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Illayne Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2009.03.16 00:21:00 - [1] I am starting to look into training for t2 frigates/cruisers for PvP, what kind of ships are highly recommended and are in high demand for a 0.0/small gang warfare? This is for pilots that are still less than a year old in terms of combat skill point training. Gallente and Minmatar ship skills related preferably.
achoura	Posted - 2009.03.16 00:23:00 - [2] Zealot is easily the least skill intensive hac and the falcon, assuming you skip missile skills, is the least skill intensive recon. *The EVE servers and their patches*
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.16 00:23:00 - [3] Interceptor.
Warrio Southern Cross Incorporated Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.03.16 00:31:00 - [4] If you want to be useful to a 0.0 alliance in a recon or HAC then train a falcon. Sure, the Zealot and Vaga are nice for little funtime pointless roaming gangs but in fleet warfare, anything that's not a falcon is second rate. sXe
achoura	Posted - 2009.03.16 00:44:00 - [5] Originally by: Warrio If you want to be useful to a 0.0 alliance in a recon or HAC then train a falcon. Sure, the Zealot and Vaga are nice for little funtime pointless roaming gangs but in fleet warfare, anything that's not a falcon is second rate. Ignorance is bliss. *The EVE servers and their patches*
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.16 00:55:00 - [6] Originally by: achoura Originally by: Warrio If you want to be useful to a 0.0 alliance in a recon or HAC then train a falcon. Sure, the Zealot and Vaga are nice for little funtime pointless roaming gangs but in fleet warfare, anything that's not a falcon is second rate. Ignorance is bliss. Yep
Renarla	Posted - 2009.03.16 01:06:00 - [7] Less than a year old? Interceptors and Covert Ops are very easy to get into. HACs and Recons are great, but they require about a years worth a training for a new character.
Illayne Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2009.03.16 01:16:00 - [8] Are Gallente T2 AS/HACs so much more weaker now? There isn't many of them that are worth flying compared to Minmatar/Amarr ships? My skill points are high in drones and hybrid weapons, I would like it to link up to my Gallente Battleship goals in the future.
Renarla	Posted - 2009.03.16 01:23:00 - [9] Tbh I find the Gallente HACs lacking, but the Ishkur is one of the best AFs at the moment. (If not the best.)
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.16 01:42:00 - [10] AS you are a starter in pvp you should use cheap ships like ceptor and assaultfrigs until you got some experience. These costs like 20-30m fit included a hac costs 90-110m without fit.

arbiter reformed Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.03.16 02:40:00 - [11] zealots are not non skill intensive you must be having a laugh srsly... anyway ceptors is the way to go , ranis or crusader
TimMc Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.03.16 02:43:00 - [12] Originally by: Naomi Knight Interceptor.
Artemis Rose Sileo In Pacis SIRRIUS.	Posted - 2009.03.16 02:46:00 - [13] Interdictor as well. Young pilots should probably stay out of T2 ships until they can comfortably lose them. A lot of T1 ships PvP a lot better and can do it much more cheaper (T1 cruisers can kill AFs easily and BCs can kill HACs easily as an example). *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats
Dethis Caldari Queens of the Stone Age Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2009.03.16 02:49:00 - [14] Train up for a HAC imo but don't bother flying one for a while, a well fit t1 cruiser and BC's are underestimated imo --------
Illayne Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2009.03.16 02:54:00 - [15] Edited by: Illayne on 16/03/2009 02:56:18 I think I will go ahead and do that(train for interceptor). Is a Taranis any good? In terms of speed and dodging turrets fire from cruisers and above?
