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Mizuki Yori
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Posted - 2009.04.15 17:52:00 -
[1]
Greetings,
First and foremost, when I started this app, I was not aware of Ceres. I wish I had because I would have otherwise tackled a different project for EVE. I've held off from looking over its source for logical reasons. To whomever is developing Ceres, I commend them on their effort and hope that possibly we may collaborate with each other in the future.
I originally made a post about this in the EVE Technology Lab section but realized not many Mac users read that forum so I figured this would be a better place.
I'm developing an EVEMon like application for Mac users complete with skill planning, financial tools and possibly ship fitting. Currently my program is in alpha while I focus on getting it to be stable enough for a beta release (possibly by the 19th of this month). As of this writing, there are several things lacking such as error handling and documentation.
I'm developing this program under 10.4 build settings with the hopes of it working for 10.4 and 10.5 (doing "garbage collection" the hard way). However, the few times I've tested it under 10.4 I had issues with bindings so to be honest, I just don't know if it will work but you can try.
In its current stage, the app is just a viewer. No other functionality other than monitoring the current skill in training. I'll hopefully be starting work on the skill planner next week. also, just an FYI, the program doesn't tell you this (yet) but when first launched it requires about 30 seconds of building the Core Data database for the first time. It would probably help if you downloaded the source and ran it from XCode as you can track the progress in the console. This is something I'll hopefully fix by tonight.
For all the up to date info on my status, you can check out my development blog at emsdev.blogspot.com. You'll find the link to the source there.
Hope to hear from all of you.
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Aurora Morgan
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.15 18:28:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Mizuki Yori
First and foremost, when I started this app, I was not aware of Ceres. I wish I had because I would have otherwise tackled a different project for EVE. I've held off from looking over its source for logical reasons. To whomever is developing Ceres, I commend them on their effort and hope that possibly we may collaborate with each other in the future
Don't worry about it, a multitude of choice is always nice.
Keep working, and if you need any help. Don't hesitate to ask.
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Ami Nia
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.15 18:46:00 -
[3]
Thanks for posting. And even more thanks for working on EvE SW tools for Macs.
I'll read your blog when I have time (maybe even later this night if I manage to, but I'll be working very very long hours for a delivery scheduled tomorrow late morning).
Collaboration between other Mac developers is of course good. But I do not think that totally merging competing applications is a good idea. I'd rather see both you and Aurora (by the way: did cocoarookie definitively give up?) keep working separately and then see some collaboration in the "infrastructure". For example once both of you have a somewhat stable data architecture, you should compare the lower layer and maybe both take a "pause" to merge that part into a common schema and tool, separating it out into a framework project.
The framework level project will by necessity be different than what you both have developed earlier. But this is not necessarily a bad thing. While both will need to restructure some code, the framework itself will be much more "abstract" and "complete" for the very fact that it is a merge of different ideas. This will then make it much more robust and subsequent tools will be able to draw onto a common, solid, existing base infrastructure.
I see this as a good thing. Do not do it the MS way. Compete/differentiate at the user level features, not at the lower layer. There's no need, for example, to have 20 different tool developers work on converting a new database dump from CCP to the different underlying schemes. All of them but one is actually wasting time and effort, IMO.
Military experts call it a Templar, a fighter drone used by Amarr carriers.
-- Sheriff Jones
apochribba
-- Aurora Morgan
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Mizuki Yori
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Posted - 2009.04.18 07:17:00 -
[4]
Beta is up, as promised. From my own personal testing it appears very stable.
As before, head over to the dev blog and click on the SourceForge link. No need to download any source and compile.
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tealkra pankhurst
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Posted - 2009.04.18 16:17:00 -
[5]
Very nice! Thank you for your efforts and we look forward to seeing the app develop.
Teal
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CommanderData211
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Posted - 2009.04.18 20:31:00 -
[6]
Got it. Love it.
Couple things.
The skill planner will not open up for me at all. Don't know if this is an issue because it's not complete or if it's a bug. Figured I'd let you know.
Other than that, you should definitely expand it further and add ship fitting into it. It would be amazing to have an EVEmon and EFT all in one app for the mac.
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Vlad Mezkan
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Posted - 2009.04.19 05:17:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Vlad Mezkan on 19/04/2009 05:20:53
Originally by: CommanderData211
Got it. Love it.
Couple things.
The skill planner will not open up for me at all. Don't know if this is an issue because it's not complete or if it's a bug. Figured I'd let you know.
Other than that, you should definitely expand it further and add ship fitting into it. It would be amazing to have an EVEmon and EFT all in one app for the mac.
