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Stars in WH's older then known age of universe...EXPLAINED?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Levaria Gallente Ever Flow Axiom Empire	Posted - 2009.03.20 01:22:00 - [1] Edited by: Levaria on 20/03/2009 01:26:47 Soo...me and the corpmates were running a site in WH space..so checking info on a star for giggles I clicked for info and got its age at 35 billion years old..I figure Eve is a hard sci fi mmo type of game (or at least a close one) So I decide to submit a bug report stating known age of the universe is estimated at around 13 Billion years old, and that they must have made a silly mistake with the info on the star...and this is the reply that i got...Hmmmm... (Highlighted the good stuff) Here is the reply i got from yesterdays bug report..kinda interesting explanation. Hello Levaria, Thank you for your bugreport - ID:####### Title: Incorrect age of stars The problem you have described as an intended game feature, and not a bug. Your bugreport has been filtered. The BugHunter Team Report ID: ###### Title: Incorrect age of stars Description: Some of the stars in wormhole systems are showing up as 35 billion years old....twice the age of the known universe...just a thought :-) // Thank you for your report. Wormholes lead to stuff that it isn¦t known space, and the stuff inside is.. ancient. I would say this is by design. // Reproduction Steps: N/A So...heh... Two ideas... A. WH Lead to some sort of time travel event, we are going into the future and seeing whats evolved of the eve races...or B. Alternate dimension, universe? Ideas? Since they didnt deny that it's an intended part of the game...wonder what this means and if it will be explained further? (Edited to remove GM ID's..) ~Pirates May Cry but Care Bears will die!~
Gunnanmon Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2009.03.20 01:24:00 - [2] ibtl ------------------------ Please do not discuss moderation in your sig - Mitnal
Irida Mershkov Gallente Shadowsun Syndicate	Posted - 2009.03.20 01:25:00 - [3] Different universe maybe? Or is older? Maybe? Also, ibtl. Don't post GM replies dawg.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2009.03.20 01:26:00 - [4] IBTL. Wouldn't stars have shorter lifetimes than the universe anyway, making it even more wrong? - DesuSigs
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.20 01:29:00 - [5] Different universe, possibly. As well ... what if the universe we are seeing is the universe of the original Earth system? This, of course, would mean that sleepers are the leftovers of the universe that the humans of EvE left behind. Cataclysm? Universal war? Time jumping? Interesting possibilities. Originally by: 5pinDizzy Troll Score-o-Meter --------Failure----------\|\|\|-----------Succes------- 10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1--0--1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10
Levaria Gallente Ever Flow Axiom Empire	Posted - 2009.03.20 01:32:00 - [6] I know...this opens up some interesting stuff ~Pirates May Cry but Care Bears will die!~
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2009.03.20 01:34:00 - [7] Interuniversal portals are unlikely to also serve as intrauniversal portals. Much more likely to be another galaxy or somewhere else in the same galaxy. - DesuSigs
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey	Posted - 2009.03.20 01:38:00 - [8] Originally by: Irida Mershkov Different universe maybe? Doesn't Universe by definition - include everything?
Irida Mershkov Gallente Shadowsun Syndicate	Posted - 2009.03.20 01:40:00 - [9] Originally by: Eventy One Originally by: Irida Mershkov Different universe maybe? Doesn't Universe by definition - include everything? Yeah but it doesn't make much more sense than anything in New Eden anyway.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey	Posted - 2009.03.20 01:42:00 - [10] Originally by: Irida Mershkov Yeah but it doesn't make much more sense than anything in New Eden anyway. Good point.
