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60 fps restriction - why?

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johny B5	Posted - 2009.04.17 09:43:00 - [1] before the patch, i had 150 fps and higher with the highest settings, now i only have about 60 fps. why? please remove these stupid restrictions. this is not doom 3. i recently bought a new grafic card, and cannot make use of it. i like my old fps back, wether i am able to see them or not. when i am in a battle situation with less frames than 60 frames, this is not acceptable. ccp, please remove this useless restriction fast!
NeoTheo Dark Materials Heretic Nation	Posted - 2009.04.17 09:45:00 - [2] Originally by: johny B5 before the patch, i had 150 fps and higher with the highest settings, now i only have about 60 fps. why? please remove these stupid restrictions. this is not doom 3. i recently bought a new grafic card, and cannot make use of it. i like my old fps back, wether i am able to see them or not. when i am in a battle situation with less frames than 60 frames, this is not acceptable. ccp, please remove this useless restriction fast! you have your interval set, that locks the FPS to same as your refresh rate of your monitor. change it back to imediate. Dark Materials
Elizabeth Joanne Minmatar New Angel Industries United Federation Of Corps	Posted - 2009.04.17 09:47:00 - [3] Unless you have a CRT display or one of those new-fangled 120 fps panels, you'll never see more than 60 fps anyway. That's the refresh rate of most panels, and there's no way going beyond that. That aside, if you absolutely, definitely need to see more than 60 fps on the meter, look at your graphics setting. Perhaps the patch made changes to the interval, and switching back to "Interval immediate" should turn off VSync and any triple buffering. -- "Boo hoo. Cry some more." -- CCP Whisper
Bimjo Caldari SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2009.04.17 09:47:00 - [4] Originally by: johny B5 before the patch, i had 150 fps and higher with the highest settings, now i only have about 60 fps. why? please remove these stupid restrictions. this is not doom 3. i recently bought a new grafic card, and cannot make use of it. i like my old fps back, wether i am able to see them or not. when i am in a battle situation with less frames than 60 frames, this is not acceptable. ccp, please remove this useless restriction fast! as above poster said,it can also be played around with in your control panel of gcard(for Nvidia at least) called, I believe, vertical sync lesson you might have learned here ? before whine, ask , then if still not happy, do the whine ====================
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.04.17 09:48:00 - [5] Originally by: Elizabeth Joanne Unless you have a CRT display or one of those new-fangled 120 fps panels, you'll never see more than 60 fps anyway. That's the refresh rate of most panels, and there's no way going beyond that. That's not quite true. LCDs don't work in the same way as CRTs.
Red Wid0w Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:02:00 - [6] Yeah listen to what people are telling you. YOU NEVER HAD 150 FPS. YOUR MONITOR CAN ONLY DISPLAY 60 (more than likely). All you are doing with your 150fps is wasting processing power, thus reducing the responsiveness of your background apps. Turn VSYNCH on and lock your fps to 60 and there WILL BE NO DIFFERENCE TO EVE. However, everything else on your pc will run faster. Oh, and those 120hz LCDs are rubbish, they interpolate between frames basically.
Elizabeth Joanne Minmatar New Angel Industries United Federation Of Corps	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:06:00 - [7] Originally by: Malcanis That's not quite true. LCDs don't work in the same way as CRTs. Care to elaborate or give a cite? To my knowledge, the refresh rate comes from the video card, where it's usually 60 Hz since that's what the panel says it will support. That's the rate at which the DVI link feeds the display. How exactly do you override that if the display doesn't accept signals above 60 Hz? -- "Boo hoo. Cry some more." -- CCP Whisper
johny B5	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:06:00 - [8] Originally by: NeoTheo you have your interval set, that locks the FPS to same as your refresh rate of your monitor. change it back to imediate. thanks, it worked! I didn'd know these settings before and didn't change them. that's why i was confused. Here's how to do it: 1. Go to Grafiks & Displays 2. Check box "Advanced settings" 3. Set "Present intervall" to "Intervall immediate"
Lord Fornicate	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:08:00 - [9] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Elizabeth Joanne Unless you have a CRT display or one of those new-fangled 120 fps panels, you'll never see more than 60 fps anyway. That's the refresh rate of most panels, and there's no way going beyond that. That's not quite true. LCDs don't work in the same way as CRTs. True, but it still apply what he said.
Durzel The Xenodus Initiative.	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:08:00 - [10] Thanks for the info, I learn something new every day. Surely would make more sense to just have a checkbox for "V-sync" that does the same thing? I'd wager most people know what "V-sync" means, but don't have a clue what "Interval immediate" means. Also, for an idiot, should I have "Dither" on or off for best image quality?

Grez Minmatar Core Contingency	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:10:00 - [11] Not being able to see more than 60 fps from your monitor is a myth, and anyone who says otherwise is just proving they know absolutely nothing. Turn on advanced options in your graphics menu in EVE and change "Interval Default" to "Interval Immediate". It effectively turns vsync off, whereas now, it's set to driver default. --- Grez: I shot the sheriff Kalazar: But I could not lock the Deputy BECAUSE OF FALCON
Elizabeth Joanne Minmatar New Angel Industries United Federation Of Corps	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:12:00 - [12] Originally by: Grez Not being able to see more than 60 fps from your monitor is a myth, and anyone who says otherwise is just proving they know absolutely nothing. [citation needed]
Lord Fornicate	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:37:00 - [13] Originally by: Grez Not being able to see more than 60 fps from your monitor is a myth, and anyone who says otherwise is just proving that I know absolutely nothing. Fixed it for you.
Another Forum'Alt Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:43:00 - [14] Originally by: Elizabeth Joanne Originally by: Grez Not being able to see more than 60 fps from your monitor is a myth, and anyone who says otherwise is just proving they know absolutely nothing. [citation needed] [citation needed] Humans can tell the difference between 60 and higher framerates, it is just that most monitors can't display >60fps with any difference. BECAUSE OF FALCON. Guide to forum posting
Maglorre	Posted - 2009.04.17 11:22:00 - [15] Originally by: Grez Not being able to see more than 60 fps from your monitor is a myth, and anyone who says otherwise is just proving they know absolutely nothing. Turn on advanced options in your graphics menu in EVE and change "Interval Default" to "Interval Immediate". It effectively turns vsync off, increases CPU and GPU usage thus increasing the amount of heat generated inside your PC, reducing it's lifetime and increasing power consumption for no significant benefit, whereas now, it's set to driver default. Fixed that for you
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2009.04.17 11:37:00 - [16] Originally by: Grez Not being able to see more than 60 fps from your monitor is a myth, and anyone who says otherwise is just proving they know absolutely nothing. Turn on advanced options in your graphics menu in EVE and change "Interval Default" to "Interval Immediate". It effectively turns vsync off, whereas now, it's set to driver default. That just means that while your display still uses 60Hz, the displayed image is updated more frequently in the frame buffer of your graphics card and you will usually see a "tearing" line somewhere when your card switches to a new frame and in extreme cases (very high fps) you will just never see some of the frames on your display because they will be skipped. How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
Angelik'a Gallente	Posted - 2009.04.17 11:41:00 - [17] It's usually the feeling of smoothness rather than anything actually picked up by your eye. For example if you're playing a first person shooter at 25fps (why any more, your eye cant see it anyway amirite?) and turn around quickly you'll perceive it to be "jumpy". Playing at higher framerates removes this jumpyness.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2009.04.17 11:43:00 - [18] Grez said "Not being able to see more than 60 fps from your monitor is a myth, and anyone who says otherwise is just proving they know absolutely nothing." It's not a myth it's just not completely accurate. Most LCD screens are limited to displaying 60fps so even though the human Eye can see more then 60fps the screen is limiting the eye to 60fps. If the monitor has a refresh of 100hz like some CRT's then you can see up to 100fps. Some LCDs go as high as 75fps. Its impossible to see more complete FPS then the monitor can display and the amount of FPS the monitor can display is linked to the refresh rate. Having 150+fps is a waste of time if your monitor is limited to 60fps. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Catherine Frasier	Posted - 2009.04.17 11:54:00 - [19] Originally by: Angelik'a It's usually the feeling of smoothness rather than anything actually picked up by your eye. For example if you're playing a first person shooter at 25fps (why any more, your eye cant see it anyway amirite?) No you're not "rite". Your eyes process a continuous stream of information and can easily detect the difference between 25 fps and 60 fps when there is motion in the image. The "feeling of smoothness" comes from what your eyes (and brain) perceive (what else could it possibly be)?
Grez Minmatar Core Contingency	Posted - 2009.04.17 12:19:00 - [20] Idd, the last two posts have hit it on the head. Human eyes can perceive up to, and just about past 200fps. Some people cannot, some people can - it's a bit like hearing range for eyes, but, well yeah, you get the idea... Locking your fps to your monitors refresh rate can also have detrimental effects. Lookup vsync and what it does. All I did was state that not being able to see past 60fps is rubbish, and not a reason to lock your computer to a certain fps. It's also not a reason to use vsync. Vsync should only be used if you experience tearing of textures/scenes (the issue of a frame being dropped halfway through being rendered). --- Grez: I shot the sheriff Kalazar: But I could not lock the Deputy BECAUSE OF FALCON

Catherine Frasier	Posted - 2009.04.17 12:31:00 - [21] Originally by: Grez All I did was state that not being able to see past 60fps is rubbish, and not a reason to lock your computer to a certain fps. No, what you said was "Not being able to see more than 60 fps from your monitor is a myth". It's not. If your monitor only displays 60 fps you can only see those 60 fps. How else? Are you somehow seeing frames that your monitor isn't displaying? (Good trick!) Originally by: Grez It's also not a reason to use vsync. No, there are lots of good reasons to use vsync. This simply means that there's no down side to it.
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2009.04.17 12:33:00 - [22] Originally by: Grez Idd, the last two posts have hit it on the head. Human eyes can perceive up to, and just about past 200fps. Some people cannot, some people can - it's a bit like hearing range for eyes, but, well yeah, you get the idea... Locking your fps to your monitors refresh rate can also have detrimental effects. Lookup vsync and what it does. All I did was state that not being able to see past 60fps is rubbish, and not a reason to lock your computer to a certain fps. It's also not a reason to use vsync. Vsync should only be used if you experience tearing of textures/scenes (the issue of a frame being dropped halfway through being rendered). You don't get it. No matter what you do to EVE (or any other game for that matter), you will not see more than 60 (or whatever the vsync rate of your display is) different images per second on your display. EVE will just render more images and you will see only some of them / mixed-up parts of them on one of the 60 images your display will show within a second. There's no such thing as "smoother movement" with you remove the vsync locking, that's utter rubbish. How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
WarlockX Amarr Free Trade Corp	Posted - 2009.04.17 12:42:00 - [23] Originally by: Grez Idd, the last two posts have hit it on the head. Human eyes can perceive up to, and just about past 200fps. Some people cannot, some people can - it's a bit like hearing range for eyes, but, well yeah, you get the idea... Locking your fps to your monitors refresh rate can also have detrimental effects. Lookup vsync and what it does. All I did was state that not being able to see past 60fps is rubbish, and not a reason to lock your computer to a certain fps. It's also not a reason to use vsync. Vsync should only be used if you experience tearing of textures/scenes (the issue of a frame being dropped halfway through being rendered). No one said anything about your eyes, it doesn't matter what your eyes can see if the monitor only displays 60fps. Anything above that is wasted. ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2009.04.17 12:45:00 - [24] Originally by: Grez Idd, the last two posts have hit it on the head. Human eyes can perceive up to, and just about past 200fps. Some people cannot, some people can - it's a bit like hearing range for eyes, but, well yeah, you get the idea... Locking your fps to your monitors refresh rate can also have detrimental effects. Lookup vsync and what it does. All I did was state that not being able to see past 60fps is rubbish, and not a reason to lock your computer to a certain fps. It's also not a reason to use vsync. Vsync should only be used if you experience tearing of textures/scenes (the issue of a frame being dropped halfway through being rendered). First of all the human eye dont know if its 30 FPS or 2mio FPS. Does the screen flicker for you in the cinema? Secondly..LCDs...60hz...60FPS..Bingo. anything above FPS simply wont get shown. the frames are discarded. ! -------------------------------------- Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Gabriel Loki	Posted - 2009.04.17 12:46:00 - [25] Edited by: Gabriel Loki on 17/04/2009 12:46:24 Originally by: Grez There's no such thing as "smoother movement" with you remove the vsync locking, that's utter rubbish. Its all psycomological. If you put 2 games next to each other, doing exactly the same thing on exactly the same hardware, and display the real fps on one, and 60 on the other, they will say the one with 150 is better. Even if both are only showing 60.
Miagi Sans Amarr PURgE-Corp The Chamber of Commerce	Posted - 2009.04.17 12:48:00 - [26] Originally by: Pan Crastus Originally by: Grez Idd, the last two posts have hit it on the head. Human eyes can perceive up to, and just about past 200fps. Some people cannot, some people can - it's a bit like hearing range for eyes, but, well yeah, you get the idea... Locking your fps to your monitors refresh rate can also have detrimental effects. Lookup vsync and what it does. All I did was state that not being able to see past 60fps is rubbish, and not a reason to lock your computer to a certain fps. It's also not a reason to use vsync. Vsync should only be used if you experience tearing of textures/scenes (the issue of a frame being dropped halfway through being rendered). You don't get it. No matter what you do to EVE (or any other game for that matter), you will not see more than 60 (or whatever the vsync rate of your display is) different images per second on your display. EVE will just render more images and you will see only some of them / mixed-up parts of them on one of the 60 images your display will show within a second. There's no such thing as "smoother movement" with you remove the vsync locking, that's utter rubbish. you know for playing a complex, mathematical game, people are pretty dumb when it comes to simple math. The above poster is 100% correct. All you are doing on your video card when you exceed your fps of your monitor is causing undue stress on your video card. If your input (video card) is processing the game at 120 fps and your output (monitor) can only handle 60 fps, then you are doubling the stress on your video card and getting the same performance as a card which is performing at 60 fps and outputting through your monitor at 60fps. In fact, your 120 fps will have more artifacts and tearing than a card processing at 60fps. your monitor is what is limiting your fps.
Polly Prissypantz Dingleberry Appreciation Society	Posted - 2009.04.17 12:57:00 - [27] As someone stated earlier in this thread, while the display may only be pumping out 60 frames per second, in fast-paced games such as most FPS's, it generally does feel more responsive with v-sync turned off. But Eve is not an FPS nor is it by any stretch of the imagination fast-paced, so you are unlikely to notice any difference with v-sync on or off. So, keep v-sync on - your hardware will thank you for it.
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2009.04.17 13:17:00 - [28] Originally by: Polly Prissypantz As someone stated earlier in this thread, while the display may only be pumping out 60 frames per second, in fast-paced games such as most FPS's, it generally does feel more responsive with v-sync turned off. Apart from religious beliefs and psychotic fits, the only cause for "v-sync off" setting looking different is artifacts. In fact, you will sometimes see the bottom part of the screen containing a newer frame than the top part of the screen, but this will not fool the eye into "seeing more frames", only into seeing distorted/shaking objects. How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
Lonzo Kincaid Black Nova Corp KenZoku	Posted - 2009.04.17 13:23:00 - [29] what's the frame rate for human eyes? ---------------------- Quote: The rule of thumb is you have to have outnumber them 2:1 before you even think about engaging them
Gabriel Loki	Posted - 2009.04.17 13:26:00 - [30] Originally by: Lonzo Kincaid what's the frame rate for human eyes? They dont have one.



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