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Ch1pmunk
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Posted - 2009.03.16 17:19:00 -
[1]
The way i see it, everything gets rebalanced eventually. so i train for everything.
But, since amar was the worst for the last year i have been training for that lol.
With this new patch,i am wondering.....
Which race is the newest underdog?
With the last few moths of patches and more patches, i have been focusing on core skills and tanking skills....
But now i want to know who the current 'best' ship race is, and who is the 'worst'
few are training minmatar (the people ive talked to are all sticking with calldari or galente drone shipsat the moment lol) Are they the underdog?
Just wonderin'
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.16 17:27:00 -
[2]
Minmatar is the "underdog", or at least they were 8 months ago. I haven't been around since then, but I heard not much has changed. They haven't seen a boost in a couple of years, so I wouldn't be hopeful.
For a more conservative approach, train gallente. They tend to fluxuate on the totem pole but never dip too far down. They also allow an easy jump to either caldari (hybrid skills) or amarr (gunnery/armor skills) if need be.
I also don't see amarr being nerfed soon. Regardless of their OP/UP status, they will always be great gang ships, and they're now also (some of) the best snipers.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.16 17:45:00 -
[3]
Train FOTM. There are no plans (at least none they have released) to significantly change overall ship balance, so you will have plenty of time to enjoy your FOTM ships before they (possibly) get nerfed.
Though if you want an order:
Amarr = Caldari >>> Minmatar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gallente
Amarr and Caldari have top-tier ships in the full range of classes, Minmatar have some good ships balanced out by massive holes (battleships, capitals), Gallente really only have the Ishkur and Dominix.
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Holy Lowlander
Lone Star Joint Venture
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.03.16 17:54:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Train FOTM. There are no plans (at least none they have released) to significantly change overall ship balance, so you will have plenty of time to enjoy your FOTM ships before they (possibly) get nerfed.
Though if you want an order:
Amarr = Caldari >>> Minmatar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gallente
Amarr and Caldari have top-tier ships in the full range of classes, Minmatar have some good ships balanced out by massive holes (battleships, capitals), Gallente really only have the Ishkur and Dominix.
the mega makes up a decent sniper, an ishtar with sentries can be prety damn deadly if you know how to fly them. Taranis is prety cool , if you can get your mega close enough (station camping or something) you'll be wreaking havoc.
mimmatar just have sucky bs , altough they have some of the best ships ingame , needs alot of skills tough.
caldari have the silly passive tanks and ecm .. but thats about it. Missles are meh....
amarr have lasers and buffer tanks. Lasers are prety decent guns , very decent. As you can damage alot at range. But blasters still outclass them if you can get close enough.
so putting gallente 2 miles away from the other tree races is just over reacting lol.
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Juliette DuBois
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Posted - 2009.03.16 17:56:00 -
[5]
Gallente ainŠt quite THAT bad, Taranis/Ishtar/Moros are good ships too. T2 lineup is mostly just bland or nerfed (deimos = expensive coffin, Arazu/Lachesis better than before but damps remain fairly weak for most situations).
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.16 18:00:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 16/03/2009 18:00:40
Originally by: Holy Lowlander
the mega makes up a decent sniper, an ishtar with sentries can be prety damn deadly if you know how to fly them. Taranis is prety cool , if you can get your mega close enough (station camping or something) you'll be wreaking havoc.
The Mega is only decent in the sense that it's better than nothing (and hey, better than a Minmatar ship!). The Rokh and Apoc completely dominate it in the sniper role.
The Ishtar is highly overrated. Unless you use BB-size drones with all of their tracking problems, you're out-damaged by the other HACs by a huge margin. And thanks to the ability of drone ships to fit smaller weapons as well, the Ishtar suffers a lot more competition from the Dominix than any other HAC/battleship pair. Sure, you can still score killmails with it, but it's a pretty clear second-tier ship.
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caldari have the silly passive tanks and ecm .. but thats about it. Missles are meh....
Learn to fit your Caldari ships properly. As a hint: shield buffer + 3x damage mods = long range, nice damage, good tank. In sufficiently large gangs (as few as 2-3 people for some ships), Caldari ships are the correct choice for every role.
Quote:
amarr have lasers and buffer tanks. Lasers are prety decent guns , very decent. As you can damage alot at range. But blasters still outclass them if you can get close enough.
Sure, IF you get close, and IF you do it fast enough that the laser ship hasn't done so much damage that your entire dps "advantage" is wasted catching up to it.
In gang fights, lasers win by far due to travel time for the blaster ship. In solo/small-gang situations, lasers win due to the ability to fight from outside web range, and therefore more easily disengage when trouble shows up.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.16 18:08:00 -
[7]
If I had to guess, Gallente would be next in line for a boost. Even though Minmatar has been in the crapper for ages.
Amarr is a safe choice.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.16 18:11:00 -
[8]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
If I had to guess, Gallente would be next in line for a boost. Even though Minmatar has been in the crapper for ages.
Amarr is a safe choice.
When have minmatar ever been boosted?
Agreeing that Gallante are next in line. Training Sentry Drones V so Merin can tell me I'm dumb 
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VaderDSL
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.03.16 18:14:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: AstroPhobic
If I had to guess, Gallente would be next in line for a boost. Even though Minmatar has been in the crapper for ages.
Amarr is a safe choice.
When have minmatar ever been boosted?
Agreeing that Gallante are next in line. Training Sentry Drones V so Merin can tell me I'm dumb
When they had their cap use removed from their primary weapons system, capless weapons are hte only buff they need seeing as it i such a huge advantage .... sarcasm 
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.16 18:22:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 16/03/2009 18:25:27
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: AstroPhobic
If I had to guess, Gallente would be next in line for a boost. Even though Minmatar has been in the crapper for ages.
Amarr is a safe choice.
When have minmatar ever been boosted?
Agreeing that Gallante are next in line. Training Sentry Drones V so Merin can tell me I'm dumb
Why even think about Boosing Gallente?.
Because as things are now, you have to boost all 3 (Minmatar, Gallente and Caldari) if you boost one of them.
Minmatar, Gallente and Caldari are now very balanced.
And it's not the races or the ships who are the problem, in fact there is no problems with any ships or weapons.
The only thing i see is that Lasers have more range and ok DPS than the other weapon systems. And then all of the FOTM players scream that boohoo, Blasters need to be boosted to be more like Lasers.
But sigh, they don't think for even a second before they say that.
Simply because if you boost Gallente, then what about Minmatar and Caldari?.
Maybe we should just say, hmmm because Lasers aren't so important that we have to boost 3 other weapon systems so they can be like Lasers, then why not nerf Lasers a little bit, so Lasers get more like the 3 other weapon systems?. Because 3 other weapon systems are absolutely way way way more important than just only Lasers.
Ofc, Lasers still have to have a range advantage because Amarr BS'es are not ships that is famous to use MWD's.
To be totally honest, it's the T2 ammo that need to be fixed. If they get fixed, then i think it will make way better results than we have now.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.03.16 18:24:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Malcanis
When have minmatar ever been boosted?
Agreeing that Gallante are next in line. Training Sentry Drones V so Merin can tell me I'm dumb
Haha, I have Sentries 5. I don't call it dumb. :P
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Solid Prefekt
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.03.16 18:25:00 -
[12]
IMHO,
When you look at the full range of ships I would say Amarr and Caldari are clearly the best. Minmatar and Gallente are tied as having a mix of bad and good ships. None of the races completely suck though as they all have something going for them.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.16 18:27:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: AstroPhobic
If I had to guess, Gallente would be next in line for a boost. Even though Minmatar has been in the crapper for ages.
Amarr is a safe choice.
When have minmatar ever been boosted?
Agreeing that Gallante are next in line. Training Sentry Drones V so Merin can tell me I'm dumb
The only time I remember offhand is when CCP released Dreadnaughts.
I mean HACs.
I mean the vagabond.
...before it was nerfed.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.16 18:31:00 -
[14]
The problem is not the guns. There are two far more important things wrong with game balance:
1) The web nerf that wrecked blaster tracking.
