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Sebea
Bottomfeeders Science and Research
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Posted - 2009.03.28 08:20:00 -
[1]
Ok, so Ore, being the king of all mining syndicates, has a wide array of every thing possibly needed to mine.
Except the Gas Clouds.
With the introduction of T3, Gas mining becomes an important part of production, and as such needs a dedicated mining vessel to accomplish the task. None of the barges or exhumers has a hard point to fit the gas miner (even though a hulk stands up fairly well to some lesser sleeper spawns in the belts in wormholes), so they fail utterly at mining the gas.
Most Transports, Blockade Runners, and Haulers only have a single hard point to mount a gas miner on, so even though you CAN mine with them, its ridiculously inefficient. You can use any combat based ship, but lets be honest:
1) Its a mining profession. Your mining gas clouds, or harvesting them (same concept really). True dedicated miners can't field combat ships, because they've dedicated their time to piloting mining vessels.
2) Most combat ships can't hold enough cargo to actually be proper mining vessels. The gas is quite space consuming, and using anything combat related just doesn't cut it for efficient mining.
So the solution to the problem is simple, a pair of ships, that fit into the Barge and Exhumer category, a t1, and t2 variant (though even one would be nice) from ORE. Something able to mount at least 2 (thinking 2 for the t1, and 3 for the t2) gas miners with a cargo hold comparable to the covetor and mackinaw respectively, with ship attributes that are similar. A small drone bay on each (larger on the t2, maybe a flight of lights for the t1, flight of mediums for the t2) would round it out nice, as ORE would obviously see the need for defensive systems in the wormhole space.
These ideas are rough drafts, and only suggestions, but the need for the ships is definitely there, and since the mining craft in EVE has been short on lovin lately, these would be a nice addition.
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Arushia
Nova Labs
Empire Research
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Posted - 2009.03.28 08:47:00 -
[2]
I'm not sure a new set of ships is needed.
Just a new module 'Industrial Gas Harvester'', a Gas harvester equivalent of the Strip miner for barge-only use. And, like strip-miners, it would get the barge's ship bonus to yield.
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Sebea
Bottomfeeders Science and Research
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Posted - 2009.03.28 08:59:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Sebea on 28/03/2009 09:02:14
 Originally by: Arushia
I'm not sure a new set of ships is needed.
Just a new module 'Industrial Gas Harvester'', a Gas harvester equivalent of the Strip miner for barge-only use. And, like strip-miners, it would get the barge's ship bonus to yield.
Even this would be nice, because it could yield a higher amount, like normal strip miners do.
ANYTHING beats watching the gas pile up in pitiful amounts in your cargo hold.
EDIT: I suggested a new ship because in the t2 variety of mining barges, there is a specialized ship for each type of mining: Ore (Hulk), Ice (Mackinaw), and even a special barge just for mining Mercoxit (Skiff). Maybe just a single t2 version for Gas, as it seems to be a theme for ORE t2 ships to have a very focused ship for mining particular things.
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Dan Grobag
Caldari
Myon Decay
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Posted - 2009.03.28 13:45:00 -
[4]
Introduction of barge already killed any of the thinking you had to do when you decided to go mining, be it skill wise or fiting wise, I say no, bad idea.
Maybe create a t3 ore vessel that could get all sort of industrial bonus through it's subsystems then :)
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Gabi Angel
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Posted - 2009.03.28 16:17:00 -
[5]
I agree with your idea.
We dont need something big, we need a ship that can give us a gas harvesting bonus.
I can't see a more suitable ship class than the famous exhumers. A T2 class especialized in gas harvesting will be great.
These guys that dont see an use for it bashing the idea because they dont expent 2 hours to harvest a single cloud and see only a half of can full. Then they complain CCP for created a material need that is so expensive at market.
The relation time/profit in gas clouds are not realy profitable. The creation of this ship should help the time variable and incentive others to mine gas clouds.
/signed
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Sebea
Bottomfeeders Science and Research
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Posted - 2009.03.28 16:54:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Dan Grobag
Introduction of barge already killed any of the thinking you had to do when you decided to go mining, be it skill wise or fiting wise, I say no, bad idea.
