| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Jackal Datapaw
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1
   |
Posted - 2012.04.29 21:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I was thinking, from the problems such as AFK cloakers that is sit in someone's null sec space, just so they can destroy the indy and mining of that system, yet they arn't even at the computer, they are just sitting there to troll. So here the idea of how this will work.
Module name: Gravitational distortion probe
Possible skills required to use said probe:
Science V
Astrometrics V
possible a few other skills, that might resolve around grav-metric reports.
Maybe even a skill involving using the probe itself. And maybe even have a launcher dedicated to this probe, and this can prevent some OP seeing only one kind of probe launcher can be put on at a time. This could bring in the possibility of a new job, a cloak/ship hunter killer, dedicated in finding hidden hostiles.
The probe could work very much like all other probes, only it can only detect ships, and cloaked ships.
Of course, we must always have counters for an item like this! for someone that really dedicated in making sure he stays hidden could equip items that help with making their signature harder, and harder to lock onto, of course this means he will have to make a tactical choice of taking away items off his fit to make sure someone doesn't find him.
Now this is just an idea, I'm wondering if it possable, and what kinds of changes you would have, or make to said item of you think it a good idea.
Remember, Posting "That's an awful idea," is not constructive. It also breaks one of the ground rules, if you don't like it, and don't have anything constructive to post, please don't post anything at all. =) |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1437
|
Posted - 2012.04.29 22:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
The real issue you're having isn't the AFK cloakers, it's the fear of AFK cloakers. Someone who's AFK can't hurt you. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
855
|
Posted - 2012.04.29 22:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
mxzf wrote:The real issue you're having isn't the AFK cloakers, it's the fear of AFK cloakers. Someone who's AFK can't hurt you.
The real problem that needs to be addressed is the reason people have to cloak up in a system for hours just for a chance to get a kill.
Also, is it me or is this the third OP in the last day who either hasn't understood that, or has deliberately ignored it?
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources
Tactical Narcotics Team
430
|
Posted - 2012.04.29 22:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ahh, Sebiestor Tribe. That great nullsec powerhouse.
I don't believe you have ever set foot in nullsec. You should probably try it before you complain.
That, or post with your main. |
Jackal Datapaw
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.04.29 22:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
And here are three posters, who provide 0 feed back, instead they just complain about an idea that is presented instead of actually providing useful feed back, if you don't think it will work Danika, Simi, Mxzf. Why don't you provide your own detail explanation on why it won't work. Provide some useful insight Danika all know one, that auto assumes if someone in a NPC corp, that they never been to a null sec area.
Mxzf, one that actually didn't respond with anything on subject with the topic, instead he just read the first line, and made a quick post about AFK users, and not actually read the subject itself.
Simi, one that didn't actually post anything related to the subject at all, only about what other people posted.
It really simple, if you don't like it, don't read it, if you have nothing to say, go vent somewhere else. It really easy. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
856
|
Posted - 2012.04.29 23:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jackal Datapaw wrote:
Simi, one that didn't actually post anything related to the subject at all, only about what other people posted.
Congratulations on not reading, or being too stupid to understand, my first paragraph.
There is a reason people feel the need to go AFK cloaked up in a system. It is because local Intel is such a powerful tool that the only way to devalue it is to always be in local, in the hope that the occupant forgets about you or decides to risk it and ignore you.
You cannot address AFK cloaking without addressing the issues with local Intel.
Also, mxzf was trolling you. He understands every single nuance of AFK cloaking, and has probably read hundreds of threads like yours all with the same idea. Because unfortunately none of you idiots take the time to use the search function to see if something similar has been proposed before.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Katie Frost
Asgard.
Exodus.
38
|
Posted - 2012.04.29 23:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
I think what you are misunderstanding Jackal is that what the three previous posters are trying to tell you. They aren't approaching your proposal because they do not believe that your premise that there is a problem in the first place exists. And I tend to agree with them.
AFK Cloaking in all common sense cannot be a problem. The person is 'Away From Keyboard' and therefore should pose as much threat as a person that is docked up in a station or sitting inside a POS.
What you are proposing, in effect, is a counter to standard/CovOps Cloaking. However, you did not explain in your OP why cloaking as a game mechanic is broken and would need to be addressed via the implementation of your proposal. Until you do so, you will not get any constructive feedback to your actual proposal. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
856
|
Posted - 2012.04.29 23:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Katie Frost wrote:I think what you are misunderstanding Jackal is that what the three previous posters are trying to tell you. They aren't approaching your proposal because they do not believe that your premise that there is a problem in the first place exists. And I tend to agree with them.
AFK Cloaking in all common sense cannot be a problem. The person is 'Away From Keyboard' and therefore should pose as much threat as a person that is docked up in a station or sitting inside a POS.
What you are proposing, in effect, is a counter to standard/CovOps Cloaking. However, you did not explain in your OP why cloaking as a game mechanic is broken and would need to be addressed via the implementation of your proposal. Until you do so, you will not get any constructive feedback to your actual proposal.
Actually I do disagree with AFK cloaking, I would like to see the system scanning array CCP created enabled so that people can (slowly) scan down afk cloakers.
Then I'd like to see local removed and replaced with an Intel tool. Or for a short term fix just delay local by 30 seconds.
However this probably isn't the thread to discuss it in. OP is an idiot, his idea doesn't even acknowledge most of the current issues on this topic let alone address them and there are literally hundreds of identical ideas.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Jackal Datapaw
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.04.29 23:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
Please don't call me an idiot, that is considered harassment. That is reportable. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
856
|
Posted - 2012.04.29 23:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jackal Datapaw wrote:Please don't call me an idiot, that is considered harassment. That is reportable.
You must be new here.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Sekket
Dissident Aggressors
Mordus Angels
20
|
Posted - 2012.04.29 23:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:
There is a reason people feel the need to go AFK cloaked up in a system. It is because local Intel is such a powerful tool that the only way to devalue it is to always be in local, in the hope that the occupant forgets about you or decides to risk it and ignore you.
You cannot address AFK cloaking without addressing the issues with local Intel.
You cannot remove local without providing another form of passive detection, the game would be far too lopsided in the favor of agressive play for the carebears to get anything done.
Abusing game mechanics and inadequate game mechanics are two separate issues. Right now AFK cloaking is abusing game mechanics because it allows a person to disrupt activities while not being active at the keyboard. AFK cloakers want people to just ignore the threat so they can get killmails. It makes a joke of sovereignty. AFK cloaking proponents like to tell people to put together an operation to defend against the apparent threat. However to instill paranoia with an AFK cloaking alt does not take an operational effort. The level of effort is minimal. There is no way to address the potential threat of a cloaked neutral or war target in your system at all. It is far too asymmetric.
The best proposal is to add a fuel element to the cloak so that a cloaker cannot leave his ship in a system afk without supervision and a re-supply effort.
- CQ isn't a refuge, it's a cage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iu4iekX3WE |
Katie Frost
Asgard.
Exodus.
38
|
Posted - 2012.04.29 23:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Actually I do disagree with AFK cloaking, I would like to see the system scanning array CCP created enabled so that people can (slowly) scan down afk cloakers.
Then I'd like to see local removed and replaced with an Intel tool. Or for a short term fix just delay local by 30 seconds.
However this probably isn't the thread to discuss it in. OP is an idiot, his idea doesn't even acknowledge most of the current issues on this topic let alone address them and there are literally hundreds of identical ideas.
Mmhm and the kind of stuff that has been raised and discussed about a hundred times before in just as many forum topics.
What needs to be clarified is that your are combating an aspect of cloaking. Add 'AFK' anywhere in there and you may as well be advocating for modules that can (slowly) push people out of POSes over time or tow them out of their respective station. Removing 'Local' is seemingly the most effective countermeasure to the 'AFK' aspect of cloaking.
However Simi, before we turn this into yet another discussion about this issue, which is completely unnecessary as it has been done so many times before. Let us agree that the OP did not do his research, has therefore proposed yet another poorly thought-out idea on fixing an issue that he did not clearly explain and at best could be considered non-existent - and let this topic die in peace. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
856
|
Posted - 2012.04.29 23:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sekket wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:
There is a reason people feel the need to go AFK cloaked up in a system. It is because local Intel is such a powerful tool that the only way to devalue it is to always be in local, in the hope that the occupant forgets about you or decides to risk it and ignore you.
You cannot address AFK cloaking without addressing the issues with local Intel.
You cannot remove local without providing another form of passive detection, the game would be far too lopsided in the favor of agressive play for the carebears to get anything done. Abusing game mechanics and inadequate game mechanics are two separate issues. Right now AFK cloaking is abusing game mechanics because it allows a person to disrupt activities while not being active at the keyboard. AFK cloakers want people to just ignore the threat so they can get killmails. It makes a joke of sovereignty. AFK cloaking proponents like to tell people to put together an operation to defend against the apparent threat. However to instill paranoia with an AFK cloaking alt does not take an operational effort. The level of effort is minimal. There is no way to address the potential threat of a cloaked neutral or war target in your system at all. It is far too asymmetric. The best proposal is to add a fuel element to the cloak so that a cloaker cannot leave his ship in a system afk without supervision and a re-supply effort.
I actually agree with you, but I disagree concerning the solution. I'll post and explain why in a minute, just going to swap from my phone to a computer 
*EDIT: Heh, edited to agree with katie's proposal to let this thread die a quiet death 
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy
Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2012.04.29 23:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jackal Datapaw wrote:Please don't call me an idiot, that is considered harassment. That is reportable.
actually its flaming i think,
everything is reportable, but that deosnt mean that they will take action, CCP has some very vague ideas on what is and isnt allowed, but thats a different topic entirely,
and depending on the particular GM's interpretation of the TOS, bannable/warning/nothing.
but the other points still stand, AFK cloaking is not a hazard, Its the guy that comes back while you are out trying to do something.
sitting in a system for several days cloaked is annoying as hell for the other inhabitants of that system, while it in and of itself is not a threat, the fear of what will inevitably happen when that guy returns and finds you ratting or mining is what keeps people from doing anything with him in the system.
There ought to be some other name for it so that people stop getting hung up on the semantics, we all know what is being discussed.
the problems is how to implement an idea that can be used to detect and catch cloaked ships without destroying the use of cloaks. there have been many many threads on this, I personally like a sov tied structure idea, or a t2 dessy that lights itself up like a cyno. uncloaking things or just making them scannable for a short amount of time. (i believe that there should be lots of alarms when someone is decloaking someone else)
camping is a tactic. obnoxious, but realistic. Its also something that every game and real life situation has had to deal with. I havent seen a good counter to it yet.
your idea is not as fleshed out as several other ideas, and suffers from the same problems in presentation as many of the other threads.
consider MZXF. just for a second. If you cannot answer him, troll as he often is, then you dont have a full idea. He answers tons of threads with "why" and if you cant answer that question, you have no idea what it is you are trying to do. |
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
209
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 00:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
"AFK cloakers that is sit in someone's null sec space, just so they can destroy the indy and mining of that system"
This is where I stopped reading. Cloaking does not stop you from mining.
Consistently, the only people who whine about cloaking are those who want risk-free mining in null-sec.
UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
273
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 00:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jackal Datapaw wrote:please read before nuking
Can't read OP from orbit, nuking anyway. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
452
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 03:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jackal Datapaw wrote:Mxzf, one that actually didn't respond with anything on subject with the topic, instead he just read the first line, and made a quick post about AFK users, and not actually read the subject itself.
He questioned the premise of needing something -- anything -- to counter AFK cloaking. I would do the same. The premise is poor and therefore the solution is unneeded.
Yes, I read the whole thing. My opinion on the flawed premise didn't change.
|
Frau Leinsmarch
Merchants Trade Consortium
The Last Chancers.
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 04:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
mxzf wrote:The real issue you're having isn't the AFK cloakers, it's the fear of AFK cloakers. Someone who's AFK can't hurt you.
This,
The real issue here is local, people use it too much as an indicator as to whether a system is safe or not. WH space FTW, where miners cant fear local & also die horribly to ganks. |
L0rdF1end
Sicarius.
When Hippos Attack
35
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 10:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
mxzf wrote:The real issue you're having isn't the AFK cloakers, it's the fear of AFK cloakers. Someone who's AFK can't hurt you.
Bullsh1t, How are you suppose to know if he's afk or not.
This subject now has been brought up soooo many times it's obviously a game breaking problem for those that like to play the game in a specific way.
It's about time CCP put a temp fix in place for this until they redo local/intel.
I propse that we have a button on DSCAN that confirmes if a person is AFK or not.
It works like this...
You hit your AFK Cloak finder button on DSCAN.
This pings a member of CCP support.
CCP pulls the address of the player from data base.
CCP person then gets in CCP van and drives/flies to the users address.
CCP person then knocks on the door and confirms if players is in and whether he is at his computer.
CCP person then beats the **** out of the persons computer with a CCP sledgehammer. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
74
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 11:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jackal Datapaw wrote:Please don't call me an idiot, that is considered harassment. That is reportable.
Reporting someone for making an accurate statement of fact will only engender derision.
|
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
213
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 11:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
L0rdF1end wrote:mxzf wrote:The real issue you're having isn't the AFK cloakers, it's the fear of AFK cloakers. Someone who's AFK can't hurt you. Bullsh1t, How are you suppose to know if he's afk or not. This subject now has been brought up soooo many times it's obviously a game breaking problem for those that like to play the game in a specific way. .
It's game breaking that you don't know who to use a Cyno Jammer and the D-Scanner? Just maybe your idiocy and laziness is breaking the game for you?
Jam system and check for black ops with your D-Scanner. If you can't manage that then GTFO of this game and head back to WoW for risk free profits!
UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch |
Tarn Kugisa
Space Mongolian
Pinked
75
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 11:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
They are a threat ONLY when Active or Uncloaked
Because of spies.
And we have no way of telling if they are AFK
I Endorse this Product and/or Service
[url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16580[/url] |
El Geo
Pathfinders.
Mining For Profit Alliance
18
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 12:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
there are too many of these threads lol
for starters people need to drop the whole afk thing, like someone said in another thread, when you enter local in sov alot of people just dock and go afk anyway, instead keep the idea a simple one that could improve the whole cat and mouse play aswell as buffing the cloaking ships or mechanic that increases the fun both ways, maybe a covert (giving the ability to insert it into a sov area using blops aswell) destroyer type that can use a sonar ttype device when uncloaked aswell as a rework of local etc
lets be honest there are tonnes of ways to make the idea interesting and fun, and it is an interesting idea. Sov space is boring, tonnes of empty systems then a station system with 20 bears who sit on the undock and complain you wont take them on in a brawl, the only reason to join a nullsec alliance is for bearing with blues and blobbing people, you dont need to be in any alliance for pvp there |
L0rdF1end
Sicarius.
When Hippos Attack
35
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 13:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
Miss Whippy wrote:L0rdF1end wrote:mxzf wrote:The real issue you're having isn't the AFK cloakers, it's the fear of AFK cloakers. Someone who's AFK can't hurt you. Bullsh1t, How are you suppose to know if he's afk or not. This subject now has been brought up soooo many times it's obviously a game breaking problem for those that like to play the game in a specific way. . It's game breaking that you don't know who to use a Cyno Jammer and the D-Scanner? Just maybe your idiocy and laziness is breaking the game for you? Jam system and check for black ops with your D-Scanner. If you can't manage that then GTFO of this game and head back to WoW for risk free profits!
wow, what a noob reply. NPC space does not allow jammers.
D-Scan doesn't work if they are cloaked.
Go join Eve Uni, they might teach you a thing or two about game mechanics
Personally I do not care if they fix this or not, just sick of the moaning on here and seeing the same subject brought up on a weekly basis.
Because it's brought up soo often it must be an issue for a large part of the game playing community.
|
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc
Mordus Angels
241
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 14:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jackal Datapaw, your research on this topic is horribly biased, and incomplete.
Cloaking has already been broken for some time. It is balanced, however.
Sound like a contradiction? Then you also assume balance implies functionality, which it does not.
Cloaking is broken by local reporting it, in an absolutely reliable manner. This is broken.
It is however, balanced by:
You absolutely cannot locate a cloaked vessel, unless they let you, or make a mistake. This is also broken.
Since both sides are countering each other, it is in balance.
Sadly, this leaves cloaking as a meta gaming tool. Many people enjoy this play, so to them there is no problem at all. |
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
213
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 14:17:00 -
[26] - Quote
L0rdF1end wrote:Miss Whippy wrote:L0rdF1end wrote:mxzf wrote:The real issue you're having isn't the AFK cloakers, it's the fear of AFK cloakers. Someone who's AFK can't hurt you. Bullsh1t, How are you suppose to know if he's afk or not. This subject now has been brought up soooo many times it's obviously a game breaking problem for those that like to play the game in a specific way. . It's game breaking that you don't know who to use a Cyno Jammer and the D-Scanner? Just maybe your idiocy and laziness is breaking the game for you? Jam system and check for black ops with your D-Scanner. If you can't manage that then GTFO of this game and head back to WoW for risk free profits! wow, what a noob reply. NPC space does not allow jammers. D-Scan doesn't work if they are cloaked. Go join Eve Uni, they might teach you a thing or two about game mechanics Personally I do not care if they fix this or not, just sick of the moaning on here and seeing the same subject brought up on a weekly basis. Because it's brought up soo often it must be an issue for a large part of the game playing community.
Here's a thought, stop being an utter ****** and don't mine in NPC space?
How is a cloaked ship going to kill you **** head? Oh and BTW, black OPs ships can't fly cloaked. I'd tell you to go learn about it but lets face it, if you can't work any of that out for yourself, you're probably too much of an idiot to learn anything.
UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch |
L0rdF1end
Sicarius.
When Hippos Attack
35
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 14:23:00 -
[27] - Quote
Miss Whippy wrote:L0rdF1end wrote:Miss Whippy wrote:L0rdF1end wrote:mxzf wrote:The real issue you're having isn't the AFK cloakers, it's the fear of AFK cloakers. Someone who's AFK can't hurt you. Bullsh1t, How are you suppose to know if he's afk or not. This subject now has been brought up soooo many times it's obviously a game breaking problem for those that like to play the game in a specific way. . It's game breaking that you don't know who to use a Cyno Jammer and the D-Scanner? Just maybe your idiocy and laziness is breaking the game for you? Jam system and check for black ops with your D-Scanner. If you can't manage that then GTFO of this game and head back to WoW for risk free profits! wow, what a noob reply. NPC space does not allow jammers. D-Scan doesn't work if they are cloaked. Go join Eve Uni, they might teach you a thing or two about game mechanics Personally I do not care if they fix this or not, just sick of the moaning on here and seeing the same subject brought up on a weekly basis. Because it's brought up soo often it must be an issue for a large part of the game playing community. Here's a thought, stop being an utter ****** and don't mine in NPC space? How is a cloaked ship going to kill you **** head? Oh and BTW, black OPs ships can't fly cloaked. I'd tell you to go learn about it but lets face it, if you can't work any of that out for yourself, you're probably too much of an idiot to learn anything.
rofl my ass off, someone needs anger management.
Mine??? LOL
Almost fell off my chair.
why the anger mr noob? |
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
213
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 16:39:00 -
[28] - Quote
L0rdF1end wrote:
rofl my ass off, someone needs anger management.
Mine??? LOL
Almost fell off my chair.
why the anger mr noob?
Oh, so you're scared the nasty cloakers are going to hurt you while you're ratting? That's even worse!
Or maybe you just even can't read the OP which you are defending, where he whines that he can't mine because a nasty man is AFK cloaking. Maybe all your problems stem from your inability to understand words!
UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch |
El Geo
Pathfinders.
Mining For Profit Alliance
19
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 18:09:00 -
[29] - Quote
i cant stop thinking about ice cream now |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
884
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 18:15:00 -
[30] - Quote
El Geo wrote:i cant stop thinking about ice cream now
Damn, now I want some Ben & Jerry's :(
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |