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EVE need more isk sink

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Belmarduk Amarr M.A.R.S. Enterprises	Posted - 2009.03.16 06:21:00 - [31] Remove insurance and macroers - Simple fix Mainchar:
Karr Blanch The Nietzian Way	Posted - 2009.03.16 06:24:00 - [32] Originally by: Belmarduk Remove insurance and macroers - Simple fix What would you propose to do to 'remove' macroers?
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2009.03.16 06:29:00 - [33] Originally by: Karr Blanch Originally by: Belmarduk Remove insurance and macroers - Simple fix What would you propose to do to 'remove' macroers? Instead of giving out bounties, trade goods like sleepers drops should be implemented for ALL rats. Isn't that easy enough?
Holy Lowlander Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.03.16 06:30:00 - [34] insurence should be lowered tbh. Especially for battleships. losing 200 battleships in some silly 0.0 engagement doesn't really matter as you replace the thing isk-wise in about 1 hour .... The only problem is getting it to 0.0 but that has nothing to do with isk sinks ... I mean , when you run level IV missions you even make ****loads of isk.
Karr Blanch The Nietzian Way	Posted - 2009.03.16 06:32:00 - [35] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Karr Blanch Originally by: Belmarduk Remove insurance and macroers - Simple fix What would you propose to do to 'remove' macroers? Instead of giving out bounties, trade goods like sleepers drops should be implemented for ALL rats. Isn't that easy enough? How does this remove macroers? It just makes them mine instead of rat.
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2009.03.16 06:39:00 - [36] Originally by: Karr Blanch How does this remove macroers? It just makes them mine instead of rat. It increases the barrier to entry for macroing. It requires more logistics. Mining is also not an ISK faucet, which this thread is all about
Karr Blanch The Nietzian Way	Posted - 2009.03.16 06:47:00 - [37] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Karr Blanch How does this remove macroers? It just makes them mine instead of rat. It increases the barrier to entry for macroing. It requires more logistics. Mining is also not an ISK faucet, which this thread is all about Ore = Minerals = ISK? Ore appears magically each downtime. How is it not an ISK faucet?
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2009.03.16 06:53:00 - [38] Originally by: Karr Blanch Ore = Minerals = ISK? Ore appears magically each downtime. How is it not an ISK faucet? Ore can be made into minerals which can be exchanged for ISK. An ISK Faucet is a mechanic which outputs more ISK than was put into it on a macro-scale. Mining does NOT create ISK anywhere along the line.
Karr Blanch The Nietzian Way	Posted - 2009.03.16 07:02:00 - [39] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Karr Blanch Ore = Minerals = ISK? Ore appears magically each downtime. How is it not an ISK faucet? Ore can be made into minerals which can be exchanged for ISK. An ISK Faucet is a mechanic which outputs more ISK than was put into it on a macro-scale. Mining does NOT create ISK anywhere along the line. Ore -> Minerals -> Ships -> Boom -> Insurance?
Belmarduk Amarr M.A.R.S. Enterprises	Posted - 2009.03.16 07:03:00 - [40] Hmm it might also help a little if CCP enforced their Eula a little more instead of keeping a protective hand over all those macroers........... Mainchar:
Jin Nib	Posted - 2009.03.16 07:03:00 - [41] What I'd like to see are ship maintnece fees and as some one mentioned docking fees and hanger fees as well. Im sure there is a ton of junk in most ppls hangers, what ever happened to rent? Seriously, given that ships are supposed to have crews one would suppose they'd want to be paid, what about fuel? I think these things would help give a reason to actually go out to make ISK to keep you BS running and whatnot. For me it would furthur imersion in the environment. Can you imagine having to pay death benifits on dead crewmebers? That'd make you feel a little bad about loosing your ship at least....
Eran Laude Gallente The Astral Order	Posted - 2009.03.16 07:06:00 - [42] Go to Rancer - the sinkhole of the galaxy. The galactic ISK plug is in there - when removed it will cause all ISK to disappear! Go on - fly to Rancer! ----- Originally by: "CCP Whisper" Boo hoo. Cry some more.
Arden Loque	Posted - 2009.03.16 07:07:00 - [43] I'd be down with that. Fuel Charges, Docking Fees, crewing fees. New crew must be bought everytime your ship goes kaboom, the more times it goes kaboom, the more expensive the crew gets. Obviously you could get high quality staff, maybe you'd need higher quality staff for the bigger ships. There's plenty of ways of doing it.
Belmarduk Amarr M.A.R.S. Enterprises	Posted - 2009.03.16 07:08:00 - [44] A docking fee of lets say 100 - 1000 isk would perhaps be a good idea for an isk-sink. Some alliances have a docking fee for their outposts,but then thats not an isk-sink. Mainchar:
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.03.16 07:18:00 - [45] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Andrea Erlang In before MD vets, Akita or whoever sees this first, but PvP is not an isk sink, since modules do not generate ISK by themselves, minerals are mined and ISK is only transfered between parties, but it doesn't actually exit the game. Unless you only use faction fittings that you buy from LP stores. OMG Rabble rabble rabble Insurance is an ISK faucet. According to you even wormholes are an overpowered isk faucet(despite the fact you seem to have no idea how the economy in eve works and think three NPC buy orders break the game) So despite the big gold shiny letters you're out of your element. ------------------------------------------------- Everyone hates goonswarm for one reason or another. ... And they promote ***gotism -Zurrar
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.03.16 07:19:00 - [46] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Karr Blanch Originally by: Belmarduk Remove insurance and macroers - Simple fix What would you propose to do to 'remove' macroers? Instead of giving out bounties, trade goods like sleepers drops should be implemented for ALL rats. Isn't that easy enough? Wait you have a big hurf blurf thread about how the sleeper drops go against the grain of the game. Also along those lines lets remove isk and LP bounties off missions and mission npcs. :) Your only source of loot will be the physical loot and the salvage. Since your goal is an entirely player driven market this will work out best right? ------------------------------------------------- Everyone hates goonswarm for one reason or another. ... And they promote ***gotism -Zurrar
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.03.16 07:22:00 - [47] Before anyone tries to argue my "nerf missions" post I am simply pointing out how terrible of an idea this is. No need to get your CNR covered panties in a bunch. I have no desire to ** on your missions so long as you keep your grubby nerf screaming hands off my rats and sleepers. ------------------------------------------------- Everyone hates goonswarm for one reason or another. ... And they promote *gotism -Zurrar
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2009.03.16 07:47:00 - [48] Originally by: EdFromHumanResources According to you even wormholes are an overpowered isk faucet(despite the fact you seem to have no idea how the economy in eve works and think three NPC buy orders break the game) So despite the big gold shiny letters you're out of your element. Strawman argument a lot, eh? Well, nice trolling. If you actually read the thread you would know I'm not exactly saying that wormholes are an overpowered isk faucet.
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2009.03.16 07:49:00 - [49] Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Wait you have a big hurf blurf thread about how the sleeper drops go against the grain of the game. It's an idealogical discussion. It's no whining-thread about how sleepers are overpowered like you make it out to be. Quote: Also along those lines lets remove isk and LP bounties off missions and mission npcs. :) Your only source of loot will be the physical loot and the salvage. Since your goal is an entirely player driven market this will work out best right? No. As I already said, we MUST have ISK faucets to make up for ISK sinks. Economic growth isn't inherently bad, as long as it's under control.
Hadreus	Posted - 2009.03.16 09:35:00 - [50] If you make that much, good for you. Buy yourself another carrier. The rest of us work hard for our benjamins.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.16 09:57:00 - [51] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 16/03/2009 09:57:57 Originally by: LaVista Vista Instead of giving out bounties, trade goods like sleepers drops should be implemented for ALL rats. Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Karr Blanch How does this remove macroers? It just makes them mine instead of rat. It increases the barrier to entry for macroing. It requires more logistics. Mining is also not an ISK faucet, which this thread is all about I doubt there are macro running combat missions. It is highly probable there are macro or sweatshops running tons of courier missions. So it will not cure macro using in any way. Still a good thing to implement.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.16 10:07:00 - [52] Originally by: Jin Nib What I'd like to see are ship maintnece fees and as some one mentioned docking fees and hanger fees as well. Im sure there is a ton of junk in most ppls hangers, what ever happened to rent? Seriously, given that ships are supposed to have crews one would suppose they'd want to be paid, what about fuel? I think these things would help give a reason to actually go out to make ISK to keep you BS running and whatnot. For me it would furthur imersion in the environment. Can you imagine having to pay death benifits on dead crewmebers? That'd make you feel a little bad about loosing your ship at least.... Sure, but think about it a bit: 1) player go away 1 month, return and he has no isk and his ships have been impounded; 2) trader set up a buy order with a x jump range, get items sold in several stations and all his gain disappear in station fees; 3) you buy something, it get in you hangar in the station, pay hangar fee; 4) you remove a module or charge from your ship, it get in the hangar in station, pay fee; 5) you dock, pay fee. Beside the probable cost of all the above, it mean that the server would have to calculate the new fee or if there is a change in the fees you how every time you dock/undock, fit/unfit a module, buy something, sell something, put up a sell order, cancel a sell order, move something to and from corp hangar, start a research job, end a research job, ecc. To sum it up, every time you change what is in your hangar. Care to guess how fast lag will build up?
Kaivos Pyydys	Posted - 2009.03.16 10:12:00 - [53] Originally by: Useful Alt nothing more to say Stable market prices prove that there is no considerable inflation and there is no need of additional isk sinks. If you or anybody in this thread feel that they have too much isk, open up people & places find character named kaivos and send it over.
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.03.16 10:29:00 - [54] Originally by: mechtech I don't want the days of mining for months for a BS, but I do think it's a bit too easy now. It's nice to stop along every ship class on the way to a BS. The ship I most enjoyed was a Wolf (Assault Frigate). I killed pirate BCs for a couple of weeks to afford a Thorax BPO and kick start my industry career. Quote: You don't want to spend time mining for months for a BS, but you think it's too easy to make ISK now? Isn't that a contradiction there? It seems to me what you actually mean is that you don't like the younger players having an easier time of it than you did. There is also the fact that there is an economic effect that means the more money you have, the easier it becomes to make money. It should get easier for you over time, because that is the nature of business. If you spent all the ISK you had and started from scratch, I'll wager that you would have as much trouble now as when you first started. I get fed up of all these 'ISK is too easy to acquire' threads. If you have too much ISK, why not buy a carrier or a dreadnaut and fly it into lowsec and challenge all comers? What's that? You're not suicidal? Well, if you run and hide from all encounters (not that I'm knocking it as a tactic, as I do the same), then you're not losing the ISK. And the issue with insurance? Have you tried flying tech 2 ships? You're guaranteed to lose money taking those into battle. PvP is an ISK sink, but only if you stay and fight. I can make decent enough money to risk battleships routinely, but not enough to throw them away too cheaply, and I'm very cautious with my tech 2 ships. However, I want to earn more than I'm spending, and that's taking me time, as I need to invest ISK in other things (speculate to accumulate). If you have too much, then don't whine about it, just spend it. But if you want another ISK sink, then just donate 10% to me on a weekly basis. I won't complain about having the extra dosh.
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2009.03.16 10:34:00 - [55] Originally by: Kaivos Originally by: Useful Alt nothing more to say Stable market prices prove that there is no considerable inflation and there is no need of additional isk sinks. If you or anybody in this thread feel that they have too much isk, open up people & places find character named kaivos and send it over. Actually. There has been considerable inflation in the T2 market due to the POS exploit and the like. Economic growth ISN'T equal to inflation. Inflation is EXCLUSIVELY measured by indices(Price baskets).
