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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Mykpilot
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Posted - 2009.04.17 12:41:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Tvaishk Suzuki Just to add more things to this How do you propose caping T2 items? quite a few of those are already selling on the market for over 100% of the build/ invention price in the lowest sell orders, and lets not forget that there are the odd t2 BOP's out there still and at current selling prices there probably past the 300% build cost limit, and there build cost is different from those people who invent there t2.
Price max is self adjusting and is set at or above where the demand curve would intersect the x-axis on a supply/demand graph. Price min is self adjusting and is sets at or below where the supply curve intersects the x-axis.
Originally by: Tvaishk Suzuki And how is 0.0 going to be affected by this? and lowsec for that matter, often a lot of the price hiking your complaining about is in lowsec where supply on those materials is not as high, it is also more dangerous to put them there so would loesec have to have the same restrictions as highsec? and if so how the hell would you implement that given lowsec and highsec share the same region boundrys.
I'd have to review the boundries of the maps, but from my experience, regions were either almost all empire or almost all null sec. But this would be a problem.
Quote: This solution your proposing would just make more problems in the long run not to mention the impracticability in programing and managing the Database.
I can't see this being something that any second year computer science student couldn't accomplish. I have no idea what additional database manangement your refering to that would be worth mentioning. But, this isn't the point, technical implementation isn't what the topic is about, every idea that posted in F&I doesn't need to come with an algorithim and action plan for implementing the idea.
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Mykpilot
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Posted - 2009.04.17 12:52:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Durzel Let's take your first question - "why would a player make the decision to sell at a lower price than the value he can receive with no opportunity cost". There can be numerous reasons why someone might want to post a "lower price than he can get". Disregarding for a moment the fact that "lower price than he can get" is an objective assessment based on the current market, perhaps that player couldn't be bothered to travel to one of the major hubs? Maybe that player just wanted to sell the item quickly at a price he/she knew would put them at the top of the pecking order? There are so many variables involved.
The example your quoting is not being quoted properly becaues I stated that we were in Jita. There was no opportunity cost, so you can't say maybe the player was not in Jita or the item was in another location thus the player now has an opportunity cost.
Originally by: Durzel Then we have "what good does it do the market to have a sell order posted for 400000000 isk, when the market is perfectly competitive?". Well, items can (and do) cost differing amounts of ISK depending on where they are located, either due to the rarity of the item in that region, or whatever. Again the market really does take care of itself in this regard.
People who try and game the market by artificially inflating the price of something (beyond your ideological price ceiling) will soon find themselves with one of two things happening (or both): 1) People unwilling to pay the amount being asked and 2) Other traders willing to accept less for the item and posting a lower sell order price. In either event the organic market manages itself, prices do not stay artificially high for long simply because in a competitive market there will always be someone else out there willing to produce whatever it is you're producing for less profit.
As has been remarked to you several times - you've invented a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. The market is self-regulating.
(Teras Menac's posts really spell it out far better than I am capable of explaining it, I suggest you re-read them)
I fully acknowledge that player will do their best to avoid purchasing items at price they are not willing to play. I understand supply and demand and that the market will adjust naturally and people will ultimately pay what for an item at fair price (where supply meets demand). But people are under the assumption that an unregulated market is without flaws, that its infallible and it can't be guided to better efficency.
What I seem to unable to convey is that my price restrictions would not affect any price that would fall on the demand and supply curve. This is probably the most important thing to take away.
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Sep'Shoni
Gallente Carpe Diem inc. Crimson Dragons
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Posted - 2009.04.17 14:05:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Mykpilot ... What I seem to unable to convey is that my price restrictions would not affect any price that would fall on the demand and supply curve. This is probably the most important thing to take away.
You can't convey that because it can't happen.
Supply, demand, and price are ALWAYS linked.
When the government sets the price the other two factors compensate -- which is why you got long lines for scare/practically non-existent items in the Soviet Union.
And if the government actually manages to command the official economy supply, demand, and price move to the black market instead.
