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ECM Ship II - Looking at better defined roles

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 10 post(s)
Vigaz	Posted - 2009.03.31 11:00:00 - [1] Scorpion û Widow I donÆt understand why we cannot have the right progression from T1 to T2. Can we have the 5th launcher removed from Widow to get the same ECM optimal bonus of the new Scorpion? After all itÆs the same ship with 800M ISK cloaking feature. Rook: Rook doesn't need missile velocity bonus ! please consider to add 5 % resistances per level.
Vigaz	Posted - 2009.03.31 11:50:00 - [2] Originally by: TZeer Originally by: Vigaz Scorpion û Widow I donÆt understand why we cannot have the right progression from T1 to T2. Can we have the 5th launcher removed from Widow to get the same ECM optimal bonus of the new Scorpion? After all itÆs the same ship with 800M ISK cloaking feature. Rook: Rook doesn't need missile velocity bonus ! please consider to add 5 % resistances per level. What`s the point with a Widow that does the same as the falcon? Just cant warp cloaked. Take away it`s damage and you are left with a ****ty ship with no real purpose. No real purpose? sniper ECM with cloak and no target delay(like a t1 Scorpion but with cloak -> that's the BO field). Enemy FC: feel free to call my Widow primary... ops it's cloaked. once the battle begin declock and use the surprise effect. Try on your own to fight at zero with a sub-capital ship of 800-900M value. with less tank then any common t1 BS. The Op is telling us that is better to leave the Scorpion as ECM sniper due to its low agility/DPS etc... so a Milion ISK ship with almost the same attributes should be in the front line? I hope to be in grid for the KM if it will happen. So at the end, cheaper Scorpion can sit @ 150-200km while high price Widow have to stay into close range?
Vigaz	Posted - 2009.03.31 13:19:00 - [3] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Without any other rigs or modules fitted with max skills, the BZ-5 (caldari jammer) will have an optimal range of 48km and falloff of 53km with a strength of 11.25 to gravimetric. The same bonuses are applied to the Rook. 48km optimal range + 53km falloff and you think that Rook needs missile velocity bonus to reach 120/130km? Why? if u want to stay into the limit of falloff (so why flying a Rook and not a Falcon?) you need just to add 1 rig to reach 100Km with Rook. Can someone explain me the reason for a drone bay (short range) and a missile velocity bonus (long range) at the same time? To protect the Rook against inty is a no-sense. (a ceptor has 8-14 points... just use a racial/multi jammer, problem solved @ 90% at the first cycle).
Vigaz	Posted - 2009.04.01 13:58:00 - [4] Originally by: something somethingdark Right this is aproximatly what i feel it should look like max skills no aditional mods/rigs racial jammer ship \| ecm optimal \| targeting range \| strength (1=best) bbird \| 80km optimal \| dont care \| 3 rook \| 120km optimal \| 160km \| 1 falcon \| 80km optimal \| 160km \| 3 scorp \| 160km optimal \| 125km \| 2 and for giggles hers the widow (our new ecm overlord) widow \| 160km optimal \| 125km \| 1 propper calculations available when you offer me a job Widow dosent have a optimal ECM range bonus.... it's a close range BS without the ability to proper fit Torp launcher T2 (if u wanna use torp you can use Faction launchers or no tank at all). Scorpion has same hull and its a long range BS (cannot be a short range due to its bad agility, and very large size -> quotation from CCP) Widow is just a suicidal short range BS.
Vigaz	Posted - 2009.04.01 16:38:00 - [5] Edited by: Vigaz on 01/04/2009 16:39:05 Originally by: Gypsio III Originally by: Baudolino Falcon with damage and drones? Who comes up with this crap. Falcon is paper thin- it`s like the stealth bomber- if someone targets it- it`s dead. Current Falcons are paper-thin because they have no tank fitted. It's quite straightforward to get over 30k EHP on a Falcon (while retaining 5x ECM), putting it at similar EHP levels to any another tanked force recon. You can do it on a Rook as well, although you'll have no PG to fit any weapons afterwards. PG boost needed there. Could u please post falcon fit to reach 30k EHP? meanwhile let me post a sample Rapier fit (I'm not a Rapier pilot... so forgive me for that... just try to compare with the high tank capability of the new Falcon): Short version: Speed 2000m/s 29k EHP 286 DPS 3x Web covertop cloaking Full version: Low: 1x damage control t2 1x power diag t2 2x overdrive t2 Med: 2x LSE t2 1x MWD t2 3x Web t2 high: 3x 425 t2 û I dunno what is the best ammo... 286 with Hail M 1x Covertop cloak Rig: 2x core defence field extender Drones: 3x Hammerhead t2 2x Hobgoblin t2 no implant - no booster - skills @ 5