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.20 01:43:00 - [11] Originally by: Eventy One Originally by: Irida Mershkov Different universe maybe? Doesn't Universe by definition - include everything? I guess you're seeing that many of us seem to believe in the 'multiverse'. Originally by: 5pinDizzy Troll Score-o-Meter --------Failure----------\|\|\|-----------Succes------- 10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1--0--1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10
WarlockX Amarr Free Trade Corp	Posted - 2009.03.20 01:43:00 - [12] You forget that original story line is that at some point earth evolved space travel, expanded out to the known galaxy until there was nowhere left to expand then found a worm hole to eve. After some time this wormhole colapses technology is lost and then RE-invented. I would say there's a good chance 35 Billion years have passed. How long does it take to expanded throughout a galaxy, recreated technology from scratch and then re-expand through out a another small piece of a different galaxy. ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey	Posted - 2009.03.20 01:45:00 - [13] Edited by: Eventy One on 20/03/2009 01:45:33 Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon I guess you're seeing that many of us seem to believe in the 'multiverse'. I see then, that your multiverse is 'the universe' so it's merely semantics.
Tony Kael Caldari Interstellar Federal Forces Forged Dominion	Posted - 2009.03.20 01:47:00 - [14] unless its a parallel universe. but thats getting pretty deep. to be honest i think that the wormholes lead to another cluster within the same galaxy, just deeper towards the galaxy core, hence the age of the stars (i assume the closer one gets to the centre of the galaxy, the older the systems are?) what i was wondering was; what is the difference between the spawning wormholes and the EVE wormhole. when EVE collapsed it wiped out a whole system and scarred the fabric of space. but these wormholes pop in and out with no effect on the surrounding space. furthermore, the Jove knew about the sleepers and therefore must have been able to travel to, or already inhabited, the systems on the other side of the wormhole. the sleepers are also the only discovered race on the otherside of the wormholes, meaning that each wormhole must lead to systems that neighbour each other in the same sort of cluster that the EVE systems are arranged in. i haven't spent alot of time in W-Space, but so far no jump gates have been discovered have they? the wormholes do not lead to isolated systems, it would make no logical sense for the holes to lead to random systems at different edges of the galaxy and for there still to be one constant race (or the trace of one). therefore there must have existed a complex, advanced and interconnected mode of transportation throughout the sleeper clusters. Jump gates, i would imagine, are the next part of the puzzle. ____________________________________ Interstellar Federal Forces
Taedrin Gallente Golden Mechanization Protectorate	Posted - 2009.03.20 01:49:00 - [15] Edited by: Taedrin on 20/03/2009 01:55:55 Originally by: Eventy One Originally by: Irida Mershkov Different universe maybe? Doesn't Universe by definition - include everything? Nope. Universe traditionally refers to the world around us. According to various other theories, there may also be a "Multiverse", which is made up of multiple "universes". The term you are thinking about is "Omniverse", which is by definition, everything. EDIT: After some wikipedia research, the key difference between the terms "universe" and "omniverse" is that the "universe" can only have one set of the laws of physics. An omniverse contains all possible realities with all possible laws of physics. Note that the omniverse may not actually exist in reality, as there very well may only be a single universe. But in the even that the many-world's hypothesis is correct, the terms "multiverse" and "omniverse" are needed.
Zurrar Gallente Universal Exports FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2009.03.20 01:50:00 - [16] Well the KNOWN universe is 12b years old, that's the known part. Its like back in time we KNEW the earth was the center of the universe. Its all relative tbh. [yellow]Sig removed, only one graphic per sig please. If you would like further details please [url="http://support.eve-onl
Catherine Frasier	Posted - 2009.03.20 01:58:00 - [17] Originally by: Levaria I figure Eve is a hard sci fi mmo type of game (or at least a close one) And there's your mistake. Maybe if you put the word comparatively in front of hard to say that Eve's science is "more rigorous" than many other mmos (but that's really not setting the bar very high).
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.20 02:06:00 - [18] Escalation of understanding, I guess. At one point, scientists discovered the solar system and it's planets, and thought that THIS was all there was. At another, they discovered the galaxy made up of solar systems, and for a short while, thought THIS was all there was. Now we know that there are multiple galaxies that make up this universe. Sci fi writers and scientists them speculate that it's possible that there may be multiple universes. That's only one way of looking at it, obviously, and isn't very scientific in lingo. And basically that a universe is just another grouping, this time of galaxies. The other definition of universe is 'everything in existance'. Though as Taedrin mentions, this definition of universe has kinda been remade into 'omniverse', but until we have proof that there are multiple universes, I guess it's still just sci fi. Originally by: 5pinDizzy Troll Score-o-Meter --------Failure----------\|\|\|-----------Succes------- 10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1--0--1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.03.20 02:09:00 - [19] Originally by: Zurrar Well the KNOWN universe is 12b years old, that's the known part. Its like back in time we KNEW the earth was the center of the universe. Its all relative tbh. Actually I would say the supposed age of the universe. It wasn't too long ago that scientifically minded people thought the world and the universe was only a few thousand years old. So yeah its all relative to the amount of information at the time of the hypothesis. Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman
Tony Kael Caldari Interstellar Federal Forces Forged Dominion	Posted - 2009.03.20 02:10:00 - [20] EVE does pride itself on explaining its science in a plausible way. The creation of wormholes and sleeper systems are not outside the storyline and very slowly this will all tie in together and with it will come scientific explanations. like i said there are some holes to be filled - Jump gates between Sleeper systems are the next logical step. its all leading back to the EVE gate. They made a particular point in the story of comparing these wormholes to the EVE gate. ____________________________________ Interstellar Federal Forces
Nullity Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.20 02:13:00 - [21] Edited by: Nullity on 20/03/2009 02:15:49 Everyone in this thread should keep in mind the following: -Our universe is approximately 14 billion years old. -The EVE star cluster is not in the Milky Way. Up until this point, it could always be assumed to exist within our universe though. -The current year is approximately 23,347 AD if you use the Gregorian calendar. The year, if you use the Yulai Convention calendar, is 111. With all that said, it can be concluded that the Wormholes obviously don't lead to a normal part of space. It could be a different universe, or it could be the result of time travel. Only CCP knows.
Levaria Gallente Ever Flow Axiom Empire	Posted - 2009.03.20 02:15:00 - [22] Edited by: Levaria on 20/03/2009 02:16:06 I agree...in the end I am interested how they will implement this into the next expansion. ~Pirates May Cry but Care Bears will die!~
Tony Kael Caldari Interstellar Federal Forces Forged Dominion	Posted - 2009.03.20 02:16:00 - [23] Originally by: Nullity Everyone in this thread should keep in mind the following: -Our universe is approximately 14 billion years old. -The EVE star cluster is not in the Milky Way. Up until this point, it could always be assumed to exist within our universe though. -The current year is approximately 23,347 AD if you use the Gregorian calendar. The year if you use the Yulai Convention calendar, the year is 111. With all that said, it can be concluded that the Wormholes obviously don't lead to a normal part of space. It could be a different universe, or it could be the result of time travel. Only CCP knows. i think that the Wormholes lead to a cluster in the same galaxy as ours. Stars are all different ages and the oldest in the EVE cluster is 14billion. I believe that the cluster that the sleepers inhabit is simply older than ours. I also believe its within the same universe as the technology is traced back to the 4 races that existed before the modern day EVE races. Furthermore the wormholes do not dump us at random, they all lead to systems within the same cluster. It would be highly unlikely for sleepers to be dotted at random across seemingly infinitely distanced systems. ____________________________________ Interstellar Federal Forces
Aegis Osiris Gallente Demonic Retribution Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.03.20 02:16:00 - [24] <sigh puts on silly science teacher's hat> Regardless of what space wormholes (Einstein-Rosen bridges, for the true geeks here) might lead to, their stars can't be 35 billion years old unless you are dealing (possibly) with white dwarf stars, and even then it is likely they'd cool to black dwarfs in such a time scale. On the main sequence, the only stars with a chance of being possibly that old are the very smallest red dwarf stars. Everything else will be much younger (ex. our sun, small on the main sequence, will have a life span of 10-12 billion years over all). In other words...don't put much stock into attaching science to EVE. Just enjoy the game and don't worry about it. <takes science hat off> Class dismissed. I like violet more then pink.
Levaria Gallente Ever Flow Axiom Empire	Posted - 2009.03.20 02:18:00 - [25] Edited by: Levaria on 20/03/2009 02:18:36 Well, has it not been hypothesized that space expands faster then light..therefore...theoretically we can only see within a known 13 billion bubble of light that has had time to reach us so far...so maybe sleepers are just further out beyond the edge of observable space? ~Pirates May Cry but Care Bears will die!~
Nullity Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.20 02:20:00 - [26] Edited by: Nullity on 20/03/2009 02:20:44 Originally by: Tony Kael Originally by: Nullity Everyone in this thread should keep in mind the following: -Our universe is approximately 14 billion years old. -The EVE star cluster is not in the Milky Way. Up until this point, it could always be assumed to exist within our universe though. -The current year is approximately 23,347 AD if you use the Gregorian calendar. The year if you use the Yulai Convention calendar, the year is 111. With all that said, it can be concluded that the Wormholes obviously don't lead to a normal part of space. It could be a different universe, or it could be the result of time travel. Only CCP knows. i think that the Wormholes lead to a cluster in the same galaxy as ours. Stars are all different ages and the oldest in the EVE cluster is 14billion. I believe that the cluster that the sleepers inhabit is simply older than ours. I also believe its within the same universe as the technology is traced back to the 4 races that existed before the modern day EVE races. Furthermore the wormholes do not dump us at random, they all lead to systems within the same cluster. It would be highly unlikely for sleepers to be dotted at random across seemingly infinitely distanced systems. If the wormholes lead us to the Milky Way galaxy or the EVE galaxy, the stars could not be older than 14 billion years old. While it's possible in real life that we have insufficient information concerning the age of the universe, I highly doubt CCP would incorporate such conjecture into their plotline. Unless there's some kind of trippy time travel effect going on in the Wormhole systems, there's no way for them to exist within normal space due to the ages of the stars.
Taedrin Gallente Golden Mechanization Protectorate	Posted - 2009.03.20 02:21:00 - [27] Originally by: Aegis Osiris <sigh puts on silly science teacher's hat> Regardless of what space wormholes (Einstein-Rosen bridges, for the true geeks here) might lead to, their stars can't be 35 billion years old unless you are dealing (possibly) with white dwarf stars, and even then it is likely they'd cool to black dwarfs in such a time scale. On the main sequence, the only stars with a chance of being possibly that old are the very smallest red dwarf stars. Everything else will be much younger (ex. our sun, small on the main sequence, will have a life span of 10-12 billion years over all). In other words...don't put much stock into attaching science to EVE. Just enjoy the game and don't worry about it. <takes science hat off> Class dismissed. Unless EVE is following the many-worlds interpretation of the universe, and wormhole space has a different set of physical laws and constants. Of course, this causes me to come to the same conclusion as you: Trying to apply real life science to EVE is a futile endeavor
Asuka Smith Gallente StarHunt	Posted - 2009.03.20 02:30:00 - [28] I am willing to bet that this is a case of the left hand not talking to the right and the bug hunters are just stupid. Bug hunters are not CCP employees and I strongly doubt that they can call up Sharkbait and just make some inquiries. I have a feeling the age of the stars means nothing and you are all reading waaay too deep. & IBTL.
Sabrage	Posted - 2009.03.20 03:05:00 - [29] For all we know, the vast amount of our scientific knowledge will seem both infantile and obselete in the not too distant future. History suggests this is not an unlikely event.
Rexthor Hammerfists Rage of Inferno Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2009.03.20 03:05:00 - [30] a wizard did it -

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