Even in Eve it would be possible for me to drop into a mission hub with a supply of scarce, desirable ammo and offer it here and now via player-to-player trade for the attic-level price that demand sets.
The only legitimate prices floor is the price below which no one is willing to provide a supply. The only legitimate price ceiling is the price above which no one is willing to buy.
The Eve market sets those just fine without help from any "government" restrictions.
Sep'Shoni
Mining ore and making stuff. Its not just a job, its an obsession. |
Mykpilot
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Posted - 2009.04.17 15:11:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Mykpilot on 17/04/2009 15:11:47
Originally by: Sep'Shoni You can't convey that because it can't happen.
It can though. If I had the power to say no one can set a sell order for a cap recharger I for 9999999999 ISK and no one can set a buy order for a cap recharger I for 0.01 ISK. I would have implemented a extreme version of what I want to do without affecting the market in anyway.
Originally by: Sep'Shoni Supply, demand, and price are ALWAYS linked.
When the government sets the price the other two factors compensate -- which is why you got long lines for scare/practically non-existent items in the Soviet Union.
And if the government actually manages to command the official economy supply, demand, and price move to the black market instead.
Even in Eve it would be possible for me to drop into a mission hub with a supply of scarce, desirable ammo and offer it here and now via player-to-player trade for the attic-level price that demand sets.
I don't disagree with any of this but it has nothing to do with putting restriction on prices that are outside the demand and supply curve y-intercepts.
Originally by: Sep'Shoni The only legitimate prices floor is the price below which no one is willing to provide a supply. The only legitimate price ceiling is the price above which no one is willing to buy.
Yes, this is what the suggested policy would implement.
Originally by: Sep'Shoni The Eve market sets those just fine without help from any "government" restrictions.
It actually doesn't if you travel around to various markets a look at the absurd prices that are so high that its only set to that price to catch a player making a mistake on a buy order or buy orders so low that it tries to take advantage of a player with imperfect knowledge or making a mistake.
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Hariya
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Posted - 2009.04.17 16:38:00 -
[65]
Being able to scam and by controlling supply & demand twist the prices in the markets is integral part of the game. If nothing it should be encouraged more as a pure form of pvp.
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Mykpilot
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Posted - 2009.04.17 16:52:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Mykpilot on 17/04/2009 16:56:09
Quote: Being able to scam and by controlling supply & demand twist the prices in the markets is integral part of the game. If nothing it should be encouraged more as a pure form of pvp.
Agreed, but this has nothing to do with preventing players from affecting supply and demand.
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Sep'Shoni
Gallente Carpe Diem inc. Crimson Dragons
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Posted - 2009.04.17 17:52:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Mykpilot ...It actually doesn't if you travel around to various markets a look at the absurd prices that are so high that its only set to that price to catch a player making a mistake on a buy order or buy orders so low that it tries to take advantage of a player with imperfect knowledge or making a mistake.
No, ...
Prices set at those "absurd" levels are actually highly transparent attempts to manipulate the regional average price in order to make one's sell order/buy order look more attractive in relation to said regional average.
Players who pay the slightest attention can see right through the tactic. Players who pay no attention deserve to fall for it.
I don't do it myself -- both because I only have one set of ethics in game or out and because I think its too transparent to be truly effective -- but having people do such things is not a problem that requires a solution imposed from on high.
Sep'Shoni
Mining ore and making stuff. Its not just a job, its an obsession. |
Mykpilot
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Posted - 2009.04.17 17:58:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Mykpilot on 17/04/2009 17:59:51 If the change could be done, would it make the game better or worse? Why?
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Tvaishk Suzuki
Long Night Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.17 17:59:00 -
[69]
Just taking an example here one which I've actually done recently you find yourself in your pod in a station on a hostile system lucky I hadn't picked up the high value item I want to pick up.
So how am I going to get it out of the system... I look on the market, now the item isnt big so I decide to look for shuttles..... given I normally set my market browser to show cheapest at the top and yes there are some cheep shuttles on there though sadly there 5 jumps away in a high sec mission hub...and I'm out here in lowsec.
