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Lord Anubis
   |
Posted - 2004.08.24 16:48:00 -
[1]
Is some thing being done obut this seemly urber nerf. I know pleanty of threads are out on this at the mo but there seems to be no answers just whining. I wont state the problems with thease guns as its already being metioned in great leaght
All i want to know are the devs on to this will it be sorted in the upcoming patch will there ever be a fix if so how is it being done please no one flame a reply to this thread as it just a simple question and all i want is an answer
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Lord Anubis
|
Posted - 2004.08.24 16:48:00 -
[2]
Is some thing being done obut this seemly urber nerf. I know pleanty of threads are out on this at the mo but there seems to be no answers just whining. I wont state the problems with thease guns as its already being metioned in great leaght
All i want to know are the devs on to this will it be sorted in the upcoming patch will there ever be a fix if so how is it being done please no one flame a reply to this thread as it just a simple question and all i want is an answer
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Grim Vandal
|
Posted - 2004.08.24 18:09:00 -
[3]
Just tested the DOT of long range guns. Target was a Giant secure container each time. Each time 2 km within the optimal range of each gun!
The ships were not moving at all. (Transversal velocity 0 m/s)
The following test shows HOW BAD the 1400mm howitzer's DOT is EVEN WITHOUT the need of tracking!
First test 425mm Railgun I
Skills:
Large hybrid turret lv 4
Gallente BS lv 4
surgical strike lv 4
Gunnery lv 5 (needed anyway lol)
Ship: Megathron
Results:
194 shots fired
27,02 dmg/sec
Second test Tachyon Laser I
Skills:
Large energy turret lv 3
surgical strike lv 4
Gunnery lv 5 (needed anyway)
Ship: Megathron
Results:
194 shots fired
26,86 dmg/sec
Third test 1400mm howitzer I
Skills:
Large projectile turret lv 5
Minmatar BS lv 5
surgical strike lv 5
Gunnery lv 5 (needed anyway)
Ship: Tempest
Results:
77 shots fired
23,77 dmg/sec
Each test was done on chaos! Since I cant fly minmatar ships myself I found a willing person to help me testing the 1400mm. His name is EA NightShade and he HAS MAXED OUT SKILLS ON CHAOS!!!
The fact that you will have a chance of 1 % to do wrecking hits hurts the long range projectile users the most! Due to their really bad ROF. Even more will a 1400mm suffer WAY MORE FROM misses than any other gun due to its HIGH ROF again. On top of that it has the WORST TRACKING of all guns and on top of that it has the WORST AMMO eg. large emp = 44 dmg whereas the antimatter ammo has 48 as well as the multi frequency. ON TOP OF THAT the projectile gun needs 2 BONUSES FOR THEIR DOT TO GET at least a bit usefull (eg. meathron has a better dot with rails PLUS it gets a tracking bonus!!) AND ON TOP OF THAT YOU NEED TO HAVE MAXED OUT SKILLS IN GUNNERY AND LV 5 MINMATAR BS TO GET THE DOT OF A TACHYON WITH LV 2 IN LARGE ENERGY TURRET AND LV 4 SURGICAL STRIKE !!!! ON TOP OF THAT THE TEMPEST GETS THIS BONUS FOR "ONLY" 6 OF ITS HIGH SLOTS (while it cant even fit them easily, most of the times only 5x 1400mm!!!) ON TOP OF THAT IT HAS TO RELOAD WAY MORE THAN ANY OTHER GUN!!!!
Only "advantage" it uses nearly no cap but the tempest has also the worst cap!!!! And it can switch its dmg BUT most tanks are equally tanked in all 4 resistance types. And even more you cant switch to ONE SPECIFIC dmg type so its a really a moot point to see it as an advantage and moreover you will never figure out which is the lowest resistance of a target like with missile SINCE YOU CANT SWITCH TO ONE SPECIFIC DMG TYPE and besides that you will do LESS DOT most of the times since you have to reload all the times ...
