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Winterreign
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Posted - 2009.03.25 16:38:00 -
[1]
This follows my original Posting over @
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1032703&page=1
I listed my idea over there on page 19 and the more I thought about the changes to ECM ships the more i began to realize that changing ECM itself was really what was required and the more I thought I was really on to somthing.
So rather then bury my post over in the other thread I would post here my proprosed changes and how they would effect different systems and modules. Though this is a Radical change to ECM makes ECM in general more benefitual to all ships but allows ECM specific ships to capitolize on it.
I'll explain each part and please keep an open mind and read though all of the proposed changes before i get shot out of the sky. But in all honesty i think that many of you will might find the idea very refreshing.
ECM stands for Electronic Counter Measures, the fact that in EVE what ECM means is removing a ship from combat for a 20 seccond. Your basic Jamming as oppossed to Electronic counter measures; Two things which don't go together.
There is no way to circumvent ECM Jamming you just have to wait out your cycle time. As with sensor dampening you can attempt to close the distance to overcome the effects of being Sensor dampened.
Redirecting ECM to a more intuitive roll with ECM working just like it's name sake.
First propossed change.
ECM Module and ECM-Linking Moduel
ECM
When you target an enemy model and utilize ECM it should lower your Signature radius VS that target by a certain amount. This should always be a Set amount depending on your jammer strength vs their sensor strength.
Further more if that target has you locked on, they stand a chance of Losing lock-on of your Ship only. They will not loose lock with all ships they have targeted. Just the one utilizeing ECM against them.
There is no Jammed penalty, they are not locked out for 20 secconds from targeting you they just loose lock-on. Re-aquiring you and the lock-on time, is penalty enough.
ECM modules have no range, if you can target them. You can use ECM against them. ECM is a defensive system and range isn't a factor.
In summery: Target ship has you locked. You target ship and use ECM against It. You have decreased sig radius vs that ship and that ship stands chance to loose lock on you every cycle.
Question: What happens if you use ECM against a ship that is not targeting you.
Answer: Nothing.
Question: Do multple ECM's stack?
Answer: Yes Multiple ECM's will stack to provide you incresed lower signature raidus vs that target and each module has a chance to disrupt targets lock every cycle. (Utlizing more then one ECM provides diminished returns on the Sig raidus as you continue to stack them)
Question: How does this change Faction ECM modules
Answer: All ECM modules provide the same signature raidus reduction vs target. Multi-ECM should possess a disrupt strength of 3 across the board and faction ECMs have disruption strength of 2 across the board except for the specific faction sensor type which will be 4.
ECM-Linking
ECM-Linking function exactly like all other linking Electronics. Thus utlize's your ships bonus's for ECM Strength (if any) on another freindly ship. ECM-Linking reduces target ships Signature Raidus by set amount.
ECM-Linking will not cause ships to loose lock on target ECM-Link'd ship and only reduce's a ships Signature Raidus to represent ECM making them a more difficult target.
ECM-Linking is short range with only 10km range (ECM ship bonus's to range can increase this up to 20-30km)
Question: Can I stack ECM-Linking Modules
Answer: Yes but each additional modules will provide dimisinished returns.
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Winterreign
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Posted - 2009.03.25 16:38:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Winterreign on 25/03/2009 16:46:41
Edited by: Winterreign on 25/03/2009 16:44:48
Edited by: Winterreign on 25/03/2009 16:38:59
Question: Will ECCM counter this Sig reduction effect?
Answer: Yes, ECM modules sig reduction bonus is based upon Jammer str vs Sensor strength. Higher your sensor strength the less effective your sig-reduction penalty will be verse's ECM and ECM-Linking ships
Next up Burst ECM
Burst-ECM functions alot like it's original incarnation by disrupting lock-on's of all ships with in range and due to the nature of Burst ECM further penalize's all ships with in range by reducing their Sensor Resolution. I think one needed change that needs to happen is that burst ECM should not warrant you getting concorded, however utlizeing a burst ECM will allow all ships effected to attack you. Burst ECM is limited to one module and still eat up healthy amounts of cap. Ship bonus's can be utlize's to reduce the cap used for Burst ECM
Question: If my corps at war, does this mean that I can sign on an alt not at war and utlize Burst ECM to disrupt the enemy
Answer: Yes, but all ships effected will have free reign to attack you and you will probably draw more argo then is healthy for you in well traveled systems but you will not be concorded. =)
ECM Drones
ECM drones will work fairly much as they do currently with a chance to disrupt lock-ons and a penalty to targets sensor resolution. Like the ECM modules there is no penalty lock-out. However ECM drones would be powerful in the fact that they disrupt all lock-on's that the target has locked. So ECM drones will have bigger penalties to Sensor resolution and smaller chances to disrupt.