So I look for the closes shuttle out there and yes luckily there is 10 in the station I'm in though it will cost me 5 mil.... now I wouldn't normally buy a shuttle for that much but I need to get out of here and the item I have will cover that cost when I sell it, so I buy the shuttle.
Now I've just bought a shuttle for at the very least over 500% of the average price, and for a completely legitimate reason. I have no doubt that that shuttle would not of been there if the seller could not put in there at such a high price, it just wouldn't of been worth there time getting it out there.
What your proposing will stop total valid price hikes, the market works as it is sure you come across deliberately raised prices aiming to catch someone but just shake your head and tut to yourself and move on. The market now works putting limits on it will kill it.
Btw I am a second year comp student =) I'm not saying it cant be done though the additional database calls could be a problem, its mainly the fact that it would be horrendously time consuming to impliment and manage. ---
Lieutenant, Mixed Metaphor Appliance Man |
Mykpilot
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Posted - 2009.04.17 18:09:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Tvaishk Suzuki Just taking an example here one which I've actually done recently you find yourself in your pod in a station on a hostile system lucky I hadn't picked up the high value item I want to pick up.
So how am I going to get it out of the system... I look on the market, now the item isnt big so I decide to look for shuttles..... given I normally set my market browser to show cheapest at the top and yes there are some cheep shuttles on there though sadly there 5 jumps away in a high sec mission hub...and I'm out here in lowsec.
So I look for the closes shuttle out there and yes luckily there is 10 in the station I'm in though it will cost me 5 mil.... now I wouldn't normally buy a shuttle for that much but I need to get out of here and the item I have will cover that cost when I sell it, so I buy the shuttle.
Now I've just bought a shuttle for at the very least over 500% of the average price, and for a completely legitimate reason. I have no doubt that that shuttle would not of been there if the seller could not put in there at such a high price, it just wouldn't of been worth there time getting it out there.
What your proposing will stop total valid price hikes, the market works as it is sure you come across deliberately raised prices aiming to catch someone but just shake your head and tut to yourself and move on. The market now works putting limits on it will kill it.
Restrictions are in empire space only.
Originally by: Tvaishk Suzuki Btw I am a second year comp student =) I'm not saying it cant be done though the additional database calls could be a problem, its mainly the fact that it would be horrendously time consuming to impliment and manage.
Define "time consuming to impliment and manage" even if the student was average as long as he was working with a language he's familiar with, and had co-workers to bounce ideas off it should only take a week to have written, debugged and beautified. I don't know where the horrible managing is coming from, the system would be self adjusting and whoever looks after the market fulltime would deal with any bumps that may occur. But it doesn't matter because again technicial hurdles aren't the point here.
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BillyBob Esq
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Posted - 2009.04.17 18:25:00 -
[71]
So you're entire argument is based off of the exploited noobs? Is this eve's equivalent of ZOMG THINK OF THE CHILDREN? You want to make rules for the sake of making rules, and what you're talking about will have a massive impact in the game as different people have massively different skills, have different reasons for wanting to sell at non-equilibrium prices, and you want to do it all because some people aren't quick enough to notice that there's a few extra zeros in the price or have their market set to show by jumps instead of price? Did you get scammed? Is that it?
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Mykpilot
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Posted - 2009.04.17 19:45:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Mykpilot on 17/04/2009 19:46:32 Other benefits include... Less items listed in the market make easier to view Less items listed in the market could make the market respond quicker when other times it would be laggy. Take a tool away from scammers.
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Teras Menac
Gallente Action Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.17 21:38:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Mykpilot Edited by: Mykpilot on 17/04/2009 19:46:32 Other benefits include... Less items listed in the market make easier to view Less items listed in the market could make the market respond quicker when other times it would be laggy. Take a tool away from scammers.
Except that your balancing system would require extra database calls for every item for every region, so it wouldn't really reduce the lag in any significant way.
As to your question before, I can read a supply/demand graph but I was never trained in how to generate them.
