Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
2ofSpades
Exploration and Intelligence Agency
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 06:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
(Spellchecked for smart people!)
I tested out the new adaptive hardeners and the idea is cool but the system is not completely adaptive. First, I noticed that once you have turned the hardener on it adapts to lets say a drake kinetic damage. Ok cool, but then after this it stops being adaptive. If IM not getting shot at I think it should automatically return to its default resistance but instead it just stays at the setting. This is not a big issue because all you have to do is turn off the hardener, but people could use flaw to preset their resistance before a fight. The other part I noticed was the hardener didnt seem to re-adapt. I was getting shot by a drake and my resistance was all kin and a proteus warped in started shooting me. The drake had stopped shooting me but my resistance didnt re-adapt to therm/kin for the proteus. This flaw actually worked out to my advantage because I had a thermal hardener fitted. After I reset the hardener it did adapt to the proteus giving me 50/50 therm/kin. Once again not very adaptive but still a cool idea, you should nerf the drake with a 15% morphing shield resistance bonus instead of its 25% across the board. As far as the time to adapt goes at first I thought it was slow at first but after messing with it a little it seemed to adapt quick enough to handle any solo situation or pve. In a nutshell, more adaptive please and add re-adapting without reset. I dont really care about the return to default part but the re-adapting I think is important. I hope to see t2 mod with maybe 20/20/20/20 but I would let it adapt to anything past a normal racial t2 hardener so you get something like 10/60/5/5. Wouldnt mind complex versions either. Feel free to add on or troll if you want! |
Sirinda
Lead Farmers Academy Kill It With Fire
88
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 13:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
I would ask that you add some formatting to your post.
The wall of text has toppled onto my brain. |
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille Gallente Federation
42
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 14:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
These were not not seeded last time I was on but it certainly sounds an interesting mod. I am actually glad it keeps it's last resistance profile when not taking damage last thing I would want would be for it to reset in between pockets/ spawns or if I evade taking damage for a time, if it resets when switched of that sounds fine.-á |
2ofSpades
Exploration and Intelligence Agency
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 16:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sirinda wrote:I would ask that you add some formatting to your post.
The wall of text has toppled onto my brain.
Sorry about your brain. :)
Also I wasnt asking that it just flips back to 15/15/15/15 right away when your not gettting shot but that it adapts back to omni defence just like it adapts to whatever. Mainly I didnt like how it didnt re-adapt when i was getting shot by a new type of damage after it had adapted once. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
704
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 19:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
Q is: does it adapt the the theoretical damage which is hitting you or the effective damage after all resistences are applied?. This could explain 2)
edit: example: if you are hit with 90% exp and 10%kin it could still ignore exp if your kin resistance is significantly lower than exp a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
2ofSpades
Exploration and Intelligence Agency
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 19:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
Im not sure...The way it seemed was that it would only change after there was incoming damage. If someone just shot you one time it didnt change much. |
Pink Marshmellow
Caucasian Culture Club Narwhals Ate My Duck
26
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 22:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
I have a few question, since SiSi is not working for me.
What is the highest value a single resist reach after being hit by one damage type? Let say you get shot from a drake with kin missiles, what is the highest value kin will reach before it stops?
Any idea of this module has stacking penalty or is it like a damage control with no stacking penalty.
Is it possible to fit Both a Damage Control and Adaptive Hardeners?(both have an indication that you can only fit one per ship). |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
715
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 20:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
It doesn't adapt to anything, it's just omni. The blog made it sound like something new and different that would "adjust" ... caught me off guard at first too. No magic here to be missed, because it never existed in the first place. |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
341
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 21:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:It doesn't adapt to anything, it's just omni. The blog made it sound like something new and different that would "adjust" ... caught me off guard at first too. No magic here to be missed, because it never existed in the first place.
it starts omni. as you get damaged it adjusts. How else would it adapt without a level base to start from. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
715
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 21:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:Adunh Slavy wrote:It doesn't adapt to anything, it's just omni. The blog made it sound like something new and different that would "adjust" ... caught me off guard at first too. No magic here to be missed, because it never existed in the first place. it starts omni. as you get damaged it adjusts. How else would it adapt without a level base to start from.
