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Kusum Fawn
State War Academy
Caldari State
39
   |
Posted - 2012.05.02 17:42:00 -
[61] - Quote
Carton Mantory wrote:
The point is that you should be able to approach a cloaked ship hit a mod to see if you decloak him with a 10km radius cause you well know 2.5km is not that big. The mod would be only activated with a considerable cool down. Remember we want more action in camping. Each ship should have pupose and the continues with this. Just now cloak is an active occupation and not to sit around and call targets.
CCP was working on an idea like this, im not sure if they are still interested in it but for whatever reason they scrapped it,
from 2007 datadump
http://eve-online.itemdrop.net/eve_db/items/module/anti_cloaking_pulse/cloak_destabilization_pulse_i/
there are several versions of this with varying ranges.
I believe that something like this would be OP and not good for the game |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc
Mordus Angels
250
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 18:09:00 -
[62] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:Carton Mantory wrote:
The point is that you should be able to approach a cloaked ship hit a mod to see if you decloak him with a 10km radius cause you well know 2.5km is not that big. The mod would be only activated with a considerable cool down. Remember we want more action in camping. Each ship should have pupose and the continues with this. Just now cloak is an active occupation and not to sit around and call targets.
CCP was working on an idea like this, im not sure if they are still interested in it but for whatever reason they scrapped it, from 2007 datadump http://eve-online.itemdrop.net/eve_db/items/module/anti_cloaking_pulse/cloak_destabilization_pulse_i/there are several versions of this with varying ranges. I believe that something like this would be OP and not good for the game
Understand this, if you unbalance part of the game, you ruin that part of it.
It would trivialize cloaks, and that is treating them as if they weren't already considered broken by many.
How? That one is too easy to answer. Have multiple ships equipping the mod, so while one is on cooldown, others are ready. Every ship known to have a cloak, or suspected, pop that mod. Soon it would become commonly known that cloaks were useless against camps.
There can be no way this effective to hunt cloaks so long as they are being tossed out in local for all to see. |
Irisandra T'Lavel
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 19:15:00 -
[63] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Then I'd like to see local removed and replaced with an Intel tool.
It's called wormhole space with private chat channels. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc
Mordus Angels
254
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 19:18:00 -
[64] - Quote
Irisandra T'Lavel wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:Then I'd like to see local removed and replaced with an Intel tool. It's called wormhole space with private chat channels.
I would live exclusively in WHs if they had stable gates.
I have trouble with the whole unpredictable nature of system connections, and no outposts to dock up in.
(I would live in the 'woods', but I want a log cabin, not a tent) |
Irisandra T'Lavel
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 19:24:00 -
[65] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:I would live exclusively in WHs if they had stable gates.
I have trouble with the whole unpredictable nature of system connections, and no outposts to dock up in.
(I would live in the 'woods', but I want a log cabin, not a tent)
The ever changing connections is the draw for some people to w-space. I like the idea that every day I have the chance to see and kill/be killed by new faces. It keeps things fresh. I also love that moment of fear when I realize I have not checked dscan for at least a minute while salvaging, and expecting a stealth bomb to exploderize my ship at any second (even while watching dscan like a hawk).
I do not like the POS system, but there has been some very good talk about revamping them recently. I think two_step had a good post on it sometime last week. |
El Geo
Pathfinders.
Mining For Profit Alliance
21
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 23:53:00 -
[66] - Quote
Colonel Xaven wrote:Carton Mantory wrote: This mod maybe should be decloak within 10km radius as a active mod. So your newly created "mod" would make CovOps frigates redundant (jumped, cloaked, got decloaked, got instatpopped). I hope you see the consequences...
i dont quite think you get the concept
look, i have recon 5, ive used ships like a cloaking tempest, bombers, rapiers to get myself into nullsec get kills and get out with, i do go afk while cloaked, i do operate in w-space and i do fly solo.
no it wouldnt make cov ops redundent, im not talking about some uber type of pvp destroyer that gets bonus's to probing, and i already stated that in dscanning it would have to use some sort of active module so would have to be uncloaked. a covert destroyer would be an extremely niche ship to fly, with a very specific set of skills (and we all know how many players can fly hics but not dictors) the only point in it being covert is really so that it ould travel with a blops gang, meaning they wouldnt lack the same advantage the ship would give to nullbears
as for jumped, cloaked got decloaked, you obviously havent run into a decent camp ever, or dont leave highsec.... you dont need a module for decloaking people coming through a gate, just a bubble and a frigate
anyway im going into tldr mode so thats all you're getting from me on this post :P
PS i never mentioned a decloaking module, only a highslot active module that you could use to dscan cloaked ships (theres a big diference there) |
Jackal Datapaw
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 01:43:00 -
[67] - Quote
So lets recap on whats going on so far.
Original idea: Using probes that specialize in hunting down just ships, these probes can be use to hunt down cloaked and no cloaked ships
Upside: You now can warp to the generalized location of the cloaker, however, seeing most of the time, you still always end up being dropped a number of distance away from said target, you really don't force him to uncloak, and you can't lock cloakers. Jeeze :\
Downside: the probe can only be used on a specialized probe llauncher. And specialized probe launchers tend to take up a lot of ship resources.
Another idea, that actually helps both cloakers an non-cloakers alike: Change local to do something like have a 30 second delay, and or, not show pictures and and not show number changes at all.
Upside, you can now fly into systems completely unseen, downside, carebears no longer know when to dock up when someone badass warps in.
Another suggestion: A object that can be eject from your ship, that can be used to decloaked all units that get to close.
Upside, it like a depth charge, for cloaks. Downside, stealth bombers =(
Suggestion: A mod that when used, shows all cloaked ships on your D-scanner.
Upside: You now know what direction to point your ship in. Downside: It takes a long arse time to active, it takes up a high slot, possible uses up a lot of ship resources. And what happens if he like 20 AUs away? You better get flying! |
Jessie42
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
107
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 03:01:00 -
[68] - Quote
No. |
Cardano Firesnake
ICE is Coming to EVE
Goonswarm Federation
18
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 05:54:00 -
[69] - Quote
Three things should change at the same time.
1- It should be possible to probe cloaked ships, to warp on them at 0 to declaock them.
Perharps the Covert Ops frigate should have a spacial ability to be able to decloak ships 30km around...
2- Your name should disapear in the local when you cloak.
It would give a chance to cloakers to catch a pilot that did not see him enter the local and re-cloak...
3- And cloaking should cost fuel.
It would avoid afk cloaking and make the cloak use much harder. |
L0rdF1end
Sicarius.
When Hippos Attack
37
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 09:20:00 -
[70] - Quote
Just curious, I can't remember, How did Starfleet/Picard identify cloaked ships? |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources
Tactical Narcotics Team
450
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 09:43:00 -
[71] - Quote
L0rdF1end wrote:Just curious, I can't remember, How did Starfleet/Picard identify cloaked ships?
Magic. |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
139
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 11:45:00 -
[72] - Quote
L0rdF1end wrote:Just curious, I can't remember, How did Starfleet/Picard identify cloaked ships?
Over the course of the series, most cloaked ships revealed themselves.
They had to uncloak to fire or bad things happened onboard them (I think in one episode they *did* fire weapons from a cloaked ship, and bad things did indeed happen to it). |
Jackal Datapaw
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 13:01:00 -
[73] - Quote
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
3- And cloaking should cost fuel.
It would avoid afk cloaking and make the cloak use much harder.
using fuel to cloak is a rather bad idea, specially for those that are going long distances, and need to dodge a bunch of warp gates, plus, if you change local around so that you can't see cloakers in local, you won't even be able to tell if someone that is AFK cloaking, till of course, they decloak and blow your ass to kingdomcom, so that would put an extra stress on having an escort an or plan out your warps and systems you go to more carefully. |
Mike Whiite
Progressive State
State Section 9
42
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 13:17:00 -
[74] - Quote
Bah, in low sec lots of FW people sit AFK in a station.
As long as he is docked or AFK cloacked he can't interfere with you. keep hitting D-Scan and go on with what you're doing.
I you ask me that should work in 0.0 as well.
Stop whining and go playing. |
El Geo
Pathfinders.
Mining For Profit Alliance
21
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 13:25:00 -
[75] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:L0rdF1end wrote:Just curious, I can't remember, How did Starfleet/Picard identify cloaked ships? Magic.
warp signature i believe was used once or twice.... then theres spacial distortion etc etc, there are tonnes of ways you could make up
i dont want to see 'bubble decloakers' or fuel for coverts personally, my personal list is
- ships NOT uncloaking when you log off (dc's are a pita)
- a new type of covert interdictor (and module that works like the dscanner but pretty much can only tell you if theres cloaked ships around, the decloaking methods are down to the player)
- blops being able to jump into 0.6 and under (even if you have to pay some sort of 'bribe')
- a local fix, so that only ships that use gates and stations show in local (and regular cyno's ofc)
|
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1453
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 13:41:00 -
[76] - Quote
El Geo wrote:- ships NOT uncloaking when you log off (dc's are a pita)
A covops should definitely remain cloaked in the event of a disconnect.
