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Suggestion: CCP please implement price floors and price ceilings

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Mykpilot	Posted - 2009.04.14 19:26:00 - [1] There should be minimum prices that one can ask to buy a module for, around the value of the reprocessing value "base cost". There should be price maximums for a region, like 300% the average cost over a period of time.
Kuar Z'thain Fraser's Finest	Posted - 2009.04.14 19:28:00 - [2] 0/10
Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts	Posted - 2009.04.14 19:29:00 - [3] gtfoplzkthx
LadyOfWrath Caldari One Stop Mining Shop One Stop Research	Posted - 2009.04.14 19:52:00 - [4] There use to be items in game which affected the maximum price of Tritanium. These were removed by CCP. This is a player driven economy. Get use to the laws of supply and demand. The MD and general community have fought long and hard to keep it that way. The less CCP interferes with what we do the better.
Kwint Sommer Caldari XERCORE No Apology	Posted - 2009.04.14 20:28:00 - [5] Your mother was a hamster, your father smelled of elderberries and your idea is incredably stupid. Stop posting inane threads like What are the big difference between a Command Ship and Logistic ship? I know your mother told you are a special snow flake but your every thought or question does not warrant its own thread.
SencneS Amarr Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2009.04.14 20:31:00 - [6] This would be a step in the wrong direction. Even if it was set extremely high, say 500%, you'd have the market move toward that 500% very quickly. As people know this is as high as the item will ever get. So we might as well push it there faster. Besides there are some price caps still in place, you just have to look for them. Amarr for Life
MilowFV Echo Heavy Industries Novus Ordo Mundi	Posted - 2009.04.14 20:36:00 - [7] Mykpilot why don't you train the skills to reprocess your own module and sell the material yourself. Then it will not matter to you if the price on an item is below material cost. See easy fix to your problem with out trying to change the game just for you.
Dzil Caldari Pirates in Silk Suits	Posted - 2009.04.14 20:56:00 - [8] Originally by: Kuar Z'thain 0/10 Unfortunately, this is no longer true. The true formula is something like x/(x+10), where x is the number of on topic posts that follow the completely lame troll attempt. In this case, there's already been 3 innocently helpful and meaning laden replies, so the score is 3/13, or about 2.3/10
Evthron Macyntire	Posted - 2009.04.14 21:07:00 - [9] Floor = Time + effort Ceiling = What you are willing to pay. amidoinitrite? ------------------------------ Sigs like this.

CCP Mitnal C C P	Posted - 2009.04.14 21:25:00 - [10] Moved to Features & Ideas. Mitnal Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us


Sir Elliot	Posted - 2009.04.14 21:25:00 - [11] 1.5/10 The troll used punctuation and line breaks. With a little work, you can evolve into an ogre.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.04.14 21:35:00 - [12] Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 14/04/2009 21:36:16 Originally by: Mykpilot There should be minimum prices that one can ask to buy a module for, around the value of the reprocessing value "base cost". There should be price maximums for a region, like 300% the average cost over a period of time. I agree. CCP could even implement dynamic "price floors" and "Price ceilings". They could use some fancy system like, say, capitalism, to regulate prices. If someone puts up an item worth far less than what it's listed for, this system could encourage other people to list similar items there at a lower price. It's such a ****ing good idea that I think real nations should adopt it.
Mortifiyr	Posted - 2009.04.14 22:11:00 - [13] Yeah, good idea if you want to promote shortages of items in demand and surpluses of junk no one wants.
Mykpilot	Posted - 2009.04.14 22:26:00 - [14] The reason for my suggestion is because there are often players who post sell order for items that are 1000% above the norm in order to catch someone not paying attention to what they are doing. It just takes up extra space on the market sheets than their needs to be. In addition "max price restrictions" could be market only and those who want sell above that could use contracts. The maximum price with a range of X% would adjust over time if the rate was increasing, as the average price increases. Its not like todays goverments use these policy in our "player driven markets" to make sure the market operates efficently. A 100% free market isn't what we have not in Eve anyways.