Unbowed Ash Gallente Ad Astra Vexillum Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.16 10:36:00 - [56] T2 ships - you get 10% of ISK back IF you insured it. T2 fits - need I say more. Rigs - they ussualy cost 50% of the hull. Try flying 250+ mil Astarte into a rowing gang. Then loose 3 in 2 weeks. Does it sound like ISK sink ? Not to mention what ISK sink will be to loose T3 ship in few months. Oh yes - we will PVP in them. So you see - there are ISK sinks for people that have the guts to fly proper ships. T1 ship with T1 fits is just a step towards T2. Something to do while waiting on skills.
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2009.03.16 10:39:00 - [57] Originally by: Unbowed Ash T2 ships - you get 10% of ISK back IF you insured it. T2 fits - need I say more. Rigs - they ussualy cost 50% of the hull. Try flying 250+ mil Astarte into a rowing gang. Then loose 3 in 2 weeks. Does it sound like ISK sink ? Not to mention what ISK sink will be to loose T3 ship in few months. Oh yes - we will PVP in them. So you see - there are ISK sinks for people that have the guts to fly proper ships. T1 ship with T1 fits is just a step towards T2. Something to do while waiting on skills. Wrong. Losing a ship is ALWAYS an ISK Faucet. No ISK is taken out of the economy when you lose a ship. But ISK is ALWAYS added when you lose a ship.
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.03.16 10:47:00 - [58] Originally by: Belmarduk Remove insurance and macroers - Simple fix Remove insurance and watch at least half the PvP evaporate overnight. Most of the PvP participants cannot afford to lose ships without insurance. And the macroers? Well they exist because people buy ISK, and the more ISK that is bought, the more macroers will exist in-game. It's supply and demand, and where real-life economics interfaces with in-game economics. Now, if ISK were just that easy to obtain in-game, why do these people even exist? Answer: it isn't as easy to make money in-game as people are whinging about. Just because a few people have ISK coming out of their ears, doesn't mean everyone has. If you have great wealth that's burning a hole in your pocket, then spend it. Take great risks with expensive ships (maybe fly around hunting rather than low-risk gatecamping in a fleet). Maybe invest in your corp, buying armaments for their territory and financing pushes into other corporations' territories. Build or buy a titan and spearhead an offensive. If all your corpmates are as flush as you are, then they should have no trouble with affording big ships. Declare war on a corp with an equal footing and do your best to hammer them into submission. You could even be a philanthropist and give your money away to people you feel are deserving (which would devalue the macroers). If all these things are not worthy of spending money on, then perhaps you're just bored of EVE, and maybe you should try something else.
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.03.16 11:05:00 - [59] Edited by: Ratchman on 16/03/2009 11:10:24 Originally by: LaVista Vista Wrong. Losing a ship is ALWAYS an ISK Faucet. No ISK is taken out of the economy when you lose a ship. But ISK is ALWAYS added when you lose a ship. Not for the person who lost the ship, it isn't. Again, if ISK is added to the economy whenever a ship is destroyed, then there can't be much PvP happening, as the more PvP occurs, the more likely the economy will collapse. Asteroid fields are created out of nothing, right? And NPC rats, too, right? These are both additions to the economy, and provide a source of income for people. People spend their money on ships and PvP. Ship gets destroyed. A large portion of the ship's total value will get destroyed too, leaving only a percentage as loot and salvage. Other people could make money from this, but wrecks do disappear if left untouched. Now, even if the pilot insures a T1 ship for 100%, they have still lost money, as the insurance wasn't free, and neither was the modules. It maybe not such a great loss, but it's a loss none the same. Therefore, ISK is taken out of the economy via the loss of modules and the cost of the insurance. If the wreck is unsalvaged, then the surviving value will also evaporate. The only way I can think of a ship's destruction adding to the economy is if you fly an insured ship with no modules, or fly something like a battleship with only frigate modules, but how many ships does that encompass? I may have got this wrong, so please elaborate on where the ISK creation is here?
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2009.03.16 11:14:00 - [60] Originally by: Ratchman Not for the person who lost the ship, it isn't. A loss in personal wealth is not an ISK sink. You have to consider things on a macro scale rather than just think about your own wallet. ISK Faucets and Sinks are defined on a macro-scale. Trying to discuss it on a micro-scale goes to prove your ignorance to EVE as more than your your own little experience of it.

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