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Uchikage	Posted - 2004.08.27 12:24:00 - [1] What methods have you, my fellow pilots, used to defend your frigates/ elite frigates from missiles, especially heavy and cruise missiles? Do defender missiles work? When is missile agility coming? _______________________________________________ "...which will become my sword in the very near future." "Bish, you don't have a future." Who Dares, Wins -SAS
Uchikage	Posted - 2004.08.27 12:24:00 - [2] What methods have you, my fellow pilots, used to defend your frigates/ elite frigates from missiles, especially heavy and cruise missiles? Do defender missiles work? When is missile agility coming? _______________________________________________ "...which will become my sword in the very near future." "Bish, you don't have a future." Who Dares, Wins -SAS
Arud	Posted - 2004.08.27 12:26:00 - [3] speed is the most common defense some use defenders though, not very many use smartbombs since the ones you can fit have such a short radius
Arud	Posted - 2004.08.27 12:26:00 - [4] speed is the most common defense some use defenders though, not very many use smartbombs since the ones you can fit have such a short radius
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2004.08.27 12:26:00 - [5] smartbombs or MWD......and defender, but fit it in rocket lancher(faster ROF) B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2004.08.27 12:26:00 - [6] smartbombs or MWD......and defender, but fit it in rocket lancher(faster ROF) B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Sarinas	Posted - 2004.08.27 12:26:00 - [7] Sure, Defenders work fine but only one at a time. If you have a Raven after your ass and you don't have MWD, your Defenders won't cut it. --- I bring you joy, I bring you pain, I bring you some sunshine And some rain.
Sarinas	Posted - 2004.08.27 12:26:00 - [8] Sure, Defenders work fine but only one at a time. If you have a Raven after your ass and you don't have MWD, your Defenders won't cut it. --- I bring you joy, I bring you pain, I bring you some sunshine And some rain.
Heelay Ashrum	Posted - 2004.08.27 12:34:00 - [9] 1nm Mwd
Heelay Ashrum	Posted - 2004.08.27 12:34:00 - [10] 1nm Mwd
Jim Steele	Posted - 2004.08.27 12:47:00 - [11] dont bother with defenders as they suck and are a waste of a missile hardpoint, they go after the same missile.. the best defence is speed so fit either a 1MN MWD or 10 MN Afterburner.. its possible to run them forever with high skills thus being effectively immune to missiles.. just watch you dont get webbed, then your screwed... another defence against missiles would be to tank the damage but this is hard in frigates you could maby put a armour repairer or shield booster on for when a missile does hit you but realy a MWD is ESSENTIAL for frigate combat Death to the Galante
Jim Steele	Posted - 2004.08.27 12:47:00 - [12] dont bother with defenders as they suck and are a waste of a missile hardpoint, they go after the same missile.. the best defence is speed so fit either a 1MN MWD or 10 MN Afterburner.. its possible to run them forever with high skills thus being effectively immune to missiles.. just watch you dont get webbed, then your screwed... another defence against missiles would be to tank the damage but this is hard in frigates you could maby put a armour repairer or shield booster on for when a missile does hit you but realy a MWD is ESSENTIAL for frigate combat Death to the Galante
Shenrogar	Posted - 2004.08.27 13:04:00 - [13] if you go with a 10mn ab you wont get screwed over by turrets as it doesnt take your sig radius and ram it into the ground, or something to that effect
Shenrogar	Posted - 2004.08.27 13:04:00 - [14] if you go with a 10mn ab you wont get screwed over by turrets as it doesnt take your sig radius and ram it into the ground, or something to that effect
Uchikage	Posted - 2004.08.27 13:04:00 - [15] Edited by: Uchikage on 27/08/2004 13:09:15 Actually, the problem is that Minmatar interceptors cannot run a MWD and a warp disruptor full time. They just don't have the cap. Those mods take 5 cap/s each, even without factoring in armor repairers. The 10mn ab kills your pg so you can't fit weapons, and the 1mn mwd kills your cap. So either you have to die to missiles (mwd off), or let your prey escape (warp disruptor off), or have no weapons (10mn ab). That's why I'm wondering if there are other ways than speed to defend. _______________________________________________ "...which will become my sword in the very near future." "Bish, you don't have a future." Who Dares, Wins -SAS
Uchikage	Posted - 2004.08.27 13:04:00 - [16] Edited by: Uchikage on 27/08/2004 13:09:15 Actually, the problem is that Minmatar interceptors cannot run a MWD and a warp disruptor full time. They just don't have the cap. Those mods take 5 cap/s each, even without factoring in armor repairers. The 10mn ab kills your pg so you can't fit weapons, and the 1mn mwd kills your cap. So either you have to die to missiles (mwd off), or let your prey escape (warp disruptor off), or have no weapons (10mn ab). That's why I'm wondering if there are other ways than speed to defend. _______________________________________________ "...which will become my sword in the very near future." "Bish, you don't have a future." Who Dares, Wins -SAS
Anpi	Posted - 2004.08.27 13:06:00 - [17] This will all change with the proposed missilechanges right? Missiles will get a velocity-boost making MWD useless to get away, unless you put three on your ship(not for the faint of heart;). But the damage against frigates will get nerfed enough to make it possible to tank cruisemissiles. Battleships will most likely start mounting standard or assault-launchers in that case though, and then I suppose you are toast...