I probably should have removed the menu option for it as it's something that I haven't started work on. So no, it's not a bug. Just incomplete. Oh, and I should have posted this on my main, Mizuki Yori. Sorry if I confused anyone.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.19 12:02:00 -
[8]
In my (professional) opinion, I'd say just run with 10.5 builds, as your target audience will already be using the latest version of osx for the EVE client.
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Dansel
Gallente
Creative Cookie Procuring
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.04.20 12:00:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Dansel on 20/04/2009 12:01:15
I've noticed when you launch the app and you get the loading characters screen, the process showed a 100% CPU use.
Oterwise it looks great, and the skillque interface is really good too
Keep it up!
EDIT:
I took a look at the icon file, but since i don't have illutrator, could you (or someone else) do me a favor and port it to photoshop.
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Yay!! |
Aurora Morgan
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.20 14:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Dansel
I took a look at the icon file, but since i don't have illutrator, could you (or someone else) do me a favor and port it to photoshop.
Just change the extension to .pdf and you should be able to open it.
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Vlad Mezkan
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Posted - 2009.04.20 22:15:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Vlad Mezkan on 20/04/2009 22:15:12
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
In my (professional) opinion, I'd say just run with 10.5 builds, as your target audience will already be using the latest version of osx for the EVE client.
You're right, I should: http://emsdev.blogspot.com/2009/04/to-tiger-or-not-to-tiger.html
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Ami Nia
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.21 00:04:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Vlad Mezkan
You're right, I should: http://emsdev.blogspot.com/2009/04/to-tiger-or-not-to-tiger.html
Shakespeare!!!
You mention testing as the big motivator. I'd say: switch to GC mode, forget all the autoreleases, address ownership, reference counting and other stupid memory managment details. Within a week you'll cry if you even happen to THINK what writing Tiger code involves.
Military experts call it a Templar, a fighter drone used by Amarr carriers.
-- Sheriff Jones
apochribba
-- Aurora Morgan
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Carinosa Peligrosa
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Posted - 2009.04.26 21:04:00 -
[13]
Wow, this is a GREAT start!
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Bogu D
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Posted - 2009.05.05 09:07:00 -
[14]
I meant to post this sooner but you sir rock!
Great start for this program. I hope you're still motivated enough to continue the development.
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Mizuki Yori
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Posted - 2009.05.11 17:20:00 -
[15]
For those who haven't kept up with my development blog from the start, I have some important information on the continuation of this project.
It was originally started as a graduation requirement to be done over the course of about 10 weeks. Personally, I'm really happy with what I've accomplished in these past couple of months and I hope the EVE Mac fanbase can say the same. The final step in the completion of this project is a ~40 page report.
Recently I submitted release 40 of my beta up on SourceForge. This release implements some amount of skill planning and adjusting the order of planned skills. It will be my last one for the next couple of weeks as this report will be consuming all of my time. This doesn't mean the development of the project will end there. When the report and the project finally gets submitted to my college, it is at that time I'm able to accept more participants.
On the subject of participants, there are a few positions I'd like to have filled. This isn't anything official but here's what I'm currently thinking of:
Designer-
While this encompasses mostly user interface design and user experience stuff, I'm looking for a novice to experienced programmer. They don't necessarily have to know Cocoa/Objective-C (although it is preferred) but should at least be familiar with use cases and have designed UIs in the past. A few people have come forward willing to help out with this field with either no knowledge of the limitations programmers face nor a grasp of what the community wants rather what they would think is cool. This is a Mac app and I want it to retain the look and feel of one.
Assistant Developer-
Here's where I need an experienced Cocoa developer. People who insist on using Carbon need not apply. Familiarity with Core Data, Core Animation and working with Cocoa Bindings are all huge pluses. 2 of the 3 is pretty good, too. Come to think of it, I'd probably want two assistant developers.
If you're seriously interested in contributing, you can get my contact info from my development blog. I'll send you more details about what kinds of things I'm looking for. I really would like to take this project all the way and make something that rivals EVEMon.
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Maria Kalista
Amarr
Emerald Forest Securities
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Posted - 2009.05.12 07:05:00 -
[16]
Whooooow!!! 
It just keeps on getting better & better with EVE these days. First Clear Skies 2 and now this, a bloody f-ing (pardon my French) working Mac OS X compatible skill planner!
W00T!
Great job! I'll send some iskies when I've payed for my next Plex.
Originally by: Jacharian
This sounds like a bad idea. I'm in.
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Skyynxnex
Minmatar
The Sanitarium Choir
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:17:00 -
[17]
This looks awesome for your first beta.
More people will get on board as this get more features I would love to see a ship fitter integrated into this.
But in general great first effort ill be keeping this on hand.
I dont know about anyone else but i think an isk donation is in order to keep this going.
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Maria Kalista
Amarr
Emerald Forest Securities
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Posted - 2009.05.17 09:09:00 -
[18]
I got a problem at the moment with EMS.
It is stuck in 'updating characters' after I stopped training on a main and creating an alt on that same account and have that training now.
Anyone any idea's how to get it rolling again?
Originally by: Jacharian
This sounds like a bad idea. I'm in.
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Mizuki Yori
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Posted - 2009.05.17 12:30:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Maria Kalista
I got a problem at the moment with EMS.
It is stuck in 'updating characters' after I stopped training on a main and creating an alt on that same account and have that training now.
Anyone any idea's how to get it rolling again?
From what I understand, the EVE API bugs out if you pause training on one character and start something on another on the same account. I personally don't know the nature of this bug and so unfortunately it's not something I've debugged and compensated for, yet.
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Senyru Suru
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.05.17 17:09:00 -
[20]
can confirm that other apps have had this problem - i believe since the 1.1 update
certainly, it was affect the Capsuleer app
the solution i think is to make sure that the training queues are empty for any alts which are not currently training - not just paused, but that you've removed any pending items too.
-- ---
one day we're all gonna die, and then we'll see who's laughing! |
Dansel
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.05.18 08:40:00 -
[21]
Found a bug, well 2 of them, but only one is a pure bug.
If you start the application, open the skill planner, then close the main window, EMS crashes when you close the skillplanner.
Also, If yuo close the main window, there is no way to bring it back up, other than quit -> start
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Yay!! |
Maar'sha
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Posted - 2009.05.19 06:29:00 -
[22]
Nice work 
I'm a french EVE player and I've discover your job.
Impressive !
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Rottenator
The Littlest Hobos
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.06.17 07:07:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Rottenator on 17/06/2009 07:08:37
Edited by: Rottenator on 17/06/2009 07:07:56
This app does look very promising.
I just read the OPs blog and understand motivation to push this app further is a bit low.
That would be a shame as it looks really promising. Though at this point it doesn't do more than other apps available (either Ceres or the iPhone apps iClone and Capsuleer).
If the skillplanner would be taken to a working state it really adds something to the Mac experience.
So keep up the good work, but only if you enjoy doing it! |
Vlad Mezkan
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Posted - 2009.06.17 16:45:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Vlad Mezkan on 17/06/2009 16:46:17
*Deleted*
(Annoyed that I keep posting with the wrong character...) |
Mizuki Yori
Caldari
Dark-Void
Carpe-Diem
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Posted - 2009.06.17 16:47:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Rottenator
Edited by: Rottenator on 17/06/2009 07:08:37
Edited by: Rottenator on 17/06/2009 07:07:56
This app does look very promising.
I just read the OPs blog and understand motivation to push this app further is a bit low.
That would be a shame as it looks really promising. Though at this point it doesn't do more than other apps available (either Ceres or the iPhone apps iClone and Capsuleer).
If the skillplanner would be taken to a working state it really adds something to the Mac experience.
So keep up the good work, but only if you enjoy doing it!
You don't like the visual graphs? No other Mac program has something similar. That component was the one I worked hardest on and was most mentally challenging.
The skill planner was what I was in the middle of working on before I abruptly stopped developing. I actually picked up a bit recently.
As of this moment, I'm doing a somewhat large UI overhaul. I saw that new app that's being developed and decided I like how he arranged some of his stuff. I hope he won't mind me shamelessly ripping off some of his ideas.
The skill planner is next to be completed. To be honest, there isn't much code to do to get it to work right (I hope). Even more so, though, is I'm going to try to take an even bigger advantage of Core Animation and expand on the visual graph. As of now there's far too much information in that one screen and I'm trying to think of clever ways to hide details. I do have somethings brewing in my mind.  |
Mizuki Yori
Caldari
Dark-Void
Carpe-Diem
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Posted - 2009.06.19 07:38:00 -
[26]
I got really into continuing development this week and spent hours on redesign. Although it's not as thoroughly tested as the previous version (I did find some bugs that nobody on average would run into) I'm pretty confident in its integrity. Also, everything loads much faster. Character updates are almost instantaneous.
Next stop: finish the skill planner.
Possibility: Redesign the Core Data model. It's great but lately I've been doing too many hacks/workarounds to keep it going. This one, too, will probably take a while to do.
Aside from that, I changed up the Skill Planner window. You'll notice there isn't a description box anymore. I'm transitioning over to have the details of the skill, including its description, be shown when you mouse-over the skill in the browser and/or the box in the tree view. Possibly add in nifty core animation stuff to make the user experience better. |
Kilabie
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Posted - 2009.06.19 10:42:00 -
[27]
It crashed everytime I tried to start it after the new version (Just replaced the old one)
I removed the macsuite files in ~/Library/preferences and in ~/Library/Cache/com.vadim.EVEMacSuite (think this was the paths)
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This app looks really nice too, thanks.
In another thread for another app, I added these features to the wish list:
- Load battleclinic loadouts ( http://evemon.battleclinic.com:8000/trac/changeset/1382 )
- Upload skills to ineve.net
- Let the application automatically look for new updates
- What clone do I have
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Mizuki Yori
Caldari
Dark-Void
Carpe-Diem
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Posted - 2009.06.19 13:32:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Kilabie
- Load battleclinic loadouts ( http://evemon.battleclinic.com:8000/trac/changeset/1382 )
- Upload skills to ineve.net
- Let the application automatically look for new updates
- What clone do I have
- An overview of all my characters, where I can see currently training and end time.
1. I went onto the battleclinic website and the loadouts there apparently aren't working. I can't really go much further if I can't see the data that's supposed to be exported.
2. Shouldn't be too hard.
3. I'm not really sure how i can do this. Currently, the source is held at SourceForge. I'm gonna need help to get something like this going.
4. Will look into it.
5. I'm not sure if this is necessary. I don't want to pack too many features and make the app look messy. Convince me better.
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Rottenator
The Littlest Hobos
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.06.23 09:50:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Mizuki Yori
You don't like the visual graphs? No other Mac program has something similar. That component was the one I worked hardest on and was most mentally challenging.
Hmm ... I apparently failed to notice something. Could you be a bit more specific? So far I didn't see anything new-ish. That is either good because you app blends in on the whole Mac look'n feel, or I really failed to notice fancy things.
Originally by: Mizuki Yori
Originally by: Kilabie
- Let the application automatically look for new updates
3. I'm not really sure how i can do this. Currently, the source is held at SourceForge. I'm gonna need help to get something like this going.
Take a look at the 'sparkle' framework: http://sparkle.andymatuschak.org |
Fei Valentyne
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2009.06.24 10:52:00 -
[30]
so firstly, it's great news to hear that you're continuing on with this project
i thought you'd made some good progress earlier and it was a shame to see the app stalled in a not-quite-there state.
really like what you've done with the latest build though - top work!
i've just downloaded the latest build and i'm trying it out - shall post any thoughts i have below:
- error on startup, couldn't read the database file i think, unexpected format. so i trashed the ~\Library\Applications Support\Eve Mac Suite\ folder - i'd previously used build40 so i guess you have new fields in your data files. no biggie
- new character screen
- if EMS starts and there are no characters, the main window flashes up for a second, and then disappears. you could prompt the user to begin adding characters by bringing up the Add New Character window at that point, instead of leaving no windows showing
- when a user account has multiple characters, would it be possible to select more than one in the Add New Character screen and import them all in one go? I tried shift-clicking and cmd-clicking for multiple select but neither worked. (it's just that i have 3 accounts with 2 chars each - it's a bit repetative hitting cmd-N over and over).
- can the first character in the list be auto-selected? that way, if you have only one character, you can click Search and then Select straight away? (also, hitting the return key on that screen should trigger the select button)
- main window
- i really liked the old style, but i think this new landscape version looks even better. blends in with apps like Mail and Safari much better
- i managed to cause the app to crash, i was clicking on several of the items in the Current Skills list and it crashed trying to expand them - but i have not been able to replicate it. it might have been updating the characters as I had only just imported them all, so might just have been me trying to do too many things at once, hence why i can't repeat it
- the queue for this character isn't showing up correctly - it only has a timeline bar for the first skill, yet it's the last one in the list that is currently being trained
- skill planner window
- gotta say, i really really like the graph. although the bright primary colours are a little overwhelming, but i like the way they show you which skills are the next ones you're able to learn. but then, using lighter shades probably won't look any better. i'm trying to think of a more "OS X"-y way of doing the same thing...
- i guess you're aware that it kills the app when you close the skill planner window, yes?
"You know the first rule of combat? Shoot them before they shoot you. " |
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