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Delnas Sapphire	Posted - 2009.04.26 10:18:00 - [1] Diemos < Megathron Ishtar < Domi You also save 100m each time you decide to fly a BS instead, so tell me why i would bother training up HAC skills instead of BS skills as a gallente pilot? It just doesn't seem cost effective for a non 0.0 pvper to be flying around in a hac.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.04.26 10:30:00 - [2] Because they are faster, more agile and can actually hit other cruisers. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Mona X Caldari Polish Task Forces C0VEN	Posted - 2009.04.26 10:30:00 - [3] Originally by: Delnas Sapphire Diemos < Megathron Ishtar < Domi You also save 100m each time you decide to fly a BS instead, so tell me why i would bother training up HAC skills instead of BS skills as a gallente pilot? It just doesn't seem cost effective for a non 0.0 pvper to be flying around in a hac. Because battleships are slow like... they're slow. And they have crappy tracking, so, attacking smaller targets (like HACs) isn't very effective.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.04.26 10:35:00 - [4] Because battleships are for sissies, obviously. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Delnas Sapphire	Posted - 2009.04.26 10:37:00 - [5] Originally by: Furb Killer Because they are faster, more agile and can actually hit other cruisers. Funny i can kill cruisers just fine with 1 heavy neut
Constantine Arcanum IMPERIAL SENATE Initiative Associates	Posted - 2009.04.26 10:45:00 - [6] Originally by: Delnas Sapphire Originally by: Furb Killer Because they are faster, more agile and can actually hit other cruisers. Funny i can kill cruisers just fine with 1 heavy neut If it's not warped before you can lock it
Kazang Gallente Wrecking Shots	Posted - 2009.04.26 10:49:00 - [7] Agility, Lock time and the ability to control a fight. You are also forgetting the most important aspect, fun. An ishtar is infinity more fun to fly than a domi. Kazang
Hiroshima Jita	Posted - 2009.04.26 10:50:00 - [8] Edited by: Hiroshima Jita on 26/04/2009 10:52:07 Manueverability is somewhat important. That said the tanked bs is a staple for lowsec pirates. This generally involves humping a gate or a station. If you really cant judge the difference in combat effectiveness between hacs and battleships you need to go out and dies some more in combat against various interesting opponents. Bs have more tank and gank. Hacs have more speed and agility. They fullfill different roles in combat. And its harder to gank a hac because speed and agility >> tank and gank when the uber blob comes after you.
Delnas Sapphire	Posted - 2009.04.26 10:53:00 - [9] This may just be me being bitter because of how absolutely terrible the deimos is.
Darthewok Caldari	Posted - 2009.04.26 10:57:00 - [10] What the poster above said. In "final showdown" combat where both sides attack without retreat, battleships are better because of sheer gank and tank. In hit-and-run combat where you will attack only in a favorable situation and run if not in a favorable situation, HACs are better because battleships are too slow to run away.
Constantine Arcanum IMPERIAL SENATE Initiative Associates	Posted - 2009.04.26 10:57:00 - [11] Originally by: Delnas Sapphire This may just be me being bitter because of how absolutely terrible the deimos is. tru dat, fly a brutix.
Hiroshima Jita	Posted - 2009.04.26 11:02:00 - [12] Ah yeah. Deimos kind of fails as a hac because it must dive deep into web/scram range or fit crappy rails. But the ishtar is really nice, especially with sentry drones and sentry drone damage rigs.
Clueless Alt	Posted - 2009.04.26 11:03:00 - [13] Edited by: Clueless Alt on 26/04/2009 11:04:23 I'll never rat in a domi, but anyday in an ishtar. 2.1s align time is king for faction hunting.