Anpi	Posted - 2004.08.27 13:06:00 - [18] This will all change with the proposed missilechanges right? Missiles will get a velocity-boost making MWD useless to get away, unless you put three on your ship(not for the faint of heart;). But the damage against frigates will get nerfed enough to make it possible to tank cruisemissiles. Battleships will most likely start mounting standard or assault-launchers in that case though, and then I suppose you are toast...
X'Alor	Posted - 2004.08.27 17:04:00 - [19] Defender missles work great ........... when used properly. things you must know about using defenders and having them work. the biggest thing and most important. once a defender aquires a lock.........it will not re lock a new target if that first target is destroyed while it is in route to it. so using a super high rate of fire launcher to spu out as many defenders as possible does you absolutely no good. using 2 fast ROF launchers is even worse. the assault launchers seem to work very well with defnders and their rate of fire. what a defender needs to be able to do in order to work is......... launch, aquire lock, travel to target, hit target and explode before next defender missle or just as next defender is launched. what happens with multiple defender launchers or fast rate of fire launchers........... 5 defenders get launched before the first one hits and destroys target........the next 4 have aquired lock on that same target. target is destroyed by first missle launched and the other 4 are now wasted and will not destroy or re lock anything. they then try to return to your ship and orbit about you....... in a BS this is a deadly moment as they tend to orbit you so close that they bump you and disrupt your speed and line.......could possibly keep you from warping in some situations. to make them work you need to give one enough time to lock and hit before next can launch. if you can do that.....they will all target and hit that target
X'Alor	Posted - 2004.08.27 17:04:00 - [20] Defender missles work great ........... when used properly. things you must know about using defenders and having them work. the biggest thing and most important. once a defender aquires a lock.........it will not re lock a new target if that first target is destroyed while it is in route to it. so using a super high rate of fire launcher to spu out as many defenders as possible does you absolutely no good. using 2 fast ROF launchers is even worse. the assault launchers seem to work very well with defnders and their rate of fire. what a defender needs to be able to do in order to work is......... launch, aquire lock, travel to target, hit target and explode before next defender missle or just as next defender is launched. what happens with multiple defender launchers or fast rate of fire launchers........... 5 defenders get launched before the first one hits and destroys target........the next 4 have aquired lock on that same target. target is destroyed by first missle launched and the other 4 are now wasted and will not destroy or re lock anything. they then try to return to your ship and orbit about you....... in a BS this is a deadly moment as they tend to orbit you so close that they bump you and disrupt your speed and line.......could possibly keep you from warping in some situations. to make them work you need to give one enough time to lock and hit before next can launch. if you can do that.....they will all target and hit that target
BigJim Beef	Posted - 2004.08.27 19:43:00 - [21] Originally by: Uchikage Edited by: Uchikage on 27/08/2004 13:09:15 Actually, the problem is that Minmatar interceptors cannot run a MWD and a warp disruptor full time. They just don't have the cap. Those mods take 5 cap/s each, even without factoring in armor repairers. The 10mn ab kills your pg so you can't fit weapons, and the 1mn mwd kills your cap. So either you have to die to missiles (mwd off), or let your prey escape (warp disruptor off), or have no weapons (10mn ab). That's why I'm wondering if there are other ways than speed to defend. I'd suggest taking a look at cap skills if you havn't already, i forget the names, but there's one skill that increases cap by a % per level (5% iirc) and one that boosts recharge by a similar amount. Both of those at lvl 4 or 5 (one is rank 3 or 4, so you might not want to train that to 5) and it'll help a lot. Cap power relays (and power diagnostics to a lesser extent) will help as well, as will a small nosferatu. High speed maneuvering will also help, as it reduces the power drain of mwd, at lvl 4 i think it's 36 energy every 10 seconds as opposed to 45. And yes, i own both a Siletto and a Claw and can run mwd and a scramber indefinately (or at least long enough).
BigJim Beef	Posted - 2004.08.27 19:43:00 - [22] Originally by: Uchikage Edited by: Uchikage on 27/08/2004 13:09:15 Actually, the problem is that Minmatar interceptors cannot run a MWD and a warp disruptor full time. They just don't have the cap. Those mods take 5 cap/s each, even without factoring in armor repairers. The 10mn ab kills your pg so you can't fit weapons, and the 1mn mwd kills your cap. So either you have to die to missiles (mwd off), or let your prey escape (warp disruptor off), or have no weapons (10mn ab). That's why I'm wondering if there are other ways than speed to defend. I'd suggest taking a look at cap skills if you havn't already, i forget the names, but there's one skill that increases cap by a % per level (5% iirc) and one that boosts recharge by a similar amount. Both of those at lvl 4 or 5 (one is rank 3 or 4, so you might not want to train that to 5) and it'll help a lot. Cap power relays (and power diagnostics to a lesser extent) will help as well, as will a small nosferatu. High speed maneuvering will also help, as it reduces the power drain of mwd, at lvl 4 i think it's 36 energy every 10 seconds as opposed to 45. And yes, i own both a Siletto and a Claw and can run mwd and a scramber indefinately (or at least long enough).
