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OMG... are you kidding me??? Do you know what they did to the falcon?

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Calarin Crushed Ambitions	Posted - 2009.04.16 21:48:00 - [271] Not reading 9 pages of text... As for falcons....yes I do hate them. However, I disagree with what CCP has decided to do. Falcon performed perfectly in its role, hence why people hate it. Perhaps it did need a little tweaking... but what CCP should have done is boost the other recons...arazus are still overnerfed with damps...rapiers got smashed by the web nerf... I don't know much about the pilgrim but it working at 12km and within overheated/faction web range means it has to have some sort of a tank yet fit it all. A corp mate of mine made a good point: the falcon is not overpowered its one of the few good caldari ships (not anymore)...its just that the other recons are underpowered. CCP needs to stop balancing by only nerfing imo...boost other ships to compete and we won't all be flying ships that are worthless at everything because of nerfs.
WormHole Blindness	Posted - 2009.04.16 22:35:00 - [272] I think Rufis Dangerfield nailed the issue on the first page of replies. If you read anything in this thread, read this one reply. NOTE: I have no affiliation with Rufis or his character, just think his reply sums up the bigger problem nicely.
Lyta Reimalken Minmatar No Fear Buccaneers	Posted - 2009.04.16 23:14:00 - [273] That so many people are unwilling or unable to imagine a world without their 220km optimal win buttons is a sad reflection on the average eve player I fear. Whilst this level of outcry was to be expected, I find it to be the most beautiful thing I have seen in weeks. So many tears, So many falcon alts. Today has been a good day.
n5000	Posted - 2009.04.17 00:14:00 - [274] I am so happy to have 10 m3 drone bay on Falcon! Deevs, thank you sooo much!
Sexorella hotz Pyre of Gods	Posted - 2009.04.17 00:40:00 - [275] Edited by: Sexorella hotz on 17/04/2009 00:44:33 Originally by: Calarin Not reading 9 pages of text... As for falcons....yes I do hate them. However, I disagree with what CCP has decided to do. Falcon performed perfectly in its role, hence why people hate it. Perhaps it did need a little tweaking... but what CCP should have done is boost the other recons...arazus are still overnerfed with damps...rapiers got smashed by the web nerf... I don't know much about the pilgrim but it working at 12km and within overheated/faction web range means it has to have some sort of a tank yet fit it all. A corp mate of mine made a good point: the falcon is not overpowered its one of the few good caldari ships (not anymore)...its just that the other recons are underpowered. CCP needs to stop balancing by only nerfing imo...boost other ships to compete and we won't all be flying ships that are worthless at everything because of nerfs. A boost to anything is a nerf to something else, and vice versa, so who f'ing cares which angle they take. Everyone in eve that isn't a falcon pilot or doesn't have a falcon alt feels quite boosted. Therefore CCP has boosted most pilots in eve by nerfing the falcon pilots(at least I hope most). If they chose to boost the other recons, then falcon pilots would still feel nerfed because one would assume any such boosting would finally yield some sort of vulnerability to the falcon, and also raise the specter of what other ships have been nerfed by said boost. So boosting recons in general nerfs all other classes of ships+falcon. Therefore, the fewest people got nerfed by nerfing falcons directly, and the most people got boosted(everyone minus falcons). Isn't this what you want? Also, please try to imagine ever flying a battleship in combat where all 4 recon ships can operate practically invulnerable. Does that sound remotely fun at all? Guns not tracking, nothing lockable, oh ****, where's my cap, and I can't move, sounds awesome? Recons-online sounds like a blast.
Zar Terra MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2009.04.17 01:12:00 - [276] BECAUSE OF FALCON!
myg0t Azide	Posted - 2009.04.17 01:23:00 - [277] I think the falcon need a new skin, maybe something with feathers like Hawk from Buck Rogers. Maybe some nice talons to grab too.