Maybe create a t3 ore vessel that could get all sort of industrial bonus through it's subsystems then :)
So your saying that EVER OTHER SINGLE THING you can mine has a specialized ship to accomplish the task, EXCEPT Gas Clouds, and thats ok?
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.28 18:17:00 -
[7]
There has been ideas to give Procurer bonuses to Gas Harvesting.
I think that wouldn't be a bad idea...
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Thanks CCP for cu |
Rod Pliskin
United Industries LTD.
Shadow Empire.
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Posted - 2009.03.28 18:59:00 -
[8]
I haven't had too many problems with an Abaddon fitted with T2 Gas Harvesters yet. And it can tank some of the spawns pretty nicely, along with a couple lasers/drones to kill anything and core probe launcher. Seems more efficient than a Mining ship in this space.
Hell even a Maller works well enough (for those smaller wormholes) as long as the ships at the clouds don't aggro (if you warp to the cloud further away from where they spawn).
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Sebea
Bottomfeeders Science and Research
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Posted - 2009.03.28 19:37:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Sebea on 28/03/2009 19:46:50
Originally by: Rod Pliskin
I haven't had too many problems with an Abaddon fitted with T2 Gas Harvesters yet. And it can tank some of the spawns pretty nicely, along with a couple lasers/drones to kill anything and core probe launcher. Seems more efficient than a Mining ship in this space.
Hell even a Maller works well enough (for those smaller wormholes) as long as the ships at the clouds don't aggro (if you warp to the cloud further away from where they spawn).
I don't deny that you CAN do that, and that it DOES work, but, you can also mine regular minerals in those as well.
If you were going to mine, would you rather mine in an Apoc, or a Hulk?
A specialized Gas Harvester would mean not sitting in a pretty pink cloud, for 3 hours filling a cargo hold worth hauling around.
Also consider that in the case of wormholes, sizer matters in reverse. Bringing in a battleship isn't optimal, when you can easily tank sleepers in a hulk, so long as it stays the size of a frigate spawn (2 hulks is even better, 1 light flight each, 1 armor rep flight each).
If the only argument against the creation of the ship is that "you can do it in a battleship" then why were mining platforms ever created in the first place?
Originally by: Tonto Auri
There has been ideas to give Procurer bonuses to Gas Harvesting.
I think that wouldn't be a bad idea...
The two main problems with this are:
1) It would need mounting hard points for the gas cloud harvester. If they could even mount the gas cloud harvesters, there wouldn't be as much of an issue, but as is, they can't. None of the dedicated harvesting vehicles can mount Gas Harvesters (oh irony).
2) All the specialized Harvesters (Skiff, Mackinaw, Hulk = Mercooxit, Ice, Ore) were designed with prolonged deployment in unfriendly areas in mind. I can't think of an area that more defines that than Worm space. You could be there for days, weeks or months. Your ship systems should show that (like they do with the others of its kind).
T3 ships are ******ed right now, even if the market levels off, they will never be viable for anything but trophies because of the expense, caused by the many bottlenecks in the production sequence. One of the biggest bottlenecks, is in fact the gas collection. This is like being forced to mine Trit at 10 units every 30 seconds, or in bad situations, less, as its one of the most base components of the t3 ships.
This could also help boost the lagging drug market, which after the POS exploit nonsense, has absolutely been decimated. Its just that current gas mining is entirely too slow to ever be profitable, or even enjoyable.
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Kerc Kasha
Caldari
Valiant Research Associates
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2009.03.29 03:07:00 -
[10]
It would make more sense for the Syndicate to make such a vessel considering they do the majority of gas cloud harvesting(For boosters etc), doesn't really make sense for ORE to make a vessel for it.
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Sebea
Bottomfeeders Science and Research
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Posted - 2009.03.29 15:49:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kerc Kasha
It would make more sense for the Syndicate to make such a vessel considering they do the majority of gas cloud harvesting(For boosters etc), doesn't really make sense for ORE to make a vessel for it.
Really, who ever wants to build it, can build it, I just thing that from personal experience of the past 2 weeks gas mining, that its overwhelmingly needed.