Because it doesn't adapt at all. Just like the existing items that are named "Adaptive ThingX". Do a quick market search on the world "adaptive" |
|
Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 21:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
What would be the point of this module if it doesn't adapt at all? To waste cap and CPU? It would do exactly the same thing as the adaptive nano plating II which needs only a low slot and 1 PG. |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
341
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 22:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote: Because it doesn't adapt at all. Just like the existing items that are named "Adaptive ThingX". Do a quick market search on the world "adaptive"
Then you're doing it wrong. So a Serpentis slaps my armor around for a bit, as the armor cycles my em and expl drops while my thermal and kin goes up. The module now has 0% em and expl and 30% kin and thermal. |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
119
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 22:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:Adunh Slavy wrote:It doesn't adapt to anything, it's just omni. The blog made it sound like something new and different that would "adjust" ... caught me off guard at first too. No magic here to be missed, because it never existed in the first place. it starts omni. as you get damaged it adjusts. How else would it adapt without a level base to start from. Because it doesn't adapt at all. Just like the existing items that are named "Adaptive ThingX". Do a quick market search on the world "adaptive" Yes it does, try actually testing modules before spewing crap on the forums ^^ There should be a rather awesome pic here |
2ofSpades
Exploration and Intelligence Agency
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 01:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Pink Marshmellow wrote:I have a few question, since SiSi is not working for me.
What is the highest value a single resist reach after being hit by one damage type? Let say you get shot from a drake with kin missiles, what is the highest value kin will reach before it stops?
Any idea of this module has stacking penalty or is it like a damage control with no stacking penalty.
Is it possible to fit Both a Damage Control and Adaptive Hardeners?(both have an indication that you can only fit one per ship).
1. Not sure but I think ive seen at least 40%
2. Yes it has the normal resistance stacking penalty (I.E. You have 40% em resistance you turn on a 50% hardener (((100 - 40 = 60 x .01 = .60== .60 x 50 = 30% applied resistance))))) DC's also stack like this.
3. Yes you can fit one of each and use both at the same time. |
Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae ROMANIAN-LEGION
164
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 02:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
My testing went as followed, 1% per cycle change. starting at it's 15%
It will change if the damage changes to a weakness without reset it seemed to me, if you are taking a different damage type.
The big flaw is time, it takes a fair while to become useful and only marginally moreso than an EANM II 90 seconds just so it can have two resists equal, not worth it in my opinion for anything outside of pve. |
TheButcherPete
Specter Syndicate CORE Alliance
162
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 02:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
2ofSpades wrote:Pink Marshmellow wrote:I have a few question, since SiSi is not working for me.
What is the highest value a single resist reach after being hit by one damage type? Let say you get shot from a drake with kin missiles, what is the highest value kin will reach before it stops?
Any idea of this module has stacking penalty or is it like a damage control with no stacking penalty.
Is it possible to fit Both a Damage Control and Adaptive Hardeners?(both have an indication that you can only fit one per ship). 1. Not sure but I think ive seen at least 40% 2. Yes it has the normal resistance stacking penalty (I.E. You have 40% em resistance you turn on a 50% hardener (((100 - 40 = 60 x .01 = .60== .60 x 50 = 30% applied resistance))))) DC's also stack like this. 3. Yes you can fit one of each and use both at the same time.
Damage Controls do not stack. Source: Stacking Penalties My moncole doubles as a cigarette lighter, a flashlight, a laser and x-ray goggles. If you haven't noticed yet, I'm in love with Punkturis. -á-á-á
|
Jerick Ludhowe
Wraiths of Abaddon
68
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 14:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
2ofSpades wrote:
1. Not sure but I think ive seen at least 40%
2. Yes it has the normal resistance stacking penalty (I.E. You have 40% em resistance you turn on a 50% hardener (((100 - 40 = 60 x .01 = .60== .60 x 50 = 30% applied resistance))))) DC's also stack like this.