Haalanii	Posted - 2009.04.26 11:10:00 - [14] Because roaming megas fall behind in hac/recon gangs :(
King Rothgar Death of Virtue	Posted - 2009.04.26 11:50:00 - [15] In a straight up fight, a BS will murder a HAC. It isn't even a fight as it's little more than an execution. In that sense the BS is vastly superior. The issue is ultimately mobility. If you need mobility, then t2 cruisers become very appealing. I don't use HACs but I do use recons sometimes. They lack the raw power of a BS or BC but they give much greater mobility which is sometimes more important than brute force.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.04.26 11:53:00 - [16] Originally by: Constantine Arcanum Originally by: Delnas Sapphire This may just be me being bitter because of how absolutely terrible the deimos is. tru dat, fly a brutix. …or a Lachesis. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Constantine Arcanum IMPERIAL SENATE Initiative Associates	Posted - 2009.04.26 12:18:00 - [17] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Constantine Arcanum Originally by: Delnas Sapphire This may just be me being bitter because of how absolutely terrible the deimos is. tru dat, fly a brutix. àor a Lachesis. double true
Sabutai Khan	Posted - 2009.04.26 12:20:00 - [18] This is what happens when you play too much EFT. Battleships are pretty sluggish, which gets you pretty much several shades of ****ed if you're camping a gate or ganking someone and local spikes with 20-30 reds. HACs give you the mobility to get out of situations where you might otherwise lose a battleship. Deimos is sort of bad but the Ishtar is awesome. Nevermind Vagabond, Cerb, Zealot, Sacriledge ect. Although, a better point to argue would be comparing HACs with BCs since they're more similar in terms of capabilities.
Beverly Sparks	Posted - 2009.04.26 14:05:00 - [19] Chicks dig guys that fly HACs. I thought that was obvious.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2009.04.26 18:13:00 - [20] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 26/04/2009 18:14:58 Originally by: Hiroshima Jita Ah yeah. Deimos kind of fails as a hac because it must dive deep into web/scram range or fit crappy rails. Now look at that falloff bonus. Deimos doesnt need to go into webrange at all if the situation doesnt favor it, coincidentially it has a bonus to MWD cap penalty which helps with staying out of webrange. So while the Brutix always has to go into the death-zone, the deimos doesnt if it doesnt want to.
Benedikt Miloslav	Posted - 2009.04.26 18:29:00 - [21] Deimos sucks because it's too expensive for a ship that is likely to die anyway. Ishtar lost much of its flavor after QR, and now it's hard to fit a decent tank that doesn't cut its mobility, due to the low armor. But a 375m3 drone bay, 125m3 bandwidth in a cruiser is just awesome. Cerberus has a niche role and is surpassed by the Drake in almost everything else, but in that role, it's just awesome. Same for the Eagle. Zealot is an incredible roaming gang boat - and for that, I would take it over a geddon any day. Sacrilege can get an almost command ship like active tank, while still being fast and agile. Muninn is also good in its niche role, but pretty much sucks otherwise. The Vagabond, on the other hand, is incredible. If you ever feel like flying a ship that costs less than 200 mil and can get you a 50:1 K:D ratio, buy a vagabond. As a lot of people say, it outganks what it can't outrun, and outruns what it can't outgank. As you can see, there are very few ships that can do what HACs can, and they definitely aren't battleships.
Alxea	Posted - 2009.04.26 21:49:00 - [22] Ishtar's I fly mostly over domi's cus. I have BS DPS, 75km drone range default, BS tank on a cruiser, is faster, more agile, is a T2 ship, faster lock time, same sized drone bay, bandwidth, just cus its a cruiser. It does all level 4 missions. Been using it for a year in missions. Got me 10.0 standing with the corp I do missions for and so far a faction standing of almost 8.0 being the highest. Makes me billions and its not a marauder. You know bigger isn't always better. >_^ People always seem to think that. Well its just not true. I have 2 ishtar's a armor tank for some things like sansha's and a shield tank for mostly everything else, anything that does exp,ken and therm this will tank between 1000 and 1500 DPS with just T2 depends on your skills. A all damage shield tank will be about 700 DPS with implants and maxed skills and such. I'm pretty close to that. Well it does what it was made to do. It heavily assaults stuff... Heavily!!! LOL I love those WTF passive ishtar's of mine. A year on the field in missions and never lost a one. These are solo afk mission boats btw. Its all about taste tho. T2 ships are a specialization. T1 ships are for Sub-Cap noobs or people who arn't rich. T2 gives you ablitties bigger T1 ships have only in a smaller package and in some cases vastly exceeds their abillities. If you know how to fit them and have the skill to pilot them well. This is why I hate BS's. They are too slow in every way. Warp, lock time, speed, agility, tracking speed. I am just a medium ship lover. I can do 600 DPS with the ishtar, and having a 1500 DPS tank on rats that do therm and ken, I couldn't ask for more with all it does and it may cost more then a BS. But its still cheap to me if I did ever lose it and worth the extra isk for how it performs. Only good thing about T1 is the insurance. Not much loss. But T2 you lose everything. Fair trade for its performance. Its a cruiser for crying out loud. Then theres command ships, they are way ahead of BS's imo for missions. Still all the above applies, more tank and higher DPS with no damage mods. Like