flummox	Posted - 2004.08.27 19:59:00 - [23] Edited by: flummox on 27/08/2004 20:04:28 Edited by: flummox on 27/08/2004 20:02:09 i have no problems with using defenders at all. recommend using a size launcher less than what you are up against. f.ex; rocket w/def vs. light missles, standard w/def vs. heavies... once took out two 90k Moa's and 4 kestrels with my Merlin using a standard with defenders, and didn't take one point of damage from missles. i only have Defender Skill lvl 1 though. perhaps there is a bork with the skill where it gets worse the more levels you have? like ECM units... defenders in rocket launchers work great, in my opinion. i don't mind wasting 2 or 3 defenders per heavy missle. i like to make sure i don't get hit. and they are soooooo cheap to make. currently have 420k defenders sitting at a base... lol p.s. i was sitting dead still during that battle... p.s.s. granted, the kestrels were only firing rockets, and never got in under 10k to actually hit me. which is bad. but the Moa's were spamming heavies and lights all the live long day... there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on...
flummox	Posted - 2004.08.27 19:59:00 - [24] Edited by: flummox on 27/08/2004 20:04:28 Edited by: flummox on 27/08/2004 20:02:09 i have no problems with using defenders at all. recommend using a size launcher less than what you are up against. f.ex; rocket w/def vs. light missles, standard w/def vs. heavies... once took out two 90k Moa's and 4 kestrels with my Merlin using a standard with defenders, and didn't take one point of damage from missles. i only have Defender Skill lvl 1 though. perhaps there is a bork with the skill where it gets worse the more levels you have? like ECM units... defenders in rocket launchers work great, in my opinion. i don't mind wasting 2 or 3 defenders per heavy missle. i like to make sure i don't get hit. and they are soooooo cheap to make. currently have 420k defenders sitting at a base... lol p.s. i was sitting dead still during that battle... p.s.s. granted, the kestrels were only firing rockets, and never got in under 10k to actually hit me. which is bad. but the Moa's were spamming heavies and lights all the live long day... there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on...
piercer	Posted - 2004.08.27 20:08:00 - [25] Originally by: Shenrogar if you go with a 10mn ab you wont get screwed over by turrets as it doesnt take your sig radius and ram it into the ground, or something to that effect TBH The mwd sig radius thingy actually doesnt matter much on frigates, i have used my claw with mwd and rifter with mwd and not been hit by cruisers, heavy drones have a hard time, medium do, and small have an ok time. it doesnt rly matter on frigates. ---------------------------------------- (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Bunny had an accident. Bunny lost his head.
piercer	Posted - 2004.08.27 20:08:00 - [26] Originally by: Shenrogar if you go with a 10mn ab you wont get screwed over by turrets as it doesnt take your sig radius and ram it into the ground, or something to that effect TBH The mwd sig radius thingy actually doesnt matter much on frigates, i have used my claw with mwd and rifter with mwd and not been hit by cruisers, heavy drones have a hard time, medium do, and small have an ok time. it doesnt rly matter on frigates. ---------------------------------------- (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Bunny had an accident. Bunny lost his head.
BigJim Beef	Posted - 2004.08.27 20:38:00 - [27] The skills i was referring to are Energy Systems Operation (Rank 1) and Energy Management (Rank 3). Get those to lvl 5 and 4 respectively and you'll have an easier time of it
BigJim Beef	Posted - 2004.08.27 20:38:00 - [28] The skills i was referring to are Energy Systems Operation (Rank 1) and Energy Management (Rank 3). Get those to lvl 5 and 4 respectively and you'll have an easier time of it
Duke Karas	Posted - 2004.08.27 22:26:00 - [29] Originally by: Uchikage Edited by: Uchikage on 27/08/2004 13:09:15 Actually, the problem is that Minmatar interceptors cannot run a MWD and a warp disruptor full time. They just don't have the cap. Those mods take 5 cap/s each, even without factoring in armor repairers. The 10mn ab kills your pg so you can't fit weapons, and the 1mn mwd kills your cap. So either you have to die to missiles (mwd off), or let your prey escape (warp disruptor off), or have no weapons (10mn ab). That's why I'm wondering if there are other ways than speed to defend. Not true. My Claw can run an MWD and a 20 km Warp Disruptor for unlimited time.
Duke Karas	Posted - 2004.08.27 22:26:00 - [30] Originally by: Uchikage Edited by: Uchikage on 27/08/2004 13:09:15 Actually, the problem is that Minmatar interceptors cannot run a MWD and a warp disruptor full time. They just don't have the cap. Those mods take 5 cap/s each, even without factoring in armor repairers. The 10mn ab kills your pg so you can't fit weapons, and the 1mn mwd kills your cap. So either you have to die to missiles (mwd off), or let your prey escape (warp disruptor off), or have no weapons (10mn ab). That's why I'm wondering if there are other ways than speed to defend. Not true. My Claw can run an MWD and a 20 km Warp Disruptor for unlimited time.

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