But again, the problem is you have a solution where no problem exists. bottom line, no noob has the cash to buy a Vexor for 4,000,000,000, so they aren't the ones victimized by these scams. Really the people who would get saved by this are the people who trade while drunk.
But you didn't address my commodity spike question. You haven't stated precisely what the time period for establishing the mean would be. By eliminating commodities from your price controls you leave it open to massive spiking in the price of commodities. Trust me if your system were implemented I'd set myself to proactively breaking it. I don't have the isk myself to do it, but I know exactly how to do it and I know plenty of very wealthy industrialists who with the proper motivation could be encouraged to do destroy the Tritanium market in an effort to break this idea. What would result is a cabal of rich industrialists who capitalize off of your price controls by dominating the price of tritanium, who make money hand over fist by taking advantage of the mission loot sell orders that preceded the manufactured commodity spike. Trust me, if I get 10b isk, and hook up with ten other people who have 10b isk we could change the prices on everything in every region in Eve. An artificial price ceiling just gives us incentive to do it.
Be careful when messing with the market PVPers because we'll wage war on you, and it won't benefit the noobs in any way shape or form. Like most idealistic economic ideas you are leaving proactive opposition out of your calculations. There are those of who would want to break it and would work toward doing it, or we'd work toward exploiting it, as was explained.
So if you develop the price controls over a long period of time they don't account for wild short-term fluctuations, and if you account for wild short term fluctuations, then it will become arbitrary because your price caps will fluctuate wildly. In short you make the market less adaptable.
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Mykpilot
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Posted - 2009.04.17 22:08:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Teras Menac Except that your balancing system would require extra database calls for every item for every region, so it wouldn't really reduce the lag in any significant way.
Its hard to say how it would balance out really, but for every item there would be two additional pieces of information required to be called on each item which is the price min/max versus the number of listings (and the information that is required with each one).
Originally by: Teras Menac As to your question before, I can read a supply/demand graph but I was never trained in how to generate them.
But again, the problem is you have a solution where no problem exists. bottom line, no noob has the cash to buy a Vexor for 4,000,000,000, so they aren't the ones victimized by these scams. Really the people who would get saved by this are the people who trade while drunk.
I see your point here, experienced players with the cash are aware of this pitfalls and thus will be able to avoid them. However, in the long run, even a experienced player is liable to make the mistake of buying something severly overpriced. Because the single posting of sell order at a high price last 90 days and how many people will be subject to seeing the pricing over that time.
Maybe an alternative solution would be to give a player a buyer's remorse option, say after 15 mins the player if they haven't moved the item can return it for a full refund less a deductable like 1%.
Originally by: Teras Menac But you didn't address my commodity spike question. You haven't stated precisely what the time period for establishing the mean would be. By eliminating commodities from your price controls you leave it open to massive spiking in the price of commodities. Trust me if your system were implemented I'd set myself to proactively breaking it. I don't have the isk myself to do it, but I know exactly how to do it and I know plenty of very wealthy industrialists who with the proper motivation could be encouraged to do destroy the Tritanium market in an effort to break this idea. What would result is a cabal of rich industrialists who capitalize off of your price controls by dominating the price of tritanium, who make money hand over fist by taking advantage of the mission loot sell orders that preceded the manufactured commodity spike. Trust me, if I get 10b isk, and hook up with ten other people who have 10b isk we could change the prices on everything in every region in Eve. An artificial price ceiling just gives us incentive to do it.
I believe the market stats that are available in EVE are updated daily (ie average price, average price of x days, quantity demaned,etc) so this would be update at the same time.
100B isk isn't really a lot of money given the number of players in the market. How much isk is generate each hour? The average number of players online is abotu 30 000. If each player is making 1M ISK, thats 30B an hour, if each player is making 10M ISK, thats 300B an hour. 100B is but a small fraction of what moves through the eve economy.
In addition the supply/demand rules would apply if the you cornered the market on trit and increased the price via supply shortage then everyone and their dog would be out mining trit to match demand. It would be unlikely that a few players would be able to keep up the escapade against the entire mining community. Also keep in mind for modules there are close substitues that players would use if the player made modules were too expensive such as T1 basics and named "dropped" modules that would be used in the short run.