2) The metagame that favors gangs over solo. Not only do blasters suck in gangs, but even as a solo pilot, blasters suck. When everyone else is flying around in gangs, a solo pilot needs the ability to disengage and warp out when local starts to spike, and good luck doing that when you're deep in web and scram range.
The second is by far the more important, fix the metagame and encourage more solo PvP, and blasters will be a much better option.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.16 18:39:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 16/03/2009 18:42:08
Saying Blasters sucks is like saying your self sucks tbfh.
Yeah Blasters sucks because they are totally different than Pulses, yeah, that's kinda funny.
Every weapons are totally different than other weapons. And the different weapons are good and have advantages in it's own way.
I will never, and i mean it when i say it, I WILL NEVER see any of the 4 weapon systems to be like Lasers for example. I want Pulses, Blasters, Autocannons and Torps to be good in it's own ways. And to have different advantages.
If every of the weapons will be the same, then what's the reason to have 4 different weapon systems in EVE?.
There are 4 weapon systems here simply because every weapons is totally different and good in it's own ways.
That's how it is.
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Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2009.03.16 18:52:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 16/03/2009 18:42:08
Saying Blasters sucks is like saying your self sucks tbfh.
Yeah Blasters sucks because they are totally different than Pulses, yeah, that's kinda funny.
Every weapons are totally different than other weapons. And the different weapons are good and have advantages in it's own way.
I will never, and i mean it when i say it, I WILL NEVER see any of the 4 weapon systems to be like Lasers for example. I want Pulses, Blasters, Autocannons and Torps to be good in it's own ways. And to have different advantages.
If every of the weapons will be the same, then what's the reason to have 4 different weapon systems in EVE?.
There are 4 weapon systems here simply because every weapons is totally different and good in it's own ways.
That's how it is.
While blasters is good at killing cloe range, they lack the dps to make up for the short range. There simply exist other systems and ships that outperfom them.
Lasers is the same as the have been for a long time, they are good now since the metagame changed.
Projectiles got not a terrific dps, but the got range (falloff) advantage over blasters.
Dictating range is now hard for blaster ships, they need a scram + 2 web to really hold their targets in place for teh guns to work effectively, and in that instance the lasers or projectiles is more effective sinve they do not need the same support.
Blasters need a little bit of love and they should have gotten it when CCP killed the webs that gallente relied on so much, or added more webbifier bonuses to certin gallente ships.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.16 18:56:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Lindsay Logan
Projectiles got not a terrific dps, but the got range (falloff) advantage over blasters.
Don't make me slap you. Falloff isn't range.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:03:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 16/03/2009 19:03:39
Originally by: Lindsay Logan
While blasters is good at killing cloe range, they lack the dps to make up for the short range. There simply exist other systems and ships that outperfom them.
So when the Neutrons does 16.7% more DPS than Pulses does, gun stats wise before any bonuses, and when you take the omni tank into here, then the Blasters does around 28-30% more DPS than Pulses does in web range.
So you want that any higher?. Maybe we should take it up to 50%. Doesn't that sound balanced ?.
I think 28-30% more DPS in web range is enough tbh.
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Smokeyblood
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:03:00 -
[19]
AC's are far better off then Blasters, anyone who thinks AC's are that bad obviously is playing a different game.
The tempest is really the only bad minnie ship, everything else is great for what it does, however with gallente the same can't be said as they only have a couple ships even worth flying over other races.
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Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:14:00 -
[20]
There is not a single one bad Gallente ship.
On the other hand, there is ALOT of bad Gallente ship pilots.
Merin being the first.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:17:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Smokeyblood
AC's are far better off then Blasters, anyone who thinks AC's are that bad obviously is playing a different game.
The tempest is really the only bad minnie ship, everything else is great for what it does, however with gallente the same can't be said as they only have a couple ships even worth flying over other races.
I'm going to let you take this statement back before I flame you for 4 pages.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:30:00 -
[22]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Smokeyblood
AC's are far better off then Blasters, anyone who thinks AC's are that bad obviously is playing a different game.
The tempest is really the only bad minnie ship, everything else is great for what it does, however with gallente the same can't be said as they only have a couple ships even worth flying over other races.