for example my kill-dozer or gallente CS does 800 DPS maxed with no damage mods. I use blasters and damn it melts through BS's once in range between 10 and 20 secs they are gone. Depends on the bounty. But average 2000/3000 damage a volly is pretty sick for a BC when you overload just for kicks. The perfect strikes are funny. Like almost 4000 damage. Yeah thats higher then most battleships. Infact 800+ DPS is what most pvp ships do but this CS is tanked like no tomarrow. My pvp CS can do 1200 DPS. And my pvp deimos can do 967 DPS. Ganking torp ravens do 800/1000 DPS... megas and geddons are fitted about the same. But no tank or buffered with mostly damage mods. A BS can do 1400+ DPS with paper tanks sure. T2 is just better at doing stuff then T1 at those sizes. We are talking about BC's and crusiers doing pvp BS damage with medium guns. Where you can actoually hit a much larger ship base then just BS and maybe BC... HAC's can solo agenst a BS not just cus they are fast, and have the damage capable of taking down BS's. They can tank quite well if you put a tank on them. You can simply take down a 1400 DPS geddon cus your tinny and its hard for guns to track you. Yeah I did this to my CEO's geddon with a deimos in sparing but no I didn't use ecm drones and hes about 6mill SP above me. Hes got max gun skills too. Hes as tough as they get. And hes afraid of my deimos and ishtar kind of why I have the title queen of wtf fittings. But I'm catching up fast cus I have better att. >_^ This character is going on 2 years old of mine. I specialize in all medium sized gallente ships. And thats my opinion battleships are B.S. Unless its a neut boat. But that doesn't work on my passive fleet ishtar. MA hahahaha! Doesn't use cap. Don't need cap at a gate camp when you have tacklers.
Alxea	Posted - 2009.04.26 22:19:00 - [23] No, to all. You fit ECM drones to a deimos or fit it with a buffer and all DPS. Deimos's are flank crusiers. They are made to do the most gank DPS to melt things fast 1vs1 if you don't have a counter for ecm or are slow. Once it gets into range and holds you down you will melt really fast. Ones that don't use ecm will be more painful. But you can do damage to them sure. But only not very good deimos pilots will die to you if your not neuting them and they die they must be real noobs. Speed tanking a deimos is a nono. You put a 800mm or a 1600mm plate on that 3 mag stabs and whatever else and things will be in a world of pain. 110 mill isn't that much. It can do the same job a BS can do only in a smaller faster package. These are made for close combat engagements where you have stopped the enemy and your able to orbit them at 500m away. A BS is pretty much dead then. A single rep will work too if you want to use cap boosters and not a web. They are powerful ships if fitted right in the right hands of a pilot. Ishtar should tank period. You need to think outside the box with tanks. You can think WTF. But oh well you fail to have any creativity what so ever then. Shield tank it with a tackler friend hell you can fing snipe with senturies from 100+ miles away on a god damn gate. A team doesn't need webs and scrams, you can put a bubble and a tackler on a gate for you and you be all the DPS. They try to kill you but can't most of the time cus the tanks to good and they have a buffer gank tank thats going to fail. Even a orbiting ishtar with no speed will have seriously reduced damage on it when orbiting at 500m. You think its funny, yeah when its got 0 cap and its sheild isn't budging a inch your like wtf why won't it die. Your as surprised as hell when a 2 man gang blew up your BS then podded you. MMM medium T2 bubbles. But yeah that kind of gate camp is scarry to come across if your alone. Now think of a fleet of those on a gate with a HIC and tacklers. That is no joke for real. it is unpractical and crazy. But passive tanks are the best tanks in the game. There is nothing wrong with a passive ishtar. Only people can't open their eyes to being that opened minded to its uses. Its DD proof and neut proof for god sake. Originally by: Benedikt Miloslav Edited by: Benedikt Miloslav on 26/04/2009 18:37:45 Deimos sucks because it's too expensive for a ship that is likely to die anyway. Ishtar lost much of its flavor after QR, and now it's hard to fit a decent tank that doesn't cut its mobility, due to the low armor. But a 375m3 drone bay, 125m3 bandwidth in a cruiser is just awesome. Cerberus has a niche role and is surpassed by the Drake in almost everything else, but in that role, it's just awesome. Same for the Eagle. Zealot is an incredible roaming gang boat - and for that, I would take it over a geddon any day. Sacrilege can get an almost command ship like active tank, while still being fast and agile. Muninn is also good in its niche role, but pretty much sucks otherwise. The Vagabond, on the other hand, is incredible. If you ever feel like flying a ship that costs less than 200 mil and can get you a 50:1 K:D ratio, buy a vagabond. As a lot of people say, it outganks what it can't outrun, and outruns what it can't outgank. As you can see, there are very few ships that can do what HACs can, and they definitely aren't battleships. Originally by: Omara Otawan Edited by: Omara Otawan on 26/04/2009 18:14:58 Originally by: Hiroshima Jita Ah yeah. Deimos kind of fails as a hac because it must dive deep into web/scram range or fit crappy rails. Now look at that falloff bonus. Deimos doesnt need to go into webrange at all if the situation doesnt favor it, coincidentially it has a bonus to MWD cap penalty which helps with staying out of webrange. So while the Brutix always has to go into the death-zone, the deimos doesnt if it doesnt want to.
