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Maud Dib
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Posted - 2004.08.27 13:09:00 -
[1]
I have noticed that much of the discussions around piracy and pvp in general revolve around the concept of a fair fight.
There is no such thing as a fair fight.
There are differences in skill points, modules and combat exp.
Then there is the biggest differences, player intelligence and aptitude for EVE combat.
I have a friend who is a tanker in the US army. He is a decorated war vet and terrible at EVE combat. For some reason he just doesn't get it.
So lets just lose this idea of a fair fight because there isn't one to be found.
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Maud Dib
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Posted - 2004.08.27 13:09:00 -
[2]
I have noticed that much of the discussions around piracy and pvp in general revolve around the concept of a fair fight.
There is no such thing as a fair fight.
There are differences in skill points, modules and combat exp.
Then there is the biggest differences, player intelligence and aptitude for EVE combat.
I have a friend who is a tanker in the US army. He is a decorated war vet and terrible at EVE combat. For some reason he just doesn't get it.
So lets just lose this idea of a fair fight because there isn't one to be found.
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Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2004.08.27 13:15:00 -
[3]
Agreed.
Fair fight: no such thing.
Fair chance: another matter
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Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2004.08.27 13:15:00 -
[4]
Agreed.
Fair fight: no such thing.
Fair chance: another matter
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Gundog Prime
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Posted - 2004.08.27 13:20:00 -
[5]
I have heard people say that those who don't fight a 'fair' fight have no skillz...
I think what some people seem to fail to grasp is that NOT fighting in so called 'fair' fights is a skill in itself 
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[email protected]
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BEWARE THE CHEAP PAINT SIG
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Joshua Calvert, the true gamer's gamer |
Gundog Prime
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Posted - 2004.08.27 13:20:00 -
[6]
I have heard people say that those who don't fight a 'fair' fight have no skillz...
I think what some people seem to fail to grasp is that NOT fighting in so called 'fair' fights is a skill in itself
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[email protected]
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BEWARE THE CHEAP PAINT SIG
--
Joshua Calvert, the true gamer's gamer |
Miso
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Posted - 2004.08.27 13:23:00 -
[7]
People who cry "that wasn't a fair fight" are just ****ed cos they got ganked. Fair fighting is for losers. You'd think that after you'd just lost your ship, you'd want to retain some integrity too, instead of crying in local about it and looking like a ****. 
I just don't understand some people.
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Dead
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Miso
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Posted - 2004.08.27 13:23:00 -
[8]
People who cry "that wasn't a fair fight" are just ****ed cos they got ganked. Fair fighting is for losers. You'd think that after you'd just lost your ship, you'd want to retain some integrity too, instead of crying in local about it and looking like a ****.
I just don't understand some people.
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Dead
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Seleene
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Posted - 2004.08.27 13:24:00 -
[9]
100% agreement.
Let's cut the game crap for a second and be serious:
I am ex-military, as is almost every member of my corp. We have ex-Army, Air Force and Marine real life experiences to draw from. This concept of people thinking that combat is about being fair or that war is some noble concept where lone pilots square off is just fantasy. When at war, an aggressor uses every single advantage available to utterly crush an enemy.
These ideals are mirrored in EVE. Superior tactics, feints leading to ambushes, misdirection... these are all just tools for victory. Anyone who gets upset they got owned should take a step back and ask themselves if the roles had been reversed what they would have done differently.
Not a damn thing. Every single military commander in this game will and should use every advantage they have short of actually exploiting the game mechanic, be it numerical , a matter of experience or just plain out thinking your enemy.
I can see how sometimes the big alliances like SA or CA might want to stage a good slugfest, but 99% of PvP is about ganking and killing your foe while suffering minimal damage yourself.
It's like this in real life. It's like this in EVE. "Fair fight"? Even the 'roids don't have a chance to defend against the evil mining lasers. What's fair about that? 
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T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
Seleene
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Posted - 2004.08.27 13:24:00 -
[10]
100% agreement.
Let's cut the game crap for a second and be serious:
I am ex-military, as is almost every member of my corp. We have ex-Army, Air Force and Marine real life experiences to draw from. This concept of people thinking that combat is about being fair or that war is some noble concept where lone pilots square off is just fantasy. When at war, an aggressor uses every single advantage available to utterly crush an enemy.
These ideals are mirrored in EVE. Superior tactics, feints leading to ambushes, misdirection... these are all just tools for victory. Anyone who gets upset they got owned should take a step back and ask themselves if the roles had been reversed what they would have done differently.
Not a damn thing. Every single military commander in this game will and should use every advantage they have short of actually exploiting the game mechanic, be it numerical , a matter of experience or just plain out thinking your enemy.
I can see how sometimes the big alliances like SA or CA might want to stage a good slugfest, but 99% of PvP is about ganking and killing your foe while suffering minimal damage yourself.
It's like this in real life. It's like this in EVE. "Fair fight"? Even the 'roids don't have a chance to defend against the evil mining lasers. What's fair about that?
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T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
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Ulendar
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Posted - 2004.08.27 13:24:00 -
[11]
Actually...the biggest advantage you can have in PVP is your characters skills. You can say whatever you want about 'skillz' but in EVE 'skillz' don't mean much if your character doesn't have any.
What you do in EVE is grow accustomed to PVP and learn how to fit your ship...
I find that its alot like playing a tabletop card game like magic the gathering or star trek or what have you.
Also there is PVP and PVP...you can go out and attack lone fighters (as a pirate) and have little 1v1's or 1v2's or you can go out with a group of buddies and have some small skirmishes with other bands of friends/corp or sit at some gate and just gank whatever comes by and then there is the large fleet battle blobwar thing where people shoot with megalongrange ammo for puny damage at eachother from 100+ km away. :P
There is all sort of PVP in this game really but none of it is really 'fair', no fight ever is. If you pick a fight with a pro bodybuilder and get stumped into a bloodstain i guess thats not really fair either cause he has bigger muscles...
I can't really say i have seen alot of people complain about fair fights though. If you take out all the sore loosers there aren't alot of people left who are complaining about non fair fights ;)
 Originally by: cashman
It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this.
It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
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Ulendar
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Posted - 2004.08.27 13:24:00 -
[12]
Actually...the biggest advantage you can have in PVP is your characters skills. You can say whatever you want about 'skillz' but in EVE 'skillz' don't mean much if your character doesn't have any.
What you do in EVE is grow accustomed to PVP and learn how to fit your ship...
I find that its alot like playing a tabletop card game like magic the gathering or star trek or what have you.
Also there is PVP and PVP...you can go out and attack lone fighters (as a pirate) and have little 1v1's or 1v2's or you can go out with a group of buddies and have some small skirmishes with other bands of friends/corp or sit at some gate and just gank whatever comes by and then there is the large fleet battle blobwar thing where people shoot with megalongrange ammo for puny damage at eachother from 100+ km away. :P
There is all sort of PVP in this game really but none of it is really 'fair', no fight ever is. If you pick a fight with a pro bodybuilder and get stumped into a bloodstain i guess thats not really fair either cause he has bigger muscles...
I can't really say i have seen alot of people complain about fair fights though. If you take out all the sore loosers there aren't alot of people left who are complaining about non fair fights ;)
Originally by: cashman
It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this.
It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.08.27 13:33:00 -
[13]
fair fight = all depends on personal skills and so
imho nearly everyfight is a fair fight, both have the same possibilities
Wanna fly with me?
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.08.27 13:33:00 -
[14]
fair fight = all depends on personal skills and so
imho nearly everyfight is a fair fight, both have the same possibilities
Wanna fly with me?
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ErrorS
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Posted - 2004.08.27 13:42:00 -
[15]
I never understood people complaining about people not fighting fair.. made no sense to me
but whatever, with only 4 months under my belt I am still a newb. So I have no right to tell some of these 8+ month veterans that they're complaints are stupid.
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I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |
ErrorS
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Posted - 2004.08.27 13:42:00 -
[16]
I never understood people complaining about people not fighting fair.. made no sense to me
but whatever, with only 4 months under my belt I am still a newb. So I have no right to tell some of these 8+ month veterans that they're complaints are stupid.
________
I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |
Pychian Vanervi
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Posted - 2004.08.27 13:46:00 -
[17]
Agreed.
I think the only real factor in PvP is experience. You can think you have seen it all but until you have, then you are just a sitting duck until you experience it.
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It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
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Pychian Vanervi
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Posted - 2004.08.27 13:46:00 -
[18]
Agreed.
I think the only real factor in PvP is experience. You can think you have seen it all but until you have, then you are just a sitting duck until you experience it.
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It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.27 13:59:00 -
[19]
took you long enought to figure it 
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.27 13:59:00 -
[20]
took you long enought to figure it
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Latex Mistress
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Posted - 2004.08.27 14:08:00 -
[21]
Fair
Read the definition and you begin to see that the words "fair" and "fight" don't ever belong next to one another. A "fight" in EVE implies a war, maybe not a declared war, but the end result is that somebody is gonna die, so even if there were any rules, they fly right out the window. When you lose in 0.0, you don't just get your nose bloodied: you're lucky if you escape w/ your pod.
So let all the carebears and whiners understand this: losing sucks, and your opponent is going to do everything in their power to make sure that you don't stand a chance. The only exception that I see in this is 3 Apocabomb's sitting at a gate playing disco and insta-podding you. This is a game, and PvP is very much part of that, but insta-podding any and everything that comes through a gate isn't PvP, it's not even cool.  But if it gets too popular, it'll get nerfed.
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
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Latex Mistress
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Posted - 2004.08.27 14:08:00 -
[22]
Fair
Read the definition and you begin to see that the words "fair" and "fight" don't ever belong next to one another. A "fight" in EVE implies a war, maybe not a declared war, but the end result is that somebody is gonna die, so even if there were any rules, they fly right out the window. When you lose in 0.0, you don't just get your nose bloodied: you're lucky if you escape w/ your pod.
So let all the carebears and whiners understand this: losing sucks, and your opponent is going to do everything in their power to make sure that you don't stand a chance. The only exception that I see in this is 3 Apocabomb's sitting at a gate playing disco and insta-podding you. This is a game, and PvP is very much part of that, but insta-podding any and everything that comes through a gate isn't PvP, it's not even cool. But if it gets too popular, it'll get nerfed.
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
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Miso
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Posted - 2004.08.27 14:08:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Siddy
took you long enought to figure it
No, we're trying to point out to others that cry about it on the forums al the time. Try reading the thread before posting
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Dead
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Miso
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Posted - 2004.08.27 14:08:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Siddy
took you long enought to figure it
No, we're trying to point out to others that cry about it on the forums al the time. Try reading the thread before posting
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Dead
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Tarm
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Posted - 2004.08.27 14:43:00 -
[25]
If you've found yourself in a fair fight you've done something wrong and need to smack your scouts.
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Tarm
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Posted - 2004.08.27 14:43:00 -
[26]
If you've found yourself in a fair fight you've done something wrong and need to smack your scouts.
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Bhaal
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Posted - 2004.08.27 14:46:00 -
[27]
I agree...
You guys know I fight you on almost everything concerning "pirating" in this game (so the DEV's don't let it turn into a free for all gankfest anywhere but 1.0 space), but asking for a fair fight in PvP is absurd...
Only time you can ask for fairness of this type is in athletic competition. PvP in EVE is certainly not soley a skills competition, it's mainly about WAR...
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"for piece sakes!" |
Bhaal
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Posted - 2004.08.27 14:46:00 -
[28]
I agree...
You guys know I fight you on almost everything concerning "pirating" in this game (so the DEV's don't let it turn into a free for all gankfest anywhere but 1.0 space), but asking for a fair fight in PvP is absurd...
Only time you can ask for fairness of this type is in athletic competition. PvP in EVE is certainly not soley a skills competition, it's mainly about WAR...
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"for piece sakes!" |
Tolkh
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Posted - 2004.08.27 15:03:00 -
[29]
When I play a PvP game I never expect a fair fight or a balanced match between 2 party for that matter, 1f I get into one Im pleasantly surprised. The only thing I ask for is a reasonable counter to every tactics so there is enough depth to put my brain to use. I also expect the game mechanics to take care of cheesy tactics, like the usual high level newbie gankers in newbie land who enjoy winning but don't want to risk losing.
Sadly I'm also starting to hate massive battles where everyone flocks, which usually means lag fest...I really hate lag .
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Tolkh
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Posted - 2004.08.27 15:03:00 -
[30]
When I play a PvP game I never expect a fair fight or a balanced match between 2 party for that matter, 1f I get into one Im pleasantly surprised. The only thing I ask for is a reasonable counter to every tactics so there is enough depth to put my brain to use. I also expect the game mechanics to take care of cheesy tactics, like the usual high level newbie gankers in newbie land who enjoy winning but don't want to risk losing.
Sadly I'm also starting to hate massive battles where everyone flocks, which usually means lag fest...I really hate lag .
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