I'm going to let you take this statement back before I flame you for 4 pages.
Yup, AC's and Blasters are now very balanced to each others. So messing with them now is a bad idea.
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Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:36:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yup, AC's and Blasters are now very balanced to each others. So messing with them now is a bad idea.
Nah the problem is pulses being too good ...
Even when Amarr wants to shoot far they use pulses over beams half of the time ... Says alot ...
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Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:37:00 -
[24]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Lindsay Logan
Projectiles got not a terrific dps, but the got range (falloff) advantage over blasters.
Don't make me slap you. Falloff isn't range.
Well, not optimal range, but effective rang that you can hit. :)
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Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:44:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: AstroPhobic
If I had to guess, Gallente would be next in line for a boost. Even though Minmatar has been in the crapper for ages.
Amarr is a safe choice.
When have minmatar ever been boosted?
Agreeing that Gallante are next in line. Training Sentry Drones V so Merin can tell me I'm dumb
Minmatar were boosted back in 2005 with a 20% damage boost across the board. I enjoyed it for a few months before I took a break. Tempest was the best fleetship (whenever we had a BS roaming gang 3-4 Tempest used to be on top of the killmail, instapopping everything). Over all Minmatar was the best race, imo, although that maybe because of my affiliation. They had the best Ceptor, propably the best Af for it's role, best Cruiser/HACs, best and most versitale BS with the Tempest... although people started to fly multispec/NOS Domis as well at that time. But I guess the HP/Cap buff and the whole passive tanking **** ruined it for them...
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Guillame Herschel
Gallente
Buffalo Soldiers
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:54:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Malcanis
When have minmatar ever been boosted?
T2 Overdrives, then Polycarbs and Aux Thrusters. It was too much, so they got nerfed. Now all we have are falloff rigs.
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
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Jofridur
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:58:00 -
[27]
Give AC more falloff.
Give Blasters more tracking.
Nerf laser tracking (pulse and beams.)
Ease a little back on the missile "nerf". ( I honestly don't know much about the state of missiles, but people seem to whine so why not.)
I think eve has relatively good balance, but I wish they would change/boost/nerf some things like the projectiles, Failpest, Diemost and force-recons in general.
Lets not forget the Naglfail, give it 4/4 hardpoints or something!
The underdogs are the fail ships, not the races in general IMHO.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.16 20:04:00 -
[28]
Edited by: AstroPhobic on 16/03/2009 20:04:10
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Smokeyblood
AC's are far better off then Blasters, anyone who thinks AC's are that bad obviously is playing a different game.
The tempest is really the only bad minnie ship, everything else is great for what it does, however with gallente the same can't be said as they only have a couple ships even worth flying over other races.
I'm going to let you take this statement back before I flame you for 4 pages.
Yup, AC's and Blasters are now very balanced to each others. So messing with them now is a bad idea.
Glad you reconsidered.
also, just to add to your list of "only bad minnie ships"
Vargur, Naglfar, Muninn, Bellicose, Claw... should I go on? That's disregarding the obliteration of the vaga, stabber, and both recons due to web/speed nerfs...
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Grek Forto
Malevolent Intentions
Dark Solar Empire
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Posted - 2009.03.16 20:08:00 -
[29]
A tip, train what you think looks cool and work well for you. Not what's FOTM.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.16 20:57:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 16/03/2009 20:58:14
Originally by: AstroPhobic
also, just to add to your list of "only bad minnie ships"
Vargur, Naglfar, Muninn, Bellicose, Claw... should I go on? That's disregarding the obliteration of the vaga, stabber, and both recons due to web/speed nerfs...
Those ships is only bad if the player is bad.
Or actually, everyone can make any ships to be good if they want.
And i do not go after the ships that is the best or the ships that have the best stats. I'll use the ship that is fun to use and that are working very good for me and my play style.
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UMEE
Tactical Initiative
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Posted - 2009.03.16 21:05:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Train FOTM. There are no plans (at least none they have released) to significantly change overall ship balance, so you will have plenty of time to enjoy your FOTM ships before they (possibly) get nerfed.