Vigaz	Posted - 2009.04.01 17:16:00 - [6] Originally by: Polinus Originally by: Vigaz Edited by: Vigaz on 01/04/2009 16:39:05 Originally by: Gypsio III Originally by: Baudolino Falcon with damage and drones? Who comes up with this crap. Falcon is paper thin- it`s like the stealth bomber- if someone targets it- it`s dead. Current Falcons are paper-thin because they have no tank fitted. It's quite straightforward to get over 30k EHP on a Falcon (while retaining 5x ECM), putting it at similar EHP levels to any another tanked force recon. You can do it on a Rook as well, although you'll have no PG to fit any weapons afterwards. PG boost needed there. Could u please post falcon fit to reach 30k EHP? meanwhile let me post a sample Rapier fit (I'm not a Rapier pilot... so forgive me for that... just try to compare with the high tank capability of the new Falcon): Short version: Speed 2000m/s 29k EHP 286 DPS 3x Web covertop cloaking Full version: Low: 1x damage control t2 1x power diag t2 2x overdrive t2 Med: 2x LSE t2 1x MWD t2 3x Web t2 high: 3x 425 t2 û I dunno what is the best ammo... 286 with Hail M 1x Covertop cloak Rig: 2x core defence field extender Drones: 3x Hammerhead t2 2x Hobgoblin t2 no implant - no booster - skills @ 5 You realize that rapier has the signature of a Battleship? With MWD or without?
Vigaz	Posted - 2009.04.02 08:45:00 - [7] Widow on Sisi If the role must be short range BS with ECM, I think it is better to check the ECM bonus on the Widow. Sisi: Widow has 25% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength per BO level -> 125% @ level 5 (rank 10 - 2,1M SP from level 4 to level5) Rook and Falcon have 30% bonus per Recon level -> 150% @ level5 (rank 6 - 1,2M SP from level 4 to level5). TQ: Falcons/Rooks have the same Strength bonus of the Widow (20% per level). 5% more for the Widow ECM bonus (TQ 20% <-> Sisi 25%) it's not enough imo for balancing ECM role. This short range BS needs at least to be in line with Falcons and Rooks (it's a slow fat BS, close range but with less ECM strenght than a 5xtimes cheaper Falcon?)
Vigaz	Posted - 2009.04.02 15:23:00 - [8] Originally by: Gypsio III When I get on Sisi later I'll have a look at the balance between damper-Scorp and ECM Scorp at fleet ranges again. Carnifex seems to think that ECM Scorp is sensible again though. But my other concern still seems to be valid. What is the motivation to fly a Rook over a Falcon? Both seem to have the same ECM range and strength. As an ECM pilot, your main concern is ECM, not DPS, and so the superior DPS of the Rook is fairly inconsequential, particularly given the immense tactical utility of the covops cloak. I still can't help but think that the Rook should get ECM that is slightly stronger or longer-ranged than the Falcon to make up for the immensely powerful covops cloak. Also, sufficient PG for the Rook to fit a rack of HMLs, MWD and 1600 plate would be necessary - otherwise the first thing to go is the HMLs, leaving you with no DPS advantage over the Falcon anyway. Sisi Rook it's better than Tq rook imo. less range - more dps. Still I prefer to see a 5% resists than 10% missile velocity bonus. An higher ECM bonus I dont think is needed, but of course better than 10% missile velocity bonus. It's not clear if there is a plan to keep the idea of Rook @ 40-60km. If not, I think CCP should remove the drone bay (it's a long range Caldari cruiser!) and add a kin damage/RoF to the missile system. Otherwise just change the missile velocity bonus to something more useful @ 40-60Km. For HAMs, Rook needs better PG (MWD and buffed tank) as stated by Gypsio (HAMs not HMLs typing error I guess).
Vigaz	Posted - 2009.04.07 15:45:00 - [9] After testing a bit on sisi: Rook: I like the sisi modifications. Rook has an improved DPS (drones + RoF bonus). ECM range is still adequate (50/60km) for small gangs. Falcon: ECM Range has been decreased a lot (in TQ it's used as Uber ECM sniper boat). The new drone bay add same DPS, but I think it could have 3 hardpoints for missile launchers and 1 for turrets. I dunno if the sisi Falcon description is wrong, but there is a RoF bonus and only 1 launcher point, that's lame (switch the bonus to hybrid then). Scorpion: ECM optimal range is too low compared to TQ. My suggestion is finally to put in line this BS with others tier1, remove ECM optimal range bonus, add 1 launcher point and add 5% cruise/torp RoF/velocity bonus. Also sig radius/velocity/agility/scan res should be checked (480 Sig radius is too much imo for a tier1, even with same ECM capabilities). Widow: Fix the tier1 attributes (Scorpion) then apply the same progression of the other BOs. There is a discussion running for BO changes, imo fixing Tier1 is the first step. Also considering that Widow has already 5 launcher (scorpion +1) and RoF bonus + ECM strength bonus (no ECM optimal bonus on the Widow).
Vigaz	Posted - 2009.04.10 16:54:00 - [10] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Hey Folks, Quick updates on changes coming to sisi for testing over the weekend: Scorpion we changed the bonus back to 20% ECM optimal range per level. Still means a range reduction due to the base jammer stat changes but will give you more ECM accuracy at longer range. Widow The ECM strength bonus has been increased to 30% as its focus is short to medium range. We will respond further to the feedback from the last few pages later on. Sisi Widow: Caldari Battleship Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to cruise and siege missile launcher rate of fire and 10% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo velocity per level Black Ops Skill Bonus: 25% bonus to ECM target jammer strength and multiplies the cloaked velocity by 125% per level Is this temporary due to the Sisi new build or I miss something?

Vigaz	Posted - 2009.06.09 09:26:00 - [11] I think Falcon new range is fine. But the 10M3 drone bay and 10Mbits bandwidth are just wrong. Recon drone bandwidth summary: Pilgrim 50Mbits Rapier 40Mbits Arazu 40Mbits Falcon 10Mbits ??!?!

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