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UMEE
Tactical Initiative
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Posted - 2009.03.16 21:05:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Train FOTM. There are no plans (at least none they have released) to significantly change overall ship balance, so you will have plenty of time to enjoy your FOTM ships before they (possibly) get nerfed.
Though if you want an order:
Amarr = Caldari >>> Minmatar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gallente
Amarr and Caldari have top-tier ships in the full range of classes, Minmatar have some good ships balanced out by massive holes (battleships, capitals), Gallente really only have the Ishkur and Dominix.
ignore our local troll here. amarr DO NOT EQUAL caldari, except maybe in large fleet battles. gall is way up there if u like the drone boats.
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Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group Veni Vidi Vici
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Posted - 2009.03.16 21:06:00 -
[32]
Can we talk about the real problem? -- Falcons. Discuss.
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UMEE
Tactical Initiative
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Posted - 2009.03.16 21:08:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Smokeyblood AC's are far better off then Blasters, anyone who thinks AC's are that bad obviously is playing a different game.
The tempest is really the only bad minnie ship, everything else is great for what it does, however with gallente the same can't be said as they only have a couple ships even worth flying over other races.
no offense, but wth do you know? you were just asking for advice about this in the other thread. and you seem to be signed up to merin's fascist newsletter, which significantly decreases your credibility.
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Mr Ignitious
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.16 21:42:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Mr Ignitious on 16/03/2009 21:42:36
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Train FOTM. There are no plans (at least none they have released) to significantly change overall ship balance, so you will have plenty of time to enjoy your FOTM ships before they (possibly) get nerfed.
Though if you want an order:
Amarr = Caldari >>> Minmatar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gallente
Amarr and Caldari have top-tier ships in the full range of classes, Minmatar have some good ships balanced out by massive holes (battleships, capitals), Gallente really only have the Ishkur and Dominix.
qft and i'm not kidding. I might take away a few of the ">" between minmitar and gallente, but for the most part its true. Gallente has nothing (cept domi and ishkur) that other races can't match and outperform for any given role.
Result though is gallente can try to 2nd-3rd rate mimic everything. Still not exciting to think about
edit: accidentally hit enter and posted before i was done
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.16 21:49:00 -
[35]
Of course if you only want to fly the best possible ship, then just hunt for FOTM.
If you want a ship you like to fly and doesnt suck, the megathron for example is also fine (assuming you like to fly it). Carry null ammo and you will have sufficient range in 95% of the short range engagements. And otherwise you can always drop sentry drones.
Tracking? Merin himself said that these days it is mainly gangs, so your gangmates will happily web and paint the primary.
---------------------------------------------
Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
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Ch1pmunk
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Posted - 2009.03.17 15:38:00 -
[36]
so... im hearing that its amar and (surprisingly) caldari that are still the top dogs lol.
so i guess i will train blasters and see what happens in 6 months.
and drones are always good. for any race it seems. and projectile weapons seem to work on any ship u may be havin problems with getting cap stable. so maybe i will get those up to t2 as well lol.
26 mil sp so far and many nerfs later.... this game is still cool. its the trolls and whines that ruin it for the rest.
Nice one trying to turn this into a blaster or/and falcon whine. lol
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2009.03.17 16:44:00 -
[37]
Currently things are pretty balanced, and there is no incoming major game change. Train what you want.
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Destovel
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Posted - 2009.03.18 12:40:00 -
[38]
Originally by: AstroPhobic Edited by: AstroPhobic on 16/03/2009 20:04:10
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Smokeyblood AC's are far better off then Blasters, anyone who thinks AC's are that bad obviously is playing a different game.
The tempest is really the only bad minnie ship, everything else is great for what it does, however with gallente the same can't be said as they only have a couple ships even worth flying over other races.
I'm going to let you take this statement back before I flame you for 4 pages.
Yup, AC's and Blasters are now very balanced to each others. So messing with them now is a bad idea.
