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CCP v Valve Round 2

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Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2009.03.23 21:49:00 - [91] Originally by: Tellenta What I'm trying to say is that it is impossible to judge a developer and not base it off what game you find better in your own personal opinion. A lot of people voted for Valve because of Steam. So, um, what? - DesuSigs
Khlitouris RegusII	Posted - 2009.03.23 22:00:00 - [92] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Tellenta What I'm trying to say is that it is impossible to judge a developer and not base it off what game you find better in your own personal opinion. A lot of people voted for Valve because of Steam. So, um, what? Shouldnt that be voted against valve because of steam?
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2009.03.23 22:01:00 - [93] Edited by: Gamer4liff on 23/03/2009 22:02:00 Originally by: Crumplecorn You do hate console gamers, don't you? You realise CCP are up against another PC developer here, silly console ports notwithstanding? Okay fine, contards notwithstanding it's still not a fair fight if not only because of the enormous amount of exposure valve gets as opposed to the relativity niche CCP. If this was a poll taken from the game development community rather than just a straight up popularity contest it would be a lot more significant. Seriously though, console gamers are garbage, the human garbage that developers market games like Deus Ex 2 to, further ruining gaming as a whole. But that's not really related to this thread. ----------- Originally by: CCP Whisper Deal with it.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2009.03.23 22:10:00 - [94] Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Tellenta What I'm trying to say is that it is impossible to judge a developer and not base it off what game you find better in your own personal opinion. A lot of people voted for Valve because of Steam. So, um, what? Shouldnt that be voted against valve because of steam? It should be, but it's not. Originally by: Gamer4liff Seriously though, console gamers are garbage Oh, thanks. - DesuSigs
Nevenda'ar	Posted - 2009.03.23 22:32:00 - [95] I'd have to go with Valve. 3am. You are alone in the apartment, all lights are off. Everything is quiet, except for a neighbors dog occasionally howling down the street. You have just entered Ravenholm, no ammo, only a crowbar and a gravgun. You can hear the headcrabs around the corner... That was probably the best feeling of immersion I ever got from any game.
Cloue Gallente Stripping Agency	Posted - 2009.03.24 00:11:00 - [96] Edited by: Cloue on 24/03/2009 00:11:28 never stood a chance ---------------------------------------------- 8 out of 10 Owners who Expressed a Preference said Their Cats Preferred Gallente Stripping Agency.
minerboob Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2009.03.24 01:34:00 - [97] CCP does not have a chance. Think UCONN vs UT-Chatt (round 1, and UCONN more than doubled the score of UT) I love CCP but valve does a ****tun more.
5pinDizzy	Posted - 2009.03.24 01:51:00 - [98] If CCP had made steam it would probably have ended up like Gamespy Arcade, a tacky interface, laced with adverts where you have the option of paying a subscription for to get a better service. CCP have squeezed every ounce of $$$ where it can from it's customers without overstepping but going right up to the fine line of looking balentely money grabbing. Documentation for Eve is terrible at best, support sites are mostly 3rd party. Terrible interface within Eve. Gameplay suffers heavily from lag in a lot of ingame areas, probably because they only spend as much money on servers as barely necessary. You generally get the feeling of not being worth much to them unless you're a new player, if you're an older player who cares, you're already in the basket, CCP loves new players. Multiplayer aspect of EVE is mostly without skill involving predermined battles where usually a unfathomably large number of players will destroy a very small or inferior amount then pat themselves on the back for it and call themselves hardcore. Or a pirate in a ridiculously pimped out cruiser finds a mission runner and orbits and turns his modules on then goes for a burger. Alliance Tournaments is about as interesting as Eve PvP ever gets for most people. Whereas Valve ; Nurtured and supported it'd modding community from Half Life 1 until it thrived to be the best modded game around, giving a 1998 game years and years of life after it should have died. As said, mutually benefitted its mod teams for their games rather then just exploiting them. Generally occupies the moral highground for the small time gamer and genuinely cares for the service it gives them, giving them a better service rather then deciding to offer a crappier service and make more money which it could easily have done at any time. if you disagree with me then you should probably post a response and stop reading my signature.
Makhan	Posted - 2009.03.24 01:56:00 - [99] Originally by: 5pinDizzy If CCP had made steam it would probably have ended up like Gamespy Arcade, a tacky interface, laced with adverts where you have the option of paying a subscription for to get a better service. CCP have squeezed every ounce of $$$ where it can from it's customers without overstepping but going right up to the fine line of looking balentely money grabbing. Documentation for Eve is terrible at best, support sites are mostly 3rd party. Terrible interface within Eve. Gameplay suffers heavily from lag in a lot of ingame areas, probably because they only spend as much money on servers as barely necessary. You generally get the feeling of not being worth much to them unless you're a new player, if you're an older player who cares, you're already in the basket, CCP loves new players. Multiplayer aspect of EVE is mostly without skill involving predermined battles where usually a unfathomably large number of players will destroy a very small or inferior amount then pat themselves on the back for it and call themselves hardcore. Or a pirate in a ridiculously pimped out cruiser finds a mission runner and orbits and turns his modules on then goes for a burger. Alliance Tournaments is about as interesting as Eve PvP ever gets for most people. Whereas Valve ; Nurtured and supported it'd modding community from Half Life 1 until it thrived to be the best modded game around, giving a 1998 game years and years of life after it should have died. As said, mutually benefitted its mod teams for their games rather then just exploiting them. Generally occupies the moral highground for the small time gamer and genuinely cares for the service it gives them, giving them a better service rather then deciding to offer a crappier service and make more money which it could easily have done at any time. And yet having said all this you still play AND care enough to post about it on the forums?