I was recently scouting activities at a POS when my client reset, which resulted in my ship suddenly appearing on grid with their POS and warping away. There's no telling how that affected their decisions from then on. Having covops be revealed upon disconnect can completely ruin a scouting mission through technical problems.
It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
El Geo
Pathfinders.
Mining For Profit Alliance
21
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 01:46:00 -
[77] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:El Geo wrote:- ships NOT uncloaking when you log off (dc's are a pita) A covops should definitely remain cloaked in the event of a disconnect. I was recently scouting activities at a POS when my client reset, which resulted in my ship suddenly appearing on grid with their POS and warping away. There's no telling how that affected their decisions from then on. Having covops be revealed upon disconnect can completely ruin a scouting mission through technical problems.
tell me about it, then theres should i log in now or wait an hour incase they've moved a bubbler there...
|
El Geo
Pathfinders.
Mining For Profit Alliance
21
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 01:48:00 -
[78] - Quote
Rum |
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
The Revenant Order
603
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 05:32:00 -
[79] - Quote
Counter-Cloaking done right:
- A Standing Support Fleet
"War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 06:32:00 -
[80] - Quote
Jackal Datapaw wrote:And here are three posters, who provide 0 feed back, instead they just complain about an idea that is presented instead of actually providing useful feed back, if you don't think it will work Danika, Simi, Mxzf. Why don't you provide your own detail explanation on why it won't work. Provide some useful insight Danika all know one, that auto assumes if someone in a NPC corp, that they never been to a null sec area.
Mxzf, one that actually didn't respond with anything on subject with the topic, instead he just read the first line, and made a quick post about AFK users, and not actually read the subject itself.
Simi, one that didn't actually post anything related to the subject at all, only about what other people posted.
It really simple, if you don't like it, don't read it, if you have nothing to say, go vent somewhere else. It really easy.
1. AFK Cloaking is not an issue - As has been stated, if a pilot is AFK, you can do what you want. It shouldn't matter to you if they are in a station or not.
2. Cloaking is a tactic that people like to use for more than just AFK cloaking to make you think they are hunting you.
3. AFK works like a pause to some people who have families.
4. the game does not need to be altered just to fit your needs, learn to play with the tactics that exist. Cloaking does not create a balancing issue. Personally I think cloak-able ships are often (not always) too flimsy and take too big of a dps hit when using cloaks (IE The T3's dps on a covert fit is pathetic) but I don't expect them to alter the game for me, there needs to be a draw back to cloak and I function within the one that is there.
5. It's not that your idea "won't" work, it's that it doesn't need to work. Cloak works just the way it is. |
Cardano Firesnake
ICE is Coming to EVE
Goonswarm Federation
20
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 08:09:00 -
[81] - Quote
Jackal Datapaw wrote:Cardano Firesnake wrote:
3- And cloaking should cost fuel.
It would avoid afk cloaking and make the cloak use much harder.
using fuel to cloak is a rather bad idea, specially for those that are going long distances, and need to dodge a bunch of warp gates, plus, if you change local around so that you can't see cloakers in local, you won't even be able to tell if someone that is AFK cloaking, till of course, they decloak and blow your ass to kingdomcom, so that would put an extra stress on having an escort an or plan out your warps and systems you go to more carefully.
That's true, using fuel will force recon ships and covert ops to use their cloak with reflexion. These ships would of corse have a special cargohold for this fuel and enough fuel for perharps 12 hours or 720 activations. After that they will have to refuel. |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
146
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 12:57:00 -
[82] - Quote
I think I know where the ninja plexers are, now.
Cloaking is not broken, it doesn't need a trip to the vet. |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY
Tribal Conclave
104
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 13:30:00 -
[83] - Quote
A long time ago...I used to think that enemy siting cloaked for a long time in your system was an issue...
But then I started to hotdrop people... and it is fun... to se a carrier being destroyed without having a chance...
And now I still think it is broken...
But if there is no fix to it, at last ccp could make more stuff for us to do whille we sit doing nothing in a POS, waiting for the cloaker to go away... Like a better planetary interaction system, or play with the dusties 514.... |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc
Mordus Angels
258
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 13:36:00 -
[84] - Quote
Cardano Firesnake wrote:Three things should change at the same time.
1- It should be possible to probe cloaked ships, to warp on them at 0 to declaock them.
Perharps the Covert Ops frigate should have a spacial ability to be able to decloak ships 30km around...