Casino Alkasar	Posted - 2009.04.26 22:45:00 - [24] Wow Alexa going all out ya can have my babies So in short i would say: If you fly somwehere to duke it out => bring a insured BS If ya gonna be roaming hit and run => bring ya hac/hictor/recon If ya new to pvp bring a t1 cruiser/frig youll sure will lose some _________________ itze mine Rock¦n roll
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2009.04.26 23:56:00 - [25] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 26/04/2009 23:58:29 Originally by: Benedikt Miloslav The Deimos does have that versatility, but at 16km (anything below and an overloaded web will catch you), much of its DPS is lost, it's still paper thin and doesn't have the speed of a Vagabond that will do similar DPS at that range. Also unlike the Vagabond, it can't sit at 22km to stay out of range of battleships and still do decent DPS, and with a crappy speed of 250m/s, you're forced to run your MWD all the time, greatly increasing incoming damage. And the lack of a scrambler will make it completely useless against other HACs, which can outrun it and deal more DPS at that kind of range. Not true, it can stay at 25km (outside heavy neut range) while still doing the same damage as a vagabond, and both will have the same amount of EHP. If it goes closer it outdamages the vagabond by a large margin. Not to mention lower total speed isnt necessarily worse for keeping something at range, remember you also have to keep a point on the target and it is very easy to overshoot in the vagabond due to its speed. MWD cap penalty bonus will help it maintaining range better than a vagabond too. If you put both against each other in a 1vs1, only 2 things should happen given equally skilled pilots: 1) vagabond leaves 2) vagabond dies
Benedikt Miloslav	Posted - 2009.04.27 00:20:00 - [26] It doesn't matter if you can run the MWD for 4 minutes instead of 2, going at 3km/s when you do instead of 1.5km/s is far better, as you're a very vulnerable target while it's activated. And the 'overshoot' thing shouldn't even be mentioned since QR, unless you're a terrible pilot. The standard Deimos setup with neutrons and 2 MFS will do 65 gun DPS at 25km. If you go for even less tank and get a third MFS, it'll be 73 DPS. In comparison, the standard Vagabond setup with 220mms and 3 gyros will do 263 DPS. The only thing that makes the Deimos do similar DPS are hammerheads, but even if you don't consider the fact that a MWDing vaga is faster than them, the Vagabond's small drones will pop them without any trouble. Even at 18km and with 3 MFS, the Deimos will do 230 DPS, while the Vagabond will do 326. The only advantage the Deimos has is the higher EHP (if you have similar EHP compared to a vaga you're doing something terribly wrong), but that doesn't stop a Vagabond from completely destroying a Deimos. Are you sure we are playing the same game? By the way, the MWD cap usage bonus is a joke.
Lexandrius Megens	Posted - 2009.04.29 10:13:00 - [27] Originally by: Furb Killer Because they are faster, more agile and can actually hit other cruisers. That is the reason i only use command ships nowadays instead of battleships. They have the same medium gunz like a HAC, so they hit anything smaller then a battleship without problems like the HAC. On top of that command ships have such a freakin nice tank and do even more DMG then a HAC does. The only "problem" might be the costs of a command ship. Signed, Lexandrius --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.04.29 11:21:00 - [28] Originally by: Furb Killer Because they are faster, more agile and can actually hit other cruisers.