Nexes Edelstahl	Posted - 2009.04.17 13:40:00 - [278] Edited by: Nexes Edelstahl on 17/04/2009 13:42:26 Bad day for falcon pilots for sure! This rabble about bringing other recons up to range (200km) comes from the mouths of morons. These ships are supposed to be varied, thus making the game more indepth and interesting. There are many ways to counter the "mighty falcon" ECCMs, inty's, steath bombers, probers ... so on. Use some tactics, not just "bring a blob" to a slugfest, that poo poo is boring. CCP wants us to be diverse in our engagements. Having a fleet with a wide range of ships is the cornerstone of eve. The down fall is we're all killmail wh***s wanting to out epeen the other so these roles go unfufilled. Perhaps the other recons could of marginally been buffered in areas other than range. This might of proved more usefull and brought them to more fleet battles, even the steath bomber (which just got buffed) out from mothball to counter this new offence. We just missed out on another dynamic of the game here, so not only did the falcon get nerfed the game as a whole got nerfed too. The bottom line is this, the only thing the falcon had was it's jam range ... no tank, no spank and no drones. Now to reduce that and add a missile slot with bonuses is just plain silly ... it's a gun boat if anything! Geez CCP you really mucked up this time for sure! lrn2cuppycake anti-falcon u whiny she-dogs!
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.04.17 13:44:00 - [279] Originally by: Nexes Edelstahl [Use some tactics, not just "bring a blob" to a slugfest, that poo poo is boring. CCP wants us to be diverse in our engagements. Having a fleet with a wide range of ships is the cornerstone of eve. Exactly. So when they noticed the overabundance of Falcons, it got adjusted so that diversity and wide range of ships could come back into play. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.04.17 14:49:00 - [280] Edited by: Murina on 17/04/2009 14:55:57 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Nexes Edelstahl [Use some tactics, not just "bring a blob" to a slugfest, that poo poo is boring. CCP wants us to be diverse in our engagements. Having a fleet with a wide range of ships is the cornerstone of eve. Exactly. So when they noticed the overabundance of Falcons, it got adjusted so that diversity and wide range of ships could come back into play. It was not the falcons that stopped ppl from bringing ships other than gank/tank to a fight, and to even think so makes you so niave its almost inconcevable. All this nerf has done has thrown yet another ship onto the gang v gang combat scrap heap. Originally by: Sexorella hotz Also, please try to imagine ever flying a battleship in combat where all 4 recon ships can operate practically invulnerable. Does that sound remotely fun at all? Guns not tracking, nothing lockable, oh ***, where's my cap, and I can't move, sounds awesome? Recons-online sounds like a blast. Try to imagine your gang having something other than just gank/tank BS in it, and that your own recons in your fully mixed and varied gang actually engage the oposing recons in a detailed and complicated engagment. Recons on line will not happen but retrds online has yet again been given a boost with the way this nerf has been done.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.04.17 16:46:00 - [281] Originally by: Murina It was not the falcons that stopped ppl from bringing ships other than gank/tank to a fight The simplest anti-falcon ship was another falcon. Quote: to even think so makes you so niave its almost inconcevable. …and to even think that the number of falcon alts wasn't related to its overeffectivenes is downright stupid. Quote: All this nerf has done has thrown yet another ship onto the gang v gang combat scrap heap. The only ones who will scrap the Falcon after these changes are pilots who are too incompetent to fly them and who shouldn't have trained for them to begin with. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
krytan Amarr Galaxy Punks Axiom Empire	Posted - 2009.04.17 16:47:00 - [282] Edited by: krytan on 17/04/2009 16:52:11 Originally by: Countessa Alba I went in Sisi, because a buddy of mine said they fixed SB's and Recons, I was elated. The SB can now field COC and torps instead of cruise... sweet! Falcon lost 100km off it's range easy, and gained minimal ECM strength to counter it. CCP's justification is "We gave you a drone bay and a single missile launcher hardpoint that fires faster... you should be happy?" Keep the Faster missile, and drones, and give me back my range. If you are a falcon pilot check it out. Nerfed for whiny FC's everywhere -Perterbed OMG, Stop your whine!!! Falcons was overpowered, now my curse even stands a chance against it :P
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.04.17 16:53:00 - [283] Originally by: Tippia The simplest anti-falcon ship was another falcon. Because the other recons especially the arazu lacked range......... Originally by: Tippia àand to even think that the number of falcon alts wasn't related to its overeffectivenes is downright stupid. It had nothing to do with it being overly effective, it had to do with it being the ONLY effective recon for gang vs gang combat because of the range it operated at. Originally by: Tippia The only ones who will scrap the Falcon after these changes are pilots who are too incompetent to fly them and who shouldn't have trained for them to begin with. Yea yea, like damps ect ect were still used after they got gimped........history does not support your theory.