2- Your name should disapear in the local when you cloak.
It would give a chance to cloakers to catch a pilot that did not see him enter the local and re-cloak...
3- And cloaking should cost fuel.
It would avoid afk cloaking and make the cloak use much harder.
Cardano, I think you have overlooked a significant detail with your set of ideas.
1 and 2 aren't bad, although 1 needs tweaking to not trivialize cloaks. (Anything used to hunt them has to not give gate camps an "I Win" button)
3 is completely unnecessary.
Think about it. Noone can see them in local while they are cloaked, so they are not projecting fear of surprise cyno or other attack.
Even if they are cloaked now, they can be hunted, effectively limiting their actions.
AFK cloaking as a play style would be effectively dead.
They have two options:
1 Keep moving, while they scout probe or whatever. Assume someone is trying to track them whenever they see probes out, and warp incessantly.
2 Get into a deep safe. Don't launch probes, and hope noone even thinks to look for you. You could go AFK, but you would risk someone looking for you and finding you napping. |
Carton Mantory
Occassus Republica
Trade Wind Commodities
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 14:29:00 -
[85] - Quote
Fuel for cloak is trit |
Sunviking
The Shining Knights
46
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 15:14:00 -
[86] - Quote
Here's my idea:
A Spacial Distortion detector that is able to detect the presence of any cloaked ships ongrid. It doesn't tell you where they are, just that they are there. |
xavier69
Stark Enterprises LLC
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 16:27:00 -
[87] - Quote
after 5 years i am so ooking tired of hearing this wine!
Solutions
1. TURN OFF LOCAL CCP like wormhole space!
2. MAKE CLOAKED SHIPS NOT SHOW IN LOCAL!
Then people like this whiner wouldn't even know the cloakers are there as intended!
A cloaking device was designed to sneak up on people for a surprise attack.
The fact CLOWNS troll local is the problem with out local or being removed from local while the cloak mod is active would mean the cloaker could do a surprise attack sooner; the reason they do afk is because they have wait till u are not expecting an attack and because you troll local like a bioch that means hours of afk.
IF the mod worked as intended you would never know they where even there till attacked clearly ccp has failed to deliver a true cloaking device |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
146
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 16:55:00 -
[88] - Quote
How much do you want to bet that half of the "cloakers" plaguing these nullsec dwellers aren't even cloaked half the time?
When was the last time they actually tried scanning one down? |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc
Mordus Angels
258
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 17:35:00 -
[89] - Quote
Buzzy Warstl wrote:How much do you want to bet that half of the "cloakers" plaguing these nullsec dwellers aren't even cloaked half the time?
When was the last time they actually tried scanning one down?
How about rarely if ever?
Metaphor: In some animal shows, big animals like elephants let ropes hold them, because they believe ropes can hold them.
This is because when they were very young, they were secured with ropes, and were not yet strong enough to break free.
As they grew older, they never questioned if this was still true, and allowed themselves to be bound as a result.
After hearing from a couple of people, or even trying it themselves, they found they could not find a cloaked vessel.
Now, they probably just need to be told someone is cloaked. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic
Tragedy.
1616
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 18:05:00 -
[90] - Quote
mxzf wrote:The real issue you're having isn't the AFK cloakers, it's the fear of AFK cloakers. Someone who's AFK can't hurt you.
I somewhat disagree with this. The fear isn't of the "AFK cloaker". I couldn't give two ***** about an AFK cloaker if I had a way of knowing 100% that he is, in fact, AFK. The fear comes from the unknown of whether he really is AFK or not. If there is a cloaky in system I have a few options. I can continue ratting or mining under the knowledge that someone may or may not be there and run the risk of getting ganked by someone I cannot see, scan or defend against. I can dock up and wait for hours or days on end until he leaves. Or I can...move to another system?
Having an AFK cloaky in system yields a tactical advantage during wars. If he is there, people can't rat or mine to make ISK to pay for ships to fly.
Yes...people argue "but he is AFK and therefor not a threat.". You dont KNOW that for a fact. The moment you go out and mine or rat, he can jump you and destroy your ship and then recloak and be gone before you can react. Well...now you know he isn't AFK but how do you know when he is and when it is safe to come out?
I love to afk cloak and bomb people in systems. It's fun as hell. It's also easy as hell and I am 150% safe from anybody killing me so long as I don't derp. So yes, I enjoy AFK cloaking in my Manticore's and Purifier's. I enjoy it a lot as I use multiple characters to bomb people with all the time. Always completely safe from any harm or retribution at all.
It isn't right and needs to be fixed.
EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
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