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Epegi Givo
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.04.02 22:49:00 -
[1]
There has been huge arguments over Ninja salvaging, and I think we need to settle it.
As it is now, when you salvage (Not loot, but salvage) someone else's wreck you do it without consequence, and there is little to nothing the victim can do.
Now as a fan of EVE's dark side, I even say this isn't right, it is plain outright stealing.
What I propose is that when you salvage someone's wreck, it gives you the same aggro timer countdown to the victim and his corp as if you were to steal their Cargo Container (The corp can shoot you for 15 minutes).
The main argument by the salvagers is that a wreck is space junk, and isn't worth anything.
Well, if it is junk why do you want it so badly? And what CONCORD may see as junk can be seen by the Pod Pilot as treasure. And If enough people sign a "petition" Then that junk will be defend able from thieves.
Sign below if you want salvaging to give people Cargo-Container style aggro. ------------------------------------- My other alt is a Ferrari |
Epegi Givo
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.04.02 22:50:00 -
[2]
I support salvaging giving you aggro. ------------------------------------- My other alt is a Ferrari |
Ms Delerium
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Posted - 2009.04.02 23:48:00 -
[3]
lmao this has been discussed for ages and I dont support it.
u want to be sure u keep the salvage profits, u get rid of 1-2 high slots for a salvager and a tractor beam
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.04.03 00:09:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Epegi Givo There has been huge arguments over Ninja salvaging, and I think we need to settle it.
Nope - there hasn't been an arguement. There has been a clear statement of intent from the game designers stating that "this is how it is supposed to work" and a bunch of whining from people who don't like it.
Creating a new post doesn't change it and it doesn't make this thread any different than the previous threads on this topic.
And - not supported. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic |
Vincent Gaines
Tau Online Explorator Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.03 00:40:00 -
[5]
CCP has stated before it should not draw aggro.
Salvage is just that... salvage.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.04.03 00:50:00 -
[6]
Technically, if you want to get right down to it, the wreck should belong to the same corporation as the pilot flying it when it blew up. I mean, if some drunk guy runs my car off the road, he doesn't get my car, even if I do die. it goes to my next of kin.
So if you look at it from a certain point of view, all salvagers are thieves.
Don't you just loooove semantics? --Vel
Originally by: Tachyon Shade Idealism is what precedes experience. Cynicism is what follows it.
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William Idoru
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Posted - 2009.04.03 04:19:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
Originally by: Epegi Givo There has been huge arguments over Ninja salvaging, and I think we need to settle it.
Nope - there hasn't been an arguement. There has been a clear statement of intent from the game designers stating that "this is how it is supposed to work" and a bunch of whining from people who don't like it.
Creating a new post doesn't change it and it doesn't make this thread any different than the previous threads on this topic.
And - not supported.
I'm kinda new to this game, but isn't this what this forum is for? I thought the idea was for people to raise issues of importance to them, regardless of what might have been posted in the past or what CCP's current policies are.
Just sayin.'
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.04.03 04:37:00 -
[8]
Originally by: William Idoru I'm kinda new to this game, but isn't this what this forum is for? I thought the idea was for people to raise issues of importance to them, regardless of what might have been posted in the past or what CCP's current policies are.
Just sayin.'
No, the CSM is a way for the player-base society of EVE to bring forth issues pertaining to CCP.
It is not the forum for whiny arrogant carebear *****s to whine and tell CCP what the rules for their own game should be.
Salvage is for everyone. This is how CCP deisgned it and intended it to be. If you don't like it then go play hello kitty online.
Btw, welcome to eve-o. Always remember if you don't like it then you can gtfo.
Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.
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Aethrwolf
Caldari Home for Wayward Gamers
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Posted - 2009.04.03 04:57:00 -
[9]
you know, its funny how many insults fly around this issue. Being a "carebear" myself, while I'm not fond of the fact that salvaging doesnt flag ppl, I prefer not to rant on something that's relatively minor, since CCP has stated that its by design. I think ppl SHOULD be flagged because it would encourage pvp.. a stated intent of EVE as a whole. I guess CCP doesnt want to deal with ppl crying about getting ganked by the fleet a salvage thief may have waiting for the salvager to get aggressed, and I think the ppl who get attitudes every time this is brought up are mostly ppl who WOULDN"T have such a fleet available. If someone takes the time to scan down a mission I'm running solo.. more power to them. They made an effort and its paying off. if they scan down a mission that I'm running in fleet, then its a race cause we usually have someone salvaging as we go. I really dont see why ppl get so worked up about this issue time after time, I dont really care which way it goes, so for the moment I'll just agree with CCP on this one. Sorry to my fellow carebears for not feeling this is worth supporting.