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2009.03.24 02:04:00 - [100] Calling CCP moneygrabbing when they maintain a game which is an immediate turnoff to, what, 95% of MMO players?, when they could just carebearise and shard it to make far more is pretty funny. On the other hand, Valve, via Steam, deny you your legal right to resell games you own, as the second hand market costs them sales. Nice. - DesuSigs

5pinDizzy	Posted - 2009.03.24 02:04:00 - [101] And yet having replied right after me, you still quoted all that again? I never said I didn't like Eve/CCP, I just like Valve a whole lot more. Why wouldn't I care enough to post that? I like challenging people to change my opinion. if you disagree with me then you should probably post a response and stop reading my signature.
Flaming Lemming Caldari Puppeteer Press	Posted - 2009.03.24 02:33:00 - [102] Voting for Valve...at least they show no favouritism. Looks like this is appropriate again...
Aleyra Mel	Posted - 2009.03.24 02:35:00 - [103] Voting for Valve also. CCP dont deserve a win there, not when they dont obey their own rules and act so unprofessional.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2009.03.24 02:38:00 - [104] Originally by: 5pinDizzy I think they do want to carebearise Eve, I think the problem is they are on a tipping scale, if they do it too fast they lose a lot of their current customer base before they'd gained enough of a foothold with a more larger casual community and ruin themselves. So I think we'll just keep seing a gradual transition. Take what Eve was like when it first came out, then imagine a similar amount of change in the same fashion again on a future version of Eve. Speculation. What Valve is doing to screw up games is here and now, and affects far more than their own games. What CCP might do to one game in the future doesn't compare. Originally by: 5pinDizzy Oh and EA games offer something like Steam too of course, that's also crap compared to Steam despite all of EA's money. Plus a lot of modern games come with cd keys that tend to lock you into some online one time only account of some form that's against some ToS if exhanged hands. So because others are doing it that makes it ok? Uh huh... - DesuSigs
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.03.24 02:39:00 - [105] Valve is pretty much Curb Stomping you CCP. ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
CHAOS100 Widowmakers	Posted - 2009.03.24 03:58:00 - [106] If CCP was actually serious maybe they wouldn't have timed more developer misconduct so close to this "match". --------------
Mrsticks Minmatar RNCGM Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.24 04:56:00 - [107] Is this on the news page for the login... Checks... Nope..???? Why Not Dont let valve win Direct traffic to the site!!!!!!!!!!! Long Live TEXAS! Texans join the Texas channel in game plz.
Iamien Caldari Stargate SG-1 Sev3rance	Posted - 2009.03.24 05:30:00 - [108] I say Eve sends every player an IGM asking them to vote. we would easily beat valve then.
Buster Gonads	Posted - 2009.03.24 08:57:00 - [109] What is this idiocy? Voting for apples against oranges (no pun intended)? Different game genre; it's not possible to choose one over the other. I've played most Valve games (not Steam, Valve). I spend more time in team fortress and left 4 dead than I do Eve. I'm more excited about Episode 3 and I am about walking in stations..... But you know as I say, the two are not comparable, so the whole poll is daft.
Jhagiti Tyran Mortis Angelus	Posted - 2009.03.24 09:00:00 - [110] Originally by: Mrsticks Is this on the news page for the login... Checks... Nope..???? Why Not Dont let valve win Direct traffic to the site!!!!!!!!!!! Would look bad, almost like they where begging for votes.

Buxaroo Reikoku Band of Brothers Reloaded	Posted - 2009.03.24 09:07:00 - [111] I love CCP and Valve. Both are great companies. EVE is the best MMO out there (if you don't agree then why are you here ;)) and Valve have the best software distribution method around not to mention being the guys behind the masterpiece's of Half Life 1 and 2. Both are unique companies. I have been a Valve customer sense Half Life 1 came out and I downloaded Team Fortress Classic and then Counter Strike Beta 4 (old CS was way better than CS: Source though, it actually took a bit of skill to aim and get a headshot, unlike now ) and I bought and own $400 worth of games off of the Steam catalog. I was the biggest skeptic of Left4Dead though because before I played it I considered it nothing more than a Zombie mod for Source. Boy was I wrong. One of the best FPS games out there. Having said all of that, CCP will get my vote just to tip the balance a bit from all of the non-EVE players who will be voting for the other games.
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2009.03.24 09:14:00 - [112] Originally by: Buster Gonads What is this idiocy? Voting for apples against oranges (no pun intended)? Different game genre; it's not possible to choose one over the other. I've played most Valve games (not Steam, Valve). I spend more time in team fortress and left 4 dead than I do Eve. I'm more excited about Episode 3 and I am about walking in stations..... But you know as I say, the two are not comparable, so the whole poll is daft. As said about 10 times already in this Thread, this competition is NOT about comparing their Games. Its about the Developers and how they do. Sad to say but Valve gets my vote also. CCP just threated their Costumers like **** the past few Months.
Reven Cordelle Caldari Lemuria Prospecting	Posted - 2009.03.24 09:45:00 - [113] I'd vote Valve regardless, I just can't ignore the number of OSSOM games they've released over their lifetime.
Brumin Rush Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.24 11:12:00 - [114] Originally by: Angry Poster The only thing I associate with Valve is 1984 and Big Brother. After I noticed that I had to be online and connected to their servers so I could play a single player game (HL2) I never bought another game from valve or had anything to do with Steam again. So clear win for CCP if it were up to me - even if some Valve games are pretty fun. Amen brother, Amen! The putrid stench that steam let out was inexcusable. I uninstalled that turd and never played nor bought nor will ever install a game with steam on it.
Callista Sincera	Posted - 2009.03.24 11:36:00 - [115] Originally by: 5pinDizzy stuff I haven't played any recent Valve games, but I remember Halflife used id Software's 3d engine (the quake guys). It was this engine which came with all the mod support you're praising Valve for. If people were really voting for the best "developer" instead of just the games they like most, id should have won the first round since they are the ones who made those games possible in the first place. Furthermore on the topic of Valve, just look at Steam and realize that this is how you get the money out of people without them even realizing it. As for their customer support, I don't know but I can imagine that it would be hard for Valve to be any worse than CCP is, so yes, that's probably a point for you. Obviously the same goes for Eve's terrible UI that should have received a facelift years ago as well as for CCP's serverstructure - but that's something they are atleast working on (with noticible results). I don't think it is an issue of them not wanting to pay for more servers if that would help (i.e. more servers don't help if one node lags due to a fleet battle). You also seem to imply that CCP wants to "carebearize" the Eve. Can't even begin to tell you how much I disagree. This game still has the steepest learning curve of every game I've played. Nothing comes even close. With a little less than 1 year played, I still feel like a newb in this game and 90% of the content CCP releases seems to focus stuff that is still so far away that I won't see it for at least another year. So claiming that CCP would prefer new players in any way is just so completely wrong that I believe you've simply played this game for too long. You too far away from the fence to see that the grass is not greener on the other side.
TheGunslinger42	Posted - 2009.03.24 11:45:00 - [116] Originally by: Gamer4liff Edited by: Gamer4liff on 23/03/2009 22:02:00 Originally by: Crumplecorn You do hate console gamers, don't you? You realise CCP are up against another PC developer here, silly console ports notwithstanding? Okay fine, contards notwithstanding it's still not a fair fight if not only because of the enormous amount of exposure valve gets as opposed to the relativity niche CCP. If this was a poll taken from the game development community rather than just a straight up popularity contest it would be a lot more significant. Seriously though, console gamers are garbage, the human garbage that developers market games like Deus Ex 2 to, further ruining gaming as a whole. But that's not really related to this thread. So you're saying its not a fair fight because valve are more well known (possibly because they make numerous great games, as opposed to just one)? Isn't that like saying a race wasn't fair because the winner was faster than the other runners?
Callista Sincera	Posted - 2009.03.24 11:48:00 - [117] Originally by: TheGunslinger42 So you're saying its not a fair fight because valve are more well known (possibly because they make numerous great games, as opposed to just one)? Isn't that like saying a race wasn't fair because the winner was faster than the other runners? Would you want CCP to work on another game instead of continuing the work on eve?
Jamez Graand I.M.M Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.03.24 11:54:00 - [118] Im addicted to Eve but Valve IMO should definitely win this, and possibly the whole contest (maybe blizzard). Yo Ray!
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.03.24 12:20:00 - [119] Originally by: 5pinDizzy Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 24/03/2009 02:24:42 And yet having replied right after me, you still quoted all that again? I never said I didn't like Eve/CCP, I just like Valve a whole lot more. Why wouldn't I care enough to post that? I like challenging people to change my opinion. @Crumplecorn I think they do want to carebearise Eve, I think the problem is they are on a tipping scale, if they do it too fast they lose a lot of their current customer base before they'd gained enough of a foothold with a more larger casual community and ruin themselves. So I think we'll just keep seing a gradual transition. Take what Eve was like when it first came out, then imagine a similar amount of change in the same fashion again on a future version of Eve. Adding 2500 new systems with 0 sec and delayed local was just a diversionary move, right?
Shade Millith International House of PWNCakes Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.03.24 12:22:00 - [120] I'd have to go with Valve on this one As much as I love EVE, Valve has made it MUCH easier for Indie developers to sell and advertise their game. Steam is VERY good now that they fixed it up (Yes, I DO remember the steam of old. Horrid thing)



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