Glad you reconsidered.
also, just to add to your list of "only bad minnie ships"
Vargur, Naglfar, Muninn, Bellicose, Claw... should I go on? That's disregarding the obliteration of the vaga, stabber, and both recons due to web/speed nerfs...
jesus ****ing christ. just stop playing minmatar if you dont like the race, get a plastic operation or something and pretend to change race. each race has its ups and downs and are generally equal. some ships have to be looked at true... but i believe everybody knows that.
minmatar battleships are bad because of the turrets on them. large projectiles have problems true, but that doesnt stop me from flying the maelstrom.
oh and one more thing... why do you think you are able to train ships from another race? you can fly a crow inty, rifter frig, caracal hac, sleipnir comm ship and a navy raven for missions. you dont have to fly specific race ships.
so shut up please, im tired of all the minmatar whine
no offence
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari Druuge Crimson Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.18 12:56:00 -
[39]
Hopefully the Amarr lobby will be able to keep the nerfbat at bay long enough for me to finish respecing for a zealot pwnmobile. Medium Pulse Lasers shooting out to 50km is just too cool to pass up. Even if it is a glass cannon fit. |
AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:01:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Destovel
jesus ****ing christ. just stop playing minmatar if you dont like the race, get a plastic operation or something and pretend to change race.
I've trained up t2 megapulse and I couldn't be happier. That doesn't help out the fact that I have many more SP invested in minmatar - a race whose ideology I enjoy, but usefulness has been ever decreasing. Minmatar is underpowered, fullstop. I'm not really bothered that you think it's fine, because you aren't the one who balances the races.
Quote:
each race has its ups and downs and are generally equal. some ships have to be looked at true... but i believe everybody knows that.
Go forth an enlighten thyself
Quote:
minmatar battleships are bad because of the turrets on them. large projectiles have problems true, but that doesnt stop me from flying the maelstrom.
Couldn't agree more (The tempest could use slot adjustment due to midslot nerfs). The typhoon and maelstrom can both be good ships, true, but they're both easily outshined by the raven and baddon for each respective role. A projectile fix would put them closer in line.
Quote:
oh and one more thing... why do you think you are able to train ships from another race? you can fly a crow inty, rifter frig, caracal hac, sleipnir comm ship and a navy raven for missions. you dont have to fly specific race ships.
I enjoy flying taranii, myrmidons, abaddons, zealots, crusaders... I'm not exactly new around the block.
Quote:
so shut up please, im tired of all the minmatar whine
no offence
I'll keep doing what I do best, no offence. |
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Holy Lowlander
Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:22:00 -
[41]
I still don't get whats the big problem with blasters.
if you take a look at torps for instance ... you need more webs and even a target painter to be effective with those.
and if you can't get in range for your blasters .. .then I guess your doing it wrong :S... Because its not that hard to just remain in blaster range ... just pulse your mwd if you want to stay close and no problems there .... Only cap but then you fit a cap booster instead of 2 webs and a scram ....
thoraxes and enyos are still very deadly blaster platforms in the right hands.
and the only problem I see with pulse lasers is in the large pulse lasers , reducing the range on megapulse IIs with scorch from 45 km to 35-40 km and adding the lost kms to falloff should fix the 'problem'.
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arbiter reformed
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:22:00 -
[42]
noooooo dont touch the tempest you fool nooooooo. 8/5/6 is awesome its the best solo bs there is atm, and a maelstrom would **** an abba 1v1, minmitar are great, and . fun! large autos neeed a small boost large arties need a massive one,
just buy a fleet pest and see the light, utility slots ftw
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arbiter reformed
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:25:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Holy Lowlander I still don't get whats the big problem with blasters.
if you take a look at torps for instance ... you need more webs and even a target painter to be effective with those.
and if you can't get in range for your blasters .. .then I guess your doing it wrong :S... Because its not that hard to just remain in blaster range ... just pulse your mwd if you want to stay close and no problems there .... Only cap but then you fit a cap booster instead of 2 webs and a scram ....
thoraxes and enyos are still very deadly blaster platforms in the right hands.
and the only problem I see with pulse lasers is in the large pulse lasers , reducing the range on megapulse IIs with scorch from 45 km to 35-40 km and adding the lost kms to falloff should fix the 'problem'.
well as for torps a cnr does 1200 dps at 60 km to a bs.... just put a rapier in your gang if your that worried but you dont need it, a warp disruyptor 2 is usually enough on a raven ffs
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Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:32:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Trevor Warps There is not a single one bad Gallente ship.
On the other hand, there is ALOT of bad Gallente ship pilots.
Merin being the first.
Trevor knows the truth , listen to him. Matar ships are awesome btw , i would say they are even better than amarr only the zealot and apoc are too good with their optimal bonuses+ high dps.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:32:00 -
[45]
Edited by: AstroPhobic on 18/03/2009 14:32:34
Originally by: arbiter reformed noooooo dont touch the tempest you fool nooooooo. 8/5/6 is awesome its the best solo bs there is atm, and a maelstrom would **** an abba 1v1, minmitar are great, and . fun! large autos neeed a small boost large arties need a massive one,
just buy a fleet pest and see the light, utility slots ftw
This isn't 2005, sorry.
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Originally by: Trevor Warps There is not a single one bad Gallente ship.
On the other hand, there is ALOT of bad Gallente ship pilots.
Merin being the first.
Trevor knows the truth , listen to him. Matar ships are awesome btw , i would say they are even better than amarr only the zealot and apoc are too good with their optimal bonuses+ high dps.
Troll somewhere else.
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Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:41:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Naomi Knight on 18/03/2009 14:41:23 Astro it is strange to me, that if you are so old pvper as you say,then why werent you able to learn the basics of pvp?
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arbiter reformed
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:47:00 -
[47]
tbh with all the agility bufs, and web nerfs having dual webs nuets scams and eccm all on one ship is a godsend
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nakKEDK
Gallente tr0pa de elite Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:49:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Gallente really only have the Ishkur and Dominix.
i laughed out loud, very loud
k
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:50:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Naomi Knight Edited by: Naomi Knight on 18/03/2009 14:41:23 Astro it is strange to me, that if you are so old pvper as you say,then why werent you able to learn the basics of pvp?
If you're going to flame, at least make some sense.
Anyway, post your API key so we can see how many minmatar ships you can fly.
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Sahga7
Caldari Duty.
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:52:00 -
[50]
This topic made me realize that this game is pretty well balanced. Who wins in a pvp fight is often not decided by what race they are but by their skills (and what modules are fitted because of that), how much they are willing to risk and who they bring.
I love that! To refer to another game (you know who), on their forums all you read is unbalanced this, buff that, nerf them overpower us.
Not that im saying the balance is perfect in Eve, but its not the thing that defines it.
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arbiter reformed
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.03.18 15:10:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Sahga7 This topic made me realize that this game is pretty well balanced. Who wins in a pvp fight is often not decided by what race they are but by their skills (and what modules are fitted because of that), how much they are willing to risk and who they bring.
I love that! To refer to another game (you know who), on their forums all you read is unbalanced this, buff that, nerf them overpower us.
Not that im saying the balance is perfect in Eve, but its not the thing that defines it.
at the same time though its fun to have the david vs golith effect
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Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.03.18 15:12:00 -
[52]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Naomi Knight Edited by: Naomi Knight on 18/03/2009 14:41:23 Astro it is strange to me, that if you are so old pvper as you say,then why werent you able to learn the basics of pvp?
If you're going to flame, at least make some sense.
Anyway, post your API key so we can see how many minmatar ships you can fly.
I can fly both the vargur and the muninn both ships are fine for their inteded role.
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Sahga7
Caldari Duty.
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Posted - 2009.03.18 15:21:00 -
[53]
Originally by: arbiter reformed
Originally by: Sahga7 This topic made me realize that this game is pretty well balanced. Who wins in a pvp fight is often not decided by what race they are but by their skills (and what modules are fitted because of that), how much they are willing to risk and who they bring.
I love that! To refer to another game (you know who), on their forums all you read is unbalanced this, buff that, nerf them overpower us.
Not that im saying the balance is perfect in Eve, but its not the thing that defines it.
at the same time though its fun to have the david vs golith effect
True, I love taking on camping BS's with a (small) gang of frig hull ships.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.18 15:27:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Naomi Knight Edited by: Naomi Knight on 18/03/2009 14:41:23 Astro it is strange to me, that if you are so old pvper as you say,then why werent you able to learn the basics of pvp?
If you're going to flame, at least make some sense.
Anyway, post your API key so we can see how many minmatar ships you can fly.
I can fly both the vargur and the muninn both ships are fine for their inteded role.
API key.
Also, the vargur is clearly the weakest marauder. CLEARLY. A decent pilot can make any ship "fine". I can make a bellicose fit and be "fine". It's still an awful ship.
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Mysteriax
Scoopex
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Posted - 2009.03.19 17:50:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Mysteriax on 19/03/2009 17:51:35
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Naomi Knight Edited by: Naomi Knight on 18/03/2009 14:41:23 Astro it is strange to me, that if you are so old pvper as you say,then why werent you able to learn the basics of pvp?
If you're going to flame, at least make some sense.
Anyway, post your API key so we can see how many minmatar ships you can fly.
I can fly both the vargur and the muninn both ships are fine for their inteded role.
Wait you actually said the muninn is fine? Did you really mean that? I mean you ever checked out the other sniper Hacs? Did you never see the Cane can do its job aswell and has better insurance?
More ontopic atm Amarr is top Caldari clearly second (mostly due to ECM). Minmatar and Gallente are at the bottom. As a minmatar pilot i will comment why we are on the bottom.
1 Worst snipers. In large scale warfare in 0.0 Sniper BS are very important. I have heard allot of FCs mention they'd rather not take a pest if they can avoid it. Reasons very poor range, bad DPS alpha less important clip size. 2 Worst dreads, Nag is the worst dread i think everyone agrees on that. 3 Bad carrier stats, the nid has worse stats then any other carrier and no range bonusses. 4 Speed nerf/web nerf Speed nerf hit minmatar hard our one godlike ship the vaga is now just so so at best and the rapier cant speed tank anymore and webs barely have any effect. 5 Bad short range BS, our only decent short range BS is a typhoon. The reason why its decent its because it doesnt use projectiles much. 6 Bad mission ships dont think i need to explain here 7 HP buff and passive tanking. Due to this the active tank bonusses on minmatar ships are nearly useless (mael for example) and since ships have more HP our alpha is less important 8 Utility nerfs and scripts. Scripts ruined minmatar since we usually have the worst basic starts we really needed a boost to both stats more then any other race. Also the nerf to most utility mods crippled allot of the minmatar fleet who used it the most. 9 Titan and mothership again in the cap segment minmatar is just a little bit worse then the rest. The devs know it the players know it and the devs promised there would be a cap overhaul the question is just when. 10 Falloff While everyone besides a normal thinking minmatar pilot thinks its good remember it does 39,5% damage I think at optimal + falloff not 50% like everyone thinks it has to do with hit quality
Now the few good points of minmatar 1 Rifter yeah its awesome. 2 AFs aint bad. 3 Broadsword insane passive tanks and does its work well. 4 We dont use blasters. 5 Typhoon. I got 25 mil SP only focussed on minmatar and specialized in BS mostly and still cant fly the thing well (I need to up my drone skills), but it has good potential, something to aim for.
Thats all Cruisers are kinda meh stabber is useless these days just use a rifter and the ruppy is only good if you cant fly T2 yet, Sleip isnt really that good anymore with speed nerf. Battlecruisers are kinda balanced allround. Inty's are meh. Noone uses destroyers much thrasher isnt bad for a dessie though. Rapier and vaga cant be considered good anymore and are just average at best.
Still I enjoy minmatar and I dont think we need major buffs but just some slight alterations. Scary thing now is I am training for Minmatar dreads so CCP please buff em soon.
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EFT Warrior
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Posted - 2009.03.19 19:35:00 -
[56]
The only real ship I'm confused about for Minmatar is the Typhoon: what is it's role? Diversity? Please, in an age with several tiers of ships, diversity and unpredictability take a back seat to a gang of specialized ships, where the Maelstrom outdamges it up close, the Tempest is a far better sniper, and to compete you have to train up 3 different weapon systems to be subpar compared to the rest of the races ships. Has anyone found a solid use for the typhoon that can't be filled by the other two tiers?
The only advantage I can see is it's cheap and might possibly outdo a Tempest in remote repping.
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