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Ji Sama	Posted - 2009.03.18 20:34:00 - [1] Edited by: Ji Sama on 18/03/2009 20:34:59 I am seeing an increase in hauler scams, it has happened over the last couple of days... i see alot of collatoral payments (about 2%, up from less than 0.1%) is anyone else seeing something like this? i can see its the batches that has tier 4 items that get lost :( guess i shold raise collatoral then... "the majority of men has been dealt cards to a game they do not know how to play"
Dzil Caldari Apache Research Team	Posted - 2009.03.18 20:38:00 - [2] A part of me wants to courier tritanium in circles around Jita with high collateral, just to see who gets curious enough to pay to open the package. Scam the scammer, and all that.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2009.03.19 00:05:00 - [3] Originally by: Dzil A part of me wants to courier tritanium in circles around Jita with high collateral, just to see who gets curious enough to pay to open the package. Scam the scammer, and all that. Save yourself the bother - people can look inside the packages without breaking them. --- 20:1 mineral compression ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule
Fleshbot	Posted - 2009.03.19 00:14:00 - [4] Save yourself the bother - people can look inside the packages without breaking them. Wha!? How do you do that?
Zero Uptick	Posted - 2009.03.19 00:21:00 - [5] Edited by: Zero Uptick on 19/03/2009 00:22:04 there are 2 options when right-clicking a courier package, one of them "breaks" it open, failing the contract, the other simply opens it like any old container, without any penalty whatsoever old idea thread with dev response
Professor Leech Transmetropolitan	Posted - 2009.03.19 02:59:00 - [6] Originally by: Zero Uptick Edited by: Zero Uptick on 19/03/2009 00:22:04 there are 2 options when right-clicking a courier package, one of them "breaks" it open, failing the contract, the other simply opens it like any old container, without any penalty whatsoever old idea thread with dev response It only took four responses before someone who knows courier contracts to post. You can peak inside the package to see what it is. "Breaking the seal" (heh) gives you the contents. Much like a new stereo there is no way to fit it back inside the package. There are some other tricks that can be done to scam the collateral but there's no point encouraging that discussion or giving people ideas. Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
Ji Sama	Posted - 2009.03.19 08:41:00 - [7] Edited by: Ji Sama on 19/03/2009 08:42:00 well as a consequence we have cancelled all hauling contracts pending an investigation... "the majority of men has been dealt cards to a game they do not know how to play"
Business Ethics	Posted - 2009.03.19 09:17:00 - [8] You're not really being victimized here though if you set your collateral properly. Heck if I could have 100% of my courier contracts failed by the couriers it'd be half-less work for me with the same profits! But they just keep on making deliveries I did have a big 250m collateral payout tonight, but it was the first one in weeks.
KingCappo Seigers of Doom	Posted - 2009.03.19 12:29:00 - [9] Originally by: Business Ethics You're not really being victimized here though if you set your collateral properly. Heck if I could have 100% of my courier contracts failed by the couriers it'd be half-less work for me with the same profits! But they just keep on making deliveries I did have a big 250m collateral payout tonight, but it was the first one in weeks. This. I love when people break my courier contracts, because i get to avoid the hassle of having to sell the stuff myself.
Ji Sama	Posted - 2009.03.19 12:59:00 - [10] well i haul alot, and when i haul as much as i do, i need to keep the haulers happy, and when we are talking sums in the hundreds of million, i tend to cut of some. that way ill get a hauler to take the contract faster, same reason my payouts are bigger, so they actually make money hauling for me... but you are right, no one to blame but myself.. the reason for writing is that i saw an increase of several hundred percent over the last few days... "the majority of men has been dealt cards to a game they do not know how to play"
Johnny Rockefeller Builders League United	Posted - 2009.03.19 13:29:00 - [11] Originally by: Ji Sama well i haul alot, and when i haul as much as i do, i need to keep the haulers happy, and when we are talking sums in the hundreds of million, i tend to cut of some. that way ill get a hauler to take the contract faster, same reason my payouts are bigger, so they actually make money hauling for me... but you are right, no one to blame but myself.. the reason for writing is that i saw an increase of several hundred percent over the last few days... Psh, any decent hauler has plenty to cover your collateral, and as long as it's not obvious-suicide-gank-setup high, won't mind if it's on the steep side, especially if your pay is reasonable. As for losing a shipment, I would love for that to happen, considering I usually set the collateral to a good bit more than the items are worth because I'm too lazy to alt-tab to my spreadsheet and don't want to risk making it too low.
