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Smokeyblood
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Posted - 2009.04.21 18:03:00 -
[1]
Currently have gal cruiser V and med blast spec IV, i can currently fly the domi with t2 drones but i do not have t2 large guns. However inspite of all this i am really really considering training up minmatar right now, flew a stabber the other day randomnly when i was bored (have every race cruiser to IV other then caldari) and really really liked the auto cannons hitting out to 12km with t1 ammo.
So i am thinking of training up minnie to minnie BS V and large projectiles, i know this gives me the jaguar/wolf/claw/stilleto/rupture/stabber/vaga/rapier/huginn/hurricane and tempest as the list of ships i would likely fly.
So how bad of an idea is this? Am i crazy? I mean there is just something about minnie that makes me want to fly them.
TL;DR - How bad of an idea is it to train minnie up to BS V and large proj's with all t2 ships included?
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Bree Sorn
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Posted - 2009.04.21 18:07:00 -
[2]
Friends don't let friends fly minnie BSs...
That is all.
PS Large Projectiles SUCK.
No really that is all....
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Connner
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.04.21 18:07:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Connner on 21/04/2009 18:08:26
Why not. If you like the ships for whatever reason do it. From what I can gather, Minne ships (which I love to fly) are not FOTM right now, so most people will steer you away. However the circle of nef/buff will eventually spread some love to us Minmatars.
edit.
Also, from my experiences by the time you train up for the FOTM race/ship etc, the forum whiners will have had it nerfed to hell, so I'd strongly advise against it. Train for what you like.
Do it!
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Smokeyblood
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Posted - 2009.04.21 18:11:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Bree Sorn
Friends don't let friends fly minnie BSs...
That is all.
PS Large Projectiles SUCK.
No really that is all....
However, by the time BS V is done minnie may have gotten a buff and tbh, the only time i would fly a BS would be when its necessary so it would be more for the smaller t2 ships on the way.
The minnie BS V would be just because i need a BS Arsenal.
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Barkaial Starfinder
Minmatar
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
Balance of Judgment
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Posted - 2009.04.21 18:20:00 -
[5]
I have Minnie BS V and I don't recommend. Unless you are only Minmatar like me and really like it, despite it being underpowered.
You could max out stuff on the cruiser level and be happy. Keep your minnie BS at IV
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Smokeyblood
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Posted - 2009.04.21 18:26:00 -
[6]
Ok i will slightly rephrase as this may turn into a BS thread only, i am also wondering if i am crazy for wanting to train minnie frig/cruiser to V and small/med proj specializations to IV or V
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adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
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Posted - 2009.04.21 18:38:00 -
[7]
sub BS minmatar rocks, BS level, maelstrom can be very impressive solo/small gang (especially with crystal set). I know of people who fly nothing but minmatar BS's and they can pull of pretty impressive things with those ships, just as any race can. Sub BS i can speak from personal experience, everyone is saying amarr is FOTM atm, yet i've been flying almost only minmatar ships the last few months.... That should say something about those ships.
-sig-
Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr!
Originally by: UMEE
if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail.
QFT! |
Barkaial Starfinder
Minmatar
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
Balance of Judgment
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Posted - 2009.04.21 18:39:00 -
[8]
Not crazy...
But you should know that using minnie stuff instead of your gallente stuff you will be less powerful without very good shield, drones, projectilles, armor, navigation and depending on the ship missiles skills too
Good thing is that you should have Armor and Drones already, and Gunnery support.
In the end it will be good =P
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Lady Darkmoon
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Posted - 2009.04.21 19:02:00 -
[9]
Minmatar is great fun. I crosstrained to Minmatar Frig V along with Small Proj V's. Been working up towards Cruiser V and Medium Proj V's lately.
I find the Minmatar ships to be very different and fun to fly in comparison to my Amarr ones. Minmatar sort of supplements ships where Amarr has weak ones. For instance Assault Frigates, where Minny gives you Wolf/jag which are great for roaming, and Amarr offers single-midslot Retri and zero-dps Vengeance.
Also the Minmatar Cruisers are great to fly. Personally I didn't like the Stabber too much, but I really liked the Rupture, and also the Bellicose actually with it's mix of guns, missiles and a nice flight of drones. Even the destroyer, Thrasher, was fun to fly and I've been doing L2 missions with it using artillery guns.
But, it's all really about flavour, not to mention how bored you are of what you currently fly. I've been so used to flying Amarr ships that I really just needed a breather from them, and Minmatar were a welcome change with their "odd" module layouts compared to Amarr which is pretty straightforward with their guns+armor tank.
Anyways, you should fly what you enjoy, even though that of course means you have to train up for it to try it (unless you have a SISI client).
Right now I'm training up for Gallente ships to try some blasters boats for knife-fighting, despite what people say about blasters on the forums lately :)
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Beverly Sparks
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Posted - 2009.04.21 19:55:00 -
[10]
The big selling point for Minmatar BS's is that they are next on the list for buffing. Train now, and you will already have them ready to go when they become the topic of all the whine threads. As soon as they get their buff, start training to fly a Mega, if you haven't got it already
If the Minmatar BS's get buffed without a concurrent Amarr nerf, then you will have Mega pilots in mass hitting the streets in protest. Which will put them next on the list to become the FOTM.
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CrimsonLobo
Caldari
Galaxy Punks
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Posted - 2009.04.21 20:05:00 -
[11]
I did it, and personally think it is a really good idea, Sub BS Minnie rock, Cane, Sword, Vaga, Shaguar are ships that i would fly for preference over all others for there class.
Cant forget the Rifter and Rupture rock as well.
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Echo Gemini
Minmatar
Love My Darkness
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Posted - 2009.04.21 20:10:00 -
[12]
Stick to Gallente untill you've trained all the Gallente ships!..
Titan including!.. Don't waste you're time and skill points only because you can.
Be good at one thing, don't suck at everything!..
Minnie ships are nice and projectile rocks, sooooomeetimesss ... but if you really really think Minmatar are for you, trade your char for a pretty Vherokior lady!..
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2009.04.21 21:26:00 -
[13]
My suggestions would be to train up to Minnie HACs/Recons (and if you're rich, command ships) and stop there. And if they boost Matar battleships eventually, then move up to T2 large projectiles and BS V. |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.04.21 21:32:00 -
[14]
I love flying Minmatar, but can't in good conscience recommend it to people based on current performance. You would be better off in something Amarr ATM (lasers are a better weapon platform even at small and medium, but the at least the Minnie battle ethos isn't *complete* **** below BS sized). That said, either lasers are gonna be nerfed hard or projectiles and blasters are gonna be boosted Soon(tm).
And all of that said, fly what you want to fly... I've done pretty well as a Minmatar even though they haven't been so awesome recently. I do reasonably well as Gallente, and reasonably well as Caldari too, even during times when they were overwhelmingly considered crap. Pilots are what make ships dangerous.... ship balance just determines how far a really good pilot can push. ;-)
-Liang |
Lisento Slaven
The Drekla Consortium
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Posted - 2009.04.21 23:25:00 -
[15]
Nothing wrong with Minmatar. Just less DPS on paper.
People have this habit of fighting at either below 15km or over 100km. If you want to fight very close you will want a typhoon (I have t2 all weapon systems and Min BS 5 so I don't care about the whole SP argument personally). Even though typhoon is sick, other ships will out-gank it generally speaking.
---
Put in space whales!
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.21 23:29:00 -
[16]
Minmatar are ok.
Projectiles on BSs do a little less dps then the ohter races.
I do not get Liangs whine tho, sub BS Minmatar rocks, if you know how to fit your ships. Sure, lasers are fotm now, and since everybody spent time training them they will probarlty still use them a while, but that odes not make them overpowerd at all.
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Mr Ignitious
R.E.C.O.N.
Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.04.21 23:41:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Smokeyblood
Currently have gal cruiser V and med blast spec IV, i can currently fly the domi with t2 drones but i do not have t2 large guns. However inspite of all this i am really really considering training up minmatar right now, flew a stabber the other day randomnly when i was bored (have every race cruiser to IV other then caldari) and really really liked the auto cannons hitting out to 12km with t1 ammo.
So i am thinking of training up minnie to minnie BS V and large projectiles, i know this gives me the jaguar/wolf/claw/stilleto/rupture/stabber/vaga/rapier/huginn/hurricane and tempest as the list of ships i would likely fly.
So how bad of an idea is this? Am i crazy? I mean there is just something about minnie that makes me want to fly them.
TL;DR - How bad of an idea is it to train minnie up to BS V and large proj's with all t2 ships included?
I'm responding from personal experience: I was once in your exact position, was contented with my gallente skills (didn't care much for battleships at the time) and was at a fork in my training tree. I was in between a different racial cruiser 5 or T2 large hybrid weapons. My alliance at the time was very sniper bs-y and pos shootin' in 0.0 so they nudged me towards T2 larges so I could use spike for ops and T2 blasters get moar dmg from specialization. I was reluctant to do so because I wasn't (and still am not) a fan of battleships.
Needless to say I deeply regret wasting time on large hybrid turret 5 where that could have been minmitar cruiser 5, and with the little extra umf for T2 medium projectiles (mandatory). I would strongly advise though against T2 large projectiles... they SUCK... MISERABLY. Only way I wouldn't laugh if you said you did is if you had some deep, unshakable, faith that CCP has some ubar buff to projectiles coming in the very near future.
The fun you'll have with minmitar (imo) you'll have with: Vaga, Wolf, rupture, hurricane, cyclone (if you're talented  ), rapier (needs some buffin, but not as bad as some make it out), stabber (cheap fun), sleipnir, claymore (if you're like me at least), and scimitar (again, if you're like me... I like playing support sometimes), broadsword, sabre.
I think thats my whole list... but yah, minmitar are a cruiser race, their bs quality is pretty abysmal. Their caps too.
I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people.
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.04.22 01:37:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
Minmatar are ok.
Agreed, in the sense of "ok".
Quote:
Projectiles on BSs do a little less dps then the ohter races.
It's not "a little", especially when you consider what falloff does to your damage (you don't just miss more, you also have worse hit quality). You don't *really* think that Minnie BS's engage at 3km to get all that EFT DPS do you?
Quote:
I do not get Liangs whine tho, sub BS Minmatar rocks, if you know how to fit your ships. Sure, lasers are fotm now, and since everybody spent time training them they will probarlty still use them a while, but that odes not make them overpowerd at all.
Explanation (since you didn't bother to read it?):
- Lasers are all around a better weapons platform period. At frigate, cruiser, BS, and Cap level - lasers are better than projectiles (and hybrids for that matter)
- High DPS with high optimal (less damage reduction due to, say, falloff and tracking) is *always* better than low DPS with high falloff
- Lasers are FOTM for a reason these days. It's because they are the best turret platform in game by a fairly significant margin
- Minmatar is "ok" below BS level, and I've had great success with them. I also had great success with Caldari back when Caldari was considered "crap", and with Gallente when it's been "crap". Players make ships dangerous, but the ship itself determines how far a great player can push it.
Again, I recommend people fly what they want to fly - the state of the game is up in the air right now. IMO, we're going to see blasters and autos get a boost (perhaps a significant one), but I wouldn't rule out an overall nerf to lasers (quite possibly Scorch, the most egregious balance offender).
-Liang |
Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis
PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.04.22 01:50:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Lisento Slaven
Nothing wrong with Minmatar. Just less DPS on paper.
This.
Honestly.
Close EFT and X up once and in awhile. You don't need Large Energy Turret V or Amarr BS V no matter what this forum tells you, or what you think you concluded from EFT.
For Matari BS, the Typhoon is a very good, very versatile ship (anything from a RR king, to a better Neut Domi to close range gank boat), and the Tempest can do RR gangs pretty well (extra mids for ECCM, 2 spare highs). Maelstrom has a incredible shield tank and does pretty nice damage to boot. |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.04.22 01:57:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Artemis Rose
For Matari BS, the Typhoon is a very good, very versatile ship (anything from a RR king, to a better Neut Domi to close range gank boat), and the Tempest can do RR gangs pretty well (extra mids for ECCM, 2 spare highs). Maelstrom has a incredible shield tank and does pretty nice damage to boot.
Yes, the Phoon is good and versatile... when you have freaking 50M SP. Otherwise, you're in a one-trick-pony (Torps+Projectiles+Drones with crap support on Missiles/Drones) at 30M SP [well, that or you neglected to train things like T2 cruisers and/or support. The last guy that said he had a 30M SP phoon had stuff like energy management 4 and only HACs].
The Maelstrom is decent, but I wouldn't really recommend it (feels too sluggish to be a proper AC boat, and wwaaaaaayyyyyy too expensive for a fleet sniper). Works well as a mission runner.
The Pest is ... lacking.
That said, I'm a big fan of:
- Cyclone
- Hurricane
- Rupture
- Sabre (It *was* way better)
Yeah, by all means, close EFT and X-up, but you're a fool if you don't pay attention to the way the game works.
-Liang |
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Alpha India
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Posted - 2009.04.22 02:59:00 -
[21]
Guys, I'm right at the beginning of training Caldari Cruiser 4 to make my way to a Raven for level 4 missions in Minmatar space. I can choose to abort and train Minmatar Cruiser 4 to make way for a Maelstrom.
But it's about the most efficient missioning, and from what I've read, it seems missles are the way to go for it.
For the past two weeks I've been fighting this, but help me out here. I love Minmatar, and believe it or not projectiles, but this is not my love for the faction. It's about missions. And money! And time!
Let's here it one more time! Give it to me straight peeps!
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.04.22 03:22:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Alpha India
Guys, I'm right at the beginning of training Caldari Cruiser 4 to make my way to a Raven for level 4 missions in Minmatar space. I can choose to abort and train Minmatar Cruiser 4 to make way for a Maelstrom.
But it's about the most efficient missioning, and from what I've read, it seems missles are the way to go for it.
For the past two weeks I've been fighting this, but help me out here. I love Minmatar, and believe it or not projectiles, but this is not my love for the faction. It's about missions. And money! And time!
Let's here it one more time! Give it to me straight peeps!
The Maelstrom in no way, shape, form, or fashion competes with the Raven when mission running. The Domi competes with the Raven (and CNR), but the Paladin/Golem are widely considered the top mission ships.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.04.22 03:28:00 -
[23]
Edited by: AstroPhobic on 22/04/2009 03:29:10
I wouldn't recommend training BS 5/Large Projectiles 5. I also wouldn't recommend training cruiser 5.
Their AFs however are quite excellent. Inties kinda suck... the cheetah is nice though. No complaints about the hound either. Frig 5/small projectile 5 isn't exactly a long train.
$0.02
ed: Forgot to mention, the hurricane is quite sexy as well, so getting t2 med projectiles is worth it for IMO one of the most solid ships in the minnie lineup.
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Alpha India
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Posted - 2009.04.22 03:33:00 -
[24]
Liang,
I needed this, I really did. Thanks. I can finally sleep soundly tonight, and let Cal Cruiser 4 train away.
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Monticore D'Muertos
Caldari
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2009.04.22 03:38:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Monticore D''Muertos on 22/04/2009 03:39:39
just cross train everything sub bs and then pick 1 bs race you want to pve/pve with.
being good at many vs being great at 1 race only sucks if you get 1 vs 1 which doesn't happen much. |
Kaptain Klo
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Posted - 2009.04.22 03:42:00 -
[26]
I like my Minnie BS's for their cheapness, and versatility. That said if you tend to work in gangs with 10 or more, Gallente will out perform.
Interestingly, had a 1v1 today against a Mega in my Phoon (40m SP, with max gunnery/drone skills, and all torp/missile skills at 4). I popped when I had him at 75% structure, and most of the fight had him controlling range. The kicker is that we were both buffer fit, but me unrigged, him 3x trimarks. With 35% more armour, I'd have won with a comfortable margin.
This is just one example, but the point I'm trying to drive home is that I used a generic fit (I had a explosion armour hardener I didn't end up needing at all) against a generic fit/rigged mega and the fight was close enough that one couldn't really say minnie BS's are worthless.
On the smaller ship note, I'm loving my AC Thrasher (read: Cheap Sabre). I don't use AF's because I dislike the concept. THe stabber is a fun ship, and one day when I get over the fact that I'm flying a 500% more expension ship for like 25-35% more performance, I'll buy and love a Vaga. |
Brutor'Man X
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.04.22 04:20:00 -
[27]
To the op. Take the sp you would have put into bs skills and put it into command ships. The Sleip is well worth the training time and can easily serve multiple pvp or pve roles. Then if or when large projectiles get its turn for a buff you will already have all your support skills at usable levels and can train large projectile and minnie bs to 5. As far as minnie bs being sub par well thats true in a strictly bs vs bs comparison but it will still pwn smaller ships just like all bs can do with proper support. CCP kinda hints at the need for webber and tracking support anyways with the racial bonuses of the support cruisers.
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Inen
Black Elite
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Posted - 2009.04.22 04:39:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Alpha India
Guys, I'm right at the beginning of training Caldari Cruiser 4 to make my way to a Raven for level 4 missions in Minmatar space. I can choose to abort and train Minmatar Cruiser 4 to make way for a Maelstrom.
But it's about the most efficient missioning, and from what I've read, it seems missles are the way to go for it.
For the past two weeks I've been fighting this, but help me out here. I love Minmatar, and believe it or not projectiles, but this is not my love for the faction. It's about missions. And money! And time!
Let's here it one more time! Give it to me straight peeps!
The Maelstrom in no way, shape, form, or fashion competes with the Raven when mission running. The Domi competes with the Raven (and CNR), but the Paladin/Golem are widely considered the top mission ships.
-Liang
I agree Maelstrom is no Raven. It will get the job done but at a slower pace. I have, save large proj spec V, max damage skills for my mael including implants. I do good damage, but it's no raven.
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Katy Karkinoff
Minmatar
Psycho Chicks
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Posted - 2009.04.22 04:46:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Brutor'Man X
To the op. Take the sp you would have put into bs skills and put it into command ships. The Sleip is well worth the training time and can easily serve multiple pvp or pve roles. Then if or when large projectiles get its turn for a buff you will already have all your support skills at usable levels and can train large projectile and minnie bs to 5. As far as minnie bs being sub par well thats true in a strictly bs vs bs comparison but it will still pwn smaller ships just like all bs can do with proper support. CCP kinda hints at the need for webber and tracking support anyways with the racial bonuses of the support cruisers.
Lol? Sleip is a great CS, as is claymore, but CS are still a gimped class. In the scheme of things an individual would be far better off investing skills into bs especially for makin' tha isk. CS are expensive and could really use a distinct advantage over BS. People argue that the agility is superior on CS but the margin of that "agility perk" is very very slim.
CS are a nice goal post bs training.
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Loo Kinn
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Posted - 2009.04.22 06:46:00 -
[30]
Minmatar ships are good, but they need preliminaries.
Their problem is time. |
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