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RougeOperator
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
743
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 02:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
The docking rights shut out is terrible. The devs should be ashamed for not seeing why.
Its DOA idea. Turning off station services and having station guns shoot is fine. But this bad on in many ways.
Im not going to get into the whys and what not. I have already gone over a lot of that ages ago.
But this no docking crap goes live. I think im pretty much done with this game. Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
RougeOperator
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
746
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 04:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
My major concern here is that they are making these changes for FLUFF RP reasons.
Which although fun, are terrible places to start from a perspective of game play and game balance. Though they should be consider as to how rules and elements of gameplay interact with RP, RP should not dictate a decision overriding balance. Station lockout just pretty much craps all over gameplay and the way FW works. They are making it freaking Null Sec Light which is and insult to lowsec players.
If you want to talk about this, militia is supposed to be a bunch of privateers not a freaking real military. So those saying stuff like front lines this and that make me LOL.
Also station lock out is not incentive for anything other then to leave FW and lowsec space. Its a disincentive to even bother joining FW.
FW is supposed to be a good place for people to go that just want to PvP or newer players to come in and get some fights without having to be in a major alliance. Station lock out pretty much craps all over some safety nets new pvpers and players should have.
Look I can write papers about why this is a bad idea. But its freaking moronically stupid to have station lockouts in low sec. Thats something the belongs in null.
Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
RougeOperator
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
746
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 02:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:Any game mechanic that makes it harder to operate under that mechanic but easier to leave is a flawed game mechanic. Why should I place my corp at a disadvantage to pirates that can dock in the stations I can't?
This right here is a major flaw with docking restrictions, crap.
This whole thing is not very well thought out.
It needs to be put back on the drawing board and something else thought up.
I will never be in the PUNISHMENT IS INCENTIVE CAMP. Its not, you cant incentive anything with punishment. You make the rewards worth it instead. Are we really talking about consequences here or are we talking about punishment.
They are basically going to turn FW into a second job. Null sec light. Which is bull.
I mean rather then making us want to run plexs cause they are fun. Instead they are saying run plexs or else. Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
RougeOperator
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
746
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 02:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:RougeOperator wrote:This whole thing is not very well thought out. It was very well thought out on the forums months ago.
You have amazing low standards for what is well thought out then.
This comes off as RP fluff more then good gameplay mechanics. Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
RougeOperator
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
750
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 22:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
Well its clear that CCP wants to basically kill FW. The goal being FW light.
I could put up with most of the other not well thought out and implemented stuff. But the station lockout is a deal breaker.
Maybe its just me but I tend to think the goal should be to make gameplay interesting and fun. That is not what the road ccp wants to go down in seems. They are in Punishment mindset and more high entry barriers.
Account canceled. Luckily i only paid 3 months in this time instead a year like last time. Was a wise move.
I dont even have the will to log in anymore. Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
RougeOperator
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
750
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 23:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
SigmaPi wrote:RougeOperator wrote:... Maybe its just me but I tend to think the goal should be to make gameplay interesting and fun. That is not what the road ccp wants to go down in seems. They are in Punishment mindset and more high entry barriers. ... The logistics involved with invading hostile space are some of the only really enjoyable aspects about nullsec. It's a damn challenge (as well it should be) and I'm honestly looking forward to it. Right now you just **** around all over the place with no care in the world, and now you actually have to consider where you're going and what you're doing? I guess I don't know 100% how I feel about the lock out, but I'm sure as hell gonna give it a try instead of ragequitting.
It should not go live until people have tested it thoroughly on sisi sigma. But they are steamrolling this crap out without much testing.
Once something is implemented its hard to take it back. Thats the problem. Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
RougeOperator
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
751
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 00:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
When the fun created by the NEW SHINY stuff in the expansions ends after a month we will be stuck with how bad this is it will be too late.
Obvious problems being if one faction dominates a zone.
FW is not like 0.0 its full of casual or semi casual players.
Calling it now people will realize how dumb it all was a few months from now. Even those talking about how great the fighting is right now. That wont last people.
No one is looking at the longview on this. Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
RougeOperator
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
752
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 01:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
What we have to look forward too now is worse stagnation in FW then we had before.
Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
RougeOperator
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
752
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 06:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Silence iKillYouu wrote:
Wait and see.
How about NO.
Im sick of that "wait and see line." I have seen so many games and MMOs die because the fanbase took this stance. After so many horrible games this year and decisions by game companies this year that make CCPs INFERNO launch honestly look amazingly good by comparison that "WAIT AND SEE" approach is complete rubbish now. Its got no legs anymore.
Most of use are savvy enough or work with games and know when something is a bad Idea.
I have yet to see anything good from taking that type of stance on anything.
Im looking not at the short term this new stuff will give us. Im also looking at the end game. And also the new freaking entry barriers that this type of crap puts in place on the newer players is crazy. Its so unfriendly too new players entering the action its not even funny.
Im a fan of good solid gameplay good solid stuff that encourages people to take risks. Like good rewards for plexing and or fighting. And this is not it. This is utter crap and poorly thought out endgame content all over it.
CONSEQUENCES, yeah ok the this is a pretty shallow argument as taking a ship out and fighting with it is consequence enough. If CCP things docking games are a problem they should make the aggression timers longer. There is your consequence.
A better idea to create more actiong was to give FW players better insurance payouts for losing ships in FW space. Rememeber how many larger fights there were when losing a BS thanks to insurance wasn't that bad. I say they should have approached FW with carrots not sticks. They should be doing things that make people say, HEY let me take out my ship. Not have people move their stuff to Highsec for safety.
EDIT: And the real problem here is that the stuff we learned about at fanfest was more then likely under way in some stage of development. And that is honestly way to late for those of us hearing about it for the first time to really get our teeth into it and see how it tastes. Or how it works in action. Or to say hey CCP dont waste man hours and money on bad ideas.
When it comes down to it we are still in the discussion stage of it as players. While CCP is already seemingly full bore ahead on it. With the feeling they are now doing something with FW just to say they did something without a full real consideration of what the FW community really wants and needs then to work on. They just decided to slap NULL sec concepts onto FW and that is just wrong. Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
RougeOperator
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
753
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 07:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:What we are getting is FW as seen through the eyes of null .. since changes are 99% identical to the Fanfest presentation it must have been planned based on feedback from the pure null CSM .. in that light it is understandable that it reeks of what "they know". Sad part is that it means the Devs responsible for it also has no experience with/in FW if they have leaned so heavily on the 'knowledge' of the CSM (and probably their beloved metrics). Increasing insurance payouts for ships lost in FW space ... hmmmm. Actually a pretty nifty idea, proper pirates would come around more often and tedious ISK gathering to sustain the war effort would be marginalized .. I think I like that
Yeah we used to have better fights back when people in fw could easily replace lost ships. Ships lost in FW can be insured for cost would create a good incentive to bring out cooler ships and be in FW and fight in low. Also fits RP to be somewhat subsidized by the state you are fighting for indirectly. But it was just to highlight that there were many options on the table they did not look at.
I think you are right that most of what we are getting was not actually something from the FW perspective as a whole. It reeks of null influence. While taking a glorious dump on many things FW players wanted. They wanted their time spent in FW to mean something. Turning it into a grind fest does not add meaning to what we do. There in is the trick that is being played on us. They are saying the meaning is in keeping from getting locked out. When simply shutting of station services would have the same effect but not be retroactively harshly punitive against players. They want to pretend that station lock out is the meaning when you could have had it be anything like Navy spawns that help out in fights or substantial bonuses to ratting and or exploration site spawns or something. Forcing those of use that want a casual pvp zone to have to have logistics chains like a null alliance to work. Instead of us being able to stash ships in a system we want to fight over is insulting.
The station lockout is silly. Its flawed just from the fact its not applied to to neutrals in some way as well. If there was some honest thought on this lock out stuff they would have made it standings based as well. Dont have a 3.0 standing with amarr. Sorry cant dock etc. -10 pie sorry cant doc here. But im against station lock out in low sec period.
I can see that they already had this stuff in the works and planned most likely before fanfest. I was told by people (Including Hans) then to pretty much "wait and see" when i was up in arms about what i was hearing then. Thing is they had DATES set for the expansion and they were announcing stuff at fanfest. Odds were high that they were going to implement the stuff they were talking about and it was not just talk of ideas at that point. I doubt that there was going to be much chance to change the direction they were going with this. They had already decided what they were going to do.