Sonreir Gallente Band of Builders Inc. Libera Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.29 11:36:00 - [29] Because I can afford to.
odst Captain15	Posted - 2009.04.29 14:24:00 - [30] Originally by: Hiroshima Jita Ah yeah. Deimos kind of fails as a hac because it must dive deep into web/scram range or fit crappy rails. But the ishtar is really nice, especially with sentry drones and sentry drone damage rigs. so i guess im the only one here who has had success with the deimos?
Benedikt Miloslav	Posted - 2009.04.29 15:30:00 - [31] Edited by: Benedikt Miloslav on 29/04/2009 15:30:33 Originally by: odst Captain15 Originally by: Hiroshima Jita Ah yeah. Deimos kind of fails as a hac because it must dive deep into web/scram range or fit crappy rails. But the ishtar is really nice, especially with sentry drones and sentry drone damage rigs. so i guess im the only one here who has had success with the deimos? Success? Of course not. Deimos is still an upgrade to an already very good cruiser, but it's too expensive for what it's meant to do. That doesn't mean it's not good. As stated, the Deimos fails as a HAC. It doesn't fail as a ship.
Jaina Proudmoar Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.04.29 16:08:00 - [32] Try fitting the Deimos for what it's meant to do - a long range HAC for HAC/Recon gangs in 0.0 (PROTIP: fitting a rack of neutrons and flying it like a glass cannon is moronic)
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.04.29 16:10:00 - [33] Originally by: Jaina Proudmoar Try fitting the Deimos for what it's meant to do - a long range HAC for HAC/Recon gangs in 0.0 (PROTIP: fitting a rack of neutrons and flying it like a glass cannon is moronic) Hmm, a sort of hybrid zealot, but with a drone bay... you got a fit?
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2009.04.29 16:43:00 - [34] Edited by: Esmenet on 29/04/2009 16:44:05 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Jaina Proudmoar Try fitting the Deimos for what it's meant to do - a long range HAC for HAC/Recon gangs in 0.0 (PROTIP: fitting a rack of neutrons and flying it like a glass cannon is moronic) Hmm, a sort of hybrid zealot, but with a drone bay... you got a fit? [Deimos, Sniper] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Reactor Control Unit II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Sensor Booster II, Targeting range Large Shield Extender II 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M [empty high slot] Hybrid Locus Coordinator I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Something like that. Its like a zealot with less ehp, less dps and less range but with a drone bay. And yea this is my sig. Real PVP'ers only use f1.
Benedikt Miloslav	Posted - 2009.04.29 19:14:00 - [35] Originally by: Jaina Proudmoar Try fitting the Deimos for what it's meant to do - a long range HAC for HAC/Recon gangs in 0.0 (PROTIP: fitting a rack of neutrons and flying it like a glass cannon is moronic) Protip: Fitting weapons that rely on optimal for their range (rails) and making a lolfit in a ship that has a falloff and MWD bonus is moronic. Are you sure neglecting two of its bonuses is the Deimos' role? P.S.: Eagle, Cerberus, Zealot and Muninn can all do this role better than the Deimos. And if you want more DPS, a sentry Ishtar is viable too.
Salomorin Gallente Phantasmal Collective Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.29 19:14:00 - [36] Edited by: Salomorin on 29/04/2009 19:15:29 Higher resists, and as others have said, better tracking, harder for BS to hit you if your in a hac. For PVE I use a BS, for PvP, I use a Hac.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.04.29 19:25:00 - [37] Originally by: Jaina Proudmoar Try fitting the Deimos for what it's meant to do - a long range HAC for HAC/Recon gangs in 0.0 (PROTIP: fitting a rack of neutrons and flying it like a glass cannon is moronic) PROTIP: Being a sniper hac might be the most usefull role right now for the deimos, it isnt what it is meant to do. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
lecrotta Minmatar lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.04.29 19:33:00 - [38] Originally by: Furb Killer Originally by: Jaina Proudmoar Try fitting the Deimos for what it's meant to do - a long range HAC for HAC/Recon gangs in 0.0 (PROTIP: fitting a rack of neutrons and flying it like a glass cannon is moronic) PROTIP: Being a sniper hac might be the most usefull role right now for the deimos, it isnt what it is meant to do. Hull: Thorax Class Role: Heavy Assault Ship Sharing more tactical elements with smaller vessels than with its size-class counterparts, the Deimos represents the final word in up-close-and-personal cruiser combat. FLY this one, and swift death is your only guarantee. Developer: Duvolle Labs Rumor has it Duvolle was contracted by parties unknown (proly gourmindong to sideways buff amaar) to create the ultimate close-range blaster cruiser. In this their engineers and designers FAILED MISERABLY but the identity of the company's client remains to be discovered (i still say it was gourmie).
