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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
AK Archangel Warhamsters Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.03.27 10:14:00 - [331] SAY NO TO TORPEDOS! Devs stop destroy Sb class to full useless trash. Cruise is the best choice for SB as jack of all trades! JUST FIX cruise missile bonus on SB!
galphi Gallente Unitary Senate Unitary Enterprises	Posted - 2009.03.27 10:45:00 - [332] If you want to increase the choices a player has with bombers, add the ability to fit siege launchers in addition to cruise launchers (dual role!). Add an explosion velocity and missile velocity bonus and it'll work fine.
Haramir Haleths	Posted - 2009.03.27 11:19:00 - [333] SB worked fine until Missile Nerf. Bring back the Missile for SB inline. IMO Torpedoes doesnt make sense. I'll be dead before my torpedos hit the BS. Why should i engage a BS with a paper thin tank. BS pilot will laugh at us
jinmoti boslen2	Posted - 2009.03.27 11:20:00 - [334] Edited by: jinmoti boslen2 on 27/03/2009 11:21:52 I dont understand why CCP think the ideas for this are good? It seems to be so wildly different to its original role just a year ago that most pilots will either have to re-train certain elements of their skills, or will just stop flying it altogether. As far as i know the SB was never an overpowered ship either.. I never seen a nerf sb thread (Unlike Falcons..) I really think that the addition of torps will be a nice idea, but must be an ADDITION to the ship class, not a replacement. Also explosion velocity... Simple effective balancing trick that will work wonders for the ship.. Edit:Typos
Immersive Immersive Technology Solutions	Posted - 2009.03.27 11:53:00 - [335] The current role of a Stealth Bomber, as I see it, is to: Kill frigates Threaten Cruisers Harass Battleships Tickle Capital ships To that end, in my order of priority: Missiles and bombs NEED to be able to deal their damage regardless of whether the launching ship is destroyed / warping / cloaked. Guns have instant damage, missile have delayed damage. Missiles should not have nullified damage. Cruise Missiles are fine as primary offensive systems, but boost explosion radius slightly, and explosion velocity significantly. Your intended target is a FAST frigate, after all. If you are determined to go with Torpedoes, then they should be able to deal full, unmitigated damage to their intended target, moving at its full (unmodified) speed. Ergo, boost to explosion radius and explosion velocity, again. Torpedoes should also be provided a range boost. I'd like to see Covert Ops Cloaks made available to Stealth Bombers, but it's not essential (provided the cloaked speed change goes through) If Covert Ops cloaks are provided, the speed bonus should be adjusted to provide a similar speed bonus as is current. If not, then I'm all for a significant speed boost while cloaked. Please note that I think the paper thin tank is fine, if the above points are met. --- New to the API? GrabRaw XML It's coming...
Morcol	Posted - 2009.03.27 12:31:00 - [336] In short, dumbass idea!
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2009.03.27 13:03:00 - [337] Originally by: Hesperius Ask any current SB pilot if they like these changes, not just people who fantasize about using them. Half of the posters here (those posting "I like it...") actually mean "...it will be my joy to popping these helpless bricks". Originally by: Eka Lawrencia Now they want to hammer it home that bombers are close range in order to best use the lack of the locking delay. The torp change will neither break nor make bombers, it will either shift or expand their target portfolio. The new alphas of 4000 together with cloaked speeds in excess of 1k are mind boggling for any serious bomber pilot. Alfa will be no more than 3200 with proposed changes. Check with EFT. And adding torps will remove cruises - I said why. Thus leaving SB helpless against any target. ANY. You'll need 10+ bombers to pop a lone BS, and you have no counter against frigates and drones. More than 10 ships on the same orbit as you - means there's always someone at 2.5km of you so you can't use flash-cloaking tactics. Result: You dead. Originally by: EvilSpork dont limit bombers to torps. cruise AND torps Not gonna happen. Increase in CPU to fit torp launchers will mean the carte blanche to fit full T2 2x BCS 2x WCC 3k++ Alfa cruise packs. -- Thanks CCP for cu
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2009.03.27 13:25:00 - [338] Originally by: Immersive The current role of a Stealth Bomber, as I see it, is to: Kill frigates Threaten Cruisers Harass Battleships Tickle Capital ships If we take in count a good gang of SB's with a tackler (a Keres or Kitsune, but any EWar frig will do good in one way or another) - more than 6 SB's will only disturb eachother, less than 5 will be useless against bigger targets. with these numbers, 1. Killing frigs is ok. Basically anything under Cruiser hull is ok. 2. Killing T1 cruisers and half of T1 BC is easy enough due to sheer alfa and small explo sig. 3. Other half of T1 BC with a Drake atop and T2 cruiser hulls would pose a problem. 4. Battleships would either die or survive depends on fitting and battlefield. I'd say, it's another 50/50, which is good chances for EVE. --- cut the Cruise missiles usage here --- 5. Capital ships - here coming Bombs. Big sig and slow target - what the juicy opportunity to unleash these dear, precious babies? Watch out for support fleet - they will melt you quickly! but here comes a problem. How many bombs you need to dismantle a single dread? I think there should be changes... As described previously. Quote: To that end, in my order of priority: Missiles and bombs NEED to be able to deal their damage regardless of whether the launching ship is destroyed / warping / cloaked. Guns have instant damage, missile have delayed damage. Missiles should not have nullified damage. Bombs yes, cruise missiles no. Cruises fast enough to reach target in time your module acting, until it gone inactive - you will still deal damage, even cloaked. Quote: Cruise Missiles are fine as primary offensive systems, but boost explosion radius slightly, and explosion velocity significantly. Your intended target is a FAST frigate, after all. No, not boost. Bring it in line with the game changes. That will do fine. We're not asking to make us OP, but to keep balance across the changes. Quote: If you are determined to go with Torpedoes, then they should be able to deal full, unmitigated damage to their intended target, moving at its full (unmodified) speed. Ergo, boost to explosion radius and explosion velocity, again. Torpedoes should also be provided a range boost. If you read proposed changes again, you'll see that it's what they are against... :X They want to leave SB the only ship that helpless against ships of the same size... even smaller. Any Rookie ship with disruptor and civilian blasters will pop a multimillion SB easily. Even shuttle would be able to ram and kill SB... Quote: I'd like to see Covert Ops Cloaks made available to Stealth Bombers, but it's not essential (provided the cloaked speed change goes through) I long time decided against CO cloak. Not on combat ships, four CO recon pretty much enough for a whole EVE. Quote: If Covert Ops cloaks are provided, the speed bonus should be adjusted to provide a similar speed bonus as is current. If not, then I'm all for a significant speed boost while cloaked. Well, no. No, not that, BIG NONO. CO cloak + speed boost no way. You can warp in while CO'loaked, that's enough. Quote: Please note that I think the paper thin tank is fine, if the above points are met. Paper think tank is only fine if you fighting the same paper-thin tanked ships. -- Thanks CCP for cu
Mithfindel Gallente Zenko Group	Posted - 2009.03.27 13:49:00 - [339] I have thought about several ideas that might actually be of some use. For the Stealth Bombers, one would wish enough range (to help escape) and good alpha for those ambushes. My best solution candidate for using torpedoes with minimal changes to bonuses as current would be to add instead of just Explosion Radius bonus both Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity bonuses. For the range, add the bonuses from Destroyer class (adjusted for missiles): +25 % Siege Launcher Rate of Fire (i.e. "fire slower") and +50 % Torpedo velocity. Yes, it's going to hurt a fair bit (-30 % damage), but it lets the ships fire from further away. Perhaps even increase the value of the new penalty/bonus pair to +50 % RoF and +100 % Torpedo velocity - torpedoes are so slow that this shouldn't cause problems with the physics engine, right? This would mean that a fully skilled character would fire torpedoes that do 50 % more damage (+25 % from Racial Frigate and +25 % from Covert Ops) and has torpedoes with the same flight time but 100 % more range. Assuming Evelopedia's up to date, this would mean a velocity of 3 km/s and flight time of nine seconds to the full range of 27 km, with the bad part being that the DPS would be totally crap. Explosion radius, however, would be roughly 75 meters and explosion velocity roughly 260 m/s (assuming I got Target Navigation Prediction skill right). Still not very useful against other frigates, though. For large targets, noting its ridiculously low DPS, it could likely use having its damage bonus from racial frigate skill being increased to +10%, making a total of +75 % to volley damage.
Pouet Pouet	Posted - 2009.03.27 14:35:00 - [340] I'm a 99% SB pilot. SB is what actually brought me into PvP. I don't want them to be much too cool to use ! Cause the bomber is really one of those ships that you need to learn ! you don't warp in/activate gunz/wait to see who pop first. Making it too cool will bring way to much Bombers noobs into the bomber game Imo. It will be like mixing Mozart with Puff Daddy ... for christ sakes lol. Keep the bomber a "special" ship to fly, pleeeaaassse !

Devasatation	Posted - 2009.03.27 14:52:00 - [341] My $0.02 Can we keep the current bombers and modify their bonuses slightly so that they do more damage to smaller, faster targets but less against larger targets(give them a explosion velocity bonus instead of one of their damage bonuses maybe?). Then introduce a second tier of Bombers designed to use torpedoes (like a Kahnid version of the Purifier or something) that would do lots of damage to large targets, but little damage to small ones. That way you would have the choice of which bomber you want to use.
Pedro Sangre Ars ex Discordia	Posted - 2009.03.27 15:11:00 - [342] Actually, if we're thinking about completely changing things, let's go all out. Start with cap ships. Give them additional "meters" to go with shield / armor / structure. Let's say they're weapons / jump drive / active tank (or whatever). When a stealth bomber attacks a cap ship, it damages these subsystems instead of tank. Keep cruise / bombs as the delivery method, with the current bonuses (maybe slight tweaks to adjust for the missile changes?). Since the cap systems ehp can be chosen appropriately for balance. it makes it easy to balance bomber damage against intended target without having unintended consequences against other ship types. This also allows people who love it today to be happy too / again. Why? Why can dreads roll up to your towers unsupported just because you're at work or asleep and unable to field a full conventional fleet? It means caps would have to be supported much more, including at the hostile tower. And it prevents a handful of cheap ships from outright destroying multi-billion isk assets - you need proper fleet DPS to do that. Proper fleet DPS means in your prime you're better off bringing BS instead of -~wulfpax~-. I think the velocity bump is good, regardless of the direction the changes go. It gives the bomber a role as a fast on-grid warp-in.
HEPBHOE OKOH4AHUE U.K.R.A.I.N.E United Legion	Posted - 2009.03.27 15:15:00 - [343] By the way, few pages before the one man offered a brilliant idea: use destroyers hull for stealth bombers. Probably, it is the time to declare "old frig-size stealth bombers are out of the market due to the invention of the destroyers hull adaptaion" or smth like that. /me dreaming of Sabre with 6 cruise launchers, improved cloak and standard stealth-bomber bonuses.
Odinegras Gallente 0utbreak KrautbreaK	Posted - 2009.03.27 16:46:00 - [344] What about a complete rethink of Stealth? Giving stealth bombers a mid slot module that keeps them off the overview and also means they cant be locked (or increases the lock time on you) the downsides of this module would be that you cant continue to keep a target locked and it takes you longer to lock a target (since this module also affects your own targeting systems) Instead of them having a cloak as there stealth they are now more an electronic stealth ships. Carrying on this theme you could then bring out a destroyer hull that can use torps and maybe a BC hull that uses capital class weapons (citadel torps). High Alpha ships with really no defense except stealth (but can still be seen in space) and cant fire more than a volley without having to relock the target to fire again.
N1r0	Posted - 2009.03.27 16:57:00 - [345] + - Using torps with a significant range boost. 50-80km would be nice. - Let the missiles hit, even if the SB cloak (maybe with lower damage like : 50% of the flight time during cloak = -50% damage?) - Cloakt warping like a Falcon .. maybe op? - Increase Rate of Fire significant. just some ideas
yani dumyat Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.	Posted - 2009.03.27 17:28:00 - [346] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Yellow submarine complete with torpedoes! We are also taking an opportunity to look at stealth bombers in light of the changes over the past years and seeing if we can make them more useful overall. Data: We have a ship with a nice long range weapon (cruise) and a broken short range weapon (bombs) that we want to make more useful. Data is put into the CCP thinking machine and the hamsters powered up to full. Output: Lets remove the working weapons system and add a second short range system. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Effects of this change as I understand it: -> SB's will become the uber hauler/miner suicide gank ship - CCP better have the mop and bucket ready for all the carebear tears in their petition inbox. -> SB's will no longer be viable in a support fleet or cruiser/frig gang due to limited target choice and vulnerability to cruisers and frigs (or just about anything else) -> In 0.0 you will be easy prey for a support fleet so the bombers will need to be in a separate wing that can flank the support and take on the enemy BS's directly (ie way more niche than it is now) -> In gangs they would be lethal against the unsupported battleships that you never see. -> In low sec there may be a use for taking out flashy gate camps, at least that's what i'd do with it _______________________________________________________________________________________ Leave cruise alone, I like my range tank tyvm. Fix explosion radius/velocity. Fix bombs and allow them to work in low sec. Cloaked speed increase yes please
Vall Kor Minmatar ZipZoom Kaboom	Posted - 2009.03.27 20:12:00 - [347] _______________________________________________________________________________________ Leave cruise alone, I like my range tank tyvm. Fix explosion radius/velocity. Fix bombs and allow them to work in low sec. Cloaked speed increase yes please I agree, SBs are pretty much fine. The need fine tuning not an overhaul. Adjust missiles if you want to "fix" SBs.