Diomidis Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.17 17:35:00 - [284] Originally by: Murina Yea yea, like damps ect ect were still used after they got gimped........history does not support your theory. Dampening, NOSing and other hard-nerfed (balanced) ewar modules were working 100% of the time on NON-BONUSED ships... Those where abandoned when they couldn't be abused by EVERYONE as I-win-slot-fillers. At least the devs tried to compensate the new ECM nerf by overhauling the ECM ewar boat hulls, something that didn't happen with Dampening ewarboats, nor did with cap warfare boats, neither to the webbing recons / EAFs. Indirect boosts to the Amarr, Gallente and Minmatar Recons, by making: TDs affecting falloff Scrams cut off MWD Painters boost missile effectiveness were unable to match the Falcon's superiority. Moreover, ECM is so powerfully bonused through it's hulls, that's practicaly the only "racial" ewar. It's almost pointless trying to jam something in a non-bonused caldari ship with something other than drones, while all other forms of ewar modules are workable in non-bonused ships up to a decent percentage. Why shouldn't webbers have falloff too for example, and a short 90% effectiveness optimal the Minmatar recons could extend to 24km? Why shouldn't dampeners get a heftier bonus on Gallente Recons out to their optimal? Why shouldn't NOS work as they did previously on Amarr Recons, but with a falloff to reduse their effectiveness when reaching further? Everybody's dream is falcon's post-nerf situation...but...you are not happy... Join the Biggest Greek Corp!* www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game!
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.04.17 17:48:00 - [285] Originally by: Diomidis At least the devs tried to compensate the new ECM nerf by overhauling the ECM ewar boat hulls, something that didn't happen with Dampening ewarboats, nor did with cap warfare boats, neither to the webbing recons / EAFs. And that is the real problem because if they had buffed some of the other recons effects and range on certain of their ewar systems the falcon issue/whines would never have happened as gangs would have a selection of recons in them that ALL worked instead of having the ONLY one that worked. So instead of having 4 good recons for gang fighting we did HAD only 1 and now that is getting gimped like the other 3. Originally by: Diomidis Everybody's dream is falcon's post-nerf situation...but...you are not happy... ERM, i think the fact there are so many ppl saying this nerf is bad kinda along with the title of this thread makes that comment stupid.
Corwain	Posted - 2009.04.17 18:26:00 - [286] I am reminded of the Yahtzee review of EVE online...what did he say about about the single server idea? Oh yeah "The population of a small whiny city." -- Distortion\| Distortion 2 Preview
Shenala Grenutra Ursus Arctos Horribilis Red Flag Sovereignty	Posted - 2009.04.17 18:45:00 - [287] I'm actually kinda happy they nerfed the Falcon. I was in a little gang two days ago (just before the patch) in which a Falcon and a griffin shut down a gang of 6 and prevented them from doing anything. If the Falcon had been within a realistic range (and yes, jamming from 100km out is NOT realistic), it would have been a little different. Perhaps we should have had ECCM on, but who's going to give a vital slot on a Vexor for something that may or may not occur? Falcons were beyond overpowered and probably still are... we'll see.