Though if you want an order:
Amarr = Caldari >>> Minmatar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gallente
Amarr and Caldari have top-tier ships in the full range of classes, Minmatar have some good ships balanced out by massive holes (battleships, capitals), Gallente really only have the Ishkur and Dominix.
ignore our local troll here. amarr DO NOT EQUAL caldari, except maybe in large fleet battles. gall is way up there if u like the drone boats.
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Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group
Veni Vidi Vici
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Posted - 2009.03.16 21:06:00 -
[32]
Can we talk about the real problem? -- Falcons. Discuss. 
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UMEE
Tactical Initiative
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Posted - 2009.03.16 21:08:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Smokeyblood
AC's are far better off then Blasters, anyone who thinks AC's are that bad obviously is playing a different game.
The tempest is really the only bad minnie ship, everything else is great for what it does, however with gallente the same can't be said as they only have a couple ships even worth flying over other races.
no offense, but wth do you know? you were just asking for advice about this in the other thread. and you seem to be signed up to merin's fascist newsletter, which significantly decreases your credibility.
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Mr Ignitious
R.E.C.O.N.
Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.16 21:42:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Mr Ignitious on 16/03/2009 21:42:36
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Train FOTM. There are no plans (at least none they have released) to significantly change overall ship balance, so you will have plenty of time to enjoy your FOTM ships before they (possibly) get nerfed.
Though if you want an order:
Amarr = Caldari >>> Minmatar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gallente
Amarr and Caldari have top-tier ships in the full range of classes, Minmatar have some good ships balanced out by massive holes (battleships, capitals), Gallente really only have the Ishkur and Dominix.
qft and i'm not kidding. I might take away a few of the ">" between minmitar and gallente, but for the most part its true. Gallente has nothing (cept domi and ishkur) that other races can't match and outperform for any given role.
Result though is gallente can try to 2nd-3rd rate mimic everything. Still not exciting to think about
edit: accidentally hit enter and posted before i was done 
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.16 21:49:00 -
[35]
Of course if you only want to fly the best possible ship, then just hunt for FOTM.
If you want a ship you like to fly and doesnt suck, the megathron for example is also fine (assuming you like to fly it). Carry null ammo and you will have sufficient range in 95% of the short range engagements. And otherwise you can always drop sentry drones.
Tracking? Merin himself said that these days it is mainly gangs, so your gangmates will happily web and paint the primary.
---------------------------------------------
Originally by: Neth'Rae
Military experts are calling this a troll.
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Ch1pmunk
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Posted - 2009.03.17 15:38:00 -
[36]
so... im hearing that its amar and (surprisingly) caldari that are still the top dogs lol.
so i guess i will train blasters and see what happens in 6 months.
and drones are always good. for any race it seems. and projectile weapons seem to work on any ship u may be havin problems with getting cap stable. so maybe i will get those up to t2 as well lol.
26 mil sp so far and many nerfs later.... this game is still cool. its the trolls and whines that ruin it for the rest.
Nice one trying to turn this into a blaster or/and falcon whine. lol
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2009.03.17 16:44:00 -
[37]
Currently things are pretty balanced, and there is no incoming major game change. Train what you want.
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Destovel
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Posted - 2009.03.18 12:40:00 -
[38]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Edited by: AstroPhobic on 16/03/2009 20:04:10
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Smokeyblood
AC's are far better off then Blasters, anyone who thinks AC's are that bad obviously is playing a different game.
The tempest is really the only bad minnie ship, everything else is great for what it does, however with gallente the same can't be said as they only have a couple ships even worth flying over other races.
I'm going to let you take this statement back before I flame you for 4 pages.
Yup, AC's and Blasters are now very balanced to each others. So messing with them now is a bad idea.