T'san Manaan	Posted - 2009.04.15 00:39:00 - [15] Eve has a free market that uses supply and demand to regulate prices on items. It is a very new and interesting concept but I'm sure it will work out in the end
Pang Grohl Gallente Sudo Corp	Posted - 2009.04.15 00:51:00 - [16] Originally by: Mykpilot The reason for my suggestion is because there are often players who post sell order for items that are 1000% above the norm in order to catch someone not paying attention to what they are doing. It just takes up extra space on the market sheets than their needs to be. In addition "max price restrictions" could be market only and those who want sell above that could use contracts. The maximum price with a range of X% would adjust over time if the rate was increasing, as the average price increases. Its not like todays goverments use these policy in our "player driven markets" to make sure the market operates efficently. A 100% free market isn't what we have not in Eve anyways. EVE is much closer to a free market than anything the civilized world has to offer. Frankly, if someone is being inattentive enough to pay 1000% of the normal market value then they deserve to pay. Occasionally, those 1000% markups are meant for people in dire need of a replacement "do-hickey" in a location that doesn't normally carry such things. Ironically, the market system already punishes people who do this in busy markets anyway. When an item is purchased, the full price paid is given to the player with the lowest priced sell order in the station where the order is filled. *** Si non adjuvas, noces (If you're not helping, you're hurting)
Manalapan Dynasty Banking	Posted - 2009.04.15 11:18:00 - [17] I think its a terrible idea. Firstly, as the guys previously have said those really out of the ordinary price ranges really never get filled, but more importantly we do not need something to put more load on an already stressed system especially when there is little to no benefit to it. Dynasty Banking
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.04.15 11:52:00 - [18] Sometimes there is not an item available in a region. I have yet not seen the case where an important item, i.e. a common ship type, was unavailable (or came with a too high price). The game provides a nice twist when some items can become unavailable. It supports the idea of manufacturing items yourself, and makes these items rare and valuable. However, you do get a warning message when prices are too low or too high. These warning messages are the price cap you are looking for. What you do not see is that besides from having rare items do you get some rare and crazy buyers and sellers, too. It is a feature. -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2009.04.15 11:55:00 - [19] This idea would put me out of business the minimal price of materials would barely give me profits of the product i want to sell at max pricing. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 6Apr09
Mykpilot	Posted - 2009.04.15 18:59:00 - [20] Edited by: Mykpilot on 15/04/2009 19:02:09 Quote: EVE is much closer to a free market than anything the civilized world has to offer. Its also much more simpler than anything in the civilized world. For EVE to be a true free market pretty much every service in the game would have to replaced with a player owned or run system. Then you still have the issue that CCP created the world and everything would be derived from raw materials and loot drops, thus they would still manipulate the market if they adjusted mining respawns and PvE content. Quote: Frankly, if someone is being inattentive enough to pay 1000% of the normal market value then they deserve to pay. I disagree on the grounds that the user didn't want to pay that price and wouldn't have given a better UI. The gap between the UI of EVE and a real life transaction shouldn't reward those who wish to exploit someone either with a lack of knowledge or a person being inattentive or overtired. With that said the EVE UI is great, but that doesn't mean it a perfect. Quote: Occasionally, those 1000% markups are meant for people in dire need of a replacement "do-hickey" in a location that doesn't normally carry such things. I can't think of a situation that isn't extremely unlikely for something like that to occur. The opportunity cost of traveling to a location with a normalized price is often the cost to switch to high sec jump clone or make the number of jumps to get that location. The players time would have to awfully valuable if they couldn't afford to get to a location that would offer goods at a normal or near normal price. With that said, there is the option of having price ceilings and floors put in place in empire space only and leaving null sec with unrestricted prices. Quote: This idea would put me out of business the minimal price of materials would barely give me profits of the product i want to sell at max pricing. Your business relies on a player willing to sell their modules at a price that is less the value of materials the player could get from reprocessing in the station? That makes no sense at all, since no player should make the decision to sell a module at a price lower than he can earn for reprocessing and selling the ores themselves. It often takes quite a bit a time for a player to know what the value of the sum of the ores and their relationship to the highest buy order in the market their in.

Sep'Shoni Gallente Carpe Diem inc. Crimson Dragons	Posted - 2009.04.15 19:32:00 - [21] Originally by: Mykpilot ... That makes no sense at all, since no player should make the decision to sell a module at a price lower than he can earn for reprocessing and selling the ores themselves. It often takes quite a bit a time for a player to know what the value of the sum of the ores and their relationship to the highest buy order in the market their in. What mission runners who buy ammo in mission systems for 25% or more above the region's usual sell orders are buying with their extra is is time -- time to run more missions instead of time spent hauling cheaper ammo in from somewhere else. What mission runners who sell loot and salvage to buy orders for 50% of build cost/reprocessing value are doing is again buying time -- time spent running more missions instead of time spent comparing charts/spreadsheets of buy orders and reprocessing yields. People who prefer making/buying and selling stuff over shooting things are happy to sell time to the people who prefer shooting things over making/buying and selling stuff. Both sides win. What's the problem? Sep'Shoni Mining ore and making stuff. Its not just a job, its an obsession.
Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts	Posted - 2009.04.15 20:56:00 - [22] Originally by: Mykpilot The reason for my suggestion is because there are often players who post sell order for items that are 1000% above the norm in order to catch someone not paying attention to what they are doing. It just takes up extra space on the market sheets than their needs to be. This would remove 90% of my income in game... And who are you to say my orders are 'just taking up space'... People regularly buy my 5m shuttles and 20k emp s, why should I be denied my awesome profits to protect stupid inattentive people who deserve to be liberated of their undeserved ISK? -------------------------------------------- Quote: EVE-Online... Too rough for ya? Don't like it? GTFO...
Krishan13	Posted - 2009.04.15 20:59:00 - [23] Yes, because anti-capitalistic price controls worked SO well in the 1970s. Gas lines were incredibly popular here in the USA. Idiot. Please learn economics before you troll again. The market is working much better now that such controls (like shuttles) were removed.
Mykpilot	Posted - 2009.04.15 22:16:00 - [24] Quote: This would remove 90% of my income in game... And who are you to say my orders are 'just taking up space'... People regularly buy my 5m shuttles and 20k emp s, why should I be denied my awesome profits to protect stupid inattentive people who deserve to be liberated of their undeserved ISK? This is the reason for the maximum price restriction. Activity in the market like that only serves to "trick" players into making the purchase. Quote: Yes, because anti-capitalistic price controls worked SO well in the 1970s. Gas lines were incredibly popular here in the USA. Idiot. Please learn economics before you troll again. The market is working much better now that such controls (like shuttles) were removed. While the price controls in the 70's didn't help the problem it wasn't the main problem. You are aware that the pricing restrictions I'm discussing is not at all like than the one you use your example? You are aware that the goverments still use effectively use price controls today, although again they are not really like the ones I'm suggesting?
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.04.15 22:48:00 - [25] EVE's market is designed as anarcho-capitalism in its extreme. Price restrictions just don't fit there. -------- Ideas for: Mining
Mykpilot	Posted - 2009.04.15 23:02:00 - [26] Eve's market isn't a pure free market as it is now. In addition I can remember at least one one time that CCP stepped in and shutdown a group of players who had a signficant influence on market prices because they control a large share of T2 BPOs. It apparent that CCP doesn't want monopolies forming.
Clygorn Minmatar	Posted - 2009.04.15 23:05:00 - [27] Edited by: Clygorn on 15/04/2009 23:06:09 Originally by: Mykpilot Edited by: Mykpilot on 15/04/2009 22:25:58 There should be minimum prices that one can ask to buy a module for, around the value of the reprocessing value "base cost". There should be price maximums for a region, like 300% the average cost over a period of time. I would fix the bidding prices. Just like the sotck market you have bids. per exemple with microsoft at 18$ you would have 15000 shares with a buying prices at 18.1 and 50000 with a selling price at 17.95$. In the real stock market nobody would be stupid enough to put an order on microsoft at 1$ when the actual price is 18$. In Eve you can do it and that's what I find wrong about it. So I would fix the buying and selling orders and make sure you can't put them at 1% or 1000000% of the average value. I think it would get rid of those people who spam the market with ridiculous values.