Mac Maniac Caldari Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.04.17 20:47:00 - [288] Edited by: Mac Maniac on 17/04/2009 20:50:27 As a Falcon pilot, I have to admit that it was absolutely, ridiculously overpowered. TBH I'm not certain they did not nerf it enough. As a Rapier pilot, I'm wouldn't be so sure about it's supposed lack of webbing.. with Gallente navy webs I can web at 45k, with a Claymore Pilot in gang running Links I'm out to 65k.. I'm sure with the best Named webs I can probably hit 90k or better....
Tal Kjelthorne Kjelthorne Industries	Posted - 2009.04.18 05:45:00 - [289] Does anyone know what the survivability of a Falcon was compared to other ships in gang warfare prepatch? I'm guessing that number played a role in the nerf. I think CCP was very reasonable with this nerf. On paper the Falcon still looks like an extremely dangerous adversary. Combine that with the new stealth bombers and I think you have yourself a very evil fleet potential. My two isk. ___________ I reserve the right to be wrong. We the Unwilling Lead by the Unknowing...
Loveslave Dave	Posted - 2009.04.18 13:33:00 - [290] Originally by: Shenala Grenutra If the Falcon had been within a realistic range (and yes, jamming from 100km out is NOT realistic), it would have been a little different. Falcons were beyond overpowered and probably still are... we'll see. You do realize that this patch just made falcons better at the range that you consider unrealistic right?
honey bunchetta	Posted - 2009.04.18 14:11:00 - [291] Originally by: Loveslave Dave Originally by: Shenala Grenutra If the Falcon had been within a realistic range (and yes, jamming from 100km out is NOT realistic), it would have been a little different. Falcons were beyond overpowered and probably still are... we'll see. You do realize that this patch just made falcons better at the range that you consider unrealistic right? At 100km i think they will be operating well into falloff so they will not be better as before the patch 100km would have been well within optimal.
Mishirosen	Posted - 2009.04.18 15:56:00 - [292] ECM = Evil Caldari Magic also, nerfing the falcons into a realistic range and letting scorpions take the higher range is a good idea etc.
MajorMin0r Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.04.18 21:51:00 - [293] Edited by: MajorMin0r on 18/04/2009 21:53:47 Funny whine The falcon gets to sit at 150 plus km, making the target USELESS (if you cant target you can not bring rr support or dps or tackling save a bubble ship). On top of that it can do this to 4+ targets on average given good rolls on the ecm chance and how many jammers it can fit because of its range. Just for comparison sake Arazu/lach - damp range is around 45km curse - medium neut range is about 40km to my knowledge pilgrim - no range bonus it has to get very close rapier/huginn - 40 km web range falcon - 150 km range on racial AT LEAST because i know you can get these out to an astonishing 200-220kms and i know multispecs go out pretty far as well at least 2.5-3 times the distance of the other recons (if any of these numbers are wrong someone please correct me) With not a single other recon being able to range tank like this it puts the falcon in sole possession as the BEST recon for sniping gangs/rr gangs/gate camps etc. Because by the time a warp in for the sniping spot is given the falcon has alreay given its gang plenty of support to turn the tide of battle in there favor. It can survive, it can COMPLETELY incap a ship and it can cloak giving it everything a pilot in eve wants -excellent engagement range -High level of usefulness -VERY high survivability (helps the wallet stay healthy =D) You cant say the same of the other recons now can you? Now tbh I did not mind that falcons where that powerful, but i felt that the other recons either needed a boost or the falcon need a rebalance. This may be a little too much, but in the end it really was needed considering that falcon had 3 times the range at least of any other recon. And one other thing to keep in mind, You dont see ppl fitting cap batteries to counter a curse/pilgrim neuting You dont see ppl fitting sensor boosters to counter an arazu/lachesis dampening you Ppl fit mwd whether a rapier/huginn is on the field or not so that jury is out on this one :P but ppl fit eccm to counter falcons fairly often in RR gangs
MajorMin0r Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.04.18 21:52:00 - [294] Edited by: MajorMin0r on 18/04/2009 21:52:07 delete the double post!