ECCM
How does this effect ECCM? Not much as ECCM primarly raise's a targets sensor strenth. The higher your sensor strength the less effective ECM and ECM-linking modules are as the forumula for ECM and ECM-linking is Jamming Strength of ECM/ECM-Linking Modules vs Ships Sensor strength.
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What does all this mean? This means that ECM functions alot like the defensive system it was meant to be. These changes dramaticaly change the way the game is played. For some this is a hated thing, and many might beleive that this would reduce ECM modules and ECM ships to near uselssness with out the ability to suppress other ships. However in many ways ECM becomes even more effective ships will have to choose as ECM ships will be very effective at disrupting locks causing ships to have to keep attempting to lock onto them and doing less damage due to signature reducing effects all in keeping with hellishly effective ECM.
Additionaly you can provide ECM support via ECM-Linking by making making freindly ships take less damage due to signature radius reducing effects thus simulating ECM making your target a harder ship to hit. Almost turning ECM ships into command ship in the middle of the fray supporting the fleet.
And last but not least the ability to utlize close in ECM-Burst modules ECM drones point blank on enemy ships disrupting all lock-ons and blanketing the area with white-noise reducing ships sensor resolution's
I personaly find these idea's to be great and probably still need more tweaking to rough out the edges or stats, but none the less i think I am on the right path. Thoughts?
-Winter
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Colonel Xaven
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.25 16:50:00 -
[3]
Is ECM an endless forums story? *sigh*
Besides: You want ECM as a completely defensive tool? You should re-think your request of a re-re-design.
 Originally by: Winterreign
Question: What happens if you use ECM against a ship that is not targeting you.
Answer: Nothing.
Lol, no comment.
Proud member of RZR - Decadence. |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.03.25 16:58:00 -
[4]
Quoting myself from the same thread:
Originally by: Abrazzar
One method to balance ECM would be to change the functionality of it. Switch it from a chance based but binary effect to a always succeeding but relative effect.
Connect the seemingly arbitrary sensor strength with a ship stat that has actually an effect outside ECM calculations, like Max Locked Targets.
Calculation would then be: Jam Strength / Sensor Strength = Percentage by which Max Locked Targets is reduced
Jam strength stats would have to be rebalanced to fit to the new system.
This would make ECM more reliable, better to counter by ECCM and better in line with the other ewar modules that have a similar functionality.
Oh and just drop the activation amount limit of ECM bursts on the Scorpion to make it more viable. It'd be the poison for every spider tank.
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Ideas for: Mining
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Winterreign
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Posted - 2009.03.25 17:06:00 -
[5]
The problem as mentioend with ECM is that it dominates all forms of Electronic warfare cultivating a massive power vacume comparied to other factions Ewar abilties.
I think it's fair to reduce thus advantages to more in keeping with other factions Ewar but on the other hand make ECM a more viable option that's not limited to those ECM type ships and with out having to dump all your low slots into Signal distortion amps.
As a ECM operator myself with a rook/falcon i understand what the propossed changes will mean and beleive them to have a positive impact on the game as oppossed to all the hate that ECM tends to generate.
-W
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IceAero
Amarr
Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.03.25 17:19:00 -
[6]
My god...it's full of fail.
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GateScout
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Posted - 2009.03.25 17:29:00 -
[7]
Bring the falcon and ECM more in line with other recons and e-war. I think this is a great idea (really).
This means making the falcon faster and more agile and giving it the ability to do a bit of DPS.
ECM needs to become more like other ewar so it's not racially limited and chance based....or just get rid of it.
The proposed changes essentially make the falcon a kitsune with a CovOps cloak and a bit better range....nothing more.