Absolutely everything is subjective. |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.04.03 05:17:00 -
[10]
Working as designed, and I see no reason it ought to be changed. It's less annoying than a whole lot of other game mechanics out there, and with better reason and more effective possible countermeasures. ----- Bloodmoney Incorporated is recruiting! |
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Lagerstars
Caldari No Limit Productions Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.04.03 06:38:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Lagerstars on 03/04/2009 06:39:49 No. -----------------------------------------
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Gabriel Darkefyre
Minmatar Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.04.03 07:57:00 -
[12]
No. It is junk. You want it so badly, salvage it first. ---------------
Image from Crumplecorn's DesuSigs |
Foulque
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Posted - 2009.04.03 08:11:00 -
[13]
No. ________
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Vall Kor
ZipZoom Kaboom
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Posted - 2009.04.03 14:52:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Vall Kor on 03/04/2009 14:53:13 I think it should, that way those 'salvagers' actually have to fight for what they want. Yes it is junk, but if there is a ship in the area you should have the option to engage them. Since when did adding more PVP to a PVP game become a bad thing.
If you notice it's not the PVEers who are against this, it's the thieves who are not willing to fight and just want easy isk. I say make them fight for it, just like looting a wreck salvaging should give agro.
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Efrim Black
Gallente Apellon
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Posted - 2009.04.03 15:06:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Vall Kor Edited by: Vall Kor on 03/04/2009 14:53:13 I think it should, that way those 'salvagers' actually have to fight for what they want. Yes it is junk, but if there is a ship in the area you should have the option to engage them.
Try not running your missions in High-sec.
As to the proposal. No.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.04.03 15:58:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Efrim Black
Originally by: Vall Kor Edited by: Vall Kor on 03/04/2009 14:53:13 I think it should, that way those 'salvagers' actually have to fight for what they want. Yes it is junk, but if there is a ship in the area you should have the option to engage them.
Try not running your missions in High-sec.
As to the proposal. No.
^^ This - just in case anyone misunderstood my first response. --Vel
Originally by: Tachyon Shade Idealism is what precedes experience. Cynicism is what follows it.
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SupaKudoRio
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Posted - 2009.04.03 16:49:00 -
[17]
There are two counters to ninja salvagers.
1. Get a friend to salvage for you. 2. Kill the wrecks if someone appears in your mission.
No need to nerf ninja salvaging when there are easy counters to it, thumbs down.
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SencneS
Amarr Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2009.04.03 16:58:00 -
[18]
I'll support this ONLY if at the same time they also add....
If I'm mining an asteroid in space, and someone else comes along and starts mining it, they become agro to me allowing me to attack them without concord intervention.
You manager to get that passed and I'll support Agro from Salvaging.
Amarr for Life |
Dorian Tats
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Posted - 2009.04.03 17:16:00 -
[19]
Interesting that so called "ninja salvaging" is allegedly intended by the developers, yet, I don't think there's actually a mechanic for scanning out wrecks other than scanning down the guy doing the mission.
I could be wrong.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.04.03 17:21:00 -
[20]
Originally by: SupaKudoRio There are two counters to ninja salvagers.
1. Get a friend to salvage for you. 2. Kill the wrecks if someone appears in your mission.
No need to nerf ninja salvaging when there are easy counters to it, thumbs down.
3. Fly a ship with utility highs(Dominix, Raven, Marauder) and salvage as you go. ----- Bloodmoney Incorporated is recruiting! |
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Dedalus77
Junkyard Dogs Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.04.03 18:18:00 -
[21]
Not supported.
This keeps coming up and keeps coming up and keeps coming up. Look, salvage is meant as a mini-profession in order to generate the raw materials to create rigs. Let's think through what would happen if you introduce salvage aggro:
1) Pirates will bait mission runners much the same way they bait miners and the next thing you know the same mission runners will be complaining about how pirates are baiting them and blowing them up and boo-hoo, make it so only the wreck owner can salvage.
2) The number of people engaging in salvaging activities will decrease resulting in...
3) the value of salvage materials will increase resulting in...
4) the cost of all those rigs you have will increase and you will all be complaining about how no one can afford to buy rigs anymore to fit on the new ship you had to buy because someone came into your mission and blew you up.
Seriously, get over it. Mission in a less crowded area. Salvage your own wrecks as you go (I have seen plenty of mission runners do this and i generally leave them alone). Bring someone along to salvage for you. There are 3 solutions to your problem that do not involve screwing up the entire salvage/rig market.
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SupaKudoRio
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Posted - 2009.04.03 18:49:00 -
[22]
Edited by: SupaKudoRio on 03/04/2009 18:49:50 I forgot counter #3. Dangit.
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ZiggyMeister
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Posted - 2009.04.03 18:59:00 -
[23]
I run missions in high sec and I say NO to aggro from salvaging the wrecks from other chars.
I like the way it is now, so the salvaged parts go to who gets to them first.
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Dorian Tats
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Posted - 2009.04.03 19:00:00 -
[24]
I'm not following.
Are you saying that ninja salvagers will stop ninja salvaging if there's a chance they could get banged up in the mission?
And then you're saying that there's enough ninja salvagers that will actually stop the behavior that rig prices will sky rocket?
Originally by: Dedalus77 Not supported.
This keeps coming up and keeps coming up and keeps coming up. Look, salvage is meant as a mini-profession in order to generate the raw materials to create rigs. Let's think through what would happen if you introduce salvage aggro:
1) Pirates will bait mission runners much the same way they bait miners and the next thing you know the same mission runners will be complaining about how pirates are baiting them and blowing them up and boo-hoo, make it so only the wreck owner can salvage.
2) The number of people engaging in salvaging activities will decrease resulting in...
3) the value of salvage materials will increase resulting in...
4) the cost of all those rigs you have will increase and you will all be complaining about how no one can afford to buy rigs anymore to fit on the new ship you had to buy because someone came into your mission and blew you up.
Seriously, get over it. Mission in a less crowded area. Salvage your own wrecks as you go (I have seen plenty of mission runners do this and i generally leave them alone). Bring someone along to salvage for you. There are 3 solutions to your problem that do not involve screwing up the entire salvage/rig market.
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Jat Goodwin
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Posted - 2009.04.03 19:24:00 -
[25]
IIRC, I read somewhere once that the eve online salvage system is based around the real world naval salvage.
In international waters, the first person to get a chain around the wreck gets to claim it as salvage.
However if you do that to a military vessel you will most likely be shot...
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Dorian Tats
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Posted - 2009.04.03 19:36:00 -
[26]
Right. But like you said, do that to a military ship, and you're likely going to have a tough time.
I think I *get* why you can't just scan down a wreck with a combat probe---as there's probably a good chance that there could potentially be so profitable that everybody and there brother would be dong it.
Although, I don't understand that other thing where somehow associating risk with ninja salvaging will cause mass market hysteria.
Originally by: Jat Goodwin IIRC, I read somewhere once that the eve online salvage system is based around the real world naval salvage.
In international waters, the first person to get a chain around the wreck gets to claim it as salvage.
However if you do that to a military vessel you will most likely be shot...
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Dedalus77
Junkyard Dogs Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.04.03 20:05:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Dorian Tats Although, I don't understand that other thing where somehow associating risk with ninja salvaging will cause mass market hysteria.
Because additional risk means I have to compensate for that risk by increasing my prices.
Right now salvage is cheap because there is essentially no risk associated with obtaining it. If we implement a new aggro mechanic, I am now risking my ship when I go out to salvage, I have to have some way of off-setting that risk, so I increase my prices to cover my potential losses.
I'm not saying ninjas will stop, I'm saying they will increase their prices.
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Efrim Black
Gallente Apellon
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Posted - 2009.04.03 20:09:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Efrim Black on 03/04/2009 20:10:27
Originally by: Dorian Tats
Although, I don't understand that other thing where somehow associating risk with ninja salvaging will cause mass market hysteria.
THERE ALREADY IS RISK.
The only reason you think there is no risk is because you mission in high-sec. If you want to make more money anyway you will have to run missions in low-sec.
This doesn't take much brain power to understand. If you want to shoot at people - leave high-sec. If you want the safer but cheaper end of the verse, you stay in high-sec.
This isn't an argument, it's a lack of understanding on your part.
Edit: Also stop posting under your alt.
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Dedalus77
Junkyard Dogs Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.04.03 20:17:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Efrim Black
THERE ALREADY IS RISK.
The only reason you think there is no risk is because you mission in high-sec. If you want to make more money anyway you will have to run missions in low-sec.
This doesn't take much brain power to understand. If you want to shoot at people - leave high-sec. If you want the safer but cheaper end of the verse, you stay in high-sec.
This isn't an argument, it's a lack of understanding on your part.
Thank you Efrim, this actually proves my point. Look at how much more expensive T2 rigs are. This is because T2 salvage is extremely valuable due to the risk associated with obtaining it. What you are suggesting will bring this risk to T1 salvage, thereby increasing T1 rig prices.
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Efrim Black
Gallente Apellon
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Posted - 2009.04.03 20:21:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Dedalus77
Originally by: Efrim Black
THERE ALREADY IS RISK.
The only reason you think there is no risk is because you mission in high-sec. If you want to make more money anyway you will have to run missions in low-sec.
This doesn't take much brain power to understand. If you want to shoot at people - leave high-sec. If you want the safer but cheaper end of the verse, you stay in high-sec.
This isn't an argument, it's a lack of understanding on your part.
Thank you Efrim, this actually proves my point. Look at how much more expensive T2 rigs are. This is because T2 salvage is extremely valuable due to the risk associated with obtaining it. What you are suggesting will bring this risk to T1 salvage, thereby increasing T1 rig prices.
What you're pointing out about the Rigs is true, but to me this thread belies a deeper stupidity between the OPs keyboard and chair. High security space is high security space. This thread smacks of a whine by someone who has never run missions in low-sec or 0.0.
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