The kicker is that CCP has stepped in and shut down players who pulled stunts like this before, so if they feel that a group of players are effectively undermining the market they'll step in.
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Mykpilot
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Posted - 2009.04.17 22:13:00 -
[75]
Quote: Be careful when messing with the market PVPers because we'll wage war on you, and it won't benefit the noobs in any way shape or form. Like most idealistic economic ideas you are leaving proactive opposition out of your calculations. There are those of who would want to break it and would work toward doing it, or we'd work toward exploiting it, as was explained.
So if you develop the price controls over a long period of time they don't account for wild short-term fluctuations, and if you account for wild short term fluctuations, then it will become arbitrary because your price caps will fluctuate wildly. In short you make the market less adaptable.
Try to break the market, like I said before CCP will stop players who are successfully influencing the market in a way that negatively affects most players. Eitherway, If players to try to run the market for 24 hours before the server goes into downtime and the new scales are put into place they can be my guest. I can't see it happening given the number of alternatives that players would have in the short run and the stocks that they may hold themselves.
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Tvaishk Suzuki
Long Night Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.17 22:31:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Mykpilot
Originally by: Tvaishk Suzuki Just taking an example here one which I've actually done recently you find yourself in your pod in a station on a hostile system lucky I hadn't picked up the high value item I want to pick up.
So how am I going to get it out of the system... I look on the market, now the item isnt big so I decide to look for shuttles..... given I normally set my market browser to show cheapest at the top and yes there are some cheep shuttles on there though sadly there 5 jumps away in a high sec mission hub...and I'm out here in lowsec.
So I look for the closes shuttle out there and yes luckily there is 10 in the station I'm in though it will cost me 5 mil.... now I wouldn't normally buy a shuttle for that much but I need to get out of here and the item I have will cover that cost when I sell it, so I buy the shuttle.
Now I've just bought a shuttle for at the very least over 500% of the average price, and for a completely legitimate reason. I have no doubt that that shuttle would not of been there if the seller could not put in there at such a high price, it just wouldn't of been worth there time getting it out there.
What your proposing will stop total valid price hikes, the market works as it is sure you come across deliberately raised prices aiming to catch someone but just shake your head and tut to yourself and move on. The market now works putting limits on it will kill it.
Restrictions are in empire space only.
The lowsec systems I'm talking about are in empire hell all of lowsec is empire basically, and if your trying to only have this applying to high sec then it won't work even if it could as most regions are made up of lowsec and highsec systems.
Btw its not just a fue extra Database calls your talking about here its a complete multitude of them, take just a single t1 item you will be calling up A) what is used to build it b) what price those minerals are (this will consist of multiple calls for each type of mineral used, + others I'm not up for working out. all this to just put one module on the market, and don't say you can just take the prices every dt or something like that and have them run fixed for the day minral prices can change so fast that just wouldnt work. ---
Lieutenant, Mixed Metaphor Appliance Man |
Dasfry
Caldari Demio's Corporation 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.17 22:44:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Mykpilot There should be minimum prices that one can ask to buy a module for, around the value of the reprocessing value "base cost". There should be price maximums for a region, like 300% the average cost over a period of time.
NO.
What you're suggesting is not necessary.
When you do this, it is considered a market inefficiency. Also it goes against the idea of a player driven market
*********** Dasfry, Director Demio's Corporation
Military Tactics |
Mykpilot
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Posted - 2009.04.17 22:54:00 -
[78]
Quote: The lowsec systems I'm talking about are in empire hell all of lowsec is empire basically, and if your trying to only have this applying to high sec then it won't work even if it could as most regions are made up of lowsec and highsec systems.
