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Everything gets nerfed. so train for....

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Ch1pmunk	Posted - 2009.03.16 17:19:00 - [1] The way i see it, everything gets rebalanced eventually. so i train for everything. But, since amar was the worst for the last year i have been training for that lol. With this new patch,i am wondering..... Which race is the newest underdog? With the last few moths of patches and more patches, i have been focusing on core skills and tanking skills.... But now i want to know who the current 'best' ship race is, and who is the 'worst' few are training minmatar (the people ive talked to are all sticking with calldari or galente drone shipsat the moment lol) Are they the underdog? Just wonderin'
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.16 17:27:00 - [2] Minmatar is the "underdog", or at least they were 8 months ago. I haven't been around since then, but I heard not much has changed. They haven't seen a boost in a couple of years, so I wouldn't be hopeful. For a more conservative approach, train gallente. They tend to fluxuate on the totem pole but never dip too far down. They also allow an easy jump to either caldari (hybrid skills) or amarr (gunnery/armor skills) if need be. I also don't see amarr being nerfed soon. Regardless of their OP/UP status, they will always be great gang ships, and they're now also (some of) the best snipers.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.03.16 17:45:00 - [3] Train FOTM. There are no plans (at least none they have released) to significantly change overall ship balance, so you will have plenty of time to enjoy your FOTM ships before they (possibly) get nerfed. Though if you want an order: Amarr = Caldari >>> Minmatar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gallente Amarr and Caldari have top-tier ships in the full range of classes, Minmatar have some good ships balanced out by massive holes (battleships, capitals), Gallente really only have the Ishkur and Dominix. -----------
Holy Lowlander Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.03.16 17:54:00 - [4] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Train FOTM. There are no plans (at least none they have released) to significantly change overall ship balance, so you will have plenty of time to enjoy your FOTM ships before they (possibly) get nerfed. Though if you want an order: Amarr = Caldari >>> Minmatar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gallente Amarr and Caldari have top-tier ships in the full range of classes, Minmatar have some good ships balanced out by massive holes (battleships, capitals), Gallente really only have the Ishkur and Dominix. the mega makes up a decent sniper, an ishtar with sentries can be prety damn deadly if you know how to fly them. Taranis is prety cool , if you can get your mega close enough (station camping or something) you'll be wreaking havoc. mimmatar just have sucky bs , altough they have some of the best ships ingame , needs alot of skills tough. caldari have the silly passive tanks and ecm .. but thats about it. Missles are meh.... amarr have lasers and buffer tanks. Lasers are prety decent guns , very decent. As you can damage alot at range. But blasters still outclass them if you can get close enough. so putting gallente 2 miles away from the other tree races is just over reacting lol.
Juliette DuBois	Posted - 2009.03.16 17:56:00 - [5] Gallente ain¦t quite THAT bad, Taranis/Ishtar/Moros are good ships too. T2 lineup is mostly just bland or nerfed (deimos = expensive coffin, Arazu/Lachesis better than before but damps remain fairly weak for most situations).
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.03.16 18:00:00 - [6] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 16/03/2009 18:00:40 Originally by: Holy Lowlander the mega makes up a decent sniper, an ishtar with sentries can be prety damn deadly if you know how to fly them. Taranis is prety cool , if you can get your mega close enough (station camping or something) you'll be wreaking havoc. The Mega is only decent in the sense that it's better than nothing (and hey, better than a Minmatar ship!). The Rokh and Apoc completely dominate it in the sniper role. The Ishtar is highly overrated. Unless you use BB-size drones with all of their tracking problems, you're out-damaged by the other HACs by a huge margin. And thanks to the ability of drone ships to fit smaller weapons as well, the Ishtar suffers a lot more competition from the Dominix than any other HAC/battleship pair. Sure, you can still score killmails with it, but it's a pretty clear second-tier ship. Quote: caldari have the silly passive tanks and ecm .. but thats about it. Missles are meh.... Learn to fit your Caldari ships properly. As a hint: shield buffer + 3x damage mods = long range, nice damage, good tank. In sufficiently large gangs (as few as 2-3 people for some ships), Caldari ships are the correct choice for every role. Quote: amarr have lasers and buffer tanks. Lasers are prety decent guns , very decent. As you can damage alot at range. But blasters still outclass them if you can get close enough. Sure, IF you get close, and IF you do it fast enough that the laser ship hasn't done so much damage that your entire dps "advantage" is wasted catching up to it. In gang fights, lasers win by far due to travel time for the blaster ship. In solo/small-gang situations, lasers win due to the ability to fight from outside web range, and therefore more easily disengage when trouble shows up. -----------
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.16 18:08:00 - [7] If I had to guess, Gallente would be next in line for a boost. Even though Minmatar has been in the crapper for ages. Amarr is a safe choice.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.03.16 18:11:00 - [8] Originally by: AstroPhobic If I had to guess, Gallente would be next in line for a boost. Even though Minmatar has been in the crapper for ages. Amarr is a safe choice. When have minmatar ever been boosted? Agreeing that Gallante are next in line. Training Sentry Drones V so Merin can tell me I'm dumb
VaderDSL Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.16 18:14:00 - [9] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: AstroPhobic If I had to guess, Gallente would be next in line for a boost. Even though Minmatar has been in the crapper for ages. Amarr is a safe choice. When have minmatar ever been boosted? Agreeing that Gallante are next in line. Training Sentry Drones V so Merin can tell me I'm dumb When they had their cap use removed from their primary weapons system, capless weapons are hte only buff they need seeing as it i such a huge advantage .... sarcasm
Electric Universe Minmatar The Choir	Posted - 2009.03.16 18:22:00 - [10] Edited by: Electric Universe on 16/03/2009 18:25:27 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: AstroPhobic If I had to guess, Gallente would be next in line for a boost. Even though Minmatar has been in the crapper for ages. Amarr is a safe choice. When have minmatar ever been boosted? Agreeing that Gallante are next in line. Training Sentry Drones V so Merin can tell me I'm dumb Why even think about Boosing Gallente?. Because as things are now, you have to boost all 3 (Minmatar, Gallente and Caldari) if you boost one of them. Minmatar, Gallente and Caldari are now very balanced. And it's not the races or the ships who are the problem, in fact there is no problems with any ships or weapons. The only thing i see is that Lasers have more range and ok DPS than the other weapon systems. And then all of the FOTM players scream that boohoo, Blasters need to be boosted to be more like Lasers. But sigh, they don't think for even a second before they say that. Simply because if you boost Gallente, then what about Minmatar and Caldari?. Maybe we should just say, hmmm because Lasers aren't so important that we have to boost 3 other weapon systems so they can be like Lasers, then why not nerf Lasers a little bit, so Lasers get more like the 3 other weapon systems?. Because 3 other weapon systems are absolutely way way way more important than just only Lasers. Ofc, Lasers still have to have a range advantage because Amarr BS'es are not ships that is famous to use MWD's. To be totally honest, it's the T2 ammo that need to be fixed. If they get fixed, then i think it will make way better results than we have now.

Liang Nuren No Salvation Blackguard Coalition	Posted - 2009.03.16 18:24:00 - [11] Originally by: Malcanis When have minmatar ever been boosted? Agreeing that Gallante are next in line. Training Sentry Drones V so Merin can tell me I'm dumb Haha, I have Sentries 5. I don't call it dumb. :P -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Solid Prefekt Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.03.16 18:25:00 - [12] IMHO, When you look at the full range of ships I would say Amarr and Caldari are clearly the best. Minmatar and Gallente are tied as having a mix of bad and good ships. None of the races completely suck though as they all have something going for them.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.16 18:27:00 - [13] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: AstroPhobic If I had to guess, Gallente would be next in line for a boost. Even though Minmatar has been in the crapper for ages. Amarr is a safe choice. When have minmatar ever been boosted? Agreeing that Gallante are next in line. Training Sentry Drones V so Merin can tell me I'm dumb The only time I remember offhand is when CCP released Dreadnaughts. I mean HACs. I mean the vagabond. ...before it was nerfed.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.03.16 18:31:00 - [14] The problem is not the guns. There are two far more important things wrong with game balance: 1) The web nerf that wrecked blaster tracking. 2) The metagame that favors gangs over solo. Not only do blasters suck in gangs, but even as a solo pilot, blasters suck. When everyone else is flying around in gangs, a solo pilot needs the ability to disengage and warp out when local starts to spike, and good luck doing that when you're deep in web and scram range. The second is by far the more important, fix the metagame and encourage more solo PvP, and blasters will be a much better option. -----------
Electric Universe Minmatar The Choir	Posted - 2009.03.16 18:39:00 - [15] Edited by: Electric Universe on 16/03/2009 18:42:08 Saying Blasters sucks is like saying your self sucks tbfh. Yeah Blasters sucks because they are totally different than Pulses, yeah, that's kinda funny. Every weapons are totally different than other weapons. And the different weapons are good and have advantages in it's own way. I will never, and i mean it when i say it, I WILL NEVER see any of the 4 weapon systems to be like Lasers for example. I want Pulses, Blasters, Autocannons and Torps to be good in it's own ways. And to have different advantages. If every of the weapons will be the same, then what's the reason to have 4 different weapon systems in EVE?. There are 4 weapon systems here simply because every weapons is totally different and good in it's own ways. That's how it is.