Dargo Weisse Darqsyde Exploration Limited	Posted - 2009.04.16 12:12:00 - [28] Originally by: Mortifiyr Yeah, good idea if you want to promote shortages of items in demand and surpluses of junk no one wants. ^This. Price floors would effectively kill the 'ScrapMan' mini-profession. These guys clear up a lot of unwanted junk drops from the universe and turn it into useful minerals. How does losing that sound? Sounds bad to me. Originally by: Mykpilot Eve's market isn't a pure free market as it is now. In addition I can remember at least one one time that CCP stepped in and shutdown a group of players who had a signficant influence on market prices because they control a large share of T2 BPOs. It apparent that CCP doesn't want monopolies forming. Sorry mate, you'll have to explain this to me. I'm no economics major but surely preventing monopolies forming prevents price-fixing - the very thing you are, in essence, asking for. Therefore making it much less of a 'free-market' economics model.
Mykpilot	Posted - 2009.04.16 13:11:00 - [29] Edited by: Mykpilot on 16/04/2009 13:16:57 Quote: ^This. Price floors would effectively kill the 'ScrapMan' mini-profession. These guys clear up a lot of unwanted junk drops from the universe and turn it into useful minerals. How does losing that sound? Sounds bad to me. No, the unwanted drops are still turned into the minerals by the players. Anyone can reprocess. Quote: Sorry mate, you'll have to explain this to me. I'm no economics major but surely preventing monopolies forming prevents price-fixing - the very thing you are, in essence, asking for. Therefore making it much less of a 'free-market' economics model. A monopoly can be complex and comes in various form but in short a monopoly controls all inputs and therefore can set a price for a "need" item at whatever they choose as long as their is no close substitue. The monopoly/player is setting the price. What I am asking for is for the "empire" set market restricitons on absurd price, ones that are so high the only intention of the seller is the "trick" an inattentive buyer into purchasing the item. What does that really promote? It certainly not something that socially acceptable in the real world. The price mins would prevent a buy order from being posted at 1 isk, in essense the min buy order should only be set a the value of the reprocess materials for an item. Otherwise why would the player sell the module at a loss when there is NO COST to reprocessing the item? These are system in place to prevent tricking a player who may be inattentive or not have the time to understand the value of his items. Everything reprocessed is still going back onto the market it just going back in ores and refinables. The issue is there is currently too many markets in relation to players, the free market system is going to have flaws when this happens. I find it hard to understand how people for some reason seem to think that it is an infallible system.
Dargo Weisse Darqsyde Exploration Limited	Posted - 2009.04.16 13:49:00 - [30] Thanks for the explanation Mykpilot. So if i understand correctly, what you are asking for are extra measures to safeguard people who are either too lazy to research the market before buying or who aren't paying much attention before forking over their isk? Sorry mate, can't agree to those measures for either reason, RL is pretty screwed up because of this 'Nanny Culture' and I'd like to avoid that kind of thing creeping into Eve. If you screw up it should cost you, and people should 'Man Up' and say 'Yeah that was stupid of me' learn the lesson and move on. Not look to blame a system that does what it's supposed to do or add unnecessary layers of 'Idiot-proofing' And as for the argument for price floors please read again what i said reference the scrapman mini-profession. These guys put a lot of time into learning the required skills to be able to refine the junk drops at a profit. And the logistics of getting it all to one place to refine is quite intensive (tried it myself for a couple of months but really needs a small team/corp to be a profitable venture.) Price floors (based upon approx mineral worth) would be almost impossible to calculate to any degree of accuracy, as the value in minerals from reprocessing is calculated from a lot of different factors dependent upon the skills/ standings of the individual and the constant shifting of market values (regionally and universally). Sorry bud, both lame ducks as far as I'm concerned



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