arbiter reformed Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.03.16 02:55:00 - [16] Originally by: Illayne I think I will go ahead and do that. Is a Taranis any good? its awesome takes alot of thinking to fly, lethal ship but crusader is more versatile and awesome solo too
UMEE Tactical Initiative	Posted - 2009.03.16 03:00:00 - [17] i would recommend aiming for the Ishkur, tech 2 drones and tech 2 small guns. this will allow you to make money easily, and the skills will be transferable. in addition, this is probably the best AF in the game. as your drone skills get up there, you can start planning for the Ishtar. it's a fantastic ship, and its t1 variant (the Vexor) is one of the best t1 cruisers for both pvp and pve. as your cruiser 5 skill is training, you should spend some time in the Dominix. eventually, you'll be flying it the most. somewhere in there, id train evasive maneuvering 5 for the ranis/ares. once you have frig 5, it's only an extra 10 days. these ships will allow you smooth entry into some pvp. this is the path i took and i didnt have any regrets. ive been active in pvp and pve, trying many different things. overall, i would not recommend training for minnie ships at this point; they require quite a bit of skill points in different areas. for example, to effectively fly the Typhoon, you'll need t2 drones, armor tanking skills, t2 missiles and t2 guns. minnie ships are something to aim for as a distant goal because theyre quite skill intensive.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2009.03.16 03:14:00 - [18] Originally by: Illayne Are Gallente T2 AS/HACs so much more weaker now? There isn't many of them that are worth flying compared to Minmatar/Amarr ships? My skill points are high in drones and hybrid weapons, I would like it to link up to my Gallente Battleship goals in the future. Gallente is still pretty good. The Deimos is quite hopeless (but then it's always been quite hopeless) and I have no idea how the Enyo is doing (because I haven't seen it flown in over a year now), but the Ishkur, Ishtar, Ares and Taranis are all good. The taranis is one of the best low-sec/empire war solo-interceptors, capable of dueling against other frigates (including inties) and taking out soft targets (and it's a superb addition against heavier enemies when used in frigatepacks). The Ares is an excellent tackler. The Ishkur is a superb vessel against frigate/cruisersized targets thanks to it's large dronebay. Finally, the Ishtar packs a lot of firepower for its size. It can be used successfully as a 0.0 gatecamper (sentries), 0.0/low-sec etc. Also, thanks to its low-slots and that it deals its damage through drones its hard to predict what an Ishtar will be packing. It can be shieldtanked, armortanked (though not at the same time), use a DPS fit (shieldtanked with MFS in the lows), E-war or Neuts in the highs. Zealot&Falcon is FOTM, but the Ishtar is quite a respectable vessel. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn.
Illayne Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2009.03.16 04:00:00 - [19] Thank you all for the great info so far. Any suggestions for a reasonably priced ishkur fitting for pvp? What is the biggest drone type that can fit in it by the way?
AKULA UrQuan Caldari Druuge Crimson Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.16 05:16:00 - [20] Interceptor. Crow does just fine even with mediocre missile skills.

Lt Angus Caldari End Game. Dead End.	Posted - 2009.03.16 05:23:00 - [21] HIC BABY please resize your signature to the maximum allowed file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers
Zhilia Mann	Posted - 2009.03.16 05:24:00 - [22] Edited by: Zhilia Mann on 16/03/2009 05:24:43 Originally by: Illayne Thank you all for the great info so far. Any suggestions for a reasonably priced ishkur fitting for pvp? What is the biggest drone type that can fit in it by the way? Fully skilled, you could fit 2 sentries/heavies, but you could only use one at a time due to bandwidth restrictions. Gone are the glory days of the 5 medium drone Ishkur. In practical terms, you would always be using 5 light drones and have a number of spares equal to your AF skill.
mishkof Caldari Dirty Denizens	Posted - 2009.03.16 05:26:00 - [23] I recomend the T1 cruiser for your race you are most confortable with, then interceptors for the first six-twelve months you PVP.
ronasds	Posted - 2009.03.16 05:53:00 - [24] I would not recommend any t2 cruiser for a young pilot simply because they are too expensive to lose, can't be insured, for pvp learning purposes. They will most likely not know how to use their ships to the fullest, not simply because they lack the skills to fit certain modules, but also due to the fact that they lack combat experience. Just fly t1 cruisers until you get t2 medium stuff, and jump into a BC.
Renarla	Posted - 2009.03.16 05:57:00 - [25] Originally by: Zhilia Mann Edited by: Zhilia Mann on 16/03/2009 05:24:43 Originally by: Illayne Thank you all for the great info so far. Any suggestions for a reasonably priced ishkur fitting for pvp? What is the biggest drone type that can fit in it by the way? Fully skilled, you could fit 2 sentries/heavies, but you could only use one at a time due to bandwidth restrictions. Gone are the glory days of the 5 medium drone Ishkur. In practical terms, you would always be using 5 light drones and have a number of spares equal to your AF skill. Yup. Ishkur fit: 3x Ion II (Faction Antimatter) Small Nos Named AB Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler (Best named, better than T2 and cheaper.) Small Cap Booster II (Cap Boost 100) Small Armor Repper II Damage Control II Armor Explosive Hardener II 5x Hobgoblin II 4x Hobgoblin II / Warrior II spares
Orakkus Minmatar m3 Corp BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.03.16 06:10:00 - [26] Originally by: Illayne I am starting to look into training for t2 frigates/cruisers for PvP, what kind of ships are highly recommended and are in high demand for a 0.0/small gang warfare? This is for pilots that are still less than a year old in terms of combat skill point training. Gallente and Minmatar ship skills related preferably. Hmm.. well, if its like most gangs, then everyone wants to be on the killmail. So, best bet would be for them to develop the appreciation for those functions in a gang that might not put them on said killmail. However, at one year, the variety of skills could definately be there.. but if you want consistancy, this is the order I would place them in levels of importance. 1. Covert Ops - Critical for any serious gang. Especially very important now that probing has completely changed. (Minmatar - Cheetah, Gallente - Helios) 2. Interceptors - Truthfully, almost as critical as a Covert Ops, especially if you need to snag skillful pilots. A squad of these can really mess up a fleet's day, especially if they are trying to get away. (Minmatar - Claw, Stilleto, Gallente - Ares, Taranis) 3. Assault Frigates - Until Quantum Rise, they were pretty much a waste of iskies. Now, they are a premier pirate ship that is fast, has great locking speed, and can put dps on target. There is a reason they doubled in price after Quantum Rise. (Minmatar - Wolf, Jaguar, Gallente - Enyo, Ishkur) 4. Electronic Attack Frigates - These are good to have in the small T2 Frigate fleets, however, they are best used as sort of a "try before you buy" E-war ship. That way you can decide if you have the real skill or desire to learn how to use Recon Cruisers. The T2 cruisers on the other hand I think require alot more.. understanding because the best T2 Minmatar cruiser class to try for, would not necessarily be the best T2 Amarr cruiser class to try for. I only do diplomancy because I haven't found you.. yet.