So you see the 1400mm howitzer has some SERIOUS DRAWBACKS
I think ONE 1400mm howitzer I on a tempest SHOULD DO THE SAME DOT AS ONE Tachyon Laser I on an ARMAGEDDON
If that happens we will have the following:
Armageddon and tempest will be the 2 ships with the highest possible long range guns (although its unlikly that an arma will use tachs) The Megathron or Dominix with one 425mm rail will still be quite powerfull and will do slightly more dot as an apoc with one tach. The Typhoon with 1400mm will do nearly the same dmg as an apoc with tachs BUT it can fit only a maximum of 4 1400mm while the apoc could fit 8 tachs!!!
So in this case a tempest pilot will actually be a dmg dealer like the armageddon. Currently the tempest (with maxed skills) gives the 1400mm just enuf "bonus" to keep up with a bad skilled large long range laser user ...
On a side note: Pulse lasers are overpowered, Blasters work as intended and Autocannons do their job.
Greetings Grim |
Grim Vandal
|
Posted - 2004.08.24 18:09:00 -
[4]
Just tested the DOT of long range guns. Target was a Giant secure container each time. Each time 2 km within the optimal range of each gun!
The ships were not moving at all. (Transversal velocity 0 m/s)
The following test shows HOW BAD the 1400mm howitzer's DOT is EVEN WITHOUT the need of tracking!
First test 425mm Railgun I
Skills:
Large hybrid turret lv 4
Gallente BS lv 4
surgical strike lv 4
Gunnery lv 5 (needed anyway lol)
Ship: Megathron
Results:
194 shots fired
27,02 dmg/sec
Second test Tachyon Laser I
Skills:
Large energy turret lv 3
surgical strike lv 4
Gunnery lv 5 (needed anyway)
Ship: Megathron
Results:
194 shots fired
26,86 dmg/sec
Third test 1400mm howitzer I
Skills:
Large projectile turret lv 5
Minmatar BS lv 5
surgical strike lv 5
Gunnery lv 5 (needed anyway)
Ship: Tempest
Results:
77 shots fired
23,77 dmg/sec
Each test was done on chaos! Since I cant fly minmatar ships myself I found a willing person to help me testing the 1400mm. His name is EA NightShade and he HAS MAXED OUT SKILLS ON CHAOS!!!
The fact that you will have a chance of 1 % to do wrecking hits hurts the long range projectile users the most! Due to their really bad ROF. Even more will a 1400mm suffer WAY MORE FROM misses than any other gun due to its HIGH ROF again. On top of that it has the WORST TRACKING of all guns and on top of that it has the WORST AMMO eg. large emp = 44 dmg whereas the antimatter ammo has 48 as well as the multi frequency. ON TOP OF THAT the projectile gun needs 2 BONUSES FOR THEIR DOT TO GET at least a bit usefull (eg. meathron has a better dot with rails PLUS it gets a tracking bonus!!) AND ON TOP OF THAT YOU NEED TO HAVE MAXED OUT SKILLS IN GUNNERY AND LV 5 MINMATAR BS TO GET THE DOT OF A TACHYON WITH LV 2 IN LARGE ENERGY TURRET AND LV 4 SURGICAL STRIKE !!!! ON TOP OF THAT THE TEMPEST GETS THIS BONUS FOR "ONLY" 6 OF ITS HIGH SLOTS (while it cant even fit them easily, most of the times only 5x 1400mm!!!) ON TOP OF THAT IT HAS TO RELOAD WAY MORE THAN ANY OTHER GUN!!!!
Only "advantage" it uses nearly no cap but the tempest has also the worst cap!!!! And it can switch its dmg BUT most tanks are equally tanked in all 4 resistance types. And even more you cant switch to ONE SPECIFIC dmg type so its a really a moot point to see it as an advantage and moreover you will never figure out which is the lowest resistance of a target like with missile SINCE YOU CANT SWITCH TO ONE SPECIFIC DMG TYPE and besides that you will do LESS DOT most of the times since you have to reload all the times ...
So you see the 1400mm howitzer has some SERIOUS DRAWBACKS
I think ONE 1400mm howitzer I on a tempest SHOULD DO THE SAME DOT AS ONE Tachyon Laser I on an ARMAGEDDON
If that happens we will have the following:
Armageddon and tempest will be the 2 ships with the highest possible long range guns (although its unlikly that an arma will use tachs) The Megathron or Dominix with one 425mm rail will still be quite powerfull and will do slightly more dot as an apoc with one tach. The Typhoon with 1400mm will do nearly the same dmg as an apoc with tachs BUT it can fit only a maximum of 4 1400mm while the apoc could fit 8 tachs!!!
So in this case a tempest pilot will actually be a dmg dealer like the armageddon. Currently the tempest (with maxed skills) gives the 1400mm just enuf "bonus" to keep up with a bad skilled large long range laser user ...
On a side note: Pulse lasers are overpowered, Blasters work as intended and Autocannons do their job.
Greetings Grim |
Miramas
|
Posted - 2004.08.24 19:55:00 -
[5]
Yep, all true but... but...
Projectiles DONT USE CAP !!!!
 [:lol: |
Miramas
|
Posted - 2004.08.24 19:55:00 -
[6]
Yep, all true but... but...
Projectiles DONT USE CAP !!!!
[:lol: |
Lord Anubis
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Posted - 2004.08.24 20:04:00 -
[7]
Ok so proj dont use cap.
How much cap do the heavy lasers use on a amarr ship with full skill and the best cap saving crystal on uses.
How much cap does a large hybrid wepon use taking into account full skill.
i can say my 1400 yaking into account my skill uses 2.5 cap a shot i may be way off the mark but i say damage to cap ratio here is way off proj do worse dam but use the smallest amount of cap lasers do the most damage and use the most amount of cap (in theory) as the amarr skill knock do the cap useade alot so lets see some cap posts here
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Lord Anubis
|
Posted - 2004.08.24 20:04:00 -
[8]
Ok so proj dont use cap.
How much cap do the heavy lasers use on a amarr ship with full skill and the best cap saving crystal on uses.
How much cap does a large hybrid wepon use taking into account full skill.
i can say my 1400 yaking into account my skill uses 2.5 cap a shot i may be way off the mark but i say damage to cap ratio here is way off proj do worse dam but use the smallest amount of cap lasers do the most damage and use the most amount of cap (in theory) as the amarr skill knock do the cap useade alot so lets see some cap posts here
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.08.24 20:27:00 -
[9]
what use u got from no cap wepons - if you cant even tank all the damage whit inffinite cap and 2 L repairers that Blaster tron do, or raven(witch also dont use cap...
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.24 20:27:00 -
[10]
what use u got from no cap wepons - if you cant even tank all the damage whit inffinite cap and 2 L repairers that Blaster tron do, or raven(witch also dont use cap...
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qyros
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Posted - 2004.08.24 22:31:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Grim Vandal
*snip
Posted - 2004.06.26 15:21:00
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=89658&page=5
Like I read the post of TomB they did some damage/cap calculations and came to the conclusion "no cap, long range, less damage".
Never heard though what the result of the investigations on the damage of projectiles was and if they have done it at all.
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qyros
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Posted - 2004.08.24 22:31:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Grim Vandal
*snip
Posted - 2004.06.26 15:21:00
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=89658&page=5
Like I read the post of TomB they did some damage/cap calculations and came to the conclusion "no cap, long range, less damage".
Never heard though what the result of the investigations on the damage of projectiles was and if they have done it at all.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.08.24 23:22:00 -
[13]
yeah well, but the missing damage is too hard to compensate with damage mods, expecially since the tempest isnt a low slot wonder
Wanna fly with me?
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.08.24 23:22:00 -
[14]
yeah well, but the missing damage is too hard to compensate with damage mods, expecially since the tempest isnt a low slot wonder
Wanna fly with me?
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.08.25 00:38:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Selim on 25/08/2004 00:44:00
The 1400mm with a long range ammo does, like, 90 damage.
Its true, stop denying it, devs. Large projectiles are FUBAR. They cant hit well, they cant hit for much damage, they have horrible rate of fire. They need to reload all the time (artillery) OR they burn through ammo like crazy (autocannons). So what if they use no cap? Minmatar ships have the LOWEST capacitor of all ships. Their poor tracking on top of all that. Their ammo is weaker than the other races ammo.