Max Hardcase Art of War	Posted - 2009.03.27 21:09:00 - [348] Why not invent a targeted bomb that only does damage to its target ? Ofcourse it would require some tweaking of how the bomb launchers work exactly. No target locked and it works like it does now ( area bombs ) Target locked and you can fire directed energy bombs. In general I do like Cruise misseles on bombers....siege seems a bit weird given the scale of the XL weapons. Important fix for area bombs : make the damn bombs omni resistant please.
Chiselhead	Posted - 2009.03.27 21:18:00 - [349] Well first I have to ask you is this a stealth bomber or a heavy missle frigate. At present the overwhelming point that most people make to me is it isn't very stealthy at all, and although the idea of traveling a little faster while warped is somewhat appealing to me, I think I would be much happier if I could fit a covert ops cloaking device, this way I could actualy warp to a targert is a stealth mode. Torpedos is just wrong as is cruise missles, to many restrictions on bombs makes this ship impractical to use in its role, allow thier use in low sec,(can't allow thier use in hi sec as ice miners would ever be safe again)make thier damage a little greater or make them less expensive to build. Right now the cost per use doesn't warrant a practical use for these. In closing make the stealth bomber a stealth bomber not a heavy missle frigate. we have enough heavy missle boats in this game we really could use a stealth bomber that is practical to use.
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2009.03.27 21:35:00 - [350] Originally by: Devasatation Can we keep the current bombers and modify their bonuses slightly so that they do more damage to smaller, faster targets but less against larger targets(give them a explosion velocity bonus instead of one of their damage bonuses maybe?). That would involve a redo for whole weapon class. Not gonna happen. Quote: Then introduce a second tier of Bombers designed to use torpedoes (like a Kahnid version of the Purifier or something) that would do lots of damage to large targets, but little damage to small ones. It's called "Bomb launchers". Was idea, but poorly implemented. They need a serious overhaul. Quote: That way you would have the choice of which bomber you want to use. Yes, we could have choice of what we're fitting. Close-range anti-blob/capital weapon or all-range precise tool. Sadly they're offering two close-range weapons... -- Thanks CCP for cu

Chrocell	Posted - 2009.03.27 21:45:00 - [351] The only change I would make to SB is the ability to use a covert ops cloak. LetÆs change bombs! 1. Make them easier to build (cheaper) 2. Make them function like deployable smart bombs, damage over time. 3. Let them deploy from the rear. 4. Delay fire... Let me set the delay before it start exploding 5. If someone shoots it, it would release all its DPS at once over a larger radius 6. Give it an extremely small sig so it would be hard to snipe... i.e. make sure the person shooting it is damaged if it explodes. 7. They should damage each other. 8. CanÆt deploy them in bubbles. 9. Let hackers defuse!
SmokeyJones	Posted - 2009.03.27 22:13:00 - [352] Hey, I liked this idea. Theonly i have to add is maybe a bonus to Bombs. Maybe a bonus velocity to the Bombs. This i kind of weapon I love, but its not usefull at all.
Vaarun Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.27 22:54:00 - [353] Perhaps you could make a special type of launcher that was SB-only that incorporates many of the suggestions so far...a "CovOps Launcher". The prereqs to fit them include all of your current skills required to use Cruise missiles. With this special launcher, we can take the Rage/Javelin ammo types to extremes: extreme long-range ammo to emulate Cruise Missiles, and heavy-hitting short range missiles to emulate torpedos. All radius and missile velocity mods could be built into these new missiles. Heck, we know that missiles can modify ship velocity, why not build the bonuses into these missiles as well for short-range missiles, giving teh shosp teh ability to move faster? Loading the ammo then becomes a kind of script, but all launchers have to have the same class of ammo (short-range or long-range) This means people do not have to choose which type of launcher to use...just choose a type of ammo. Perhaps this is too easy... The launchers could also fit bombs which are smaller versions of the old bombs. "To bring order to chaos, one must bring chaos to its knees." -Vaarun
RC Denton	Posted - 2009.03.27 23:12:00 - [354] I like and support this idea. But in addition to the anti-battleship role I think bombers should have a guerilla warfare role as well. Paired up with a blackops ship to go attack POS and outpost targets. To that end I think they should get a dmg bonus when attacking fixed targets, or perhaps a mini-siege mode that allows them to do big dmg to POS, and get a tank bonus from POS guns. Ships should still be able to smack a bomber up, but by allowing them to be effective vs fixed targets like POSs and bridged in with a blackops ship I think you'd see alot of small/med roaming gang guerilla action.
RC Denton	Posted - 2009.03.27 23:14:00 - [355] I like and support this idea. But I think that bombers should also get an anti-POS/Outpost role. Paired up with a black ops I think they'd be very cool in small to medium gang guerilla warfare. I think they should have either a straight dmg bonus and tank bonus vs fixed targets like POS and outposts, or have something like a mini-siege mode that would give them the bonus with some drawback. They should still be vulnerable to ships, but this would allow a group of cov ops and a black ops to slip into the enemies rear areas and do effective dmg to their POSs and outposts.
Prometheus Exenthal Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.03.27 23:17:00 - [356] if bombers are being switched to ONLY torps & bombs, fix bombs, and allow them to use CO cloaks. thats all they need - MY LATEST VIDEO - BATTLE CRUISE
Wannabehero Absolutely No Retreat	Posted - 2009.03.27 23:22:00 - [357] It's heart-warming to see that stealth bombers have been receiving attention. But please CCP Chronotis, and whomever else might be reading, if you are going to do it, do it right. The cloaked velocity increase looks aces. It is exactly what the ship class needs, either that or a covert ops cloak, though in truth I do prefer the cloaked velocity increase. I'm kind of on the fence about the Torpedo change. While it would allow stealth bombers improved theoretical damage, they would be pretty much limited to effectiveness against Battleship sized targets and larger, with ~ 300 - 450 DPS and alpha's ~3000 - 3800. Against lone Battleship targets a gang of these stealth bombers would be terrifying, but against cruisers/Hacs DPS is going to be more on the scale of 20 - 60 DPS How about a role bonus of 100% damage from Cruise Missiles, much like the Sansha/Marauder bonus? The explosion radius bonus could be tweaked in accord, and the stealth bombers could still retain some firepower against smaller targets, though still reduce compared to Battleships. And could there be any bomb improvements too? They are pretty lackluster as a fleet tool at the moment. --- Click on the above post for more of my thoughts on this subject -- Don't harsh my mellow
Vall Kor Minmatar ZipZoom Kaboom	Posted - 2009.03.27 23:28:00 - [358] Originally by: Wannabehero It's heart-warming to see that stealth bombers have been receiving attention. But please CCP Chronotis, and whomever else might be reading, if you are going to do it, do it right. The cloaked velocity increase looks aces. It is exactly what the ship class needs, either that or a covert ops cloak, though in truth I do prefer the cloaked velocity increase. I'm kind of on the fence about the Torpedo change. While it would allow stealth bombers improved theoretical damage, they would be pretty much limited to effectiveness against Battleship sized targets and larger, with ~ 300 - 450 DPS and alpha's ~3000 - 3800. Against lone Battleship targets a gang of these stealth bombers would be terrifying, but against cruisers/Hacs DPS is going to be more on the scale of 20 - 60 DPS How about a role bonus of 100% damage from Cruise Missiles, much like the Sansha/Marauder bonus? The explosion radius bonus could be tweaked in accord, and the stealth bombers could still retain some firepower against smaller targets, though still reduce compared to Battleships. And could there be any bomb improvements too? They are pretty lackluster as a fleet tool at the moment. --- Click on the above post for more of my thoughts on this subject CCP hire this man and pay him in cookies. This is what a stealth bomber should be. Please oh please listen to these ideas. "By way of deception, thou shalt do war"
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2009.03.28 01:58:00 - [359] Originally by: Vall Kor CCP hire this man and pay him in cookies. This is what a stealth bomber should be. Please oh please listen to these ideas. Please don't listen to this idiot. Half of these changes worse than switching SB from Cruise to torps. -- Thanks CCP for cu
Bette Davis	Posted - 2009.03.28 02:34:00 - [360] Fitting Siege Launcher will result in the Bomber only making respected damage to large signature targets (like BS) but as they have not tank, it only makes sense if you swarm a BS with multiple Bomber. All other ships will have a easy time to kill a Bomber if they have to get close now. I suggest to ask yourself what ships should the Bomber be able to kill ? Should it be usefull in 1v1 ? It is now in some cases and if for example would get a signature bonus to kill smaller targets it would improve in the role to kill frigs/cruisers as a sniper. With Torpedos and speed improve it would be a welcome member of a fast moving interceptor/bomber gang that hunts down BS...because intis cannot do it alone. Which is a very cool Role indeed, i think. I also favor to decrease the decloak range if short range torpedos are to be fitted. Just my 2cent



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SAY NO TO TORPEDOS!

Yellow submarine complete with torpedoes!