Easley Thames The Maverick Navy PuPPet MasTers	Posted - 2009.03.16 06:28:00 - [27] Without knowing your exact skills, I'd go with the following list of Gal/Mini ships for a small gang. To fly them well get the appropriate weapon & support skills up to the point where you can fit T2. Best T1 Cruiser Options: Rupture (train for t2 autos) Vexor (train for t2 drones, use a mixed batch totaling 75m3 of bandwidth) Thorax (train for t2 blasters + ecm drones) Easiest T2 Training: Wolf (train t2 autos) Jaguar (train t2 autos) Enyo (train t2 blasters) Slightly More SP: Taranis (all nav stills 4 or 5, t2 hybrids) Ishkur (train for t2 light drones, t2 hybrids) Stiletto (all nav skills 4 or 5) Hyena Most useful small gang T2 Cruisers (Gal / Matar): Ishtar Rapier Vaga Arazu Scimitar
UMEE Tactical Initiative	Posted - 2009.03.16 06:30:00 - [28] Originally by: Illayne Thank you all for the great info so far. Any suggestions for a reasonably priced ishkur fitting for pvp? What is the biggest drone type that can fit in it by the way? many ishkur threads out there, so have a look (use Eve Search, google it). main things for you to understand: - Ishkur, and other AF's, and not really dps platforms in pvp; they are "heavy tacklers" - in pve, you'll want to setup for maximum dps, and ishkur is best for this; you will be able to do L2/L3 missions with ease, and melt through 0.0 rats (given T2 drones and guns) - to be really effective with an AF, you'll need at least a few months of skilling up and lots of frigate pvp experience; T2 fitted ishkurs cost 30-35mill, and losing them sux even for veterans. keep your ishkur in pve for a while, and join a good pvp corp (or faction warfare) to get some training
UMEE Tactical Initiative	Posted - 2009.03.16 06:31:00 - [29] Originally by: Easley Thames Without knowing your exact skills, I'd go with the following list of Gal/Mini ships for a small gang. To fly them well get the appropriate weapon & support skills up to the point where you can fit T2. Best T1 Cruiser Options: Rupture (train for t2 autos) Vexor (train for t2 drones, use a mixed batch totaling 75m3 of bandwidth) Thorax (train for t2 blasters + ecm drones) Easiest T2 Training: Wolf (train t2 autos) Jaguar (train t2 autos) Enyo (train t2 blasters) Slightly More SP: Taranis (all nav stills 4 or 5, t2 hybrids) Ishkur (train for t2 light drones, t2 hybrids) Stiletto (all nav skills 4 or 5) Hyena Most useful small gang T2 Cruisers (Gal / Matar): Ishtar Rapier Vaga Arazu Scimitar im not implying that im a big deal or anything, but i totally approve of what he said.
Ig Neus	Posted - 2009.03.16 06:45:00 - [30] Ishkur can be fit as a Heavy tackler (MWD, long range disruptor, probably a cap booster and perhaps rails instead of Blasters) or a close range DPS Frigate (AB, Web, scrambler). Generally for most gangs you want to fly as a tackler, using an AF for DPS is a bit stupid when a T1 Cruiser does more and tanks more when webbed / scrambled. If you do some soloing (doubt it in 0.0 with an Ishkur) or need to be faster/more agile or anything feel free to fit it with AB and Blasters. It generally has lots of success. I think the best way to train generally is AFs (easier to train for), followed by Interceptors. At that point find out what you like or what you "need" to fly for your gang and train for it.



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