EDIT: this will also kill small scale pvp, enjoy the blob warfare that will become the norm. And im talking null like blob warfare. Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
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RougeOperator
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
754
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Posted - 2012.05.13 23:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
SigmaPi wrote:Or the revival, perhaps?
Sigma, explain how this leads to a revival? I want some detailed reasoning as to how.
Cause All i see is tracks being laid for it to be null sec light. Needing logistic chains and super blobs is where this leads cause we already see that in Null. And they are overlaying Null over FW. Instead of making FW its own experience they are just making it a variant of null sec style game play long run.
All i see is your options being limited high sec and null sec variants of play as opposed to the old High, Low, Null.
They are taking three different ways to play and distilling it too only two ways to play the game. Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
RougeOperator
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
758
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 02:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
Vordak Kallager wrote:RougeOperator wrote:SigmaPi wrote:Or the revival, perhaps? Sigma, explain how this leads to a revival? I want some detailed reasoning as to how. Cause All i see is tracks being laid for it to be null sec light. Needing logistic chains and super blobs is where this leads cause we already see that in Null. And they are overlaying Null over FW. Instead of making FW its own experience they are just making it a variant of null sec style game play long run. All i see is your options being limited high sec and null sec variants of play as opposed to the old High, Low, Null. They are taking three different ways to play and distilling it too only two ways to play the game. RO, I know the "doom and gloom" approach is your trademark, but you blowing this way out of proportion in my opinion. The only resemblance this has to nullsec is the fact that system occupancy/sovereignty now means something beyond RP reasons. The Nullsec sov-system, with timed Structure grinds creates an environment where there are alarm-clock ops in which the side with the strongest blob wins. The Inferno FW sov-system, lacking the timed Structure grinds of Nullsec which are replaced with ship-type limiting, fast-respawning Plexes and the instantly vulnerable Bunker bust, is going to inspire a lot of fast, mobile, multi-system guerrilla warfare. Your fleet is outnumbered? Split up, plex in adjacent systems, force their fleet to split their forces as well, catch what you can and vanish before the hammer can land. I see that the Bunker Busting system might engender the Blob, but the fact that it goes immediately vulnerable without having some kind of RF timer will be very helpful to the attacker. I think the Bunker HP should be decreased, though, since I feel most of the fighting for a system will/should take place in the plexing-stage and not in the final Bunker bust. As for the Station Lockout thing, plunk down a small tower with a Ship Maintenance Array. vOv It won't be impossible for the Amarr/Caldari to fight back. Sure, it will be tough and it'll require cooperation and effort on their part, but honestly, I think it will be a good catalyst to inspire cooperation/effort on their part, an element they are sorely lacking.
I have yet to be wrong yet Vordak. Its not "doom and gloom". Its like i have a crystal ball due to years of experience or something.
its exactly like nullsec, everyone is going to know when a system is vulnerable and when the bunker fight is etc. This is not diffrent. It boils down into knowing when stuff is going to flip etc. And the way to fight effectively is going to mirror NULL. Or you will fail getting anywhere.
The fact you are saying they JUST NEED TO COOPERATE is pretty telling. You do realize that means bigger blobs. It means the break down of the rag tag nature of FW in favor of an organized system and way of fighting similar to.....NULL SEC.
Your post just reinforces indirectly what I have been saying. Really sit down and think about it for a second man. Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
RougeOperator
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
758
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 04:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:The current system was to supposedly to be a template for a sovereignty revamp, FW was once upon a time a null guinea pig .. but CCP chickened out. Remember all the talk prior to Dominion about CCP wanting null sov to be lots of smaller objectives and multiple targets spread across entire systems and/or constellations .. now look at FW again. The only good thing about this coming ****-storm is that CCP will probably try to push/sell it to the null-bears only to be brutally shot down and mutilated in all digital media for wanting to destroy the sandbox (top entry on the null resist-change lobbys list of talking points) at which point we might be able to ret through to them
As for it being BlobVille; Say you Shakorites have all station systems which will be a piece of PIE with the current mechanics (Actual FW balancing work wont hit until SoonGäó). Our plexing crews have to mobilise out of high-sec -> meaning we need to be ships appropriate for the plexes we plan to take as we have no reships -> most likely cruisers for med/maj with 2-3 dessies/frigs for minors. - No matter what size plex we enter, chances are we will be met with more numbers of appropriate size as you Shakorites have at most one jump to reship. You merely leave a few redundant (in fleet terms) frigs behind on timers while the horde moves in unison .. perpetually outnumbering the enemy .. it is the way it works now and lockouts will reinforce that trend.
We have had plenty of cooperation but it is kind of hard to motivate people to participate in a bicycle race when they can see the competition are issued mopeds .. yes, difference in ease-of-plexing is that great. Every week we put in is countered by a few days .. and that is when plexing crew numbers are even (which they only were 20 months ago or so).
Exactly
The fact is CCP is not realistically accounting for human nature and how it will play out according to human nature. I cant help but think they have a pie in the sky idea of how it SHOULD work. Not how people will actually play the game in the end. I think your example is very close to how we will see stuff play out.
Its such a huge red flag Im having a hard time seeing how CCP can miss it. Do they not have anyone playing devils advocate for stuff when they have these meetings.
The really need to have a someone there to be the black rain cloud on some of this stuff. Or at the very least if there is someone there doing that they need to take it seriously.
Or maybe a check list. How will this work short term. How will this look a year from now with this structure. What is the worst case that could come from this. ETC. Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
RougeOperator
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
760
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Posted - 2012.05.14 09:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:[quote=Lock out]
I'm not interested in sov warfare so I'd likely just go pie again or just start roaming in null sec for random fights.. The station locks out are kinda a deal breaker for me , but I'll at least give it a try for a short time see where it goes.
The sov warfare way of thinking is already setting in if you haven't already noticed.
Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
RougeOperator
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
760
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 11:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
Lock out wrote:Mutnin wrote:1st off I will say you are a lucky **** to get that Navy Geddon out the other day in structure and the friendly carriers were totally unexpected from us. We jumped into behind you guys started shooting stuff and in comes 3 or 4 friendly carriers and we were like wtf is this.. Personally, I wasn't happy when they engaged again after allowing you guys time to set up bait & trap. I pretty much figured that was gonna go wrong.. lol We had the counter prepared first time too, just that Tek was too drunk and grabbed 150 LO instead of 250 so he couldn't light cyno (yeah, we're pro like that) Also, till I reached 4 km from gate I was resigned to dying. Then I jumped out with gcc with like 20 % struct left and on the other side gateguns managed to put me in 8 % struct left before I warped off . Then I had to bounce 5 min to regen half shields and when I've heard our triage is on field I started shouting at Andar that I'm coming to ***** and he needs to rep me as soon as I land, which he did . Unfortunately our tackling abilities were also sunk in alcohool. Oh, and on a sidenote, am really lucky indeed that I got out, I have fair few ngeddons,and for that evening I picked the really pimped one (c-type enam, a-type membranes, etc) Back on topic, the simple fact that you and I agree on something should raise a signal that things in FW are about to go terribly wrong
You can see there is a lot of people agreeing with each other that normally would troll the crap out of each other under different circumstances.
That might be the writing on the wall here. Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
RougeOperator
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
760
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Posted - 2012.05.14 22:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
Dirk Smacker wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: 2.) The doomsday predictions will come true, and the war will stagnate, fights will decrease, and I will have demonstrated to CCP that they should have listened to me and pared back the multiplier and not gone with full station docking. Necessary adjustments would than be made to get the fights rolling again.
Hey, you did all you could possibly do before backing down. I just re-watched a video someone did to support your candidacy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPCggF0O8_oI threw up a bit around 4:15.
Im a little bothered by the fact I feel that you Hans have retreated from what got you/him elected by many people.
A lot of what you are saying now feels like the opposite of what we see in that vid starting from 4:15 Hans. And what was said on your blogs.
Remember when what i was saying on voice when they were talking about what was coming on fanfest feed and how I said it was bad then and why. You said it was prob just ideas they were kicking around and most of it was just drawing board still. Well seems i was right it was not just drawing board was it.
That crystal ball.
Welcome to Null Light. Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
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