go somewhere else and find something else to do. Anybody flaming or not contributing constructive arguments in this thread is a bunch of loosers :)
Your stuff, can I have it?
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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Victor Valka
Caldari
Kissaki Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.13 12:47:00 -
[10]
5/10
But just for the smug smile it gave me.
Originally by: Spaztick
You are not outnumbered, you are in a target-rich environment.
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Linda Tradition
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Posted - 2009.03.13 14:51:00 -
[11]
this is a problem everywhere at everytime.
but well, i hold back with update speculation in endproducts cause everybody does. and when everybody think he'd be the big player, buying 10k probes to sell them 500% after update it should be clear, that there are so many greenhorn trying to get the fast profit too, dont understanding what they are doing. dont see that there are other guys on the market who can cut them etc.
probes have what a produce time? 15min? high risk trading...
but yeah your right, there are a lot of people out there ruining price-differences quiet hard. always funny to see 1000 pieces sell orders t2 stuff as lowest region price, brought with -20% onto the market. i dont know what it is behind this kind of manipulation, but perhabs somebody can explain this behavoir.
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Jalum Krayal
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Posted - 2009.03.13 15:02:00 -
[12]
Too bad you can't get Killmails for the amount of ISK damage you do to someone's wallet.
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Mahke
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.03.13 15:10:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Confuzer I
People don't undercut 24/7. When they go to bed/work, they undercut by a large margin, still hoping to sell something.
Also, some just like to tease people like the OP :)
that and this: "Sounds to me like others are trying to make many, quick sales for low margins - whereas you'd rather sell fewer but with a large margin."
I wasn't in your market, but, dislike .01 games, like annoying the people who play them, like my stuff selling overnight/overday, go for volume over margins (compared to item norm), and don't have any one particular thing I buy and sell so if I break a market to make some quick isk, no big deal for me.
Also your tears are delicious etc. etc.
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SencneS
Amarr
Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2009.03.13 15:22:00 -
[14]
Corp mate of mine was left holding the bag of about 200,000 core probes, Local region had none on the market after DT (Duh) he listed 100,000 of them for 50,000 each, someone purchased them ALL and re-listed for 90,000 yeah, he just re-listed for 50,249 (the price + 0.01 less off sales tax.
Within 5 minutes 1 of the re-listed probes was purchased and a rather nasty mail came to his In-box. No one competed with him for a day or two, but now he has about 12,000 left selling for 5K.
I think 5K will be the magic number for these as people buy them up in groups of 20-50 for whatever reason. Considering you can recover them it's kinda pointless make these a business.
Amarr for Life |
kralz
Gallente
Draconic Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.13 16:10:00 -
[15]
it was me who dropped price by 50% and joy of free market and guess what
Bite me :)..... feel free to buy em all
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Madcat Adams
Amarr
Romulan Technologies Limited
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Posted - 2009.03.13 16:35:00 -
[16]
Meh, that's Eve. Saw the same thing happen with probe launchers. For that matter, every new thing that's ever come out. If you want quick money, hit it running from patch start. Then be prepared for your final stock of whatever to sell for ludriciusly low prices. Just another day of market fighting in the Eve universe. 
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Dreamwalker
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Posted - 2009.03.13 16:40:00 -
[17]
So I did exploration before, I had 1,000 of each type and of each range. Now I have a **** load of the same probes. So why not try and dump them on the market.
If you don't like it, buy one and then get name, then war dec them.
Originally by: CCP Whisper
Local chat in known 0.0, low sec and empire space will remain as it is today, in all it's insta-intel giving, afk cloaker panic inducing, jita trade spamming glory.
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Maestro Del'Tirith
Del'Tirith Holdings
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Posted - 2009.03.13 21:12:00 -
[18]
Gave me a chuckle, two thumbs up.
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Breaker77
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Posted - 2009.03.13 22:58:00 -
[19]
While it was short lived I managed to sell well over 10,000 probes in the first 2 days from between 100k and 50k a probe. Was quite nice 
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Dragonz Fire
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.03.13 23:09:00 -
[20]
It's not ruining the market moron. It's helping the market.