Lindsay Logan	Posted - 2009.03.16 18:52:00 - [16] Originally by: Electric Universe Edited by: Electric Universe on 16/03/2009 18:42:08 Saying Blasters sucks is like saying your self sucks tbfh. Yeah Blasters sucks because they are totally different than Pulses, yeah, that's kinda funny. Every weapons are totally different than other weapons. And the different weapons are good and have advantages in it's own way. I will never, and i mean it when i say it, I WILL NEVER see any of the 4 weapon systems to be like Lasers for example. I want Pulses, Blasters, Autocannons and Torps to be good in it's own ways. And to have different advantages. If every of the weapons will be the same, then what's the reason to have 4 different weapon systems in EVE?. There are 4 weapon systems here simply because every weapons is totally different and good in it's own ways. That's how it is. While blasters is good at killing cloe range, they lack the dps to make up for the short range. There simply exist other systems and ships that outperfom them. Lasers is the same as the have been for a long time, they are good now since the metagame changed. Projectiles got not a terrific dps, but the got range (falloff) advantage over blasters. Dictating range is now hard for blaster ships, they need a scram + 2 web to really hold their targets in place for teh guns to work effectively, and in that instance the lasers or projectiles is more effective sinve they do not need the same support. Blasters need a little bit of love and they should have gotten it when CCP killed the webs that gallente relied on so much, or added more webbifier bonuses to certin gallente ships.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.16 18:56:00 - [17] Originally by: Lindsay Logan Projectiles got not a terrific dps, but the got range (falloff) advantage over blasters. Don't make me slap you. Falloff isn't range.
Electric Universe Minmatar The Choir	Posted - 2009.03.16 19:03:00 - [18] Edited by: Electric Universe on 16/03/2009 19:03:39 Originally by: Lindsay Logan While blasters is good at killing cloe range, they lack the dps to make up for the short range. There simply exist other systems and ships that outperfom them. So when the Neutrons does 16.7% more DPS than Pulses does, gun stats wise before any bonuses, and when you take the omni tank into here, then the Blasters does around 28-30% more DPS than Pulses does in web range. So you want that any higher?. Maybe we should take it up to 50%. Doesn't that sound balanced?. I think 28-30% more DPS in web range is enough tbh.
Smokeyblood	Posted - 2009.03.16 19:03:00 - [19] AC's are far better off then Blasters, anyone who thinks AC's are that bad obviously is playing a different game. The tempest is really the only bad minnie ship, everything else is great for what it does, however with gallente the same can't be said as they only have a couple ships even worth flying over other races.
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2009.03.16 19:14:00 - [20] There is not a single one bad Gallente ship. On the other hand, there is ALOT of bad Gallente ship pilots. Merin being the first.

AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.16 19:17:00 - [21] Originally by: Smokeyblood AC's are far better off then Blasters, anyone who thinks AC's are that bad obviously is playing a different game. The tempest is really the only bad minnie ship, everything else is great for what it does, however with gallente the same can't be said as they only have a couple ships even worth flying over other races. I'm going to let you take this statement back before I flame you for 4 pages.
Electric Universe Minmatar The Choir	Posted - 2009.03.16 19:30:00 - [22] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Smokeyblood AC's are far better off then Blasters, anyone who thinks AC's are that bad obviously is playing a different game. The tempest is really the only bad minnie ship, everything else is great for what it does, however with gallente the same can't be said as they only have a couple ships even worth flying over other races. I'm going to let you take this statement back before I flame you for 4 pages. Yup, AC's and Blasters are now very balanced to each others. So messing with them now is a bad idea.
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2009.03.16 19:36:00 - [23] Originally by: Electric Universe Yup, AC's and Blasters are now very balanced to each others. So messing with them now is a bad idea. Nah the problem is pulses being too good ... Even when Amarr wants to shoot far they use pulses over beams half of the time ... Says alot ...
Lindsay Logan	Posted - 2009.03.16 19:37:00 - [24] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Lindsay Logan Projectiles got not a terrific dps, but the got range (falloff) advantage over blasters. Don't make me slap you. Falloff isn't range. Well, not optimal range, but effective rang that you can hit. :)
Cohkka Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2009.03.16 19:44:00 - [25] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: AstroPhobic If I had to guess, Gallente would be next in line for a boost. Even though Minmatar has been in the crapper for ages. Amarr is a safe choice. When have minmatar ever been boosted? Agreeing that Gallante are next in line. Training Sentry Drones V so Merin can tell me I'm dumb Minmatar were boosted back in 2005 with a 20% damage boost across the board. I enjoyed it for a few months before I took a break. Tempest was the best fleetship (whenever we had a BS roaming gang 3-4 Tempest used to be on top of the killmail, instapopping everything). Over all Minmatar was the best race, imo, although that maybe because of my affiliation. They had the best Ceptor, propably the best Af for it's role, best Cruiser/HACs, best and most versitale BS with the Tempest... although people started to fly multispec/NOS Domis as well at that time. But I guess the HP/Cap buff and the whole passive tanking **** ruined it for them... Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5...
Guillame Herschel Gallente Buffalo Soldiers	Posted - 2009.03.16 19:54:00 - [26] Originally by: Malcanis When have minmatar ever been boosted? T2 Overdrives, then Polycarbs and Aux Thrusters. It was too much, so they got nerfed. Now all we have are falloff rigs. *-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then* --**
Jofridur	Posted - 2009.03.16 19:58:00 - [27] Give AC more falloff. Give Blasters more tracking. Nerf laser tracking (pulse and beams.) Ease a little back on the missile "nerf". ( I honestly don't know much about the state of missiles, but people seem to whine so why not.) I think eve has relatively good balance, but I wish they would change/boost/nerf some things like the projectiles, Failpest, Diemost and force-recons in general. Lets not forget the Naglfail, give it 4/4 hardpoints or something! The underdogs are the fail ships, not the races in general IMHO.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.16 20:04:00 - [28] Edited by: AstroPhobic on 16/03/2009 20:04:10 Originally by: Electric Universe Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Smokeyblood AC's are far better off then Blasters, anyone who thinks AC's are that bad obviously is playing a different game. The tempest is really the only bad minnie ship, everything else is great for what it does, however with gallente the same can't be said as they only have a couple ships even worth flying over other races. I'm going to let you take this statement back before I flame you for 4 pages. Yup, AC's and Blasters are now very balanced to each others. So messing with them now is a bad idea. Glad you reconsidered. also, just to add to your list of "only bad minnie ships" Vargur, Naglfar, Muninn, Bellicose, Claw... should I go on? That's disregarding the obliteration of the vaga, stabber, and both recons due to web/speed nerfs...
Grek Forto Malevolent Intentions Dark Solar Empire	Posted - 2009.03.16 20:08:00 - [29] A tip, train what you think looks cool and work well for you. Not what's FOTM.
Electric Universe Minmatar The Choir	Posted - 2009.03.16 20:57:00 - [30] Edited by: Electric Universe on 16/03/2009 20:58:14 Originally by: AstroPhobic also, just to add to your list of "only bad minnie ships" Vargur, Naglfar, Muninn, Bellicose, Claw... should I go on? That's disregarding the obliteration of the vaga, stabber, and both recons due to web/speed nerfs... Those ships is only bad if the player is bad. Or actually, everyone can make any ships to be good if they want. And i do not go after the ships that is the best or the ships that have the best stats. I'll use the ship that is fun to use and that are working very good for me and my play style.



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