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Ms Delerium
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Posted - 2009.03.14 15:36:00 -
[1]
Which is better? Considering Tactical Shield Manipulation skill screws the shield (specially on passive tanks)
-IF I + TSM lvl 1
-IF II + TSM lvl 4
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.14 15:37:00 -
[2]
Um T2 is always better. TSM has a trivial effect on tanking.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.03.14 16:04:00 -
[3]
Tactical Shield Manipulation is bad but its so small its effectively unnoticeable.
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How to Passive Shield Tank
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Imaos
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Posted - 2009.03.14 16:46:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Pottsey
Tactical Shield Manipulation is bad but its so small its effectively unnoticeable.
TSM is good:
It prevents you from taking armor damage you need to repair. (Not much dmage, but annoying)
Having damage bleed through to armor isn't save you on passive tanking as you are under peak recharge anyway and it won't bleed enough through to help you get over the sweet spot again.
Imaos
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Originally by: NoNah
My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari. |
Vindarten
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Posted - 2009.03.14 16:48:00 -
[5]
TSM only screws shields on paper. In reality, it starts kicking in below 20%, and if your shields are getting that low, you should be running, as you're past the peak recharge.
Taking it to IV prevents armor damage during tight spots (ie, last minute killing the BS breaking your tank, or aligning to gtfo) which saves you from having to repair it.
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Ms Delerium
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Posted - 2009.03.15 01:09:00 -
[6]
oh thanks
i had read a huge thread about TSM nerfing the shields (its locked now due to inactivity) but yup I guess it was just a "nerd discussion" lol.
training for T2 
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.03.15 01:43:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Ms Delerium
oh thanks
i had read a huge thread about TSM nerfing the shields (its locked now due to inactivity) but yup I guess it was just a "nerd discussion" lol.
training for T2
Could you link that thread? It's the first time I've heard of this and I'm curious as to why it nerfs the tank |
Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2009.03.15 01:51:00 -
[8]
T2 hardeners are worth it :)
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Veryez
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Posted - 2009.03.15 02:02:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Cambarus
Originally by: Ms Delerium
oh thanks
i had read a huge thread about TSM nerfing the shields (its locked now due to inactivity) but yup I guess it was just a "nerd discussion" lol.
training for T2
Could you link that thread? It's the first time I've heard of this and I'm curious as to why it nerfs the tank
It nerfs the tank since the lower the level of TSM, the earlier damage bleeds into armor, thus the higher your recharge rate while your armor is absorbing damage. As stated this really doesn't make a big difference to passive shield tanks since by that point you're past peak recharge, but shield recharge @ 20% is much higher than recharge @ 0%. You do notice it when armor tanking.
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2009.03.15 07:18:00 -
[10]
The TSM debate seems somewhat silly. Assuming that I have perfect skills (and, for the purposes of the skills in question I do), that I never bleed into armor until my shield totally collapses strikes me as a non issue. My shields have better resists across the board AND I have substantially more shield HP than armor or hull. No matter how I slice that particular apple it seems that there is never a point at any style of tanking that makes TSM even somewhat harmful to my tanking. Simply put, when 70% of your EHP is on the shields, why would you want to take damage ANYWHERE else? In my mind that seems like the start of a bad day.
Even in the case of passive tanking where this might theoritically make the slightest bit of sense, by the time I have hit the 25% mark and start bleeding onto my armor (if poorly skilled) it doesn't really make any difference - I have still passed my peak recharge meaning my defenses have collapsed and the only thing I really have to go with is sheer HP (and passive shield tanks don't have much of that past the armor).
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.15 07:23:00 -
[11]
More importantly, I suspect you will take much more damage due to the lower resists given by a T1 invulnerability field than you will from any problems with the skill. And that's only considering one very narrow tanking scenario, for all other purposes the T2 modules are mandatory.
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2009.03.15 07:28:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
More importantly, I suspect you will take much more damage due to the lower resists given by a T1 invulnerability field than you will from any problems with the skill. And that's only considering one very narrow tanking scenario, for all other purposes the T2 modules are mandatory.
This is probably the more important thing to consider. That and a passive tank nukes your cap recharge and those T1 invuls aren't nearly as cap friendly as the T2's. Running a pair of T1's with bad support skills means you'll cap out eventually. Even if you CAN shrug off the damage while everything is up and running, what's the point of a passive tank if it has a natural shelf life?
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.03.15 07:30:00 -
[13]
Imaos said "Having damage bleed through to armor isn't save you on passive tanking as you are under peak recharge anyway and it won't bleed enough through to help you get over the sweet spot again."
It saved me before. Mind you we are talking single figures on the amount of times it happened over a 4 year timeframe. A while back I made a mistake and got my shields down to 11% and with zero cap from nos I had to stay in combat. If I had maxed out TSM my shields would have most likely dropped below 11% and I would have died. Pretty sure it was lowlevels of TSM that allowed me to stay alive and low TSM that meant I managed to get my shields from 11% to 55%..
I don't agree the passive tanks are dead under 30% or 25% shields. You still have decent regen down to about 10 to 15% shields. The regen doesn't massively drop off till the sub 10% range. Still I don't recommend fighting at that low shield strength unless you are sure you can survive long enough.
I do agree for the most part TSM never makes any noticeable difference. Its only made a difference something like 4 times in over 4 years for me.
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How to Passive Shield Tank
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Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.03.15 07:46:00 -
[14]
I would wager that you will get way more benefit from having TSM at 4 than from any minimal benefit you will gain from having it at 1. It's better IMO to keep your shields higher in the first place, than to have a weaker tank and hope that perhaps you will survive because some damage bleeds through to your armor.
I just really don't see a strong argument for not training this skill to 4.
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Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
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Posted - 2009.03.15 12:06:00 -
[15]
The point that has been whinged about in the past is that TSM is a worthless skill except that it's required.
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V05
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Posted - 2009.03.15 16:53:00 -
[16]
Do as rich ppl do, don't get T2's, just get Faction, and you don't need to train. Granted if you PVP - get T2's so you don't lose Faction.
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