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Loney
CyberDyne R-D
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Posted - 2009.03.13 23:51:00 -
[21]
Perhaps you... Originally by: Su Yildiz
...can just go to the nearest airlock and jump!
..
Check us out Now!
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.14 03:11:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Akita T on 14/03/2009 03:15:25
Gee, I don't know, maybe the fact you can easily build around 1k probes a day on a single slot from a single blueprint, and that at negligible build costs, the 60k per probe is nearly all profit, so you're making nearly 60 mil ISK/day per manufacture line PROFIT.
Hmm, I wonder why ANYBODY would want to unload theirs first, hmm...
I fully expect the price to drop to around 10k per probe or even lower in another couple of days, then settle somewhere UNDER 5k per probe, probably even as low as 3k.
_
Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
searchi
tiberian suns
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Posted - 2009.03.14 07:34:00 -
[23]
why undercut by a large margin? because the competition needs to feel pain when undercutting you.
taking away the motivation of the competitors is important.
in my dealings my own profit making has the same priority as denying profit to the competitors
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Nick Turing
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Posted - 2009.03.14 10:13:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Su Yildiz
Why did you drop the prices of the new probes just 4 days after patch?
One hour after patch the new standard probes cost 150k pr unit, about 4 hours later they cost 60k pr unit - WHY?
Now I didn't expect the prices to stay at 150k pr unit for long, but after only four days the prices are down to where they were before patch.
Yesterday the price dropped from around 40k to about 30k during the day. Even though the DEMAND on the market was insane compared to pre-patch. Now, undercutting each-other is a part of the game on the market, but cutting down 5000-10000 ISK in one jump is just stupid.
Why do you people DO that? You ruin the market for everybody else!
Don't give me any excuses about prices being "fixed" and whatnot, when something is in demand you DO NOT LOWER THE PRICES by a factor of 50% !
All of you people who kill the market to be "good-guys" can just go to the nearest airlock and jump.
So from 150k to 23k in 4 days, I will just say... yaaaay *cheer* great work n00bs
I expect a lot of people will go through the usual internet-meme's and flaming, and to all of you people I would suggest you go somewhere else and find something else to do. Anybody flaming or not contributing constructive arguments in this thread is a bunch of loosers :)
How dare people interfere with your god-given right to price-gouge! Those bastards!
Seriously, it's a free market; people can set whatever price they think they can make a profit at. If you can't deal with it, go somewhere else - and take your whining with you.
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Clair Bear
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.03.14 19:50:00 -
[25]
It's a dead horse, but consider this. I have nearly 60 production pipelines available to me. When something as obscenely profitable as probes and launchers comes along I make as much as I can as quickly as I can, crashing the market
IN HOPES THAT YOU BUY ME OUT
and are left with a large inventory when the music stops. Because I can always make more. Lots more. Lots and lots and lots more. Patch day I had untrained market alts cranking launchers out from unresearched prints to sell to speculators at obscene prices. It was great while it lasted.
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dr doooo
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Posted - 2009.03.15 00:50:00 -
[26]
I've just finished updating my orders, and have often done exactly what annoys you sooo much.
I've been trading for almost 4 years now, and I only want to look at trade windows a couple of times a month for a few minutes at a time these days. I want to (at least) cover my game losses and plex card though, so that means I am setting my prices based on what, in my experience/opinion, the market will bear, in order to have all my orders just about filled when I check back in a week or two. If I think something is overpriced, there is no point in me pricing relative to other orders, as I will find myself with a totally unsold sell order, and a load of overpriced **** in my hanger. If I think something is underpriced, I will also put up sell orders way higher than you.
Consider this a free lesson from one of those idiot n00bs ;)
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Remus Kurgan
Caldari
Void Engineers
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Posted - 2009.03.15 01:17:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Su Yildiz
I expect a lot of people will go through the usual internet-meme's and flaming, and to all of you people I would suggest you go somewhere else and find something else to do. Anybody flaming or not contributing constructive arguments in this thread is a bunch of loosers :)
hyperbole?