ingenting Cohors Alaria	Posted - 2009.03.19 13:48:00 - [12] It's not a scam. Learn to set the right collateral. _________________ - "Welcome to EVE, remember to insu BAAOOM... Told you, newb."
Ji Sama	Posted - 2009.03.19 14:38:00 - [13] learn 2 read.. i said there was no one to blame but myself... its a scam when you accept a contract with the intent to break it... "the majority of men has been dealt cards to a game they do not know how to play"
Tasko Pal THE IRIS United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.19 18:42:00 - [14] Wait a minute, are you complaining because someone is offering unusually high reward for courier contracts? Or is this an attempt to sniff out somebody's trade alts?
Ji Sama	Posted - 2009.03.19 19:03:00 - [15] is that to me? if so it makes no sense... i reward handsomely any hauler that have worked for me will agree to that... my contracts are very generous... what i did wrong, was lower my collateral just around 5-10 sometimes 15 percent, to get the contract fired off faster... i havent lost more than a couple of millions perhaps 50 million so its really peanuts, the point of the OP is if anyone else has seen an increase over the last few days.... "the majority of men has been dealt cards to a game they do not know how to play"
Linda Tradition	Posted - 2009.03.19 19:12:00 - [16] well i've got the problem that people accusing me to scam. this is totally wiered. im setting up contract, usally with more then 0.8-2% reward. after that i link the contract in local 1x and hope for a fast transit. most of the time, there are some guys "lol"ing me, accusing me a spammer, or telling that it wouldnt be worth the time. so k, does guys have no idea how courier conracts for and how you can make profit on ways wo usally would go empty. but this really destroys reputation. i dunno why, but for me it seams like, courier contracts are suspect for the mass of the pilots out there. anyone can share this experience?
Ji Sama	Posted - 2009.03.19 19:17:00 - [17] Edited by: Ji Sama on 19/03/2009 19:17:32 yes i have been accused of scam in local aswell when looking for haulers... quite funny that you would highsec gank someone elses freigter in your indy, carying your lootz.... well, i tend to think they arent really people but troll algorythms placed by an entity known as the one.! "the majority of men has been dealt cards to a game they do not know how to play"
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.03.19 19:45:00 - [18] Getting accused of scamming is par for the course if you run a lot of legit courier contracts. Not a day goes by that there aren't at least 2 or 3 mails in my inbox regarding the matter
Ji Sama	Posted - 2009.03.19 19:59:00 - [19] i see, thanks for sharing that.. i just thought my old troll karma was cathing up with me! "the majority of men has been dealt cards to a game they do not know how to play"
lacal Minmatar Vir Honns Lackeys	Posted - 2009.03.19 20:04:00 - [20] Just a quick post about high collateral I recently had to get a crystal implant set shipped 26 jumps across empire, paid 1.9bill so set collateral at 2.2bill, enough to replace even allowing for price fluctuations. It was the first ever courier contract I have set up, had no idea what to set the reward at so plumped for 50Mill. My concern was that someone with 2.2Bill hanging about in their wallet wasnt going to bother with a contract for 50Mill reward so jumped over to the WTS forum and put up a post 'advertising' it - I neednt have bothered, the contract was accepted with 10 minutes of me putting it up and before I even posted on the forums. I suppose the point of my rambling is that as long as the reward is worth it it doesnt matter what you set the collateral to - someone will take the contract! Unless of course I was just lucky.
Finnbar OReilly	Posted - 2009.03.19 20:08:00 - [21] I made my first billion doing courier contracts, alot of it while AFK. It wasn't until I was able to afford the higher collaterals that I was introduced to the scourge of suicide ganking. But it was always pretty easy to spot a scam attempt - a ridiculously high reward, with a high collateral, going through a known gate-camped system, like the many going from Jita to EC-P8R. Sometimes it's fun to ninja haul the stuff and get the high reward just to stiff the scammer. I did one into 0.0 with a 600 million isk reward once, which was pretty exciting. But nothing going from hi-sec to hi-sec can reasonably be considered a scam. vOv
Dire Radiant	Posted - 2009.03.19 20:17:00 - [22] Assume the smart hauler will always compare the collateral and reward loss against the package sell, if there is a larger profit to be made off breaking the package they should do it. No scam there, just smart business sense.
Ji Sama	Posted - 2009.03.19 20:31:00 - [23] Edited by: Ji Sama on 19/03/2009 20:31:20 really i am not your english teacher: google define scam please: a fraudulent business scheme/Fraudulent deal; To defraud or embezzle to the poster that talked about higher reward.. you might be right, but i am trading mostly low cost items in extreme bulks... i cant offer bigger cuts than i already am ;) good advise though, and i dont think you where just lucky... but i am creating contracts with the idea of making profits :p "the majority of men has been dealt cards to a game they do not know how to play"
Ji Sama	Posted - 2009.03.19 20:33:00 - [24] and i dont think its smart business to scam anyone... not in the long run.... i am hoping to build a reputation... a scammer will never recover, he has to reroll... "the majority of men has been dealt cards to a game they do not know how to play"
adriaans Amarr Ankaa.	Posted - 2009.03.19 21:08:00 - [25] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Getting accused of scamming is par for the course if you run a lot of legit courier contracts. Not a day goes by that there aren't at least 2 or 3 mails in my inbox regarding the matter same with me, i usually get someone shouting that at my legit curior contracts (i tend to pay more and have high value stuff, so might be why, but time is important to me) every day. they usually gets completed fast enough though. to op, never ever set collateral too low, i usually set it +20% over value. that way you'll never have any problems. -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr! Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail. QFT!
Ji Sama	Posted - 2009.03.19 21:56:00 - [26] rgr that, no more gambling with collatoral.... "the majority of men has been dealt cards to a game they do not know how to play"
lacal Minmatar Vir Honns Lackeys	Posted - 2009.03.20 00:56:00 - [27] Originally by: Ji Sama to the poster that talked about higher reward.. you might be right, but i am trading mostly low cost items in extreme bulks... i cant offer bigger cuts than i already am ;) good advise though, and i dont think you where just lucky... but i am creating contracts with the idea of making profits :p Yeah sry , that was me - i didnt think of my contract as a higher reward but on working it out its about a 2.2% cut of the collateral - spose as you've figured set the collateral so that youre covering your loss of profits and alls good
Tauranon Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2009.03.20 01:03:00 - [28] Originally by: Dire Radiant Assume the smart hauler will always compare the collateral and reward loss against the package sell, if there is a larger profit to be made off breaking the package they should do it. No scam there, just smart business sense. Goodbye repeat business.
Vested Interest	Posted - 2009.03.20 02:35:00 - [29] Originally by: Tauranon Goodbye repeat business. What does this even mean? How do you propose to stop someone from accepting your (public) courier jobs?
Selina Candor Chernobyl Trading Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.20 03:46:00 - [30] Originally by: Vested Interest Originally by: Tauranon Goodbye repeat business. What does this even mean? How do you propose to stop someone from accepting your (public) courier jobs? This would only work if one had contracted one of the dedicated freight companies but those have a rep to keep and wont work that way. I tend to set my collateral to about 20% markup of my expected sale price. Imagine my surprise and delight when one failed.

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