Glad you reconsidered.
also, just to add to your list of "only bad minnie ships"
Vargur, Naglfar, Muninn, Bellicose, Claw... should I go on? That's disregarding the obliteration of the vaga, stabber, and both recons due to web/speed nerfs...
jesus ****ing christ. just stop playing minmatar if you dont like the race, get a plastic operation or something and pretend to change race.
each race has its ups and downs and are generally equal. some ships have to be looked at true... but i believe everybody knows that.
minmatar battleships are bad because of the turrets on them. large projectiles have problems true, but that doesnt stop me from flying the maelstrom.
oh and one more thing... why do you think you are able to train ships from another race? you can fly a crow inty, rifter frig, caracal hac, sleipnir comm ship and a navy raven for missions. you dont have to fly specific race ships.
so shut up please, im tired of all the minmatar whine
no offence
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
Druuge Crimson Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.18 12:56:00 -
[39]
Hopefully the Amarr lobby will be able to keep the nerfbat at bay long enough for me to finish respecing for a zealot pwnmobile. Medium Pulse Lasers shooting out to 50km is just too cool to pass up. Even if it is a glass cannon fit. |
AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:01:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Destovel
jesus ****ing christ. just stop playing minmatar if you dont like the race, get a plastic operation or something and pretend to change race.
I've trained up t2 megapulse and I couldn't be happier. That doesn't help out the fact that I have many more SP invested in minmatar - a race whose ideology I enjoy, but usefulness has been ever decreasing. Minmatar is underpowered, fullstop. I'm not really bothered that you think it's fine, because you aren't the one who balances the races.
Quote:
each race has its ups and downs and are generally equal. some ships have to be looked at true... but i believe everybody knows that.
Go forth an enlighten thyself
Quote:
minmatar battleships are bad because of the turrets on them. large projectiles have problems true, but that doesnt stop me from flying the maelstrom.
Couldn't agree more (The tempest could use slot adjustment due to midslot nerfs). The typhoon and maelstrom can both be good ships, true, but they're both easily outshined by the raven and baddon for each respective role. A projectile fix would put them closer in line.
Quote:
oh and one more thing... why do you think you are able to train ships from another race? you can fly a crow inty, rifter frig, caracal hac, sleipnir comm ship and a navy raven for missions. you dont have to fly specific race ships.
I enjoy flying taranii, myrmidons, abaddons, zealots, crusaders... I'm not exactly new around the block.
Quote:
so shut up please, im tired of all the minmatar whine
no offence
I'll keep doing what I do best, no offence. |
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Holy Lowlander
Lone Star Joint Venture
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:22:00 -
[41]
I still don't get whats the big problem with blasters.
if you take a look at torps for instance ... you need more webs and even a target painter to be effective with those.
and if you can't get in range for your blasters .. .then I guess your doing it wrong :S... Because its not that hard to just remain in blaster range ... just pulse your mwd if you want to stay close and no problems there .... Only cap but then you fit a cap booster instead of 2 webs and a scram ....
thoraxes and enyos are still very deadly blaster platforms in the right hands.
and the only problem I see with pulse lasers is in the large pulse lasers , reducing the range on megapulse IIs with scorch from 45 km to 35-40 km and adding the lost kms to falloff should fix the 'problem'.
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arbiter reformed
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:22:00 -
[42]
noooooo dont touch the tempest you fool nooooooo.
8/5/6 is awesome its the best solo bs there is atm, and a maelstrom would **** an abba 1v1, minmitar are great, and . fun! large autos neeed a small boost large arties need a massive one,
just buy a fleet pest and see the light, utility slots ftw
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arbiter reformed
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:25:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Holy Lowlander
I still don't get whats the big problem with blasters.
if you take a look at torps for instance ... you need more webs and even a target painter to be effective with those.
and if you can't get in range for your blasters .. .then I guess your doing it wrong :S... Because its not that hard to just remain in blaster range ... just pulse your mwd if you want to stay close and no problems there .... Only cap but then you fit a cap booster instead of 2 webs and a scram ....
thoraxes and enyos are still very deadly blaster platforms in the right hands.
and the only problem I see with pulse lasers is in the large pulse lasers , reducing the range on megapulse IIs with scorch from 45 km to 35-40 km and adding the lost kms to falloff should fix the 'problem'.
well as for torps a cnr does 1200 dps at 60 km to a bs.... just put a rapier in your gang if your that worried but you dont need it, a warp disruyptor 2 is usually enough on a raven ffs
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:32:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Trevor Warps
There is not a single one bad Gallente ship.