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Challis
Caldari
Volition Cult
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2009.03.15 11:47:00 -
[28]
These things happen a lot.
basically you have the ppl who are dedicated to trading at a certain hub, they know whats going on.
then come the ppl who only sell a few things just once, and they set a stupid low price to sell it fast.
problem is, it doesnt sell fast enough, and another stupid onetime trader sets up a bigger amount at that same stupid low price.
And then a bunch of lemmings follow the low price and start undercutting there.
this offcours sucks for the local dedicated traders, and by the time you can some complain about it on the forums the idiots who started all this are long gone to jita or somewhere else :p
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Martosh Toma
Gallente
Fraction Investment
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Posted - 2009.03.15 18:29:00 -
[29]
High margins invite competition, especially on things that have a high amount sold /day.
So basically these (new?) people undercutting you is punishment for your being so greedy. 
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Clair Bear
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.03.15 20:10:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Challis
then come the ppl who only sell a few things just once, and they set a stupid low price to sell it fast.
...
this offcours sucks for the local dedicated traders
I can *taste* how stupid that statement is. If the manufacturer in question is dumping at an unreasonably low price
BUY THEM OUT
and make huge profits! If you don't then clearly you believe their pricing was fair and you were simply enjoying unrealistic margins due to lack of competition before.
I've got 9 manu-alts to feed raw materials, I don't have time to play .01 ISK footsie at some backwater trade hub. Buy my stuff cheap, resell it and make a killing. That's why I price it so cheap in the first place!
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Linda Tradition
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Posted - 2009.03.16 00:01:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Linda Tradition on 16/03/2009 00:02:49
Originally by: Clair Bear
BUY THEM OUT
and make huge profits! If you don't then clearly you believe their pricing was fair and you were simply enjoying unrealistic margins due to lack of competition before.
I've got 9 manu-alts to feed raw materials, I don't have time to play .01 ISK footsie at some backwater trade hub. Buy my stuff cheap, resell it and make a killing. That's why I price it so cheap in the first place!
theoretical this correct but, there is one point missing: volume / demand.
just happening right know:
small tradehub
t2 drones: avgprice 440k, for this region about 460k daily volume: 300x
sellorder: 1500x 400k
buy it out, yeah great move, when i'd have th money perhabs. but why? i'd need ages to sell 1500 drones there, or have to look for other spots in the empire.
unfortunatly, this guy is not the only one who sells drones. so the rest of the producers play the undercut game. no there are bout 2500units pushing the avg down wards. and no one does really sell fast.
there are not strong enough competitors to buy such an order out of the market. So it doesnt work for the produces. this 1500unit sellorder is untouched for a week now. this guy hasnt sold only one unit. it justs droped the price down 15%
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Kat Bandeis
Caldari
Virtual Rock Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.16 05:32:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Kat Bandeis on 16/03/2009 05:33:37
Would you like some cheese with that whine?
Lower your prices and take the busines back. Otherwise shut--- well, you know. :)
Edit: sounds like I need to bring in probes and launchers at 1000k per... :)
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Maven Deltor
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Posted - 2009.03.16 06:31:00 -
[33]
I'm no math genius, but if the daily volume is 300, and he's selling 1500, why would it take you so long to get rid of them? Sounds like it'd take 2 weeks with less than half the market share. This whole thread is kind of silly. As someone said, buy the low stock if you think it's low. If someone is oversaturating the market, it just means they are a bigger player in this game of trade, and you've lost due to size. Go out somewhere else, and get more capital to throw against those obviously bad deals... unless ofcourse, the market was really over priced to begin with...
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Linda Tradition
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Posted - 2009.03.16 15:17:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Maven Deltor
I'm no math genius, but if the daily volume is 300, and he's selling 1500, why would it take you so long to get rid of them? Sounds like it'd take 2 weeks with less than half the market share. This whole thread is kind of silly. As someone said, buy the low stock if you think it's low. If someone is oversaturating the market, it just means they are a bigger player in this game of trade, and you've lost due to size. Go out somewhere else, and get more capital to throw against those obviously bad deals... unless ofcourse, the market was really over priced to begin with...