Even with the TWO damage bonuses of the Tempest, the DOT still doesnt match up to a LOW SKLLED laser user, and this isnt even taking into account the tracking.
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.08.25 00:38:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Selim on 25/08/2004 00:44:00
The 1400mm with a long range ammo does, like, 90 damage.
Its true, stop denying it, devs. Large projectiles are FUBAR. They cant hit well, they cant hit for much damage, they have horrible rate of fire. They need to reload all the time (artillery) OR they burn through ammo like crazy (autocannons). So what if they use no cap? Minmatar ships have the LOWEST capacitor of all ships. Their poor tracking on top of all that. Their ammo is weaker than the other races ammo.
Even with the TWO damage bonuses of the Tempest, the DOT still doesnt match up to a LOW SKLLED laser user, and this isnt even taking into account the tracking.
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GrandReaper
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Posted - 2004.08.27 13:38:00 -
[17]
I thing I have the solution on the no cap usage on projectiles. Make them use the same as hybrid and then give them the same tracking and the same damage/cap usage. And then boost cap on minmatar ships and boost the cap recharge. ThatÆs how the other suckers have dealt with the cap usage. I can fly Amarr ships and use laser and I have never ran out of cap when firing. The only time I have ôrun out of capö is when I tank as hell and firing as many multicrysta lasers as I could. Then and only then my cap began to run out. But that would happen to my shield tanking setup on Tempest with ônoö cap usage projectiles.
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GrandReaper
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Posted - 2004.08.27 13:38:00 -
[18]
I thing I have the solution on the no cap usage on projectiles. Make them use the same as hybrid and then give them the same tracking and the same damage/cap usage. And then boost cap on minmatar ships and boost the cap recharge. ThatÆs how the other suckers have dealt with the cap usage. I can fly Amarr ships and use laser and I have never ran out of cap when firing. The only time I have ôrun out of capö is when I tank as hell and firing as many multicrysta lasers as I could. Then and only then my cap began to run out. But that would happen to my shield tanking setup on Tempest with ônoö cap usage projectiles.
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Muad 'dib
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Posted - 2004.08.27 14:44:00 -
[19]
The 1400mm, does do great hits occasionlly, 600+ excelents etc. But the bad tracking+longrange+crappy rof = one hell of a crappy MAIN weapon, worse than any other large gun by some distance... Then there is the fact that a tach can hit a frig at 25kms no probs and kill it with the first shot... 1400mm has to be at 35kms+ and take 4+ shots to kill it on average (a perfect will obvisously utterly destroy it). Projectilles should do better dmg at range, i dont mind sitting at 40 or 50kms from a target (duh long range ship), but THAT is the dissadvantage, missing and doing crap dmg just makes it worse. Iam thinking of going raven, as no cap use (not even the 3 cap the 1400mm takes), hits at any range (so long range is sucky...oh no :/ )and can even do very good dmg when jammed with 6x cruise fof.... Come on ccp, if you dont make the 1400 any better, make my tempest faster or harder please, dont make me train caldari BS!!
/me has had his say. :)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
/|\.
'/\' The Wild West Made Me Quicker On The DRAW Than You |
Muad 'dib
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Posted - 2004.08.27 14:44:00 -
[20]
The 1400mm, does do great hits occasionlly, 600+ excelents etc. But the bad tracking+longrange+crappy rof = one hell of a crappy MAIN weapon, worse than any other large gun by some distance... Then there is the fact that a tach can hit a frig at 25kms no probs and kill it with the first shot... 1400mm has to be at 35kms+ and take 4+ shots to kill it on average (a perfect will obvisously utterly destroy it). Projectilles should do better dmg at range, i dont mind sitting at 40 or 50kms from a target (duh long range ship), but THAT is the dissadvantage, missing and doing crap dmg just makes it worse. Iam thinking of going raven, as no cap use (not even the 3 cap the 1400mm takes), hits at any range (so long range is sucky...oh no :/ )and can even do very good dmg when jammed with 6x cruise fof.... Come on ccp, if you dont make the 1400 any better, make my tempest faster or harder please, dont make me train caldari BS!!
/me has had his say. :)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
/|\.
'/\' The Wild West Made Me Quicker On The DRAW Than You |
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