On the other hand, there is ALOT of bad Gallente ship pilots.
Merin being the first.
Trevor knows the truth , listen to him.
Matar ships are awesome btw , i would say they are even better than amarr only the zealot and apoc are too good with their optimal bonuses+ high dps.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:32:00 -
[45]
Edited by: AstroPhobic on 18/03/2009 14:32:34
Originally by: arbiter reformed
noooooo dont touch the tempest you fool nooooooo.
8/5/6 is awesome its the best solo bs there is atm, and a maelstrom would **** an abba 1v1, minmitar are great, and . fun! large autos neeed a small boost large arties need a massive one,
just buy a fleet pest and see the light, utility slots ftw
This isn't 2005, sorry.
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Originally by: Trevor Warps
There is not a single one bad Gallente ship.
On the other hand, there is ALOT of bad Gallente ship pilots.
Merin being the first.
Trevor knows the truth , listen to him.
Matar ships are awesome btw , i would say they are even better than amarr only the zealot and apoc are too good with their optimal bonuses+ high dps.
Troll somewhere else.
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:41:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Naomi Knight on 18/03/2009 14:41:23
Astro it is strange to me, that if you are so old pvper as you say,then why werent you able to learn the basics of pvp?
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arbiter reformed
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:47:00 -
[47]
tbh with all the agility bufs, and web nerfs having dual webs nuets scams and eccm all on one ship is a godsend
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nakKEDK
Gallente
tr0pa de elite
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:49:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Gallente really only have the Ishkur and Dominix.
i laughed out loud, very loud
k
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:50:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Edited by: Naomi Knight on 18/03/2009 14:41:23
Astro it is strange to me, that if you are so old pvper as you say,then why werent you able to learn the basics of pvp?
If you're going to flame, at least make some sense. 
Anyway, post your API key so we can see how many minmatar ships you can fly.
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Sahga7
Caldari
Duty.
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:52:00 -
[50]
This topic made me realize that this game is pretty well balanced. Who wins in a pvp fight is often not decided by what race they are but by their skills (and what modules are fitted because of that), how much they are willing to risk and who they bring.
I love that! To refer to another game (you know who), on their forums all you read is unbalanced this, buff that, nerf them overpower us.
Not that im saying the balance is perfect in Eve, but its not the thing that defines it.
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arbiter reformed
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.03.18 15:10:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Sahga7
This topic made me realize that this game is pretty well balanced. Who wins in a pvp fight is often not decided by what race they are but by their skills (and what modules are fitted because of that), how much they are willing to risk and who they bring.
I love that! To refer to another game (you know who), on their forums all you read is unbalanced this, buff that, nerf them overpower us.
Not that im saying the balance is perfect in Eve, but its not the thing that defines it.
at the same time though its fun to have the david vs golith effect
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.03.18 15:12:00 -
[52]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Edited by: Naomi Knight on 18/03/2009 14:41:23
Astro it is strange to me, that if you are so old pvper as you say,then why werent you able to learn the basics of pvp?
If you're going to flame, at least make some sense.
Anyway, post your API key so we can see how many minmatar ships you can fly.
I can fly both the vargur and the muninn both ships are fine for their inteded role.
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Sahga7
Caldari
Duty.
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Posted - 2009.03.18 15:21:00 -
[53]
Originally by: arbiter reformed
Originally by: Sahga7
This topic made me realize that this game is pretty well balanced. Who wins in a pvp fight is often not decided by what race they are but by their skills (and what modules are fitted because of that), how much they are willing to risk and who they bring.
I love that! To refer to another game (you know who), on their forums all you read is unbalanced this, buff that, nerf them overpower us.
Not that im saying the balance is perfect in Eve, but its not the thing that defines it.
at the same time though its fun to have the david vs golith effect
True, I love taking on camping BS's with a (small) gang of frig hull ships.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.18 15:27:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Edited by: Naomi Knight on 18/03/2009 14:41:23
Astro it is strange to me, that if you are so old pvper as you say,then why werent you able to learn the basics of pvp?
If you're going to flame, at least make some sense.