2weeks? without any other compitor maybe. unfortunatly this is an open market and there are a lot of guys bringing in there on production some smaller some bigger. true im a smaller one, so im in a bad position.
but i still dont see sense for the bigplayers to load such an amount of units.
the market has 300selling per day - great. he brings 1500 would take him 5days just to sell his own order, when there is no one else at the market. lets calculate it low and say there are 3 other bigger competitors looking for the money and 7 smaller ones (polly the 0.1isk gamers). makes 10 other guys.
the big player isnt a 0.1guy, thats why he load cheap, so he think that he will buyed out fast.
but then the smaller ones come in, bringing 200units / day into the market and they dont want to wait for 1500 to sell. cause the market is to small for such a buyout. so they sell lower.
its about production time. it simply doesnt rent to buy so many drones, cause buying 1500 and reprice them, doesnt work, when you dont want to play 0.1 all day long.
the other traders will simply still upload there 200drones every view days and when you want to buy, u just eat inventory.
conclusion:
- the big player doesnt sell anything
- the short term traders doesnt sell anymore, cause low profit range
- the small producers sell well but vor low profit.
this gives me to the end, that a small producer has spared a lot drones for saving a low, but constant profit. but here you have to calculate wether it rent, locking 1500 items. i dunno the production cost of this special drone. but lets give this 400k order 20k margin pu. 1500x 400k to lock the market = 600m
600m / 20k = 30000 units t2 drones to sell, with 300 units / day = 100 day till it rent. (when this guys sell 100% of the regions units)
i still dont see any sence in such an action sry oO
but im really pleased for furhter explanation to understand it
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Resamo
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Posted - 2009.03.16 22:07:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Su Yildiz
Yesterday the price dropped from around 40k to about 30k during the day. Even though the DEMAND on the market was insane compared to pre-patch.
Who cares what the demand was on the market, i bet the supply was 100x times that..
I came back after the patch and found i had oever 2000 scan probes that dont expire anymore, most i need is 4....
So i need 4 to last me forever of my 2000 probes, sounds like if there were any other people like me the market will be flooded with scan probes.
You may sell the probes but you have no idea what there current game mechanic is. i wish i unloaded my probs at 150k a peice damn... but probably another 100 people in tash area were thinking that and thats why you had a massive market crash.
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Arpad Elo
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Posted - 2009.03.17 01:17:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Su Yildiz
cutting down 5000-10000 ISK in one jump is just stupid.
I don't think so... but my understanding of economics is pretty limited.
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Ji Sama
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Posted - 2009.03.17 06:13:00 -
[37]
Tash-Murkon Prime Industries sees no problem with the TM-P trade hub..
Infact we incourage all to come to this system to do their trading :D
Ji Sama
CEO TM-P Industries
"the majority of men has been dealt cards to a game they do not know how to play"
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Gaius Aemilius
Wormhole-space Surveying and Exploitation
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Posted - 2009.03.17 15:26:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Su Yildiz
Why did you drop the prices of the new probes just 4 days after patch? One hour after patch the new standard probes cost 150k pr unit, about 4 hours later they cost 60k pr unit - WHY?
UR MARKIT LUKS TASTI.
OM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM!
CAN HAZ UR MARKIT!!!!!!
KTHXBAI
(put less colloquially, because we can and we enjoy your tears more than profits. or maybe because we want volume not margin)
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MILK Monk
Rytiri Lva
R.U.R.
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Posted - 2009.03.17 23:05:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Arpad Elo
Originally by: Su Yildiz
cutting down 5000-10000 ISK in one jump is just stupid.
I don't think so... but my understanding of economics is pretty limited.
yes, it is very stupid... unless you have "secret" plan with bigger cutting steps, then it can be very clever
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I do it myyyy wayyyy... Milky Way. |
amarrsuit
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Posted - 2009.03.18 04:44:00 -
[40]
Edited by: amarrsuit on 18/03/2009 04:44:32
Not that I play the market, but it seems to me people only "play the market" to make isk to sell it to spammers. If that assumption is correct, all I can say is Burn Baby Burn!
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