I not 100% clear on your example, but you in a pod in a station in 0.1 - 0.4. There are reds/pirates in local? They are willing to take a security rating hit to kill you? Your corp is not able to assist. The know your there and they are going to get you? Shuttle or not your probably not getting out there if you try and make a run for it. And why aren't there shuttles in the station? Aren't they generate by the game in unlimited numbers? Sounds like a log and come back later day or where the heck is your corp?
A shuttle is 10K you paid 5M or 5000K, you paid a 50000% mark up.
Btw its not just a fue extra Database calls your talking about here its a complete multitude of them, take just a single t1 item you will be calling up A) what is used to build it b) what price those minerals are (this will consist of multiple calls for each type of mineral used, + others I'm not up for working out. all this to just put one module on the market, and don't say you can just take the prices every dt or something like that and have them run fixed for the day minral prices can change so fast that just wouldnt work. I really do think the update on DT would work. You really going to have to show proof that the consumer market are that responsive. I'm pretty sure the consumer market has a lag time in which demand and supply curve adjust slowly, I know this is true for macroeconomic policies. Would 24 hours be enough time for explotation to occur where players couldn't switch to close substitue, were unwilling to wait till DT regardless of cost, didn't have any stocks in reserve, every single market was effected in this window of 24 hours. Doesn't seem reasonable.
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Mykpilot
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Posted - 2009.04.17 22:58:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Dasfry
Originally by: Mykpilot There should be minimum prices that one can ask to buy a module for, around the value of the reprocessing value "base cost". There should be price maximums for a region, like 300% the average cost over a period of time.
NO.
What you're suggesting is not necessary.
When you do this, it is considered a market inefficiency. Also it goes against the idea of a player driven market
You probably haven't read through most of the thread but you also don't understand the placement points of the price restrictions don't fall on either the supply or demand side of the curve and therefore create no deadweight loss (market inefficeny).
And its not against the idea of a player driven market, because price controls (like the one your reffering to) are implemented in the countries we may live in like Canada and the USA. And I would consider this markets "player driven" and I would consider the spirit of the market to be "player driven" with the guidance of goverment.
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Teras Menac
Gallente Action Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.17 23:56:00 -
[80]
What I am referring to is manipulating the Tritanium market, and believe me 100b would be more than enough to adjust the entire tritanium market in the whole game. Your idea is based off of a longitudinal time-scale, but it doesn't really take into account transaction velocity. Remember, if you are adjusting the Tritanium market, you can be profiting off of it at the same time, so that 100b is not zero-sum. If you spend 100b fast enough it can be a trillion worth of transactions in a single day. That's why even though I have never had 1b in my wallet, I definitely have multiple billions in transactions over the course of my Eve career.
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Mykpilot
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Posted - 2009.04.18 03:03:00 -
[81]
I guess I'm just familiar enough with price corner techniques in Eve. Cornering the market has always failed in the text book examples either because the market caught up or someone shut them down. I just don't understand how your technique of inflating trit prices in market with price restriction on modules would be any different than in a market without.
You buy up all the trit in every market... to create a shortage You place the highest buy orders in every market... to prevent supply from entering the market Then I'm not sure where you go from here.... You buy up all the modules/ships that you plan to target? You make modules that use trit and sell them at high prices?
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Bullageddon
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.18 04:34:00 -
[82]
your ideas are bad. === This Space For Lease or Sale. |
Tvaishk Suzuki
Long Night Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.18 08:53:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Mykpilot Edited by: Mykpilot on 17/04/2009 23:02:22
Quote: The lowsec systems I'm talking about are in empire hell all of lowsec is empire basically, and if your trying to only have this applying to high sec then it won't work even if it could as most regions are made up of lowsec and highsec systems.
I not 100% clear on your example, but you in a pod in a station in 0.1 - 0.4. There are reds/pirates in local? They are willing to take a security rating hit to kill you? Your corp is not able to assist. The know your there and they are going to get you? Shuttle or not your probably not getting out there if you try and make a run for it. And why aren't there shuttles in the station? Aren't they generate by the game in unlimited numbers? Sounds like a log and come back later day or where the heck is your corp? The example if I'm in the ball park seems a little bit far stretched to assume no close substitues are available because people weren't allowed to price items at 50000% above the market price.