Arbax Redne	Posted - 2009.04.29 20:58:00 - [39] hacs can choose their engagement and move faster.
Panzram GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.04.30 01:18:00 - [40] because you're awesome and everyone needs to know you're awesome cruising around the battleships getting solo KMs on frigs/intis/cruisers. also you can run away much better when you get targeted by a pulse apoc. its like riding a motorcycle on to a battlefield full of tanks, total bad*ss. you and your hac rock oooyeah!
odst Captain15	Posted - 2009.04.30 01:28:00 - [41] i guess me and my freinds are lucky then, we fly in a 3 deimos group and we havent died once against equal numbers. ya its a little expensive but if you got the money to spare its hella fun to fly.
Alxea	Posted - 2009.04.30 10:46:00 - [42] Edited by: Alxea on 30/04/2009 10:50:06 Originally by: lecrotta Originally by: Furb Killer Originally by: Jaina Proudmoar Try fitting the Deimos for what it's meant to do - a long range HAC for HAC/Recon gangs in 0.0 (PROTIP: fitting a rack of neutrons and flying it like a glass cannon is moronic) PROTIP: Being a sniper hac might be the most usefull role right now for the deimos, it isnt what it is meant to do. Hull: Thorax Class Role: Heavy Assault Ship Sharing more tactical elements with smaller vessels than with its size-class counterparts, the Deimos represents the final word in up-close-and-personal cruiser combat. FLY this one, and swift death is your only guarantee. Developer: Duvolle Labs Rumor has it Duvolle was contracted by parties unknown (proly gourmindong to sideways buff amaar) to create the ultimate close-range blaster cruiser. In this their engineers and designers FAILED MISERABLY but the identity of the company's client remains to be discovered (i still say it was gourmie). You EPICALLY FAIL for 2 reasons. 1.You have no skills to fly a deimos correctly at all. 2.You can't fit a ship worth crap. I have nearly maxed skills for this boat. I will tell you it is a great boat to pvp in if you have the skills. If you don't, then talk to the 967DPS of this gunship, if this gets into point blank of you, you melt fast, just hope it doesn't and your faster then it. It is a flank DPS gank ship. Doesn't need much. Tank is pretty useless in a fleet. If you get primed you die no matter how much tank you have. Solo if you ecm drone this boat you will kill alot of things very quickly. It is very hard to hit too for BS's even if its not useing ecm drones. It does BS DPS in a crusier package. If you can't kill something with it. Your doing something wrong. Every boat that uses cap is weak to neuts. If your dieing from neuts thats understandable. So use ecm drones or cap boosters to counter it. Don't hate on a ship cus you can't fly it very well. Some of us actually can... And a rail deimos is a NO NO... Know its role and shut your mouth.
lecrotta Minmatar lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.04.30 11:17:00 - [43] Originally by: Alxea 1.You have no skills to fly a deimos correctly at all. The skills to fly a diemost are pretty basic, lock target, hope you can burn into range and hit with enough DPS to kill the target before you die. Originally by: Alxea 2.You can't fit a ship worth crap. If you are refering to putting rails on it i agree, but then looking at your kills ans loosses its quite clear that you fly other med class blaster ships like CS, BC and even the ishtar more than you do the diemost.
Wardeneo Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.05.01 19:43:00 - [44] Originally by: Furb Killer Because they are faster, more agile and can actually hit other cruisers. this to some extent, istar over domi, domi is good but ishtar does the same dps (drones) but ur more agile and faster allthough domi has better tank imo id have a mega over a diemos as there rubbish unless there used for boosting dps for a fast moving cruiser fleet, and if ur using them for this then they rock, i <3 800dps from a cruiser... wardeneo
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2009.05.01 20:30:00 - [45] Simple answer: you dont lose a HAC as often as you lose a BS. Mobility is an advantage in the current metagame. While you cant insure the hull properly, a t2 fit for the HAC will still be cheaper than a t2 BS fit, so after about 3 BS losses you lost as much isk as with a HAC loss. Once the inevitable cyno lights on the bait ship, a HAC has a much better chance to escape.

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