"Brawler" falcon?  Come on....
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Winterreign
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Posted - 2009.03.26 05:52:00 -
[8]
Revised 1.1
ECM Modules
When active ECM modules lower your ships signature radius by a certain amount calculated (Jammer strength divided by Sensor strength up to a max of 50% effectiness per module)
This signature radus benefit varies depending on who is targeting you. The higher ships sensor strength is less effected by ECM in general.
Additionaly when ECM Modules utlized on target they have a chance to disrupt that targets lock-on of your ship.
There is no time penalty for re-aquiring lock-on. Your reduced Signature Radius gives you suffient bonus taking ships longer to lock on to your ship.
So defensivly ECM modules provide sig radius reduction of your ship vs all ships targeting you. Offensivly you have the chance to disrupt one target's lock-on of your ship only.
Multiple ECM's will stack multple reductions of your signature radius but suffer the stacking penalty. So with multiple ECM's it would be possible to stack your signature radius down to -70-85% verse's certain targets.
ECM-Linking functions as specified earlier by providing a reduced signature radius for freindly targets. Functions just like the above as if they were utilizing ECm themselfs but has no chance to disrupt target lock on's.
Burst ECM functions line above and Drone ECM functions like above.
Personaly i like the idea alot. But as mentioned may require further tweaking.
-W
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Zitus
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Posted - 2009.03.26 06:44:00 -
[9]
so.......
make ECM = Sensor Dampners....
Target slower and a chance to lose your target lock... that can be done with a dampner.
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Winterreign
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Posted - 2009.03.26 07:02:00 -
[10]
Sensor damps effect scan rez
propossed ECM changes effect signature radius which effects how much damage you take as well.
-W
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Van Dartea
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Posted - 2009.03.26 07:32:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Winterreign
Question: What happens if you use ECM against a ship that is not targeting you.
Answer: Nothing.
This also makes me cringe...
You system is too easily countered(i.e. don't lock the ECM ships) and at best it works as a way of keeping the 'jammer' safe as opposed to actually helping the group out at all.
As Colonel Xaven pointed out... you intend to make ECM completely defensive.
I'd be happy just making so that it removes locks and has it's cycle reduced to 10 seconds. Nothing fancy. Would also make up for the small ships lack of sensor strength and can be counter through either a sensor booster or a ECCM. With a slight increase in the power of sensor dampeners you might even seem more of that underused EWAR around.
Who knows... But honestly I think you are over complicating it.
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.03.26 11:44:00 -
[12]
It's got some upsides (they can still lock and shoot) which make ECM less frustrating but it's too easy for them to counter I think.
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Winterreign
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Posted - 2009.03.27 08:04:00 -
[13]
It can be mitigated sure, but how is it easly countered?
Utilizing x2 ECM-Links on a freindly ship would reduce Signature Raidus by -63% if the forumula was followed. That reduces a standard battle ship down to 185 sig radius and a cruiser down to 55 sig raidus.
How is that easily countered?
Target painters can mitigate that by adding 37.5% to that sig raidus of 185 or 55 depending on the ship.
But adding ECM-Links to interceptors or interceptors packing ECm modules will bring them back into the fray by being extremly hard targets to hit.
I didn't edit the first post, but if u saw the 2nd revision youd' see that if you nail someone with ECM you not only reduce your own signature radius against all enemies targeting you but you have a chance to disrupt the ECM's Victim's lock ons. (Not just for yourself) but all lock-ons.
The only real difference is that there is no lock out period (Jammed for 20 secconds) and that you can help mask your entire fleet.
If we get down to it you can vary the ECM result depending upon the success of the roll (ECM vs Sensor STR)
No success: You still get your sig reduction effect
Minor Success: Your ECM victim loose's lock-on with your ship only if they are targeting you.
Average success: Your ECm victim loose's lock-on with your ship and loose's another lock on.
Critical success: Target ECM victim loose's all current lock-ons
But i do want a more steady dependable feature for ECM which would make it nice.
I think it's one of the better ideas around for ECM, not overpowered, useful, dependable and great ECM opperators can play merry hell with opponents with out the "perma-jam" mentality.
-W
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