But what your saying is your opportunity cost in a specific scenario could be worth it to you to pay a enourmous mark up on an item because it still benefits you more than doing with out it.
Errrmmm shuttles are player made now, ccp removed the limit on the market that shuttles where having, all shuttles you see now are Player made.
And yes there had been pirates but that was a gate camp on the gate to high sec going out of lowsec was fine. ---
Lieutenant, Mixed Metaphor Appliance Man |
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.04.18 10:36:00 -
[84]
this idea doesnt follow ccps policy for eve online, player freedom has been the mantra for quite a while, last time we had a trit cap due to npcs items they removed that cap and allowed the prices to soar to 5 isk a unit, next cap will be at 8.3 when that happens named item will also probably shift to become player made only.
Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 6Apr09 |
Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari Endemic Aggression Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.04.18 12:13:00 -
[85]
Bad Idea.
Actually some stuff should be fixed to drive market in pretty opposite direction. Especially low sec area is suffering since we have safe hi sec to produce almost whatever stuff you want without ever entering low sec.
If you work hard and take risks for it you should get to ask whatever price you see right for your troubles.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.18 14:09:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Mykpilot Eve's market isn't a pure free market as it is now. In addition I can remember at least one one time that CCP stepped in and shutdown a group of players who had a signficant influence on market prices because they control a large share of T2 BPOs. It apparent that CCP doesn't want monopolies forming.
They shut them down because they were selling IKS for RL money.
The fact that they were using the T2 BPO to get the isk had no effect on CCP decision.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.18 14:55:00 -
[87]
Quote: yes there are some cheep shuttles on there though sadly there 5 jumps away in a high sec mission hub...and I'm out here in lowsec.
Originally by: Mykpilot Restrictions are in empire space only.
You have show again and again in this thread that you don't know much of EVE.
Empire includes low sec and high sec. Low sec isn't 0.0 as you seem to think.
Baseprice for items in contract has nothing to do with market prices of the minerals. It is a value derivate from the old base, theoretical, mineral values set as guidelines from CCP:
Tritanium 2 isk, pyerite 8, mexallon 32 and so on.
Note that T2 items base value value is calculated only on the asteroid mineral content, not on the moon minerals contents.
So that base value is: a) fixed; b) not related to the actual market value of the item; c) don't include a lot of other factors, like, for example, the manufacturing slot rent or the market fees.
0.0 or null sec is outside of empire.
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Teras Menac
Gallente Action Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.18 19:07:00 -
[88]
I won't tell you the method for cornering the market on trit because then you'd know how to do it. ;) Your assumptions as to how it would be done are not how it would be done. It isn't really done because the hard part is getting 10 wealthy industrialists to devote the lion's share of their wealth to the same goal. Like I said though, if you provided incentive, then well that's useful to the scheme.
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Mykpilot
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Posted - 2009.04.19 04:13:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Mykpilot on 19/04/2009 04:13:43
Originally by: Teras Menac I won't tell you the method for cornering the market on trit because then you'd know how to do it. ;) Your assumptions as to how it would be done are not how it would be done. It isn't really done because the hard part is getting 10 wealthy industrialists to devote the lion's share of their wealth to the same goal. Like I said though, if you provided incentive, then well that's useful to the scheme.
Right... To prevent me from cornering the market (or least knowing how its done) if a feature that has no hope in hell of getting implemented... And its not like your keeping anything a secert, this tactic isn't something that isn't in public domain already. Its not going to work period. Thats all.
The rule for a monopoly is that your MUST control nearly all of the inputs and there be no close substitue for the product (or the products it affects). And you can't possible control all the minerals by buying it all faster than the market would increase supply to meet demand with the fact that there are substitues.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.19 04:58:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Sep'Shoni No, ...
Prices set at those "absurd" levels are actually highly transparent attempts to manipulate the regional average price in order to make one's sell order/buy order look more attractive in relation to said regional average.
Regional average is based on bought/sold items only... Not buy/sale orders.
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