My best attempts so far have been cargo expanded domi's, and even they, suck
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Myyona
Minmatar
Ataraxia Pharmacies
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Posted - 2009.03.29 17:06:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Myyona on 29/03/2009 17:07:42
Wow, two weeks. I have harvested gas for more than a year using tech 1 harvesters in low sec none the less.
It was not bad then, and it is even easier now.
If a ship with bonus abilities in relation with gas harvesting should be released, I would wish for it to be a faction ship of Syndicate kind. That means purchasable through the LP store of Syndicate corporations, and as such require the correct kind of effort to achieve.
SOE could get some kind of faction exploration vessel (with bonus for Analyzers and Codebreakers), Thukker Tribe a faction salvager boat, ORE some kind of faction mining barge and so on for all the side factions that currently have no faction ships.
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Nobody can do everything, but everybody can do nothing |
Some Advisor
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Posted - 2009.03.29 17:57:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Arushia
I'm not sure a new set of ships is needed.
Just a new module 'Industrial Gas Harvester'', a Gas harvester equivalent of the Strip miner for barge-only use. And, like strip-miners, it would get the barge's ship bonus to yield.
umm, there is T2 of Gas harvesting modules available trough invention.
i got myself a nice set,1 good invention lastst to fit 2 ships.
Gas Cloud Harvesting 5 required, and its like using a mackinaw.. you get 2 units of gas per harvester for +10 sec cycle time.
You even get some cycle reduction bonus if you use Orca with something :P
so. every 27 sec i have 10 gas :P
Using Thorax/Jetcan atm. Others seem to use Ospreys (up to 1700m¦ so 170 units) or maybe an exequror, but only 4 Slots.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.29 18:03:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Sebea
Originally by: Tonto Auri
There has been ideas to give Procurer bonuses to Gas Harvesting.
I think that wouldn't be a bad idea...
The two main problems with this are:
1) It would need mounting hard points for the gas cloud harvester. If they could even mount the gas cloud harvesters, there wouldn't be as much of an issue, but as is, they can't. None of the dedicated harvesting vehicles can mount Gas Harvesters (oh irony).
2) All the specialized Harvesters (Skiff, Mackinaw, Hulk = Mercooxit, Ice, Ore) were designed with prolonged deployment in unfriendly areas in mind. I can't think of an area that more defines that than Worm space. You could be there for days, weeks or months. Your ship systems should show that (like they do with the others of its kind).
1) As with any other barges, you get a dedicated, highly efficient Gas Harvester module, and fair bonus to it on Procurer to make it worth using small, agile ship that could GTFO from the cloud when cavalry arrives rather than using a Hulk for the same role and loosing that behemoth under fire. (I know about "mining in align & such, thanks)
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Thanks CCP for cu |
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.29 18:05:00 -
[15]
Accidentally clicked send... well, I lost my thought anyway, so no sneaky editing. Anyway, that's mostly a speculation/expectation, no reason to catch it again, even if it come back.
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Thanks CCP for cu |
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.29 18:48:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tonto Auri
There has been ideas to give Procurer bonuses to Gas Harvesting.
I think that wouldn't be a bad idea...
Nope, it suck as is now :)
A dedicated ORE barge for gas would be a nice thing.
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente
Shadowsun Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.03.29 19:03:00 -
[17]
Isn't the Skiff the gas miner...? Or have I gotten this wrong?
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ghost st
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Posted - 2009.03.29 20:47:00 -
[18]
Edited by: ghost st on 29/03/2009 20:48:17
I dont think a dedicated mining ship is needed.
Personally id rather see gas mining be a little more like mercoxit mining. (with the gas clouds hurting ppl again ) And the gas harvesting skill reducing the chance of receiving damage from the cloud.
Id also like gas mining to have a 'refining' process before it get reacted. This way low-end gas clouds (the ones you find from empire) would take up the same amount of space, but you end up with less stuff after refining. With medium and high end clouds yielding more usable material per m3.
This way trying to get gas in 'easy mode' would have less yield than getting it from a harder site/wormhole. (Which is wrong with current mining tbh, why mine in 0.0 if you can get just as much without the risk in empire)
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.03.29 21:36:00 -
[19]
Improved gas harvesting -> more gas harvesting -> More supply -> lower price -> same/lower profit/hour.
Not needed IMO.
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Phidell
Chaos Reborn
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Posted - 2009.03.29 21:39:00 -
[20]
Mercoxit harvesting uses the skiff... A dedicated vessel.
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Sebea
Bottomfeeders Science and Research
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Posted - 2009.03.30 08:09:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Sebea on 30/03/2009 08:10:41
Originally by: ghost st
Personally id rather see gas mining be a little more like mercoxit mining. (with the gas clouds hurting ppl again) And the gas harvesting skill reducing the chance of receiving damage from the cloud.
Ok, but mercoxit, a SINGLE ORE TYPE, has a dedicated harvesting vehicle, the Skiff. This is because t2 items use it as a base component, and a vehicle was needed to facilitate the dangers involved in mining the ore.
Dangers of a different nature are involved in Gas mining, but not any less threatening. Gas has now become a base production material, so a vehicle should be introduced to facilitate its harvesting.
Also, I like the idea of damage, but mitigating it could be done like its done with the skiff, with level in Exhumer being the deciding factor.
Originally by: ghost st
This way trying to get gas in 'easy mode' would have less yield than getting it from a harder site/wormhole. (Which is wrong with current mining tbh, why mine in 0.0 if you can get just as much without the risk in empire)
I may be misunderstanding you, but are you saying a dedicated gas harvester would be mining gas in "easy mode"?
So is a hulk mining in Easy mode? No, its mining in efficient mode. If this is your belief, then all mining related vehicles should simply be removed from game.
And as to mining in 0.0, yea, it pretty much is that way already due to loot drops and refine rates from NPC crap from missions. Mining as a profession is currently pretty low on the career scale if you hadn't noticed.
Why mine, when i can run 20 lvl 4 missions, get all the bounties, all the mission pay outs, and a metric butt ton of refined ore from the loot?
What were talking about here is relieving a strained bottleneck in the production line, via harvesting in a more efficient manner, not "mining on easy mode". I'm not asking to move the clouds to a safe location (easy mode), I'm asking for ships to use in low sec, 0.0, and wormspace specifically for the use of mining Gas (because all the gas worth mining is in these dangerous areas). I'm not sure how that can be remotely construed as "easy mode".
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Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2009.03.30 11:13:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Phidell
Mercoxit harvesting uses the skiff... A dedicated vessel.
Kinda. Would be nice to have a yield bonus though.
Maybe give the Covetor a gas bonus? Currently not alot of point to the Covetor since with just a tiny bit more training you can use a Hulk. Would seperate the two a bit.
Taxman VII: Kingdom of Vlad
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Frood
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Posted - 2009.03.30 13:41:00 -
[23]
Curently using a Myrmidon:
[HIGHS]
5x Gas Cloud Harvester II's
1x Core Probe launcher I
[MIDS]
4x Large Shield Extender II's
1x EM Ward
[LOWS]
6x Cargo Expander II's
Chews away quite nicely on the gas clouds and the masses of shield HP's mean you can ignore sleeper frig spawns while your hammerhead II's zip about popping them one by one :)
About 40 mins of harvesting time fills the cargo hold.
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Lateraal
Free Lapland
The Kadeshi
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Posted - 2009.03.30 16:19:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Lateraal on 30/03/2009 16:20:37
iam useing a carrier
i can go afk and grab a coke and not worry about my cargo cap or damage done.
dont think those fitt in holes tho.
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Gabi Devil
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Posted - 2009.04.04 18:21:00 -
[25]
Would be good have a bonus to decrease the cycle time like ice mining.
Expend almost 2 hours to finish 1 cloud in a high sec wh.
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Some Advisor
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Posted - 2009.04.04 20:02:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Gabi Devil
Would be good have a bonus to decrease the cycle time like ice mining.
Expend almost 2 hours to finish 1 cloud in a high sec wh.
Orca reduces cycletime, not sure if thos ewarfare modules work on battlecruiser for bonus or orca specific ^^
i need like 27 sec per cycle for gas harvest II instead 40 :)
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