3. Yes you can fit one of each and use both at the same time.
That's not stacking penalty you posted. |
Sirinda
Lead Farmers Academy Kill It With Fire
91
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 19:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:2ofSpades wrote:
1. Not sure but I think ive seen at least 40%
2. Yes it has the normal resistance stacking penalty (I.E. You have 40% em resistance you turn on a 50% hardener (((100 - 40 = 60 x .01 = .60== .60 x 50 = 30% applied resistance))))) DC's also stack like this.
3. Yes you can fit one of each and use both at the same time.
That's not stacking penalty you posted.
This.
Also, you're confusing diminishing returns with stacking penalty.
I'm not sure about the way the stacking penalty is calculated, but this is the formula for these diminishing returns:
Say you have two 50% resist mods and 0% base resists, to make this easy to calculate.
The first resist gives you the full 50% resistance, leaving 50% of the incoming damage leaking through.
The second mod can only mitigate the damage that's still 'there', so to speak, and reduces it by a further 50%.
In numbers, you'd be at 75% resistance in theory. The stacking penalty causes you to be at around 70% in practice, I believe. it gets worse with every resistance mod you add, except for damage controls. These are only affected by diminishing returns. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
717
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 19:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
Copine Callmeknau wrote:Yes it does, try actually testing modules before spewing crap on the forums ^^
FUAH |
|
CCP Tuxford
C C P C C P Alliance
321
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 23:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
2ofSpades wrote: (2) The other part I noticed was the hardener didnt seem to re-adapt. I was getting shot by a drake and my resistance was all kin and a proteus warped in started shooting me. The drake had stopped shooting me but my resistance didnt re-adapt to therm/kin for the proteus. This flaw actually worked out to my advantage because I had a thermal hardener fitted so I was able to avoid a stacking penalty. After I reset the hardener it did adapt to the proteus giving me 50/50 therm/kin. Once again not very adaptive but still a cool idea, you should nerf the drake with a 15% morphing shield resistance bonus instead of its 25% across the board.
The version we have is pretty simple. It just takes one point of the two lowest resists and adds them to the two highest resists. When it has no more points to take it just does nothing. The issue you have now is that your hardener has adapted to only kinetic damage which means all the other resistances are now at zero. This means as long as your kinetic damage is is one of the two highest damage types you take then it well never shift to take your second highest one into account. This seems slightly broken to me so I'll bring it to the attention of my team.
https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/CCP%20Tuxford/StatusUpdates |
|
|
Camios
Minmatar Bread Corporation
101
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 00:02:00 -
[21] - Quote
CCP Tuxford wrote: The version we have is pretty simple. It just takes one point of the two lowest resists and adds them to the two highest resists. When it has no more points to take it just does nothing. The issue you have now is that your hardener has adapted to only kinetic damage which means all the other resistances are now at zero. This means as long as your kinetic damage is is one of the two highest damage types you take then it well never shift to take your second highest one into account. This seems slightly broken to me so I'll bring it to the attention of my team.
If you make a bit of calculations you can show that the best resistance profile against a given damage distribution profile is the one that has 60% resist on the highest incoming damage type. This assuming a flat resistance background and a constraint on the sum of the resistances.
You can pretty much demonstrate this using Lagrange multipiers.
For this reason, I think that the best algorithm would be to take 1% resistance away from the 3 lowest damage types and add 3% resistance to the highest damage type (or 2%-1%-0% if 1-2-3 of the lowest resistance are already zero, respectively). This change will entail a faster "convergence" and thus may require lenghtening the cycle time (but I don't think it's necessary). Moreover, the module will not remain "stuck".