Anyway, post your API key so we can see how many minmatar ships you can fly.
I can fly both the vargur and the muninn both ships are fine for their inteded role.
API key.
Also, the vargur is clearly the weakest marauder. CLEARLY. A decent pilot can make any ship "fine". I can make a bellicose fit and be "fine". It's still an awful ship.
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Mysteriax
Scoopex
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Posted - 2009.03.19 17:50:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Mysteriax on 19/03/2009 17:51:35
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Edited by: Naomi Knight on 18/03/2009 14:41:23
Astro it is strange to me, that if you are so old pvper as you say,then why werent you able to learn the basics of pvp?
If you're going to flame, at least make some sense.
Anyway, post your API key so we can see how many minmatar ships you can fly.
I can fly both the vargur and the muninn both ships are fine for their inteded role.
Wait you actually said the muninn is fine?
Did you really mean that?
I mean you ever checked out the other sniper Hacs? Did you never see the Cane can do its job aswell and has better insurance?
More ontopic atm Amarr is top Caldari clearly second (mostly due to ECM). Minmatar and Gallente are at the bottom.
As a minmatar pilot i will comment why we are on the bottom.
1 Worst snipers. In large scale warfare in 0.0 Sniper BS are very important. I have heard allot of FCs mention they'd rather not take a pest if they can avoid it. Reasons very poor range, bad DPS alpha less important clip size.
2 Worst dreads, Nag is the worst dread i think everyone agrees on that.
3 Bad carrier stats, the nid has worse stats then any other carrier and no range bonusses.
4 Speed nerf/web nerf Speed nerf hit minmatar hard our one godlike ship the vaga is now just so so at best and the rapier cant speed tank anymore and webs barely have any effect.
5 Bad short range BS, our only decent short range BS is a typhoon. The reason why its decent its because it doesnt use projectiles much.
6 Bad mission ships dont think i need to explain here
7 HP buff and passive tanking. Due to this the active tank bonusses on minmatar ships are nearly useless (mael for example) and since ships have more HP our alpha is less important
8 Utility nerfs and scripts. Scripts ruined minmatar since we usually have the worst basic starts we really needed a boost to both stats more then any other race. Also the nerf to most utility mods crippled allot of the minmatar fleet who used it the most.
9 Titan and mothership again in the cap segment minmatar is just a little bit worse then the rest. The devs know it the players know it and the devs promised there would be a cap overhaul the question is just when.
10 Falloff While everyone besides a normal thinking minmatar pilot thinks its good remember it does 39,5% damage I think at optimal + falloff not 50% like everyone thinks it has to do with hit quality
Now the few good points of minmatar
1 Rifter yeah its awesome.
2 AFs aint bad.
3 Broadsword insane passive tanks and does its work well.
4 We dont use blasters.
5 Typhoon. I got 25 mil SP only focussed on minmatar and specialized in BS mostly and still cant fly the thing well (I need to up my drone skills), but it has good potential, something to aim for.
Thats all Cruisers are kinda meh stabber is useless these days just use a rifter and the ruppy is only good if you cant fly T2 yet, Sleip isnt really that good anymore with speed nerf. Battlecruisers are kinda balanced allround. Inty's are meh.
Noone uses destroyers much thrasher isnt bad for a dessie though. Rapier and vaga cant be considered good anymore and are just average at best.
Still I enjoy minmatar and I dont think we need major buffs but just some slight alterations.
Scary thing now is I am training for Minmatar dreads so CCP please buff em soon.
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EFT Warrior
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Posted - 2009.03.19 19:35:00 -
[56]
The only real ship I'm confused about for Minmatar is the Typhoon: what is it's role? Diversity? Please, in an age with several tiers of ships, diversity and unpredictability take a back seat to a gang of specialized ships, where the Maelstrom outdamges it up close, the Tempest is a far better sniper, and to compete you have to train up 3 different weapon systems to be subpar compared to the rest of the races ships. Has anyone found a solid use for the typhoon that can't be filled by the other two tiers?
The only advantage I can see is it's cheap and might possibly outdo a Tempest in remote repping.
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