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Archdaimon
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
32
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Posted - 2012.05.05 00:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
Disclaimer: Not a carebear blah blah, didn't lose any hulks blah blah, don't live in Hi blah blah.
Matter at Hand:
Eve is a Sandbox or tries to be as much as possible. What is not "sandboxable" is the ship designs of Eve. They are sort of given to us by magical beings deciding what we can fly and what we can't.
As with any thing in Human history when one thing failed things started to adapt. We see this in fleet doctrines or fits for ships.
What we do not see is the ship design itself change. What am I getting at?
Mining ships. It makes no sense, from any fluffy perspective that ships continuously ganked never develops and becomes able to counter that thread. Few times in history have people insisted on being so ******** as to continue doing the same mistake over and over. No place in Eve has ever been safe enough for any ship design as paper thin as an exhumer to be designed in the first place!
One should think that an Engineer had at least enough some entrepreneurial spirit as to create a mining design not popin on sight. The resource is worth it. Current ship design just plain weird.
Faq: q) omfg omfg omfg carebear don't want suicide ganks. a) Yes I do. But lets put some fun into it. School Yard bully only fun for so long?
q) Your a botter a) No.
q) You just butthurt a) Not really. I just haven't lost faith in common sense
q) Don't fly what you can't afford to lose a) I don't
q) Have you tried mining a) Yes
q) Why should I care? a) Dunno, maybe you just will?
tbc |
Archdaimon
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
33
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Posted - 2012.05.05 00:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
Hi Goons. Yeah I heard of the Rokh. It is also a battleship designed for combat able to fit mining lasers (wtf?).
My point is. If this was a sandbox and I spent 100 bil isk designing a better tanked mining ship I am pretty sure I'd find investors pretty fast.
I mean I would almost be able to find investors on this real planet called earth:
http://www.economist.com/node/21553419 |
Archdaimon
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
33
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Posted - 2012.05.05 00:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Andski wrote:Archdaimon wrote:Hi Goons. Yeah I heard of the Rokh. It is also a battleship designed for combat able to fit mining lasers (wtf?). My point is. If this was a sandbox and I spent 100 bil isk designing a better tanked mining ship I am pretty sure I'd find investors pretty fast. I mean I would almost be able to find investors on this real planet called earth: http://www.economist.com/node/21553419 This is about balance - the Hulk has great mining abilities, but that comes at the expense of the ability to take damage. It does not take much to kill a gank-fit Catalyst - one HAC/BC will take care of it quickly.
Of course it is about balance. But currently the setup is so off balance it should be obvious.
Another piece of evidence is the weird manifesto from our dear James(whatever)(tm) about carebears destroying Eve. What he is right about is that no one dares to mine. Those that do either failed math at school or I don't know is masochists or something.
If we want a game of hunted and hunters, there must be a food chain. Currently Mining itself has ******** gameplay but combine it with ******** ship designs make it even more inbearable.
In short. Bad mining design kills pew!
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Archdaimon
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
38
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Posted - 2012.05.05 10:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
seany1212 wrote:Oh look, another one of these threads, oh look, what's worse is it's a alliance member Show me a decent buffer tanked hulk that's lost to gankers (start with a DC2 )... That's because pretty much everyone mining sticks survey scanners and cargohold expanders/mining upgrades in their respective mids and lows. When I start seeing actual tanked hulks on lossmails to gankers then i'll side with any one of these terrible threads
Yeah, I am not surprised we disagree here but I'd still turn it around.
Maybe there is a reason why you have not seen any decently tanked hulks? Because the can't... Every now and then people find a new way to try it, and they fail too.
It is not really about adapting ship fits, more that current ship designs does not allow for tactical game play.
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Archdaimon
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
43
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Posted - 2012.05.06 09:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Xython wrote:Edit: Also, postin' in another "Wah, I should be invincible" thread. Heh. They're pretty common, I guess.
Cry baby. THis has nothing to do with being invincible, in the same way one could argue that you just want a challenge even two-year olds could handle in kinder garden. Your just sad that someone is actually interested in balance instead of sadism. |
Archdaimon
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
50
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Posted - 2012.05.06 16:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Still seems like a place where sadists only wants easy mode because they can't handle a challenge when presented with one. |
Archdaimon
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
51
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Posted - 2012.05.06 20:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ibrihm Esenhorn wrote:And a reply actually realted to the OP
Most of the play mechanics of EVE are multiplayer - i.e. require grouping
Miners are unarmed and squshy because you're sort of expected to group up and hire people specialized to defend you while you are specialized in mining and then share the profits between everyone.
Ideally the specialization means that everyone is the most efficient at their roles and total income is increased over having a bunch of miner/warship hybrids running around.
Man up, fleet up, and keep the **** up.
Wut, I mean, Wut?
So mr. experienced fleet commander. How would you tactically defend a hulk?
On a strategic level I get it. But not on a tactical level.
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Archdaimon
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
52
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Posted - 2012.05.07 13:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Yet, if you fit the battleship with guns you'd make twice as much at half the speed?
Is that fair?
The question is really, why did so many of choose not to mine?
Might it be:
1) Low income 2) Boring game mechanic 3) High risk of ganks
in Short very low return of investment in mining. Ship design is a part of that.
The same people here whining that miners should not be invincible and demands they mine in battleship are the same people that would never put their pod in one. While at the same time complaining that mineral prices are to high.
Even at this extreme mineral prices miners have the lowest isk/h. And you ask them to make even less? |
Archdaimon
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
52
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Posted - 2012.05.07 15:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Except you can't do A & B tactically. Only Strategicly. |
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