(my 2 cents) |
Shish Tukay
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 00:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Copine Callmeknau wrote:Adunh Slavy wrote:Because it doesn't adapt at all. Just like the existing items that are named "Adaptive ThingX". Do a quick market search on the world "adaptive" Yes it does, try actually testing modules before spewing crap on the forums ^^
I've sat here for half an hour taking damage on my adaptive invulnerability field, and it's still 25/25/25/25
I'm guessing you only meant to reply to one specific sentence when quoting the entire thread? |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
127
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 00:22:00 -
[23] - Quote
Shish Tukay wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:Adunh Slavy wrote:Because it doesn't adapt at all. Just like the existing items that are named "Adaptive ThingX". Do a quick market search on the world "adaptive" Yes it does, try actually testing modules before spewing crap on the forums ^^ I've sat here for half an hour taking damage on my adaptive invulnerability field, and it's still 25/25/25/25 I'm guessing you only meant to reply to one specific sentence when quoting the entire thread? Jesus.
The adaptive armour hardener adapts, that and ONLY that module is a resistance-shifting hardener that adapts to incoming damage. It also works fine, contrary to what certain idiots on the first page have stated
Why you're complaining that invulns and EANM aren't shifting their resistance is beyond me There should be a rather awesome pic here |
Shish Tukay
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 00:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
Copine Callmeknau wrote:Why you're complaining that invulns and EANM aren't shifting their resistance is beyond me I'm not complaining about the modules, I'm complaining about you - your fail-quoting implied that the guy was totally wrong, when in fact he was only 1/3 wrong
|
2ofSpades
Exploration and Intelligence Agency
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 03:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
Good to see a ccp reply on here! Thanks and nice job with the vengeance paint, the silver looks good. |
Morgan North
The Wild Bunch Electus Matari
75
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 06:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
I've experimentedwith the module, but insofar I've not considered it too usefull. Seems like a good old EANM is better in all situations. |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
131
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 08:09:00 -
[27] - Quote
Shish Tukay wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:Why you're complaining that invulns and EANM aren't shifting their resistance is beyond me I'm not complaining about the modules, I'm complaining about you - your fail-quoting implied that the guy was totally wrong, when in fact he was only 1/3 wrong He is totally wrong though, and I quoted his whole post :p He only made two statements
Adunh Slavy wrote:Because it doesn't adapt at all. Wrong, it does adapt, slowly.
Adunh Slavy wrote:Just like the existing items that are named "Adaptive ThingX" Wrong, it does not function like the current 'Adaptive [thing]' modules
Why is this even a thing anyway? Can't we go back to discussing how this module is basically useless except on the tightest rep fits? There should be a rather awesome pic here |
Shpenat
Pafos Technologies
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 08:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
I would like to know if there is a plan to iterate on this module in the future and add higher meta variants?
Right now it is marginally better than T1 EANM. As EANM uses no cap, and uses benefits of compensation skills. Adaptive module is active and does not take any bonus from compensation skills.
Don't take me wrong. I think the module is well balanced. But it is still meta 0 module and balanced to other meta 0 modules. But we have named, T2, faction and deadspace versions of EANMS which overshadow this T1 adaptive hardener. |
Shpenat
Pafos Technologies
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 08:21:00 -
[29] - Quote
Copine Callmeknau wrote:
Why is this even a thing anyway? Can't we go back to discussing how this module is basically useless except on the tightest rep fits?
The module is quite useful. Meta 0 EANM gives +15% to all resists, +20% with all compensation skills at max.
Adaptive hardener gives +15% to all resists before adaptation. Will shift to +30% against NPCs (as all of them uses at least 2 damage types) and +60% if being shot by single damage type (missiles).
If we get T2 variant with +20% base resists it would compare to T2 EANM quite nicely.
T2 EANM with all skills: +25% to all resists. T2 adaptive hardener base: 20% to all resists. T2 adaptive hardener against 2 damage type NPC: +40% T2 adaptive resist against single damage type: 80% now this is probably overpowered. |
Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 11:25:00 -
[30] - Quote
Since it takes so long to adapt I wouldn't use it. In that time it takes to adapt you're taking more damage waiting for it to pass the effectiveness of a tech 2 EANM while spending a lot of capacitor. Moreso if some other damage type hits you after you adapt. In addition, the EANM is boosted by armor compensation skills and uses no cap at all. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |