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Hiyora Akachi
Bling Ring Tax Evaders
32
|
Posted - 2012.07.23 22:39:00 -
[181] - Quote
Quick summary:
1 Non-capital pilot proposing sweepign changes that would probably break everything we hold near and dear.
Many Cap pilots telling him hes a complete moron.
1 Non Cap pilot ignoring what others are saying.
Some people telling him he should kill himself.
Others considering murdering him.
YW o7 |

Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
592
|
Posted - 2012.07.23 22:53:00 -
[182] - Quote
He can sit in a capital though.
Doesn't that make him a capital pilot? |

Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1545
|
Posted - 2012.07.23 23:01:00 -
[183] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:He can sit in a capital though.
Doesn't that make him a capital pilot? You know, throughout this thread he has already claimed he doesn't use his carrier for ratting or personal logistics. And he certainly doesn't use it for PvP.
It just makes you wonder, wtf does he use it for? Does he actually own one, or did we just take his word for it? I honestly can't remember at this point.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |

Andy Landen
Exploring Eagles
57
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 01:29:00 -
[184] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Emperor Salazar wrote:He can sit in a capital though.
Doesn't that make him a capital pilot? You know, throughout this thread he has already claimed he doesn't use his carrier for ratting or personal logistics. And he certainly doesn't use it for PvP. It just makes you wonder, wtf does he use it for? Does he actually own one, or did we just take his word for it? I honestly can't remember at this point.
I used to use it for ratting and personal logistics. Still do use it for logistics sometimes. There are other things a carrier is good for. It reps poses pretty well. Does other things to besides pvp, but I don't use my own carrier for pvp. There are other carriers in the universe besides my own. Enough about me.
More about the issues beyond the like/don't like .. how about real thoughts. Hasn't anyone here ever wanted to fly a spaceship like any number of spaceships of the various franchises: Enterprise, Prometheus, Destiny, or Odyssey to name a few? All of these ships had their own hyperdrives (or FTL) for interstellar travel. Eve can handle this beautiful technology just fine. |

Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
593
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Posted - 2012.07.24 01:59:00 -
[185] - Quote
Literally missing the point. |

Hiyora Akachi
Bling Ring Tax Evaders
33
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Posted - 2012.07.24 02:03:00 -
[186] - Quote
Andy, bro, just because its used in some other Sci-fi universe, doesn't mean the current balance of EvE will allow it to work without being grossly overpowered or so hilariously bad no one uses it.
Also, stop talking about caps. You're just causing more people to ridicule you. |

Andy Landen
Exploring Eagles
57
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 04:13:00 -
[187] - Quote
Hiyora Akachi wrote:Andy, bro, just because its used in some other Sci-fi universe, doesn't mean the current balance of EvE will allow it to work without being grossly overpowered or so hilariously bad no one uses it.
Also, stop talking about caps. You're just causing more people to ridicule you.
Your point is good, but plenty of concepts from other universes can and have already come over: Stargate, Jump drive, Shields, drones, wormholes, etc. Hey, if it is grossly over or under powered, then I am sure that a nice balance can be found with good discussion.
Also, I don't mind the ridicule. It mostly comes from same group of four people who have very little useful to contribute to these subjects. Everything that I have said about caps in this thread has been quite accurate. |

Astroniomix
Thorn Project Black Thorne Alliance
104
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 04:58:00 -
[188] - Quote
Andy Landen wrote: Everything that I have said about caps in this thread has been quite accurate. Shhhh...... I think I hear the fact police coming. |

Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1571
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 05:25:00 -
[189] - Quote
Andy Landen wrote:Hiyora Akachi wrote:Andy, bro, just because its used in some other Sci-fi universe, doesn't mean the current balance of EvE will allow it to work without being grossly overpowered or so hilariously bad no one uses it.
Also, stop talking about caps. You're just causing more people to ridicule you. Everything that I have said about caps in this thread has been quite accurate.
No.
It hasn't.
|

Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
593
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 11:21:00 -
[190] - Quote
Andy Landen wrote:Everything that I have said about caps in this thread has been quite accurate.
Absolutely buddy. |
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Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
593
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 11:33:00 -
[191] - Quote
I think our work here is done. |

Hiyora Akachi
Bling Ring Tax Evaders
33
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Posted - 2012.07.24 11:35:00 -
[192] - Quote
Hehe, I love how he goes back and edits his posts when he says something wrong. |

Andy Landen
Exploring Eagles
57
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 18:08:00 -
[193] - Quote
Hiyora Akachi wrote:Hehe, I love how he goes back and edits his posts when he says something wrong. I am rarely wrong, but you can always see me quoted in other posts.
Let's add one more bonus to Triage/Siege: T2 module multiplies shield, armor, and hull base hp by 4. T1 multiplies by 2. I love it. Train Tactical logistics to 5! |

Lord Zim
1093
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 18:09:00 -
[194] - Quote
Andy Landen wrote:I am rarely wrong Ahahahahahahaha |

Astroniomix
Thorn Project Black Thorne Alliance
104
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 18:24:00 -
[195] - Quote
Andy Landen wrote:Hiyora Akachi wrote:Hehe, I love how he goes back and edits his posts when he says something wrong. I am rarely wrong, but you can always see me quoted in other posts. Let's add one more bonus to Triage/Siege: T2 module multiplies shield, armor, and hull base hp by 4. T1 multiplies by 2. I love it. Train Tactical logistics to 5! http://i.imgur.com/vOHEI.gif
Your triage idea doesn't fix any of the "problems" you have with them. It simply breaks triage for small gang (mostly wormhole gang) use. |

mine mi
Hispania Armored Forces Vera Cruz Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 20:19:00 -
[196] - Quote
Long ago I though a complicate system to travel without jump drive, now I like to introduce a new one, artificial w/h The idea is the ships can create a w/h to the destiny, with only one exit; the distance between the two entries is 1/1000 of the real distance in au, the mass they can pass is 175% of the ship who create the w/h and the only ship who can see the exit Pross: can not cyno jam Conss: take time to travel
I like to see less poker and more chess in the fleet battles.
|

Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
598
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 02:02:00 -
[197] - Quote
mine mi wrote:Long ago I though a complicate system to travel without jump drive, now I like to introduce a new one, artificial w/h The idea is the ships can create a w/h to the destiny, with only one exit; the distance between the two entries is 1/1000 of the real distance in au, the mass they can pass is 175% of the ship who create the w/h and the only ship who can see the exit Pross: can not cyno jam Conss: take time to travel
I like to see less poker and more chess in the fleet battles.
Nope. |

mine mi
Hispania Armored Forces Vera Cruz Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 17:20:00 -
[198] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:mine mi wrote:Long ago I though a complicate system to travel without jump drive, now I like to introduce a new one, artificial w/h The idea is the ships can create a w/h to the destiny, with only one exit; the distance between the two entries is 1/1000 of the real distance in au, the mass they can pass is 175% of the ship who create the w/h and the only ship who can see the exit Pross: can not cyno jam Conss: take time to travel
I like to see less poker and more chess in the fleet battles.
Nope.
I have to surrender to so eloquently |

Andy Landen
Exploring Eagles
57
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 22:07:00 -
[199] - Quote
It is always funny to hear people worry about carrier use in small gang battles. Carriers in small gangs. That is almost as bad as Titans in small gangs. Anyone have a problem with that? I don't .. just asking .. Both are intended to be used with large support fleets and suffer when they are not used in that way. |

Astroniomix
Thorn Project Black Thorne Alliance
106
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 04:12:00 -
[200] - Quote
Andy Landen wrote:It is always funny to hear people worry about carrier use in small gang battles. Carriers in small gangs. That is almost as bad as Titans in small gangs. Anyone have a problem with that? I don't .. just asking .. Both are intended to be used with large support fleets and suffer when they are not used in that way. Try using a large gang in a wormhole and tell me how that mass restriction treats you. (also you ideas get even worse when you implement them for large gangs) |
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Serithin
Rage Against Machine
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 04:45:00 -
[201] - Quote
"A capital ship moves from point A to point B. Along the path, the capital ship will always have a "nearest" system which may show on the top left."
OMFG this right here made me almost fall out of my chair no it doesn't because you insta warp with a jump drive i cant even read the rest of this because of this comment right here if your will to even say that sentence you have never flown a capital EVER or jumped it and as it is they create personal WHs and instantly travel to where ever the jump portal is locked onto.
so in theory that 1/2 a second of "jump time" is your faster than light speed traveling anyways.
regardless im not sure where they can go with jump drives but id like to see CCP take a few prototype ideas to maybe do something different with it.
Also yes carriers are great for small gang WH fights never tried to take one out since i only use a corp one a while back prolly fit one through a C5 though only one if that |

Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
599
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 11:26:00 -
[202] - Quote
Andy Landen wrote:It is always funny to hear people worry about carrier use in small gang battles. Carriers in small gangs. That is almost as bad as Titans in small gangs. Anyone have a problem with that? I don't .. just asking .. Both are intended to be used with large support fleets and suffer when they are not used in that way.
Who was worrying about carriers being used in small gangs? Triage carriers supporting subcaps is awesome and one of the more fun uses of triage.
You'd of course know this, if you actually used a carrier. |

Andy Landen
Exploring Eagles
57
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 18:08:00 -
[203] - Quote
Serithin wrote:"A capital ship moves from point A to point B. Along the path, the capital ship will always have a "nearest" system which may show on the top left."
OMFG this right here made me almost fall out of my chair no it doesn't because you insta warp with a jump drive i cant even read the rest of this because of this comment right here if your will to even say that sentence you have never flown a capital EVER or jumped it and as it is they create personal WHs and instantly travel to where ever the jump portal is locked onto.
so in theory that 1/2 a second of "jump time" is your faster than light speed traveling anyways.
regardless im not sure where they can go with jump drives but id like to see CCP take a few prototype ideas to maybe do something different with it.
Also yes carriers are great for small gang WH fights never tried to take one out since i only use a corp one a while back prolly fit one through a C5 though only one if that
oh and BTW there is a reason that triage disables all that because if a carrier could fight back or get reps in triage a set of 4 triage carriers would take out entire fleets by themselves easily your talking making the triage carrier not a LOGI ship but a veritable juggernaut nuff said let this now die.
I was talking about hyperdrive, not jump drive. Of course, jump drive is instant .. any fool knows that. It is entirely, different, separate, and unrelated to my proposal. So after all your LOLing, wake-up to realize that you completely misunderstood the context, and then go "oh .. I feel stupid." And yes, my idea would be one of those prototype ideas that you wanted CCP to look at, but not as a change to the jump drive, which can be left entirely alone, but instead as an additionally means of travel for all ships.
And yes, carriers can fight in whs, but they always need support. After all the neuts and the smartbombs, carriers pack very little punch and even less love. Plus, in wormholes, there are no motherships or titans, so carriers become their lesser hp equivalent there. two carriers can fit through a C5 wh at a time with up to 10 cruisers stored in each ship bay.
After the 4 triage carrier's drones are smartbombed, how are they going to kill anything? They WON'T! After carrier's are jammed, how are they going to rep anything? They WON'T. After they are neuted, how are they going to stay alive? They WON'T! So, how exactly powerful are 4 lone triage carriers, even with my proposals, against any large fleet with sufficient smartbombs and neuts? The answer: Not very powerful at all. That said, there are always counters, and counter-counters, which proves that it fits with Eve nicely.
I would probably add that local reps are not bonused by Triage to make Triage more of a support module. It should be clear that a carrier lacking support against well-organized foe is dead-in-the-"water". In small gangs against small (usu. solo) unsuspecting foes, it is a powerful weapon, but the risk of counter-hotdrop should never be forgotten. |

Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
600
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 18:23:00 -
[204] - Quote
1. This idea is still dumb. In fact, all of your ideas are pretty dumb. This makes sense though, as you know nothing about practical use of capitals. See below for some details.
2. Carriers in triage can't use drones (oh look, you don't know this? how strange)
3. Triage carriers aren't meant to be killing anything. They are giant logis.
4. Base sensor strength of my nid, is 68. The other carriers are all greater than this (68 in itself is pretty good). In any case, smart carrier pilots carry ECCM with them to refit to in the case of too much ECM on the field, attempting to jam them.
5. You still don't know anything about capitals.
hth |

Andy Landen
Exploring Eagles
57
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 23:56:00 -
[205] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:1. This idea is still dumb. In fact, all of your ideas are pretty dumb. This makes sense though, as you know nothing about practical use of capitals. See below for some details.
2. Carriers in triage can't use drones (oh look, you don't know this? how strange)
3. Triage carriers aren't meant to be killing anything. They are giant logis.
4. Base sensor strength of my nid, is 68. The other carriers are all greater than this (68 in itself is pretty good). In any case, smart carrier pilots carry ECCM with them to refit to in the case of too much ECM on the field, attempting to jam them.
5. You still don't know anything about capitals.
hth Alright, dude. I have put up with your trolling long enough. You repeat yourself until you are blue in the face, and you are still wrong, Emperor Salazar. The only things that are dumb here are you and the three others who continue posting stupid and wrong posts. See below for details:
2) The reason for a proposal is to change something. Proposing that Triage be changed to allow drones while active, assumes that they are not allowed currently. You were too busy being dumb to notice that.
3) Triage carriers can't kill if they can't deploy drones, but BEYOND that, they aren't even giant logis BECAUSE they CAN'T even receive reps like any normal sub-cap logi can. They are at best 1/2 logis. Every Basi and Guardian can recieve reps as well as give them out. I do believe that we should make triage carriers into respectable logi ships.
4) No one said that jamming a carrier should be easy. No one said ECM should be the only way to stop a logi, even a carrier whether in triage or not. They are plenty of other ways to defeat triage carriers, but it takes BRAINS and not stupidity and not a desire for it to be easy.
5) You are still dumb and I am still very knowledgable about carriers. Concerning the other capital ships, I only post about what I know. |

ilammy
5
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 06:57:00 -
[206] - Quote
Andy Landen wrote:3) Triage carriers can't kill if they can't deploy drones, but BEYOND that, they aren't even giant logis BECAUSE they CAN'T even receive reps like any normal sub-cap logi can. They are at best 1/2 logis. Every Basi and Guardian can recieve reps as well as give them out. I do believe that we should make triage carriers into respectable logi ships. Aren't logistics intended to rep other ships? I'm pretty sure about that. The triage carrier reps like 10-15 regular logistics and locks targets faster. And they aren't logistics then. Okay. Because they 'die too fast to do reasonable rep' in your imaginary world. Applying that logic to other ships... it's like 'tier-3 BC aren't dps-boats, because they die too easy, 35k EHP max GÇö lol'.
Andy Landen wrote:4) No one said that jamming a carrier should be easy. No one said ECM should be the only way to stop a logi, even a carrier whether in triage or not. They are plenty of other ways to defeat triage carriers, but it takes BRAINS and not stupidity and not a desire for it to be easy. Yes, BRAINS. Not simply 'MOAR DEE-PEE-ES' as you trying to make by allowing them to receive reps in triage. It is a viable tactic now, because it works on anything, but do you really want it to become the only possible one? Is that what you mean by 'plenty of ways'?
Andy Landen wrote:5) You are still dumb and I am still very knowledgable about carriers. Concerning the other capital ships, I only post about what I know. Uh, great. Then please, give me your killmails in a carrier, or killmails of your carriers, or somebody who can confirm that you were in the battlefield in a carrier. Just to be sure that you are knowledgable of a combat side of the carriers that you're trying to change. |

Lord Zim
1097
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 09:58:00 -
[207] - Quote
Andy Landen wrote:Alright, dude. I have put up with your trolling long enough. You repeat yourself until you are blue in the face, and you are still wrong, Emperor Salazar. The only things that are dumb here are you and the three others who continue posting stupid and wrong posts. See below for details: Pointing out that you're wrong isn't "trolling".
Andy Landen wrote:2) The reason for a proposal is to change something. Proposing that Triage be changed to allow drones while active, assumes that they are not allowed currently. You were too busy being dumb to notice that. 1) These changes are horrible, for reasons which have been stated multiple times. Classifying it as "trolling" doesn't make it any less correct. 2) "You were too busy being dumb to notice that" sounds suspiciously like trolling.
Andy Landen wrote:3) Triage carriers can't kill if they can't deploy drones, but BEYOND that, they aren't even giant logis BECAUSE they CAN'T even receive reps like any normal sub-cap logi can. They are at best 1/2 logis. Every Basi and Guardian can recieve reps as well as give them out. I do believe that we should make triage carriers into respectable logi ships. They are respectable logi ships already.
Andy Landen wrote:4) No one said that jamming a carrier should be easy. No one said ECM should be the only way to stop a logi, even a carrier whether in triage or not. They are plenty of other ways to defeat triage carriers, but it takes BRAINS and not stupidity and not a desire for it to be easy. Big words for someone who has repeatedly demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge about capitals and supercapitals, whilst suggesting making huge sweeping changes at the same time.
Andy Landen wrote:5) You are still dumb and I am still very knowledgable about carriers. Concerning the other capital ships, I only post about what I know. Judging by what you've posted so far, no, you're not. |

Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
603
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 11:25:00 -
[208] - Quote
Andy Landen wrote: Alright, dude. I have put up with your trolling long enough. You repeat yourself until you are blue in the face, and you are still wrong, Emperor Salazar. The only things that are dumb here are you and the three others who continue posting stupid and wrong posts. See below for details:
2) The reason for a proposal is to change something. Proposing that Triage be changed to allow drones while active, assumes that they are not allowed currently. You were too busy being dumb to notice that.
3) Triage carriers can't kill if they can't deploy drones, but BEYOND that, they aren't even giant logis BECAUSE they CAN'T even receive reps like any normal sub-cap logi can. They are at best 1/2 logis. Every Basi and Guardian can recieve reps as well as give them out. I do believe that we should make triage carriers into respectable logi ships.
4) No one said that jamming a carrier should be easy. No one said ECM should be the only way to stop a logi, even a carrier whether in triage or not. They are plenty of other ways to defeat triage carriers, but it takes BRAINS and not stupidity and not a desire for it to be easy.
5) You are still dumb and I am still very knowledgable about carriers. Concerning the other capital ships, I only post about what I know.
This post (and most of your posts) is so full of dumb that I legit don't know how to address it anymore.
I am beyond confused at how you can be so dumb. |

Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
603
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 11:26:00 -
[209] - Quote
PS: Its quite clear you don't know anything about carriers, but thanks for playing. |

Andy Landen
Exploring Eagles
57
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 11:38:00 -
[210] - Quote
ilammy wrote:Aren't logistics intended to rep other ships? I'm pretty sure about that. The triage carrier reps like 10-15 regular logistics and locks targets faster. And they aren't logistics then. Okay. Because they 'die too fast to do reasonable rep' in your imaginary world. Applying that logic to other ships... it's like 'tier-3 BC aren't dps-boats, because they die too easy, 35k EHP max GÇö lol'.
Any Guardian or Basi pilot will tell you that logistics are supposed to first rep each other and then rep the fleet. The first priority is keeping the logistics pilots repped. If a logi does anything to make it difficult for the others to rep him, then he is considered a bad logi pilot. Triage currently makes it difficult for others to rep him, so the use of triage makes the pilot a bad logi pilot in the most commonly accepted use of the term "fleet RR logistics". In the logi world, if the logistics go down, the fleet goes down.
A triage carrier's reps, quantified: A single cap RR of a carrier is about as strong as a single sub-cap logi with five (5) Lg RR. With 6 slots, a carrier can rep as up to 6 sub-cap logi. With Triage, the carrier needs enough cap to sustain up to 5 cap RR, while putting out up to about 20 sub-cap logi reps. The typical carrier is not fit to power that much RR for long so it is more typical to see only 1-2 cap RR which is the equivalent of 1-2 sub-cap RR, or with triage 4-8 sub-cap RR.
Applying that logic to T3 BC only works if they were the ONLY dps of the fleet just as logi are the only RR of the fleet. Only then, it would be like saying that T3 BC aren't dps boats because ships killed by their dps are only killed for other ships but can continue to fire at T3 BCs.
ilammy wrote:Yes, BRAINS. Not simply 'MOAR DEE-PEE-ES' as you trying to make by allowing them to receive reps in triage. It is a viable tactic now, because it works on anything, but do you really want it to become the only possible one? Is that what you mean by 'plenty of ways'?
A pilot without brains can only think to answer a difficult problem with more dps. And it tends to eventually win out when the dps becomes sufficiently large. Those with brains know that SD works wonders, but triage must be changed to allow it. Neuts are amazing as always. There is always pyschological warfare as well, but that takes extra brains and begins to reveal too many of my cards. Those who have the brains are quite capable of seeing the winning moves. The rest simply need to follow those individuals.
ilammy wrote:Uh, great. Then please, give me your killmails in a carrier, or killmails of your carriers, or somebody who can confirm that you were in the battlefield in a carrier. Just to be sure that you are knowledgable of a combat side of the carriers that you're trying to change.
The best logistics pilots focus more on keeping the fleet alive than on getting on a km. If there were remote repair mails without fittings for all ships which did not die in each fleet battle, I would be on quite a few of those. The separation between logistics pilots and dps pilots is that effective dps pilots obsess about the kms while the effective logistics pilots could care less about them. I am an effective logistics pilot. |
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