Mawusi	Posted - 2009.04.19 04:42:00 - [295] Who cares ?? It's not the end of the world....it's just a game. Stop moaning, suck it up, take it like men and get on with it. I fly a Falcon and Im not complaining. It was getting kind of boring perma-jamming ships from 180km anyway. You cant please all the people all of the time, so whatever CCP do people will still moan about it.
Countessa Alba	Posted - 2009.04.25 03:34:00 - [296] So I have played with the Falcon a lot more since my original venting. This is what I have discovered: Falcon is more powerful after play testing at 100km ranges. (and no she is not quite into falloff yet :-D) I now rarely miss a Jam compared to before where it was one in ten, now it's like one in twenty. (Ha! Rarely... Ha!) I have solo hunted people in the new falcon and won... never could have done that before. (More fun for me) After careful play testing, She is even more broken than before. I retract all earlier frustrations. That and the Rook is soooooo much more attractive now. Especially with the 25m3 drone bay. I must say the original Sisi load out for the falcon was nicer with the five drones like the rook, but I guess it would be a bit much. This ship is much better and more dangerous now for many reasons. However its application has changed. I like the new niche she's going to fill. I hope the other falcon pilots out there are seeing these things too, more importantly, I hope all you people who begged for this 'nerf' run into the new Falcon in a good pilot's hands. MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Negerballerjunge	Posted - 2009.04.25 05:44:00 - [297] The problem wasnt that the falcon could ecm well, its just that it could do it at such a absurd distance in comparison to all the other recons. Now the falcon requires more pilot skill at the very least, instead of 1) warp in 180+ km away 2) target and activate ecm 3) wait I think these changes are in the right direction to bring this in line with the other recons
Shidhe Minmatar The Babylon5 Consortuim	Posted - 2009.04.25 08:36:00 - [298] Originally by: Trader20 Edited by: Trader20 on 04/04/2009 03:01:03 CCP will realize how stupid the falcon nerf is when half the playerbase cancels their falcon alt accounts just so CCP can "balance" one ship. I hope it was worth all the money your going to lose. It's not to late though, you can still keep your money. Do the right thing, leave the falcon/ecm alone and keep the money. If half the player base really had falcon alt accounts then something was very seriously wrong...
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.04.25 09:06:00 - [299] Edited by: Murina on 25/04/2009 09:08:51 Originally by: MajorMin0r Just for comparison sake: Arazu/lach - damp range is around 45km curse - medium neut range is about 40km to my knowledge pilgrim - no range bonus it has to get very close rapier/huginn - 40 km web range falcon - 150 km range on racial AT LEAST because i know you can get these out to an astonishing 200-220kms and i know multispecs go out pretty far as well at least 2.5-3 times the distance of the other recons All of this looks pretty accurate as far as raw stats are concerned. Now it becomes a matter of perspective on how to deal with the issue. Q. Are the other recons are regularly used in ALL forms of gang warfare?. A. No they are normally only used in very small gangs for ganking solo ships or other very small gangs. Q. Why?. A. The range they operate in coupled with the fact they are a thin cruiser hull makes them ineffective compared to well tanked DMG dealer fits in solo or all but the very smallest gang v gang combat, as they spend their time in most reasonably sized gang fights avoiding getting killed by warping away instead of contributing. Q. Then why not buff the range and STR of some of the other recons effects like TD's, DAMPS ect instead of nerfing ECM so these other recons are more regularly used in all forms of gang combat?. A. Because its easier for ppl to cry than to try. Q. But if the recons bonuses to TD's, DAMPS ect are buffed in range and str the recons would be used more, the arazu's damps could easily counter the falcons ECM and visa versa depending on who got the first lock/had a free mod to use ect and the gangs in eve would need to be more versitile and fit some ships for range/counter eawr instead of just heading more and more towards gank/tank with maybe some RR mixed in. A. WAAAAAAAA!!!!! I dont wanna adapt my fittings or gang setups and actually use teamwork and planning to be successful at gang pvp, i much prefer sitting oposite another close range bunch of ships, locking each primary target one after another and hitting f5 until one side runs out of ships or warps off......

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